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CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION THURSDAY, MAY 8TH, 2025 IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER, CITY HALL, BAYTOWN, TEXAS 7 7 5 2 OH.AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF QUORUM AT 4:05 PM WE'RE GONNA START WITH CITIZEN COMMENT.
DO WE HAVE ANYONE DESIRING TO SPEAK? NOTHING.
WELL, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON THERE BEING NO ONE DESIRING TO SPEAK.
THIS CONCLUDES CI CITIZEN COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA.
[a. Review and discuss an updated draft of the ethics ordinance including the complaint process and creation of an Ethics Board.]
ON TO DISCUSSIONS TWO A REVIEW AND DISCUSS AN UPDATED DRAFT OF THE ETHICS ORDINANCE, INCLUDING THE COMPLAINT PROCESS, AND CREATION OF AN ETHICS BOARD, MS. FLYNN.UH, HAPPY TO BE BACK AGAIN TO CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSION ON THE ETHICS ORDINANCE.
AND SO I'M GONNA JUST KIND OF QUICKLY RUN THROUGH KIND OF THE AREAS WE COVERED LAST TIME, JUST SO WE CAN ALL GET OUR HEAD BACK IN THE GAME WHEN WE PICK UP WITH THE NEXT SEC SECTION.
SO, AGAIN, JUST KIND OF REMINDING YOU OF THE TIMELINE, WE STARTED BACK ON APRIL 10TH WITH AN OVERVIEW SPENT, UM, A NICE LONG DISCUSSION LAST WEEK COVERING A LOT OF DIFFERENT ISSUES WITH THE CODE OF ETHICS.
WE'LL BE PICKING BACK UP THERE AND THEN TONIGHT GETTING TO THE ETHICS BOARD.
AND THEN, UH, WE LOOK TO BRING BACK THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE ON JUNE THE 12TH.
SO THIS IS OF COURSE, SLIGHTLY MOD MODIFIED FROM WHEN WE STARTED, BUT WE'VE HAD A LOT OF GOOD DISCUSSION MAKING SURE WE GET, UH, THE ORDINANCE RIGHT.
SO, UM, WE'VE ADJUSTED OUR TIMELINE.
SO WE STARTED OFF WITH OUR GENERAL SECTION TALKING ABOUT, UH, THOSE ASPIRATIONAL, UH, IDEALS THAT ARE NOT BASIS FOR COMPLAINTS.
TALKED ABOUT WHO WAS INCLUDED AND COVERED UNDER THIS ORDINANCE.
THEN WE DISCUSSED THOSE STANDARDS OF CONDUCT, UM, AND, AND WHAT WAS COVERED UNDER THIS ORDINANCE AND WHAT PEOPLE COULD, UM, POTENTIALLY BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR IF THERE WERE, UH, THOUGHT TO BE ALLEGED VIOLATIONS.
I ALSO TALKED ABOUT THAT ADDITION OF THE REGULATIONS FOR FORMER CITY OFFICIALS.
AND THEN WE BEGIN TO WALK THROUGH THE, UH, REPORTING PROCEDURES IF THERE WAS AN ALLEGED ETHICS VIOLATION, UM, TALKING ABOUT THE FORM AND GOING TO THE CITY CLERK AND THAT INITIAL ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW BY THE CITY CLERK.
THEN WE TALKED ABOUT THAT PRELIMINARY MEETING WHERE THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE ETHICS BOARD TO REVIEW, DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE JURISDICTION OVER IT, AS WELL AS DISMISS THE COMPLAINT FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, UM, OR SET IT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A HEARING.
THEN WE MOVED INTO THE DETERMINATION HEARING, UM, AND TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, THE PORTION WE DIDN'T REALLY GET INTO.
UM, AND IT'S KIND OF THAT AREA WHERE THESE ARE MORE OF THOSE KIND OF, UH, I'M GONNA CALL 'EM THE LEGALISTIC PIECES, WHERE IT JUST GIVES AN OVERVIEW OF, UH, HOW EXHIBITS CAN COME FORWARD, THAT WITNESS LISTS CAN BE USED.
UM, THERE CAN BE A REBUTTAL, THERE'S A PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE.
THOSE THINGS ARE ALSO COVERED IN MORE DETAIL IN THE RULES OF PROCEDURE THAT WOULD BE SET UP BY THE ETHICS BOARD.
SO, SO WE ARE GOING TO JUMP INTO, UH, KIND OF THAT, ONE OF THOSE FINAL PIECES OF THE PROCESS.
AND THAT IS ONCE THE ETHICS BOARD HAS, UM, HAD THE HEARING AND THEY END UP WITH A DECISION.
AND SO IT'S, WHAT THEY WOULD DO IS THEY WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL, AND SO THEY COULD, UH, RECOMMEND ANY ONE OF THESE THINGS.
THEY COULD AT THAT POINT ALSO STILL RECOMMEND DISMISSAL OF THE COMPLAINT.
THEY COULD, UH, ASK FOR, UH, COUNSEL TO ISSUE A LETTER OF NOTIFICATION, A LETTER LETTER OF ADMONITION.
THEY COULD REF RECOMMEND REFERRING TO ETHICS TRAINING.
THEY COULD ALSO RECOMMEND LETTER OF REPRIMAND OR OF CENSURE.
THEY COULD ALSO RECOMMEND SUSPENSION OR REMOVAL, UM, OR SIMPLY REFER IT TO ANOTHER AGENCY IF IT WERE APPROPRIATE TO DO SO.
SO DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT, UH, ANY OF THOSE ITEMS? WHAT THEY CAN DO? OKAY.
ONCE, UM, ONCE THEY MAKE THAT DECISION, THEY'LL ISSUE THE REPORT TO COUNCIL.
AT THAT TIME, IT IS STILL, UM, COUNCIL'S TO TAKE ACTUAL ACTION ON.
SO THE COMMITTEE, AGAIN, IS ONLY MAKE A RE RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL.
COUNSEL CAN THEN TAKE THEIR OWN ACTIONS, SO THEY MAY FOLLOW THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE COUNCIL, OF THE COMMITTEE.
THEY CAN TAKE AN ALTERNATE ACTION
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OR THEY CAN TAKE NO ACTION.UM, AND THEN THERE IS ALSO A PROVISION, UM, TO PROVIDE NOTICE BACK TO THE PARTIES IF IT IS A COMPLAINT AND ACTIONS ARE TAKEN, AND IT'S EITHER THE CITY MANAGER OR THE JUDGE, UM, THOSE THINGS WOULD BE DOCUMENTED IN THEIR PERSONNEL RECORDS.
AND THEN, UM, THE LAST ONE IS THE PENALTY SECTION.
THAT REFERS BACK TO IF THERE WERE, IF IT WAS SOMETHING THAT SURROUNDED, IF THE ALLEGATION AND, AND THE, UM, DECISION IS BASED AROUND LIKE A CONTRACT ISSUE OR SOMETHING WHERE THERE THEN BECOMES AN ISSUE WITH, UM, THE CONTRACT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT PROVIDES THAT THOSE, THOSE CONTRACTS CAN BECOME VOID IF THEY DIDN'T ALREADY OTHERWISE BECOME VOID UNDER LAW.
SO, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT ANY OF THOSE SECTIONS? NO.
WE MADE IT THROUGH A LOT OF THE HARD STUFF LAST TIME.
UM, AND THEN THE LAST SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE, IT JUST PROVIDES THAT WE WILL MAKE SURE ALL NEW CITY OFFICIALS ARE AWARE OF THE CODE OF ETHICS, AND OUR CITY ATTORNEY AND HIS TEAM WILL PROVIDE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS. UM, I WILL TELL YOU, OBVIOUSLY, ONCE WE GET THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND HAVE A NEW, UH, ETHICS ORDINANCE, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE THAT IT APPLIES TO RECEIVES A COPY, RECEIVES THE APPROPRIATE TRAINING.
WE WON'T WAIT UNTIL JUST NEW PEOPLE COME ALONG.
WE'LL MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WHO'S EXISTING AND GETS AWARENESS OF THE NEW, UH, ORDINANCE.
ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THAT? NOPE.
MOVING ON TO, UM, THE ETHICS BOARD.
SO THIS IS ESTABLISHING, UM, THE BOARD UNDER OUR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS SECTION IN OUR ADMINISTRATION CHAPTER.
SO THE FIRST SECTION, UM, AND I PROVIDED ALL OF Y'ALL A, A COPY.
SO THE FIRST SECTION GRANTS, UM, THE IDEA THAT IT CAN BE CREATED, IT'S CREATED BY THE CITY COUNCIL.
THE CITY OF COUNCIL IS THE ONE WHO APPOINTS THE, UH, INDIVIDUALS TO THE BOARD BY MAJORITY.
AND THEN, UM, WE MOVE INTO THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS.
SO ON THE PAST BOARD, THERE WERE FIVE MEMBERS, UM, READING THROUGH, UH, SOME OF THE OTHER ORDINANCES, SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FOR ALTERNATES.
OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS OPEN, THIS IS Y'ALL'S DECISION IF YOU WANT TO KEEP IT AT AT FIVE, IF YOU WANT A NEW NUMBER, IF YOU WANT ALTERNATES, UM, THAT SORT OF THING.
UM, DO Y'ALL WANNA PAUSE AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION OR, YES.
I HAVE A QUESTION ON, ON THE CREATION.
UM, IT SAYS, UM, THE ADVISORY BOARD SHALL ASSIST AND ADVISE THE CITY COUNCIL AND OR THE CITY MANAGER.
I THOUGHT IN OUR DISCUSSIONS, WE'D MOVE, WE REMOVED CITY EMPLOYEES.
SO WHY WOULD THE ETHICS COMMISSION NEED TO CONSULT WITH THE CITY MANAGER? THAT'S TRUE.
I I DID NOT GO BACK AND UPDATE THAT.
THIS IS STILL FROM THE WHOLE ORIGINAL, SO WHEN Y'ALL TOOK THAT OUT, I DID NOT GO BACK AND UPDATE THIS PIECE.
I JUST, I JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN LENGTH.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING ALTERNATES, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UM, ALL DISTRICTS REPRESENTED FULLY WITH TWO ALTERNATES, JUST IN CASE.
MAYBE THERE'S A COUNCILMAN FROM THAT DISTRICT, UM, WHO'S HAS AN ETHICS COMPLAINT.
MAYBE THAT ALTERNATE COULD FILL IN FOR THAT SPECIFIC DISTRICT TO PRESENT, PREVENTING ANY KIND OF BIASES.
UM, I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM MY COLLEAGUES ON THAT, BUT I THINK PERHAPS, UM, SEVEN MEMBERS WITH TWO ALTERNATES.
DID, DID WE ALREADY MAKE A DISCUSSION ABOUT EACH PERSON PICKING ONE FROM THEIR DISTRICT? OH, WE HAVE IT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE LIKE, DISTRICT SPECIFIC, UH, WITH THE MAYOR, OF COURSE, GETTING AT LARGE.
SO, UM, I, I THINK IN THE PAST, IT, IT WAS FIVE BECAUSE IT WAS MAINLY CLERGY.
AND SO WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT MANY CLERGY BACK THEN AS WE DO NOW.
UM, AND SO, UM, RIGHT NOW I'M INDIFFERENT.
I MEAN, IT COULD BE, SOME OF US GET TO CHOOSE THE REGULAR MEMBERS, AND SOME OF US GET TO CHOOSE THE ALTERNATES, AND THAT MAKES IT THE SEVEN.
UM, BUT, UH, I'M O I'M OKAY KEEPING IT THIS WAY WITH THE,
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WITH THE FIVE AND THEN THE TWO ALTERNATES, BUT I'M OPEN TO DOING ONE PER COUNCIL IF THAT'S WHAT THE MAJORITY WANT.UM, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, AND I KNOW WE HAVEN'T MADE DECISIONS ON THIS YET, WE'RE OBVIOUSLY GONNA MOVE AWAY, I'M ASSUMING FROM FIVE CLERGY.
UH, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ARE ON THAT, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK INDIFFERENCE IS A GOOD WORD.
I, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT NEEDS TO BE DISTRICT SPECIFIC, ALTHOUGH I SUPPORT THAT ON OTHER, OTHER BOARDS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, THE INELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS WHERE THEY, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT WILL PREVENT THEM FROM SERVING.
UM, AND THEN BECAUSE WE WANT TO HAVE THIS BOARD ESTABLISHED FAIRLY QUICKLY, MY ONLY RESERVATIONS IS, IS EACH DISTRICT GONNA HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE ELIGIBLE? AND WE HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING PEOPLE FOR COMMITTEES NOW.
AND WITH IT BEING AN ETHICS BOARD, I DON'T KNOW THAT MAKING IT DISTRICT SPECIFIC WOULD BE TO OUR ADVANTAGE.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF IT BEING A ODD NUMBER.
I THINK FIVE IS A PERFECT NUMBER FOR THAT.
AND PEOPLE SUBMIT APPLICATIONS AND THEN WE COLLECTIVELY GO OVER THEM AND DECIDE ON WHO THOSE FIVE WOULD BE.
UM, I DO AGREE WITH, WE, WHEN WE START LOOKING AT THE NINE THINGS THAT WOULD PROHIBIT SOMEONE, WE MAY NOT GET ENOUGH QUALIFIED PEOPLE IN ORDER TO GET THE, THE BOARD STARTED.
AND WE DO SAY, WE DID SAY WE WANT TO DO THIS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
I'M SORRY, MAYOR, I, I ACTUALLY WASN'T DONE.
BUT I, I KNOW MR. POWELL ALSO I THINK WANTS TO SPEAK, BUT I, ALL I WAS GONNA SAY IN, IN FINALIZATION OF MY THOUGHT PROCESS WITH THIS IS WE MIGHT WANT TO EXPLORE, UM, WHAT WE'VE DONE IN OTHER, ON OTHER BOARDS WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE ONE CLERGY MEMBER, MAYBE ONE I, I, I DON'T KNOW.
I'D LIKE TO EXPLORE IT WITH, WITH THE WHOLE COUNCIL WHAT IT SHOULD BE MADE OUT OF.
I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY GRAND IDEAS JUST YET.
JUST NOT SURE THAT IT SHOULD BE DISTRICT SPECIFIC.
THAT WAS THE END OF WHAT I WANTED TO SAY.
WELL, WELL, IF THE IDEA IS, I'M SORRY, COUNCILMAN F UH, MY ONLY THOUGHT IS I, I LIKE THE FIVE.
UM, I, I THINK IN THIS CASE, SMALLER IS BETTER JUST BECAUSE I THINK WE'LL HAVE CHALLENGES IN FINDING ENOUGH PEOPLE.
UM, AND SO I, I AGREE WITH THE FIVE COUNCILMAN GRIFFITH.
SO TO YOUR POINT, IF WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THIS COUNCIL FILLED, THIS COMMITTEE FILLED, THEN I DON'T THINK IT'LL BE A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE, UM, ANY KIND OF SPECIFIC STIPULATION.
IF, IF THAT'S, AND I GET THAT.
I, SO I MAY BE AT LARGE AND THEN WITH THE FIVE, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THIS AFRICAN FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH.
UM, MIKE, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING SINCE I'VE ALREADY MADE A COMMENT? GO AHEAD.
UM, IF WE WANT A CLERGY, THEN THAT COULD BE ONE OF OUR APPOINTMENTS IF THEY APPLY MM-HMM
UM, AND WE CAN TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.
BUT I AGREE, BECAUSE EVEN ON SOME OF THE COMMITTEES WE'RE, UH, WE'RE HAVING DIFFICULTIES IN MAKING QUORUM AND, AND IT'S BLOCKING FROM THE PROCESS MOVING FORWARD.
UM, AND SO I, I, I LIKE IT AT FIVE WITH TWO ALTERNATES, UM, KEEPING THEM AT LARGE, LIKE THE IDEA OF JUST US AS A CONSENSUS, MAKING THE DECISION ON WHO WE WILL BE SELECTING.
I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE TWO ALTERNATIVES.
I MEAN, FIVE FOLKS, THIS IS A PRETTY IMPORTANT COMMITTEE.
ANYBODY THAT WE NOMINATE THAT HAS ACCEPTED THE CHALLENGE, THEY'RE GONNA MAKE SURE THEY'RE THERE.
UM, AND AGAIN, REGARDLESS OF UN, UNLESS REALLY UNFORESEEN CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT I, I WOULD IMAGINE THE FIVE INDIVIDUALS THAT WE WOULD APPROVE TO BE ON THIS COMMITTEE WOULD MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO BE AT ANY AND ALL MEETINGS.
'CAUSE THEY KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF IT.
SO, SO I'M GOOD WITH FIVE AT LARGE.
WE WOULD JUST MAKE NOMINATIONS AS A, AS A BOARD AND VOTE ON IT AS A BOARD TILL WE GET TO FIVE.
BUT YEAH, I, I, I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE THAT WE GET TOO MANY ON THERE.
IT, IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO FILL REGULAR COMMITTEES.
UM, THIS IS GONNA BE A PRETTY HOT COMMITTEE.
UH, HOPEFULLY WILL BE NOT BE USED OR SELDOM USED, BUT WHEN IT IS, TH THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF PRESSURE ALL AROUND.
SO THE FOLKS THAT WE PUT ON THIS COMMITTEE ARE GONNA HAVE TO BE PRETTY STALWORTH INDIVIDUALS.
UH, 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA TAKE PRESSURE FROM ALL
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SIDES.AND ULTIMATELY, AND, AND I'VE GONE STRUGGLED BACK AND FORTH WITH THIS MYSELF.
ULTIMATELY, IT'S GONNA COME BACK TO US.
UM, I'VE HEARD COMMENTS, WELL, THE CITIZENS DESERVE TO HAVE THE CITIZENS COMMITTEE TO MAKE DECISIONS, THIS AND THAT AND THIS KIND.
AND, AND WE WERE ELECTED BY ALL 85,000 PARTICIPANTS, IF YOU WILL, IN THIS CITY.
SO THOSE CONSTITUENTS EXPECT US TO MAKE THESE TYPE DECISIONS.
ULTIMATELY, THIS IS GONNA COME TO US.
CREATING COMMITTEE JUST KIND OF FILTERS SOME OF IT.
I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH IT, BUT I ALSO DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH MAKING DECISIONS ON THIS AS WELL.
'CAUSE THAT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY AT THE END OF THE DAY.
I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT ALTERNATES.
AGAIN, WHOEVER WE PUT ON THIS COMMITTEE, THEY'RE GOING TO STAND UP AND BE AT, THEY'RE GONNA MOVE MOUNTAINS TO BE AT THOSE MEETINGS.
AND MAYOR, IF I MIGHT, IF I MIGHT ADD, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'RE DOING THIS IN A WHILE.
IT, IT'S BEEN YEARS SINCE WE'VE HAD ONE.
WE MAY NOT GET EVERYTHING RIGHT.
UM, BUT THERE'S A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY AT SOME POINT.
UH, 'CAUSE I, I KNOW A LOT OF CITIES WHO, UH, HAVE EXISTING ONES AND HAVE HAD 'EM FOR A LONG TIME ARE NOT GOING BACK AND DOING AMENDMENTS.
UM, SO THAT WINDOW IS OPEN SHOULD, YOU KNOW, UH, YES, WE WANNA GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, BUT WE MAY NOT.
UM, AND WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL WHATEVER DAY COMES THAT IT NEEDS TO PUT BE PUT INTO ACTION.
UM, CAROL, THIS, THIS WAS DIRECTED AT YOU.
SO IT SAYS THAT THERE, THE THREE SERVED TWO YOUR TERMS, AND YOU SAID THIS WAS PULLED OFF OF THE PREVIOUS EXISTING CONDITIONS.
UM, THE ETHICS BOARD THAT WE LOOKED AT, UH, CAROL, UH, LAURA AND I MM-HMM
IT WAS THE SAME PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN ON THERE FOR 20 YEARS.
SO I THINK ON THE ORIGINAL ONE, BECAUSE IT WAS THE MINISTERIAL ALLIANCE WHEN IT, UM, WHEN THEY FIRST APPOINTED, UM, I THINK THEY SET IT UP BECAUSE THREE OF 'EM WOULD SERVE TWO YEARS, AND TWO WOULD SERVE THE THREE YEARS.
BUT THEN I THINK IT WAS LIKE SOME OF OUR OTHER BOARDS, THEN THOSE INDIVIDUALS CARRIED, JUST KIND OF CARRIED OVER.
BECAUSE THAT AN OVERSIGHT THEY HAD.
BUT, UM, THIS ONE DOES PLACE A LIMIT ON HOW MANY TIMES THEY CAN SERVE, WHICH AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE, WHEN WE GET TO THE TERMS, Y'ALL CAN ALSO TALK ABOUT THAT.
SO, TO CLARIFY THOUGH, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING NEW.
YOU'RE SAYING THIS CAME OFF OF THE OLD ORDINANCE, THAT THE INITIAL LANG, THE INITIAL FIVE MEMBERS APPOINTED.
UM, I'M TALKING MORE ABOUT THE SERVING.
WHAT, WHAT I WANTED CLARIFIED IS, IS DID WE HAVE IT ESTABLISHED IN THE PAST FOR THE ETHICS COMMITTEE, THAT THREE SERVE TWO YEAR TERMS AND TWO SERVE THREE YEAR TERMS, SUBSEQUENT TERMS, THREE YEARS.
AND IT SAYS, NO MEMBER SHALL SERVE MORE THAN FIVE CONSECUTIVE YEARS, OR BE APPOINTED FOR MORE THAN FULL TWO FULL TERMS. I'M ASKING IF THAT'S HOW THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY.
THE NUMBER ONE WAS PREVIOUS, THE NUMBER FOUR WHERE IT SAYS IT'S LIMITED TO THE FIVE YEARS OR THE TWO FULL TERMS. THAT IS NEW.
WHERE, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR NUMBER? THE, THE BULLET.
SO NO MEMBERS SHALL SERVE MORE THAN FIVE CAN SAY THAT THAT'S SOMETHING NEW.
THAT'S NEW, RIGHT? THIS NUMBER IN THE DRAFT ITSELF.
I THANK, I WAS LIKE, WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS? I'M SORRY.
I SKIMMED OVER AND I WAS LIKE, WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS? THANK YOU.
I WAS LIKE, YOU'RE NUMBERING THE BULLETS.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE, UM, I WAS LIKE, ARE WE COUNTING FROM THE TOP? BUT WHERE ARE WE COUNTING FROM? OH, LORD, YOU COUNTING ON THE SCREEN? YEAH.
I, I SKIMMED THIS FIRST LOOKING FOR NUMBERS AND ONLY SAW LETTERS TO, YOU KNOW, AND THEN I WAS LIKE, WHERE'S SHE COMING FROM? OKAY.
SO WHERE DID WE COME UP WITH THE TWO FULL TURN, THE, THE LAST BULLET POINT AND THE NUMBER FOUR ON THIS DOCUMENT?
SO IS THAT JUST SOMETHING Y'ALL CAME UP WITH OR, YEAH.
SO THIS IS ALL, YOU KNOW, I, WHEN WE SAID, OKAY, LET'S BRING SOMETHING BACK.
THEN I JUST KIND OF WENT AND DID A LOT OF RESEARCH WITH OTHER CITIES AND DIFFERENT ELEMENTS THAT I SAW THAT WERE DIFFERENT.
I KIND OF BROUGHT THOSE IN TO, FOR Y'ALL TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, OH, OKAY, IF WE'RE DOING THIS AT DIFFERENT, LET'S SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DID.
SO THIS WAS KIND OF MY WAY TO BRING A, A WHOLE PILE OF STUFF.
YOU KNOW, TO SOME POINTS THAT WERE DIFFERENT THAT I THOUGHT, OKAY, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING Y'ALL WANNA TALK ABOUT.
BECAUSE WE'VE TALKED WITH SOME OF THE OTHER BOARDS OF, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE WE'RE ROTATING PEOPLE OFF.
AND THEN, SO THAT'S WHY THAT ONE WAS ADDED IN.
AND I'M NOT GONNA BE THIS, SHE'S
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WITH IT.WAS WONDERING WHERE IT CAME FROM.
THANK YOU FOR GOING ON THAT ROLLERCOASTER WITH ME.
SO LET ME CIRCLE BACK TO THE NUMBER MM-HMM
IT SEEMED LIKE, UH, EVERYBODY FEELS FAIRLY COMFORTABLE WITH THE FIVE MEMBERS, NOT CLEAR ON ALTERNATES.
YOU, I GUESS, OR I THINK YOU GOT A CONSENSUS ON FIVE, AND I BELIEVE YOU HAVE MAJORITY CONSENSUS ON NO ALTERNATES.
HOW DO Y'ALL FEEL ABOUT THAT? I WAS OKAY WITH THE ALTERNATES.
I DIDN'T WANT THE ALTERNATES TO HERE.
SARAH, WHAT DO YOU THINK? I DON'T THINK THEY'RE NECESSARY EITHER.
UM, SO THE NEXT ITEM IS THE TERM.
SO WE KIND OF STARTED THAT CONVERSATION.
UM, SO AGAIN, SO WHEN THIS BOARD INITIALLY STARTS, YOU'LL NEED TO SPLIT THEM SO THEY'RE STAGGERED.
SO, UM, THIS PROPOSES THREE OR ON A TWO YEAR TERM, AND TWO ARE ON A THREE YEAR TERM.
OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN FLIP THAT IF YOU WANT.
UM, AND THEN AFTER THAT, THEY'RE THREE YEAR TERMS. AGAIN, THAT'S TOTALLY UP TO Y'ALL, HOW LONG YOU WANT THOSE TO SERVE.
UM, AND THEN THE OTHER THING, AS SARAH MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A LIMITATION ON, YOU KNOW, IS IT TWO FULL TERMS, UM, THREE TERM, HOWEVER, OR YOU CAN NOT HAVE A TERM LIMIT WRITTEN IN.
THAT'S, AND AS Y'ALL SEE FIT, YOU CAN REAPPOINT, I'M GOING BACK TO HOW WE'RE GONNA DETERMINE WHO SERVES TWO TERMS THE FIRST TIME.
UM, HOW ARE YOU, WHAT ARE YOU ALL SUGGESTING ON THAT? I WAS GONNA SUGGEST MAYBE FLIP A COIN OR DRAW A NUMBER OUT OF A HAT THERE.
THE WAY, WAY IT'S BEEN DONE IN THE PAST MM-HMM
AFTER ALL FIBERS SELECTED MM-HMM
THEIR NAMES ARE BASICALLY DRAWN OUTTA THE HAT.
FIRST, TWO OUTTA THE HAT, GET THREE YEARS, THE NEXT ONE'S GET TWO.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE, THAT'S EXCELLENT.
SO, SO YOU WERE CORRECT THAT, OKAY.
BUT IT'S NORMALLY AFTER ALL FIVE ARE APPOINTED OR APPROVED, THEN IT'S KINDA LIKE, OKAY, NOW WE JUST PUT THEIR NAMES IN THE HAT.
DRAW OUT THE FIRST TWO, GET THE THREE YEARS, THE REST OF 'EM GET TWO.
OR VICE VERSA, HOWEVER IT WORKS OUT.
POWELL, AS FAR AS A TERM LIMIT MM-HMM
UM, I WOULD MATCH WHAT WE AS COUNSEL HAVE FOR TERM LIMITS.
UM, WE'RE FOUR THREE YEAR TERMS, I BELIEVE, PER CHARTER.
AND SO I WOULD MATCH THE SAME THING.
I THINK THAT'S MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
I'M SURE THE VERBIAGE WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, NO MORE THAN 12 YEARS OR FOUR FULL TERMS OR WHATEVER IT HAS TO SAY, BUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THE TERMS SECTION? ALL RIGHT.
SO ELIGIBILITY, UM, THE ONLY THING THAT'S SPECIFICALLY LISTED IN HERE IS THEY HAVE TO BE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY OF BAYTOWN.
I CAN CERTAINLY ADD ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO THAT.
NO, UH, LOOKING AT THAT, HOW ARE WE GOING TO VERIFY THAT THEY'RE A RESIDENT OUTSIDE OF A DRIVER'S? I MEAN, WHAT DO WE LOOK AT NOW TO VERIFY SOMEONE BEING A RESIDENT? ANGIE, CAN YOU SPEAK TO HOW Y'ALL VERIFY THAT WE DO THE IS SYSTEM, VERIFY THE ADDRESS AND THEN, UM, LOOK AT THEIR ID AS WELL.
AND WE INDICATE ON THE APPLICATION AS WELL, UM, THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS TRUE MM-HMM
CAN WE ALSO MAYBE TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER BECAUSE SOMEONE MAY MOVE AND NOT CHANGE THEIR ADDRESS ON THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE.
COULD WE REQUIRE A BILL IN THEIR NAME OF SOME SORT? OR IF THEY DON'T HAVE A BILL IN THEIR NAME, MAYBE PROPERTY TAX RECORDS SHOWING THAT THEY OWN THE PROPERTY OR THAT THERE'S A HOUSE THERE, I'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO LEGAL COUNSEL OR TO THE CITY CLERK.
IT IS KIND OF JUMPING INTO VERY DIFFICULT.
JUST, YEAH, I COULD BUY PROPERTY SOMEWHERE AND SAY I LIVED THERE AND WELL, I'M SAYING IF YOU HAVE A BILL IN YOUR NAME, A WATER BILL, ELECTRIC BILL, I COULD BE RENTING THE HOUSE.
I THINK THEY BE PAYING MY UTILITIES THERE.
IT'S JUST DIFFICULT TO PROVE RESIDENTS.
WELL, I'M SAYING WE'RE HAVING AN ISSUE WITH THAT NOW.
I MEAN, UM, HOW LONG ARE WE GONNA SAY THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE BEEN A RESIDENT OF THE CITY? THAT'S SOMETHING TO LOOK AT.
DO YOU WANT SOMEONE MOVING IN HERE AFTER A WEEK APPLYING TO BE ON THE ETHICS COMMISSION ETHICS BOARD? I THINK
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WE, I MEAN WE WOULD HAVE CONTROL OF THAT AS THE, THE BODY THAT'S DOING THE NOMINATING AND THE APPOINTING.UM, WELL, I MEAN, THEY CAN APPLY.
THEY APPLY, BUT WE ULTIMATELY, WE ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, WILL VOTE ON WHETHER OR NOT WE APPOINT 'EM.
SO, BUT I THINK IF, IF THE SEVEN OF US THINK THEY HAVEN'T LIVED HERE LONG ENOUGH OR, OR WE QUESTION THEIR RESIDENCY, I, I THINK WE JUST WOULDN'T APPOINT.
I WOULD, I WOULD, BUT TO MAKE A, I'D BE HESITANT TO TRY TO PUT SO MUCH IN THIS WHEN WE HAVE THE POWER TO, WE, WE ALREADY CAN APPOINT OR NOT APPOINT ANYONE.
BUT WE WOULD WANT TO BE CONSISTENT ON IT.
SAY WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO COMES UP HERE AND WE AGREE THAT AFTER A MONTH THAT THEY WILL LET THEM DO IT.
BUT SOMEONE ELSE, JUST OUT OF CONSISTENCY HAVE SOMETHING IN ON PAPER SAYING YOU MUST BE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY OF BAYTOWN SO MANY MONTHS OR SO MANY YEARS.
WE DON'T DO THAT FOR ANY OF THE OTHER BOARDS.
SO IF WE WANT CONSISTENCY, THEN WE DON'T ADD THAT ON THERE.
WELL, OR WE COULD ADD IT TO THE OTHER BOARDS ALSO.
BUT I, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WASN'T LOOKED AT.
UM, I MEAN, GEN GENERALLY WHEN WE, WHEN WE HAVE, ARE LOOKING AT OUR, AT OUR APPOINTEES, WE USUALLY WANT TO CALL AND INTERVIEW AND WE KIND OF KNOW THEM.
I MEAN, THE VOTERS HAVE VOTED US IN TO, TO DO THAT, TO DO THAT VETTING FOR THEM.
AND I WOULD, I WOULD, I WOULD HOPE THAT WE ARE DOING OUR DUE DILIGENCE TO DO THAT.
SO THAT KIND OF, BY, LIKE I SAID, YOU'RE GETTING, YOU'RE TO MY CONSTITUENTS COMMENTS, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF OVER, OVER PUTTING WAY TOO MUCH INTO IT AND JUST, AND I GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING.
WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE NEED TO BE SURE THAT WE'RE VETTING THEM BECAUSE WE'VE HAD PEOPLE SERVING ON COMMITTEES WHO SAID THAT THEY NEVER TALKED TO THE PERSON THAT, UM, THE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT, UM, SELECTED THEM TO SERVE ON THE COMMITTEE.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS I'M CONCERNED WITH.
IF WE'RE GONNA DO THIS, WE NEED TO BE SURE THAT WE'RE VETTING THAT WE'RE, EACH OF US ARE CALLING THESE APPLICANTS, LOOKING AT THESE APPLICATIONS TO BE SURE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE WANT.
I DON'T WANT THE CITY CLERK TO BE INUNDATED WITH APPLICATIONS OF PEOPLE THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO APPROVE.
THAT'S JUST MORE WORK ON THEM.
BUT IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA GO WITH, I'M FINE.
WE JUST NEED TO DO OUR PART IN MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE CONSISTENT AND WE'RE VETTING, ESPECIALLY FOR THE ETHICS COMMITTEE THAT WE'RE VETTING THESE PEOPLE.
UH, THEN MOVING ON TO INELIGIBILITY.
UM, SO THIS AGAIN, IS, IS A LIST THAT WE DID NOT HAVE BEFORE SINCE OURS WAS ALL DRIVEN AROUND THE MINISTERIAL ALLIANCE.
UM, SO, SO THIS IS REPRESENTATIVE OF ANOTHER CITY'S LIST.
OBVIOUSLY Y'ALL ARE FREE TO ADD, CHANGE, DELETE AS YOU SEE FIT.
UM, JUST TO CLARIFY, WHAT IS AN OFFICIAL OF A POLITICAL PARTY? DO WE MEAN SOMEONE THAT HOLDS ANY POSITION AT ALL? FOR EXAMPLE, SECRETARY OF A PARTY HERE IN BAY TOWN'S CHAPTER? RIGHT.
UH, PROHIBITING MEMBERS OF THE BOARD FROM BEING A MEMBER OF ANY OTHER BOARD OR COMMISSION FOR THE CITY IN WHICH THE MEMBER SERVES? SO IF SOMEBODY DONATES $50 TO YOUR CAMPAIGN, WOULD THAT, ACCORDING TO THIS, WOULD THAT DISQUALIFY THEM? YOU MEAN NUMBER SEVEN? YOU MEAN NUMBER SEVEN? YOU READ NUMBER EIGHT, BUT I THINK YOU, YOU MEAN NUMBER SEVEN? MY APOLOGIES.
NUMBER SEVEN, UH, PROHIBITING MEMBERS OF THE BOARD FROM BEING A DONOR TO THE CAMPAIGN OF ANY CITY OFFICIAL? I WOULD SAY YES.
YEAH, BECAUSE YOU, YOU, I MEAN, I'M NOT TRYING TO, I'M GONNA BE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, BUT I COULD GO AFTER SOMEBODY POLITICALLY AND THEN DONATE AND THEN DO THAT.
I MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF, YOU'RE TRYING TO PREVENT BIAS, NOT BIAS, BUT SOMEONE TRYING TO DESTROY SOMEBODY'S CAMPAIGN BY, BY DRAGGING THROUGH THE MUD WHEN IT'S NOT REAL.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN, BUT YOU'RE TRYING TO PREVENT SOME OF THAT.
IT'D BE PRETTY DIFFICULT FOR IT TO HAPPEN WITH THE WAY WE HAVE THE CODE OF CONDUCT SET UP, BUT, OKAY.
UM, SHOULD WE ADD SOMETHING? UM, I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THIS BEFORE, BUT, UM, SOMEONE NOT BEING RELATED TO ANY CITY OFFICIALS AT THE,
[00:30:01]
YOU KNOW, BAYTOWN CITY OFFICIALS.I, I JUST, UM, WHEN WE SAY RELATED, YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY, REALLY SPECIFIC.
UM, YOU WANNA GO DOWN THAT ONE FIRST LEVEL RELATION, WE ALREADY HAVE THAT AS PART OF OUR LEGAL.
WE DO HAVE, UM, A STANDARD ALREADY THAT IS IN THE, UM, ETHICS SECTION AND THE DISCLOSURE SECTIONS.
AND THAT WOULD BE, UH, I BELIEVE WITHIN TWO POSITIONS OF, UH, AFFILIATION, BLOOD, OR THROUGH MARRIAGE.
COULD, BUT THAT'S WHAT I, YEAH.
SO IF YOU'RE MARRIED TO MY FIRST COUSIN, THEN YOU'RE INELIGIBLE.
BUT IF YOU'RE MARRIED TO MY SECOND COUSIN, YOU'RE ELIGIBLE.
IT HAPPENS HERE IN BAYTOWN NOW.
NO WAY IT WOULD HAPPEN IN MY OWN FAMILY.
THAT'S WHY I'M, THAT, THAT GETS VERY CHALLENGING.
I JUST, I JUST WAS WANTING TO CLARIFY HOW THAT LOOKS.
I'M NOT GOING, I'M GONNA HAVE TO PROBABLY GET ON ANCESTRY AND FIGURE IT ALL OUT.
I MEAN, GENEALOGY, THAT'S A LOT.
YOU KNOW, BE CAREFUL WHO YOU CALL YOUR COUSIN AND YOUR UNCLE FROM HERE ON.
I WENT, I WENT THROUGH THAT WHOLE DEEP DIVE AND REMEMBER MR. CITY ATTORNEY, I WENT THROUGH ALL OF THAT IN TERMS OF WHAT FIRST, SECOND, THIRD RELATION IS.
AND I WILL ADD THAT THE RULE THAT WE FOLLOW IS THE STATE RULE.
SO I WOULD, I WOULD ADD THE FIRST RELATION.
MY COLLEAGUE AND I WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT NUMBER EIGHT.
IT'S SIMPLY THEY CAN'T SERVE ON ANY OTHER BORDER COMMISSION.
THAT, THAT SENTENCE IS PRETTY CONVOLUTED.
DOES IT SAY THE SAME THING IF CITI WERE THE LAST WORD? HMM.
WAS A PITY FOR WORD OR THE RECORDING.
AS HAS BEEN COMMENTED UP HERE, YOU'RE SOMEWHAT BEATING THIS RABBIT TO DEATH.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS ON INELIGIBILITY? THANK YOU.
UM, SO WE WILL STRIKE THE, UH, ITEM THERE THAT TALKS ABOUT ALTERNATES SINCE WE DID AWAY WITH THAT.
UH, THERE IS A PROVISION THAT PROVIDES FOR THE SCOPE OF AUTHORITY OF THE ETHICS BOARD, UM, PROVIDES THAT THEY ELECT OFFICERS AT THEIR FIRST MEETING.
ALSO PROVIDES THAT THEY ESTABLISH THERE ARE RULES OF PROCEDURE.
UM, AND THEN, UH, THE LAST ITEM IS IT PROVIDES, UH, COUNCIL CAN REMOVE MEMBERS FROM THE BOARD, UM, SHOULD THERE BE A NEED.
SO ANY COMM COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON ANY OF THOSE ITEMS? OKAY.
WHY ARE WE PUTTING THE SUPER MAJORITY OF TWO THIRDS FOR REMOVAL VERSUS SIMPLE MAJORITY? IS THAT A STANDARD IN ETHICS? THINGS THAT YOU FOUND? I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS ODD THAT WE WOULD HAVE SUCH AN ONUS.
NO, IT WAS THE ONE OUT OF THIS.
I COULDN'T TELL YOU FOR SURE IF IT WAS ALL OF THEM HAVE THAT.
SOME, SOME HAVE THIS ARTICLE, SOME DON'T.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO AGAIN, UP, UP TO Y'ALL IF YOU WANT.
THAT'S BECAUSE I CAN'T, I, I KNOW THERE'S ONE OTHER THING THAT WE DO VOTE ON THAT TAKES THE, THE SIGNIFICANT MAJORITY, BUT I CAN'T THINK OF WHAT IT IS.
WHEN WE'RE DOING CERTAIN CO UM, ZONING CHANGES, WE HAVE TO HAVE A SUPER MAJORITY.
AND, AND, AND, AND MY QUESTION, I'M NOT FOR OR AGAINST IT.
IT'S JUST KIND OF WHY ARE WE PUTTING THIS SIGNIFICANT ONUS.
ONUS? WHERE DO IT'S NUMBER, IT'S M ON REMOVAL.
TO REMOVE A, A MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE TAKES A TWO THIRD VOTE, WHICH IS A SUPER MAJORITY OF COUNCIL.
VERY SELDOM DO WE REQUIRE OURSELVES TO DO THAT.
I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE THAT IS IT'S STATUTORY.
SO WHY WOULD WE, IS IT BECAUSE IT'S ETHICS? MAYBE THEY JUST WANT, YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY, THIS IS THE ONE THING THAT COULD POTENTIALLY GO
[00:35:01]
SIDEWAYS AND HAVE INFLUENCE, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE THE THOUGHT BEHIND IT.I MEAN, YOU'RE TALKING ONE VOTE, BUT MM-HMM
WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE SUPER MAJORITY TO PUT 'EM ON THERE.
SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THE, THE SENSITIVITY TO REMOVING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE.
BUT AGAIN, IF THE SEVEN OF US, IF HE GETS TO US AND IT GETS ON THE AGENDA AGAIN, ULTIMATELY THAT ISSUE COMES TO US IN THE END.
SO WHY WOULD WE PUT AN ONUS ON OURSELVES TO BE SO TOUGH TO REMOVE A MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE? MIKE? I THINK THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING JUST LEADS BACK TO ORIGINALLY WHEN WE WERE ON THE AD HOC, IT TAKES US IN CIRCLES WITH THIS ETHICS COMMITTEE BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE, I, I KNOW THAT WE NEED IT.
AND, AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT NOW.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE THE ONES PUTTING THEM ON THE BOARD.
WE CAN TAKE 'EM OFF THE BOARD.
I MEAN, IT'S, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE MAKE THE FINAL DECISION AND WE CAN REMOVE THEM WHEN WE WANT TO REMOVE THEM.
I COMPLETELY SUPPORT AND FEEL THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A STRONG ETHIC POLICY AND ORDINANCE.
UH, I'M GOING ALONG WITH THE COMMITTEE 'CAUSE THAT'S THE TOUCHY FEEL GOOD SIDE OF IT.
BUT ULTIMATELY, FROM DAY ONE, FROM THE START OF A COMPLAINT, IT'S GOING TO END UP IN OUR LAPS.
NO MATTER WHAT COMMITTEES WE HAVE OUT IN FRONT OF US MM-HMM
IT'S GONNA END UP IN OUR LAPS FOR FINAL DECISION.
AND AS INDICATED, EVEN IN THE, IN THE PROCESS WE'RE GOING THROUGH, WE CAN ACCEPT THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, WE CAN REJECT THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS.
WE CAN MAKE UP OUR OWN RECOMMENDATIONS.
ULTIMATELY, IT COMES TO US, OKAY, LET'S HAVE A COMMITTEE.
LET'S MAKE SURE THE RULES, ETHICS RULES ARE STRONG AND FAIR SO THAT WE ALL COMPLY.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, AND I'VE HEARD A COMMENT, WELL, YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO HAVE TO MAKE A RULING AGAINST ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF I NEED TO DO THAT, I WILL DO THAT.
AND HOPEFULLY I'VE GOT THE ETHICS AND MORAL CALIBER OF MYSELF TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.
AGAIN, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO ANY OF THIS.
I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A VERY STRONG ETHICS POLICY AND, AND REQUIREMENTS THAT ALLOW PEOPLE TO MAKE COMPLAINTS.
BUT WE DON'T NEED TO MAKE IT SO ONEROUS ON OURSELVES.
AGAIN, WE PUT 'EM ON THE, ON THE BOARD.
WHY CAN'T WE PULL 'EM OFF THE BOARD WITH A MAJORITY RULE.
IF THE WILL OF CONSENSUS, THE MAJORITY IS TO STAY WITH TWO THIRDS, I'M OKAY WITH THAT.
BUT IT'S, WHY WOULD WE DO THAT TO OURSELVES? YEAH.
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HE'S SAYING IS JUST BRINGING BACK TO MY MEMORY SOME OF THE LONG CONVERSATIONS WE HAD WITH LEGAL WHEN WE WERE DOING THE AD HOC.
I DON'T THINK A SUPER MAJORITY, MY OPINION ON THAT IS IT'S NOT NEEDED.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON ANY OF THE ETHICS THAT WE'VE COVERED? SO THE OFFICIAL, UM, THOUGHT IS TO JUST USE MAJORITY VOTE.
UNLESS THERE'S A STATUTE, I'LL DOUBLE CHECK THE ENABLING LEGISLATION.
I DON'T RECALL THAT BEING IN THERE.
BUT, UH, BEFORE WE ADOPT ANYTHING, I'LL MAKE SURE THAT I DO A DEEP DIVE.
WELL, WITH THAT, WE ARE THROUGH IT ALL FOR THE
SO WE WILL BRING BACK, SORRY, I SHOULD STAND IT HERE.
UH, WE WILL BRING BACK THE ORDINANCE WITH ALL OF YOUR FEEDBACK, UH, FOR JUNE 12TH.
WE'LL GET THAT OUT TO YOU AHEAD OF TIME.
MAKE SURE Y'ALL HAVE TIME TO REVIEW THAT, UM, FOR THE MEETING.
I'M GLAD I WAS HERE TO HELP Y'ALL GET THROUGH THIS.
UM, I WILL SAY THAT FIRST AND FOREMOST, THANK YOU FOR THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND EFFORT THAT YOU'VE PUT INTO THIS.
UM, ALL I WAS ACTUALLY SPEAKING WITH JASON ABOUT THIS PROCESS, AND WE'VE COVERED A LOT OF GROUND IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, AND YOU HAVE COME WITH SOME GREAT SUGGESTIONS, SOME OUTSIDE OF THE BOX SUGGESTIONS THAT I CAN APPRECIATE.
SO THANK YOU FOR THE TIME AND EFFORT THAT YOU PUT INTO THIS, AND, UM, ESPECIALLY COMING TO THESE WORK SESSIONS, TRYING TO GET A CONSENSUS OUT OF SEVEN INDIVIDUALS, AN EXCELLENT JOB.
[b. Receive and discuss an update on the ExxonMobil Baytown Events Center.]
TWO B, RECEIVE AND DISCUSS AN UPDATE ON THE EXXONMOBIL BAYTOWN EVENTS CENTER.AND GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
UH, SO WE'RE GONNA PROVIDE, UH, SOME INFORMATION,
[00:40:01]
UM, TO KIND OF UPDATE, UH, COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC ON, UH, WHERE WE ARE WITH THE EVENT CENTER.AND, UM, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF THOUGHT AS TO KIND OF HOW THINGS HAVE EVOLVED AND, UM, KIND OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO INCORPORATE GOING FORWARD.
SO, UH, AS WE KIND OF ROLL THROUGH, UH, QUICK UPDATE.
UH, OBVIOUSLY Y'ALL AWARE THE VENUE NAME HAS BEEN, UH, FINALIZED.
UH, THE WEBSITE HAS BEEN LAUNCHED.
UH, WE HAVE STARTED WORK ON THE GEOTECHNICAL ENVIRONMENTAL AND SURVEYING.
UM, WE'RE ALSO LOOKING TO, OR MAKING PREPARATIONS TO GET INTO THE PLANNING AND DESIGN PHASES, WHICH WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT A LITTLE LATER.
WE'LL, WE WILL LOOK TO REVIEW THE SITE AREA, IDENTIFY THE, UH, BUILDABLE, UH, ACREAGE OUT THERE.
UH, CONTINUE TO ENGAGE, UH, STAKEHOLDERS, UM, PREPARING FOR REACHING OUT TO THE COMMUNITY AND ALSO HAVING FUTURE VISIONING SESSIONS, UH, WITH YOU ALL.
SO, AS WE'VE, UM, KIND OF TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THIS STARTED, UH, BACK IN 2022 WITH THE ADOPTION OF THE, UH, CHAPTER TWO 12 ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, UH, WITH EXXONMOBIL, UH, THAT DID, UM, SECURE A $75 MILLION UPFRONT PAYMENT.
AND, UH, THE WORDING AND THE AGREEMENT, UH, POINTS TO DEVELOPMENT OF A MUL MULTIPURPOSE VENUE.
AND, UM, KIND OF MOVING ON, YOU KNOW, WE WENT THROUGH SOME OF THE VISIONING PROCESS, UH, SOME OF THE, UM, OPTIONS FOR THE FACILITY.
UH, WENT THROUGH THE, UH, ILA PROCESS WITH HARRIS COUNTY, UH, BROUGHT THEM ON AS A PARTNER.
UH, MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT, UM, BACK IN APRIL OF 23, UH, COMPLETED THE HYUNDAI, UH, STRATEGIC PARTNERS STUDY FOR FEASIBILITY.
UM, THEN EXPANDED OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HARRIS COUNTY.
AND, UH, IN OCTOBER, UM, IDENTIFIED THE SITE.
SO AS THAT PROCESS AND AS OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS AS IT, THAT'S KIND OF GONE THROUGH, UM, YOU KNOW, WE DID HAVE AN ORIGINAL VISION OF A STANDALONE INDOOR SPORTS COMPLEX.
UM, THAT KIND OF MORPHED INTO A FEW DIFFERENT IDEAS.
AND WE WENT DOWN A COUPLE PATHS, EXPLORING OPTIONS, AND, UH, KIND OF SEEING, UH, WHAT MIGHT BE OUT THERE.
UM, ONCE WE LANDED ON THIS, THIS SITE, UH, THIS KIND OF OPENED UP THE DOORS FOR US TO LOOK AT WHAT WE WOULD DO CONSIDERING THE LOCATION, CONSIDERING WHAT'S AROUND THE LOCATION, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, SPECIFICALLY INCORPORATING THE LIBRARY INTO THAT.
AND SO WE REALLY KIND OF WENT BACK TO THAT WHOLE, UH, MULTI-SPORT, UH, DESTINATION.
AND, UM, IDENTIFIED THAT, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE ARE NOW, WHICH IS A FACILITY THAT'S GONNA SUPPORT YOUTH SPORTS.
SPORTS TOURISM, HAVE AN ELEMENT OF LOCAL RECREATION, UM, AS WELL AS INCORPORATION OF THE LIBRARY.
AND SO IF WE WERE TO JUST KIND OF NARROW DOWN THOSE ITEMS TO, UM, OUR PRIMARY FOCUS POINTS THAT, UM, THAT WE CAN POINT TO, WE'RE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, A FACILITY THAT'S GONNA HAVE EIGHT TO 12 INDOOR COURTS ATTRACT YOUTH TOURNAMENTS, SPORTS TOURISM, UH, INCORPORATING THE LIBRARY AND THAT, UM, UH, LOCAL RECREATION PIECE THAT, UH, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD.
AND SO, CONSIDERING THOSE THINGS, UM, WE KIND OF STARTED LOOKING AT WHERE WE WERE AND THE INITIAL PROJECTIONS THAT, UM, WERE KIND OF COMING FROM SOME OF OUR DISCUSSIONS WERE REALLY POINTING TO THE FACT THAT, UM, THE 75 MILLION MIGHT BE TESTED, UH, AS A LIMIT.
AND THE OPERATIONS, UM, ALWAYS PREDICTED THE IDEA OF A SUBSIDY.
WELL, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN KIND OF AWARE OF HOW THINGS HAVE, UH, UH, EVOLVED ON SEVERAL PROJECTS OVER THE LAST, UH, FEW MONTHS TO YEAR.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HEAR YOU.
AND OUR GOAL IS THAT, UH, WE'RE NOT GOING TO EXCEED THAT BUDGET AND WE'RE GOING TO PREVENT AN OPERATIONAL SUBSIDY.
UM, WE DO NEED TO CONTINUE GOING THROUGH THE PUBLIC OUTREACH, UH, PIECE.
OBVIOUSLY, UH, WE WANNA REFINE, EXPAND THAT APPROACH.
THERE'S A LOT MORE TO DECIDE THAN JUST THOSE THREE ITEMS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT A MINUTE AGO.
AND WE WANT TO HAVE, UM, A BETTER WAY TO DEFINE THE COST, KEEP ON THIS PATH THAT, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA STAY
[00:45:01]
WITHIN BUDGET AND WE'RE SHOOTING FOR A FACILITY THAT IS DESIGNED FOR OPERATIONS THAT WILL NOT HAVE A NEED FOR A SUBSIDY.AND SO AS PART OF THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE KIND OF LOOKED IN, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE AFFECT WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE NEED TO FOCUS ON? AND SO FOR THE MOST PART, WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT TRADITIONAL BRICK AND MORTAR CONSTRUCTION.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE FACILITY COSTS THERE.
UM, THE ESTIMATES ARE A LOT HIGHER THAN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE, UM, GAME ON FACILITY THAT SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE VISITED IN, UH, THE DALLAS-FORT WORTH AREA.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THE COST OF A, UM, OF A METAL BUILDING FINISHED OUT PARTIAL MASONRY.
AND SO THAT'S ONE OF THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE WANNA LOOK AT DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE STAY WITHIN BUDGET.
NOW WHEN WE START LOOKING AT, UM, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT? SURE.
SO LOOKING AT THE, THE DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE HAVE FOR KIND OF REFINING OUR FISCAL APPROACHES TO THIS, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE STARTING OUT WITH 75 MILLION.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING TO HAVE A DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION BUDGET GOAL OF RIGHT AROUND, UH, 50.5 MILLION.
WE'VE ALREADY EX UH, WE'VE ALREADY EXPENDED 4.5 MILLION, UH, FOR LAND ACQUISITION AND CONSULTING SERVICES.
AND THIS IS GONNA NEED TO INCLUDE THE SITE WORK, PARKING SIDEWALKS, UH, OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S NEEDED.
AND THE IDEA IS THAT WITH THAT 20 MILLION OR UP TO $20 MILLION, WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SET THAT ASIDE TO GENERATE INTEREST INCOME THAT CAN HELP TO, UH, SUBSIDIZE, IF YOU WILL, UH, THE OPERATIONAL COSTS.
IF WE'RE GENERATING INTEREST INCOME FROM THE SAVINGS, THEN WE CAN HAVE A BETTER IDEA OF, OKAY, IF WE, IF WE ARE PROJECTING OUT THERE, WE'RE GONNA LOSE A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND A YEAR, WE CAN HAVE THESE RESERVES GENERATE MONEY TO COVER THAT AND TO ALSO POSSIBLY FUND, UH, FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS OR FUTURE CAPITAL NEEDS.
SO WE'RE GONNA GO INTO BOTH DESIGN AND CON AND CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATION WITH THE IDEA THAT WE'RE GONNA MAINTAIN SOME SORT OF WAY TO AVOID A SUBSIDY AND SOMETHING AROUND THAT.
CAN WE MAKE COMMENTS AS WE GO? YOU WANT US, UM, I GOT A FEW MORE WE CAN, I'M ABOUT, I'M ABOUT HALFWAY, SO IT'S UP TO YOU.
I LIKE TO MAKE COMMENT ON THE SUBSIDY ISSUE.
WHETHER WE PUT 20 MILLION ASIDE AND WE GET INTEREST OFF OF THAT 20 MILLION TO SUBSIDIZE THIS OPERATION OR NOT, STILL REQUIRES A SUBSIDY.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE IT CLEAR, THIS IS WHERE WE GET BEAT UP BY OUR CONSTITUENTS.
NOBODY EVER SAID IT WAS GONNA LOSE MONEY.
WE'RE, WE'RE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT PUTTING $20 MILLION ASIDE, DRAWING INTEREST OFF OF THAT TO COVER THE SUBSIDY COSTS.
SO WE ARE GONNA SUBSIDIZE THIS.
AND I'M GOING, I'M GONNA KEEP STANDING ON THAT 'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE GET BEAT UP.
THAT'S THE ISSUE THAT WE MADE A DECISION RECENTLY ON THAT WE WEREN'T GONNA SUBSIDIZE THINGS TO ANY GREAT EXTENT JUST BECAUSE WE GOT 20 MILLION BUCKS OVER HERE.
THAT'S DRAWING A MILLION DOLLARS INTEREST THAT WE CAN SLIDE OVER TO THIS THING.
IT'S, WELL, IT'S NOT COSTING US ANY MONEY.
IT'S COSTING US, THERE IS A SUBSIDY THERE THAT'S JUST BEING PAID FOR BY THE RESERVES THAT WE COULD BE, AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES HAS INDICATED, COULD BE USED FOR OTHER THINGS.
SO LET'S JUST BE CLEAR THAT IT'S A SUBSIDIZED OPERATION WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM IS NOT RELEVANT TO ME.
SO, AND I WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING BACK TO THAT.
I, I, I AGREE AND I'M GLAD THAT THAT'S BEING STATED.
HOWEVER, AS WE ALL KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO COMPLEX ECONOMICS, UM, IF THIS IS DONE THE RIGHT WAY AND FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE AND GETTING THE, UM, COMMUNITY INVOLVED IN WHICH DIRECTION THIS GOES, THIS COULD DRIVE A, A LOT OF ECONOMIC BOOST.
AND I, I KNOW, I KNOW ABSOLUTELY THAT, THAT THAT COMMENT CAN BE TAKEN AND, AND USED IN SEVERAL WAYS WITH OTHER PROJECTS, BUT IT'S EXTREMELY COMPLEX.
IT'S NOT JUST THAT 20 MILLION COULD BE USED SOMEWHERE ELSE.
HOWEVER, I THINK IT WAS, UM, PUBLIC WORKS THAT TOLD US THAT TO REPAY EVERY ROAD ONCE A YEAR, Y'ALL TOLD US 20 PLUS MILLION DOLLARS.
[00:50:01]
SO 200 MILLION WE'VE, WE'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH ABOUT USING THIS MONEY.I, I JUST, I APPRECIATE YOU MENTIONING THAT, BUT TO, TO COMPARE THAT WE COULD HAVE USED IT ON SOMETHING ELSE IS NOT FAIR, IN MY OPINION AT THIS MOMENT.
AND, AND AGAIN, I AGREE IT, THIS IS A GREAT IDEA.
I'M A, I'M ABSOLUTELY FOR THIS PROJECT, I JUST WANNA MAKE IT CLEAR AND I'LL CONTINUE TO MAKE IT CLEAR AS WE GO THROUGH THAT IT'S BEING SUBSIDIZED AGAIN, WHERE THAT SUBSIDY COMES FROM IS NOT RELEVANT FOR ME.
WE'VE GOT 20 MILLION, WE COULD SPEND THE WHOLE 75 MILLION AND BUILD A MUCH LARGER, MUCH BIGGER, MUCH NICER FACILITY AND NOT HAVE THAT RESERVE.
SO I, I APPRECIATE STAFF LOOKING AT WAYS TO HAVE SOME RESERVES THAT WILL COVER THE SUBSIDY COST.
BUT I'M GONNA MAKE IT CLEAR AS WE GO THROUGH THAT THIS IS GONNA BE SUBSIDIZED AND IT'S COMING FROM THAT 20 MILLION.
I, AND I DO WANNA POINT OUT, BUT I'M JUST GONNA MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IT'S, WELL, IT'S NOT COSTING ANYTHING IT IS COSTING US.
I DO WANNA POINT OUT THOUGH THAT ALL OF, YOU KNOW, THESE ACTIVITIES, THE CONSTRUCTION, THE OPERATIONS, AND THE GENERATION OF THE INTEREST INCOME WOULD OCCUR WITHIN THESE SPECIAL RE WITHIN A SPECIAL RECREATION FUND.
IT WOULD NOT, UH, TOUCH OR BE ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM CONNECTED TO THE GENERAL FUND.
UM, AND OBVIOUSLY AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, WE MAKE CHANGES ON THE SERVICES PROVIDED OR OUR COSTS, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT THE OTHER END OF WHAT WE'RE CHARGING, UH, AND OUR REVENUE AS WELL.
AND THE BIG, THE BIG ADVANTAGE I THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE AS WE MOVE FORWARD IS WE'RE GONNA BE DESIGNING WITH OPERATIONS IN MIND.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THERE ARE SEVERAL EXAMPLES OUT THERE, BUT WE WANNA BUILD SOMETHING THAT CAN BE OPERATED FOR WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
AND NOT, NOT A HUGE, UH, SUBSIDY OR SOMETHING THAT IS JUST GONNA, YOU KNOW, NOT DELIVER WHAT'S BEEN, WHAT'S BEEN PROMISED.
UM, ANOTHER OP, ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY IN THE FUTURE COULD BE, UH, CONSIDERATION OF BRINGING A, UH, VENUE TAX PROPOSITION TO THE VOTERS.
UH, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE A 2%, UM, ADD ON TO THE CURRENT HOT RATE.
UM, AND THAT WOULD BE PAID BY VISITORS OF, UH, TO THE CITY, UH, THAT WOULD STAY AT A HOTEL.
UM, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD BRING TO THE VOTERS FOR CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATION OF A FACILITY SIMILAR TO THIS.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK AT FOR THE, UH, FOR THE FUTURE, TO BE CLEAR THAT THOSE KIND OF, UM, ADD-ONS TO VISITORS OR TOURISM ARE SEEN IN A LOT OF CITIES.
AND SO THAT IS, IS NOT MEANT TO GO TOWARDS OUR CITIZENRY.
IT'S MEANT TO BE FOR VISITORS.
MAYOR AND COUNSEL, I DO NEED TO CLARIFY ONE THING THAT WAS SAID IN THE COMMENTS, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT IT TO BE MISUSED ONLINE OR, OR JUST THROUGH DISCUSSION.
IT, IT WAS STATED THAT THE 20 MILLION COULD BE USED SOMEWHERE ELSE, THAT IT CAN BE USED SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE PROJECT OF THE BAYTOWN EXXON OR THE EXXONMOBIL EVENT CENTER.
IT CANNOT BE USED ANYWHERE ELSE WITH, WITHIN THE CITY.
SO IT CAN BE USED AS AN ADD-ON TO THE EXXONMOBIL EVENT CENTER.
IT CAN BE USED FOR A, A, UM, AN ADJACENT BUILDING OR AN, UH, ACCOUTREMENT TO THE, TO THE EVENT CENTER.
BUT IT CANNOT BE USED FOR JUST SOME RANDOM INFRASTRUCTURE OR ANYTHING ELSE WITHIN THE CITY.
I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION.
'CAUSE THAT'S THE CONTEXT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
SO I WOULD, I KNEW WHAT YOU MEANT.
I JUST, FOR THE CITIZENS, I, AND I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION AND, AND ALSO WITH THE LIBRARY, UM, I, I KNOW THAT WE'RE, MOST PEOPLE ARE ASSUMING THE REASON WE'RE INCORPORATING THE LIBRARY IS BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION.
UM, BUT IS IT TRUE THAT WE WERE ALSO GONNA NEED TO REDO THE LIBRARY ANYWAYS? IS THERE IS A LONG-TERM PLAN TO LOOK AT HOW WE CAN, UM, REUTILIZE THE LIBRARY.
THERE'S THE DISCUSSIONS ON WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH IT IS A VERY LARGE BUILDING.
IT DOES NEED TO BE REFURBISHED.
IT DOES NEED TO BE REHABILITATED.
UM, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSIONS, BUT NOT, I WOULD SAY AN ACTIVE ACTION PLAN.
UH, THIS GAVE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE LIFE TO BE CONSIDERED.
AND CAROL, AM I MISSTATING THAT? HA.
HAVE THERE BEEN NUMBERS? SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE ANOTHER BUILDING YES.
THAT HAS A SPECIFIC NUMBER THAT IT TAKES TO REHABILITATE THAT BUILDING.
HAS THERE BEEN A NUMBER ASSIGNED TO WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO REHABILITATE THE LIBRARY? UH, I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT JUST, I BELIEVE THE ROOF ALONE WAS LIKE A MILLION DOLLARS.
OR HOW MUCH WAS IT? FRANK'S NOT HERE.
DO YOU REMEMBER? I DON'T REMEMBER THE REASON THAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME.
THAT WOULD BE A COST THAT THE CITY WOULD, WOULD NEED TO INCUR EVENTUALLY ANYWAYS.
SO IF THERE'S A WAY TO INCORPORATE THE LIBRARY,
[00:55:01]
THAT'S IMPORTANT, IN MY OPINION, IF IT, IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE FIXED ON THAT BUILDING.CAN WE GO BACK TO THE PICTURES OF THE TWO BUILDINGS? WHAT, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT ON LIFE EXPECTANCY BETWEEN THE TWO? OR WOULD IT BE AROUND THE SAME? I WOULD ASSUME THEY'RE AROUND THE SAME.
I, I CAN'T SPEAK FROM ANY POSITION OF AUTHORITY ON THAT MM-HMM
BUT, UM, I WOULD ASSUME THAT WE WOULD BUILD THEM TO HAVE A SIMILAR LIFESPAN.
AND THE REASON I WAS ASKING IS BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT MATERIALS BEING USED, YOU ARE LOOKING, UM, AND I THINK IT WOULD HELP THE PUBLIC IF THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE, IF THERE WAS A LIFE EXPECTANCY DIFFERENCE, WHAT IT WOULD BE, AND ALSO THE MAINTENANCE, THE UPKEEP OF EACH BUILDING.
UM, THERE'S SOME INFORMATION I THINK THAT WOULD, WOULD, UM, BE BENEFICIAL TO US.
AND I THINK THAT IS THE KIND OF THING WHEN I, WHEN I MENTIONED EARLIER THE IDEA OF DESIGNING FOR OPERATIONS MM-HMM
THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT ARE GONNA BE FLUSHED OUT MM-HMM
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, DO WE WANT TO DESIGN SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE A HUGE MAINTENANCE BURDEN? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
UH, WE WANT SOMETHING THAT'S DURABLE, THAT'S FLEXIBLE, UM, AND THAT MEETS THE NEEDS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'VE ESTABLISHED.
SO, UM, WE CERTAINLY WILL TAKE THINGS LIKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
SO I'M LOOKING AT THOSE, THE LIFE EXPECT SHOULD BE ABOUT THE SAME, ROUGHLY IN MY EXPERIENCE, AND OKAY.
MAINTENANCE WILL BE A WHOLE LOT HIGHER ON A BREAK THAT BRICK AND MORTAR A WHOLE LOT MORE.
AND IT IS, UM, IT'S EXTREMELY HIGHER JUST TALKING TO THE FOLKS AT THAT CENTER, THEIR OPERATIONS IS PRETTY HIGH, THEIR M AND O.
UM, AND, UH, I FEEL EVEN WHEN WE TALK TO THEM AND AS WE LOOK AT BUILDING THIS OUT, BECAUSE I KNOW SOMETIMES THERE'S COMMENTS THAT, WELL, WE SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE BUILT IT, OR WE SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT EXTRA SPACE BEFORE WE BUILT IT.
AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT EACH OF THE FACILITIES HAVE TOLD US IS THAT THEY NEVER HAVE ENOUGH SPACE.
SO I WANT US TO KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WELL, BECAUSE WE COULD COME UP WITH A DESIGN AND THEN WE END UP GETTING BIGGER TOURNAMENTS THAN WE EXPECTED, OR, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT TYPES OF USAGE FOR, UH, THE EVENT SPACE.
AND SO NONE OF THEM WERE EVER HAPPY WITH THE AMOUNT OF SPACE THAT THEY HAVE BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE, WE COULD HAVE HAD MORE.
AND SO, UM, YES, WE WANT IT TO BE GREAT AND WE WANT TO INVITE AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO UTILIZE IT.
UM, BUT I ALSO WANT THE, UH, OUR CITIZENS TO UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BUILDING ACCORDING TO THE VISIBILITY STUDY, UH, ACCORDING TO THE FUNDS THAT WE HAVE IN HAND, UH, COULD WE DO SOMETHING BETTER? THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE THAT OPPORTUNITY THAT WE DO SOMETHING BETTER.
BUT TO YOUR COMMENT, WE HAVE A NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH THAT IS INCREASING THEIR EVENT CENTER MM-HMM
AND WE HAVE ONE THAT'S JUST TO THE WEST OF US WITH A P THAT IS INCREASING THEIR EVENT CENTER YEAH.
IS JUST STARTING CONSTRUCTION ON IT.
SO AS WE'RE KIND OF MOVING FORWARD IN THIS, AND I MENTIONED, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT OPERATIONS IN, IN THE EARLY PHASES, UM, TYPICALLY THESE ARE GONNA BE KIND OF THE CATEGORIES, IF YOU WILL, OR WHAT WE CONSIDER FOR OPERATIONS IN TERMS OF REVENUES ON AN ANNUAL BASIS AND EXPENSES.
UM, AND THESE ARE PRETTY MUCH UNIVERSAL.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'LL HAVE TO CONSIDER AS WE'RE MOVING FORWARD.
UM, YOU OBVIOUSLY, ONE LINE IS REPAIRS AND MAINTENANCE, SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO CONSIDER THESE THINGS UPFRONT.
AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, AT A PRO FORMA AT PROJECTIONS, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE, UM, TO REALLY MAKE THE DECISIONS ON WHAT WE WANNA BUILD AND HOW IT WILL, UH, IN TURN, UH, BE OPERATED.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT MAKING DECISIONS, UH, ON THE EARLY, IN THE EARLY PHASES ABOUT SPECIFICS ON, UM, YOU KNOW, WHO DOES WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, BUT WE'RE GETTING THERE AND WE'RE KEEPING THE IDEA OF THE BUDGET IN MIND THROUGHOUT ALL OF THE, ALL OF THESE STEPS.
SO, UM, AND AS WE MENTIONED, COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, AND YOU PROBABLY, YOU'VE SEEN THIS SLIDE BEFORE, THAT IS GONNA BE A PART OF A BIG PART OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AS WE'RE MOVING FORWARD.
UM, ONCE THINGS START TO PROGRESS, UH, THE IDEA IS THAT YES, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAVE THOSE KIND OF THREE MAIN TENETS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES BOTH FROM A MARKET PERSPECTIVE AND FROM A COMMUNITY PERSPECTIVE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DO TONS OF DIFFERENT THINGS, UH, YOU KNOW, THE INDOOR ACTIVITY OPTIONS,
[01:00:01]
YOU KNOW, COURTS AND WHAT CAN WE DO ON OUR COURTS, UM, YOU KNOW, FIELD SPORTS, UH, THE IDEA OF SERVICES, ATHLETIC TRAINING, SPORTS MEDICINE, UH, FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT VISITED THE GAME ON FACILITY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD DIFFERENT VENDORS THERE PROVIDING DIFFERENT SERVICES.SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WIDE VARIETY OF, UH, OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE HAVE THERE THAT WILL ALL KIND OF PLAY INTO OUR OPERATING COSTS AND OUR OPERATING REVENUES.
UM, AND THERE'S ROOM IN THAT DISCUSSION, UH, AS IT SHOULD BE FOR INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY, INPUT FROM THE MARKET TO WHERE WE DESIGN A FACILITY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT CAN PROVIDE FOR BOTH.
CAN I COMMENT RIGHT THERE ON THE COMMUNITY INPUT, IF YOU DON'T MIND, MAYOR? YEAH, GO AHEAD.
SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE, I'VE BEEN ASKED OFTEN ABOUT COMMUNITY INPUT AND THAT THE CITY IS NOT LISTENING TO THE CITIZENS NOR TAKING ANY KIND OF RECOMMENDATION FROM THE CITIZENS.
AND THAT WE ARE JUST MOVING ALONG WITHOUT ANY KIND OF INPUT.
AND IT'S, IT'S WHAT WE SAY AND WHAT WE SAY, ONLY THAT'S A MAJORITY OF WHAT I HEAR OFTEN.
IT'S A VERY SMALL SECTOR OF THE CITY THAT KEEPS SAYING THAT SAME THING TO ME.
WHAT'S NOT, WHAT, WHAT I WILL SAY WE HAVE NOT DONE A GOOD JOB AT IS TALKING ABOUT ALL THE HISTORY THAT'S LED UP TO THIS POINT FOR COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE 2018 RECREATION STUDY MM-HMM
THE 2018 RECREATION STUDY ACTUALLY PROPOSES THIS EVENT CENTER ALMOST, IT'S A LITTLE BIT SMALLER IN THAT, IN THAT REC, IN THAT RECOMMENDATION MM-HMM
UH, BUT IT'S ALSO MENTIONED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE 2020 PLAN, IT'S MENTIONED IN, UH, THE PARKS MASTER PLAN, WHICH WAS ADOPTED IN 2021.
IT'S, IT'S A, A VERSION OF IT.
IT'S LIKE, IT'S NOT THE EXACT SAME THING.
IT'S NOT THE EXACT SAME THING, BUT THE VISION OF THIS TYPE OF FACILITY IS MENTIONED IN MULTIPLE ADOPTED PLANS BY THIS BODY, BY THE CITY COUNCIL THAT HAS BEEN WORKING FOR, FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS NOW, TO GET TO THIS POINT, MIND YOU, THERE WAS A PAUSE WITH COVID IN THERE AND THE LAST PARKS PLAN, WHICH WAS ADOPTED IN 2021, HAS A, HAS A VISION AROUND A, A COMMUNITY FACILITY.
UM, AND THIS STARTED IN 2022 WITH THE EXXONMOBIL AGREEMENT.
SO ALL OF THAT IS CONTIGUOUS, HAVE BEEN OPERATING AS WITH THIS BODY'S VISION FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
AND IN GOVERNMENT YEARS, Y'ALL ALL KNOW SEVEN YEARS IS NOT A LONG TIME IN GOVERNMENT YEARS.
AND, UM, UH, I, I, I JUST KNEW I SAY ALL THAT TO SAY THAT THIS HAS BEEN LARGE COMMUNITY PIECES THAT HAVE PUT THESE PLANS TOGETHER TO GET TO THIS POINT.
AND WHEN WE START DOING A COMMUNITY OUTREACH, WE HOPE TO DO STUDY GROUPS.
'CAUSE THERE'S NO POINT IN REINVENTING THE WHEEL.
YOU DO STUDY GROUPS OF LIKE HOW THE BOND COMMITTEE WORKS, WHERE THEY SAY, HEY, THESE STUDIES WERE ALREADY DONE, THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN ADOPTED BY COUNCIL.
ARE THEY STILL RELEVANT OR ARE THEY NOT RELEVANT? AND IF THEY ARE, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD AND IF ANYTHING NEEDS TO BE ADDED, THEN WE MOVE FORWARD.
BUT IT CAN'T JUST BE CARTE BLANCHE START OVER, BECAUSE THAT WOULD RESET EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR THE PAST SEVEN YEARS.
AND YES, WE PROBABLY NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF LIKE, BRANDING ALL OF THAT, BUT THAT'S A LOT TO SAY WHEN, WHEN YOU INVOLVE NUANCES AND CONTEXT THAT HAVE TO BE REALLY PUT OUT THERE AND LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, FOUR OR FIVE PLANS OVER THE PAST SEVEN YEARS THAT HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT, AT MAY.
WELL, I WAS GOING TO, YOU READ MY MIND, BUT I WAS ABOUT TO BRING THAT UP.
UM, THINK LAURA AND I WERE THE ONLY TWO THAT WERE ON COUNCIL AT THAT POINT WHEN THAT HAPPENED.
AND MIKE, I THINK YOU WERE WORKING FOR THE CITY.
THERE WERE FOUR CONNECTIONS ON THIS, ON THIS CURRENT BODY THAT WERE INVOLVED WITH THAT 2018 PLAN.
FOUR OF Y'ALL WERE CONNECTED IN SOME WAY TO THAT 2018 PLAN.
AND WE NOT ONLY GOT INPUT FROM RESIDENTS OF BAYTOWN, BUT IT WAS SOME PEOPLE FROM SOME CLOSE SURROUNDING AREAS THAT SET IN ON A FEW OF THESE MEETINGS.
CLIFF, DO YOU REMEMBER HOW MANY MEETINGS THAT TOOK PLACE? IT WAS A LOT.
LAURA, DO YOU REMEMBER THERE, THERE WAS EVEN A YOUTH COMMITTEE THAT Y'ALL HAD PUT TOGETHER? AND I, I'LL GIVE YOU JUST TO GO ALONG WITH HIS TIMELINE.
ONE OF THE YOUTH THAT WAS ON THAT COMMITTEE IS 24 YEARS OLD NOW, AND THEY WERE 17 WHEN THEY SAT ON ONE OF THE STRATEGIC PLAN COMMITTEES FOR PARK SPORT.
AND REMEMBERS VIVIDLY TALKING ABOUT A, A FACILITY SIMILAR.
SO JUST TO PUT THAT INTO PERSPECTIVE YEAH.
AND THEY'RE NOW PROPERTY OWNERS IN BAYTOWN AND HOPING THAT WE PUT TOGETHER SOMETHING GOOD.
SO TO, TO HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT NOT REINVENTING IT WELL, BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT WE CAN, IF WE HAVE, UM, INFORMATION ON SOME OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS,
[01:05:01]
CONTACT THEM AND ASK THEM IF THEY'D BE INTERESTED IN AND CONTINUING GIVING INPUT, LIKE YOU SAID, TO SEE IF THERE'S STILL SOMETHING THAT'S NEEDED IN THE FORM OF WHAT WE ENVISION THEN.AND YOU'RE RIGHT, WE PROBABLY DO NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT THESE THINGS ARE TAKING PLACE OR HAVE TAKEN PLACE.
I MEAN, THERE WAS A, THE WHOLE STUDY WAS DONE WHEN YOU SHOWED IT TO ME IN YOUR OFFICE.
I WAS SHOCKED TO SEE THAT IT WAS STILL, STILL AROUND.
AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU ALL TOOK, HAVE TAKEN THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.
AND MR. MAYOR, I'D BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE RESIDENTS OF THIS COMMUNITY HAVE, UH, THE BIGGEST ADVOCATES, UM MM-HMM
THROUGH CLIFF AND HIS PARKS TEAM.
UNDERSTAND, AND I'M SORRY, UNDERSTATEMENT.
UM, I, CLIFF KNOWS THESE STUDIES.
HE KNOWS THE COMMUNITY AND I WILL CERTAINLY TELL YOU THAT CLIFF AND I HAVE HAD VIGOROUS FELLOWSHIP, UH,
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE THOSE DOCUMENTS AND I DO THINK WE HAVE A, A TEAM THAT'S DEDICATED TO BRINGING ALL OF THESE PIECES TOGETHER AS WE, AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
AND, AND MR. REYNOLDS' POINT OF THE, YOU KNOW, BRINGING UP THE STUDY IN 2018, UM, HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, 2020 COVID WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY, UM, EVENT AND IT WOULD BE INTERESTING AS, AS YOU YOU SAY, TO BRING BACK THOSE PEOPLE AND SEE WHERE THEY'RE AT AS FAR AS SINCE THAT STUDY, A LOT HAS HAPPENED MM-HMM
UM, AND IT'LL BE INTERESTING, INTERESTING TO SEE WHERE, WHERE THEY STAND AND WHERE THIS COMMUNITY STANDS TO REALLY GAUGE WHERE THEY STAND, UM, AS OF RIGHT NOW AS IN REGARD TO THIS PROJECT.
UM, SO I'LL JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT, BUT I'D REALLY BE INTERESTED TO KIND OF REALLY KIND OF STEP BACK AND REALLY SEE, UM, IF THOSE PRIORITIES ARE, ARE STILL THERE.
SO ONE OF THE STUDIES WAS IN 2021 THOUGH, CORRECT? ONE OF THE FOCUS GROUPS MM-HMM
THAT WAS DONE WAS AFTER COVID.
THAT'S KIND OF IN THE, KIND OF THE PEAK PERIOD OF COVID.
COUNCIL, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON.
SO COUNCILWOMAN, WELL, I'D LIKE TO GO BACK TO 1990
I'D LIKE TO GO BACK TO 1990 WHEN THERE WAS A STUDY, UH, FROM THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF ARCHITECTS REGIONAL URBAN DESIGN AND ASSISTANCE TEAM THAT DID AN EXTENSIVE STUDY, UM, IN OUR COMMUNITY.
AND IT SAYS WE'RE FEASIBLE RECREATIONAL CULTURAL FACILITIES SHOULD BE COMBINED INTO MULTICULTURAL USE COMPLEXES.
1990 LOTS HAPPENED SINCE THEN TOO, SO YEAH.
BUT WE'VE ALSO EVOLVED AS A CITY AND IF WE DON'T HAVE A, A MULTIPURPOSE VENUE WHEN WE'RE NOW MUCH BIGGER, UM, THERE'S A LOT MORE SPORTS, THERE'S A LOT MORE DIFFERENT SPORTS.
UM, AND SO, UM, IT, AND IT GOES BEYOND THAT.
AND, AND WE'RE NOT HERE TO MAKE THAT DECISION BECAUSE WE WE'RE NOT THERE YET.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE FEASIBILITY STUDY WILL DO.
SO I'M NOT GONNA MAKE ANY JUDGEMENTS AS TO WHAT'S NEEDED OR WHAT'S NOT, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN INTO THAT PART.
WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN INTO THE FEASIBILITY STUDY.
SO FOR US TO PICK APART, LIKE THE YEAR IT STARTED AND THE YEAR IT DIDN'T AND WHAT HAPPENED, AND MAYBE NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE GAVE INPUT AND THINGS HAVE CHANGED.
AND WE CONTINUE TO DO ASSESSMENTS, AND THAT'S WHAT THE FEASIBILITY STUDY WILL DO, IS REASSESS, GET STAKEHOLDER FEEDBACK AND GET US TO WHERE, WHAT WE NEED AS OF RIGHT NOW.
UM, IT, IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.
WE MAY HAVE ADDITIONS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE, JUST AS MANY OTHER, UM, MULTIPURPOSE FACILITIES ARE DOING THAT HAVE FOUND THAT THEY NEED BIGGER SPACE.
UM, BUT WE'LL GET THERE WHEN WE GET THERE.
AND SO I, I THINK WHAT WE'RE JUST LISTENING TO THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW, AND SO I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE WORTHY OF OUR TIME TO SIT HERE AND JUDGE WHAT IS NEEDED AND WHAT IS NOT.
AND I THINK WE'LL BE, UM, WE'LL BE REGULARLY ENGAGING YOU ALL, UH, ON THE PROCESS AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
SO WE'LL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO, UM, YOU KNOW, TO DISCUSS AND GET INTO SOME OF THE DETAILS AND KIND OF CONTINUING, UM, THAT SAME TRAIN OF THOUGHT, UH, LOOKING AT THE SITE, UH, AS WE'RE SHOWING IT HERE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS THERE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA DRAW ON AND KIND OF INCORPORATE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE MARKET STREET, UH, PROJECT, WE HAVE THE ARTS DISTRICT BLUEPRINT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING SOME OTHER UTILITY PROJECTS IN THE
[01:10:01]
AREA.LEE COLLEGE IS DOING THEIR THING.
AND SO THERE ARE FUTURE PHASES OF THIS OVERALL CONCEPT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALREADY KIND OF THROWN AROUND, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DISC GOLF, UH, UH, COURSE AT THE 40 ACRE SITE, UM, LOOKING AT, UM, THE FIELD SPORTS, UH, AT THE, UH, AT THE SITE THERE AND PERHAPS IN OTHER AREAS AND LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO KIND OF HELP IMPLEMENT, UH, THE, UH, COMMERCIAL AND, UM, AND POTENTIALLY RETAIL INVESTMENT ALONG THAT CORRIDOR.
AND IF THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, KIND COME UP, YOU KNOW, THE BUDGET MAY NOT SUPPORT A PARKING GARAGE, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IF WE IDENTIFY THAT WE CAN PURSUE IT, UM, THROUGH OTHER MEANS AND FIGURE OUT, UM, KIND OF HOW WE WANT TO ADDRESS THAT AS WE MOVE ALONG.
ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT, UH, FROM A POLICY STANDPOINT THAT AT SOME POINT DURING THIS PROCESS WE'RE GONNA BRING TO YOU IS AN ECONOMIC IMPACT MODEL TO WHERE YOU ALL CAN SEE EXACTLY WHEN EVENTS OCCUR, WHAT'S THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THOSE EVENTS? HOW DOES SALES TAX INCREASE, HOW DO, UM, UH, HOTEL STAYS INCREASE? AND A LOT OF CITIES DO THIS BECAUSE IT'S NOT GONNA SHOW UP FOR LACK OF BETTER.
WE PUT IT ON THE CASH REGISTERED AT THE, UM, AT THIS FACILITY.
IT'S GONNA SHOW UP IN OTHER AREAS.
AND THAT'LL BE IMPORTANT INFORMATION, I THINK, FOR YOU ALL TO HAVE AND AS YOU KIND OF LOOK AT OTHER DECISIONS AND, UM, OTHER ITEMS DOWN, DOWN THE ROAD.
SO THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT, UM, THAT WE'LL BE LOOKING AT KIND OF MOVING FORWARD.
AND I WANT TO BRIEFLY TOUCH ON KIND OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO, UH, APPROACH THIS MOVING FORWARD.
SOME OF YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH DIFFERENT PROJECT DELIVERY OPTIONS, UH, SOME OF YOU IN PARTICULAR, UM, BUT THE, UH, CONSTRUCTION MANAGER AT RISK, UH, PROJECT DELIVERY APPROACH, UH, DOES PROVIDE, UH, MUNICIPALITIES WITH, YOU KNOW, SOME PROTECTIONS AND SOME, UH, BENEFITS FOR LARGER PROJECTS LIKE THIS.
UM, A LOT OF THE CITIES THAT, UH, WE VISITED, THEY BUILT THEIR FACILITIES THROUGH THIS METHOD.
UM, YOU HAVE THE BENEFITS OF A GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE.
YOU CAN ESTABLISH THAT VISION AND MAKE SURE THE TEAM, WHEN THEY RESPOND TO THE PROCUREMENT REQUESTS, THAT THEY DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY GET IT.
UM, YOU CAN ALSO CONTROL THE SCHEDULE, UH, HAVE, UM, SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE FOR PROJECT CONTROL, UH, PROJECT QUALITY CONTROL AND DESIGN.
AND OF COURSE, THE RISK IS MITIGATED FOR THE CITY, UH, THROUGH THIS PROCESS AS WELL.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA LOOK FOR A TEAM THAT COVERS ALL OF THESE ROLES THAT YOU SEE HERE.
AND, YOU KNOW, AS I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, THE OPERATIONAL FOCUS AND EXPERTISE IS GONNA BE A HUGE PART OF THIS, UM, OF THIS PLANNING PROCESS AND THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS.
AND SO AS WE MOVE FORWARD, WE'LL BE BRINGING THOSE THINGS TO YOU ALL WANTED TO JUST KIND OF GIVE YOU THAT HEADS UP AND, UM, KINDA LET YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS GONNA BE THE WAY THAT WE ENSURE THAT WE HAVE A TEAM IN PLACE THAT FOLLOWS THE VISION, THAT UNDERSTANDS WHAT WE WANT AND HOW WE WANT IT.
UM, AND THAT'LL HELP US, UM, IN ACHIEVING THAT.
ON THE VETTING OF THE CMAR FROM CONSTRUCTION MANAGER AT RISK, ARE YOU GONNA VET 'EM ON A POINT SYSTEM OR HOW ARE YOU PLANNING TO POINT VET THEM? NOT HOW YOU D DETERMINED THAT YET.
IT, IT'LL TAKE A FEW WEEKS FOR US TO COME UP WITH THE DOCUMENTS, BUT THAT'LL BE PART OF THAT.
AND, UM, WE'LL HAVE THAT EVALUATION CRITERIA SET UP.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, THEIR FINANCIALS, THEIR, THEIR HISTORY WITH PROJECTS OF THIS SITUA OF THIS MAGNITUDE ALSO.
AND, UH, THEIR, THEIR LOCAL RECOMMENDATIONS BECAUSE WE, WE'D LIKE, I'D LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A SITUATION WE HAD BEFORE WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE A FINANCIALLY SOUND CONTRACTORS, SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THESE WERE FINANCIALLY SOUND PEOPLE.
SO MY QUESTION IS, IF WE DIDN'T DO CMAR CONSTRUCTION MANAGER AT RISK, WHAT WAS THE OTHER OPTION OF, AND ALSO, AND I'M ASKING THIS QUESTION SO THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC WOULD KNOW MM-HMM
THE DIFFERENCE AND THE BENEFITS OF GOING THIS ROUTE? WELL, THERE ARE A FEW OTHER DIFFERENT PROJECT DELIVERY METHODS.
UM, I THINK THE TRADITIONAL, UH, BID PROCESS MM-HMM
UM, YOU KNOW, IS OBVIOUSLY ALWAYS AVAILABLE.
UM, BUT IT DOESN'T ALLOW US THE, UH, IT DOESN'T PRESENT US THE SAFEGUARDS AND THE GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE, UH, THAT WE WOULD HAVE, UM, BECAUSE
[01:15:02]
THE CONTRACTOR NECESSARILY WOULDN'T SHARE THE RISK AS THEY WOULD IN THIS SCENARIO.AND FRANK, I DON'T KNOW IF, UM, I KNOW WE WENT THROUGH THIS A FEW TIMES, BUT IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE, UM, ANY OTHER DELIVERY METHODS YOU MIGHT WANNA TOUCH ON? UM, YES.
SO THE OTHER OPTION IS DESIGN, BID, BUILD.
WHICH, UM, YOU HIRE AN ARCHITECT, THEY DESIGN THE WHOLE THING, PRODUCE FINAL PLANS, YOU PUT THAT OUT TO BID, UH, CONTRACT CONTRACTORS BID ON IT.
UH, YOU GENERALLY HAVE, YOU SELECT THE LOW BID, LOWEST QUALIFIED BIDDER, UM, AND THEN CONTRACTOR BUILDS IT.
SO THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS YOU'RE NOT PICKING THE BEST CONTRACTOR.
YOU'RE PICKING THE CONTRACTOR WITH THE MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS.
AND YOU GET INTO A LOT OF, UH, ISSUES WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE BEST CONTRACTOR.
UH, WITH CMAR YOU CAN PICK THE CONTRACTOR BASED ON QUALIFICATIONS AND NEGOTIATE THE PRICE.
AND WE, WE DID USE THIS ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY FACILITY, UM, AND I THINK IT TURNED OUT VERY WELL.
UM, WE PICKED, UH, WE HIRED AN ARCHITECT.
THEY DID, UH, ABOUT 30% DESIGN.
AND THEN WE PUT OUT, UM, YOU KNOW, REQUEST FOR QUALIFICATIONS FOR A A, A CMAR AND, UH, SELECTED BASED ON THE QUALIFICATIONS.
UH, THAT PROJECT IS ABOUT A $70 MILLION PROJECT, HAD VERY FEW CHANGE ORDERS.
UH, THE QUALITY OF WORK WAS VERY GOOD.
I THINK THE, THE TENANTS ARE, ARE HAPPY WITH IT.
UM, IT WAS PROBABLY THE LEAST, UM, A PROJECT WITH THE LEAST PROBLEMS FOR THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY.
I HAVE A LOT MORE PROBLEMS WITH SMALLER PROJECTS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, JUST A LOW BIDDER AND YOU, YOU CAN'T PICK THE CONTRACTOR, UH, YOU KNOW, LOW BID.
YOU, YOU TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET.
WELL, UM, THERE IS ANOTHER METHOD.
UM, SO THERE'S, UH, DESIGN BUILD, WHICH IS KIND OF SIMILAR TO SEAMAR, UM, WHERE YOU HIRE THE TEAM OF THE ARCHITECT AND THE, UH, CONTRACTOR TOGETHER.
UNFORTUNATELY, UH, CITY OF BAYTOWN CANNOT USE THAT METHOD.
IT'S, UH, STATE LAW THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A POPULATION OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND OR MORE TO USE THAT.
UM, I WOULD HOPE, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD CHANGE ONE DAY.
BUT THAT, THAT IS ANOTHER GOOD METHOD.
UM, ANOTHER METHOD THAT, YOU KNOW, FOLLOWS THE GENERAL DESIGN BID BUILD, UM, WHERE YOU DON'T PICK THE ABSOLUTE LOWEST BIDDER, YOU CAN DO SOMETHING CALLED COMPETITIVE SEAL PROPOSALS.
AND YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU UH, BASICALLY GO THROUGH THE DESIGN PROCESS, THE, UH, AND, AND PUT IT OUT TO BID.
UH, BUT INSTEAD OF JUST LOOKING AT THE LOW BID, YOU CAN CONSIDER OTHER FACTORS.
UM, SO THERE'S ADVANTAGES TO TO THAT AS WELL.
THERE, THERE ARE DIFFERENT METHODS, BUT UM, THIS ONE WE HAVE HAD GOOD SUCCESS.
LIKE SAY WE'VE USED IT ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY FACILITY.
SO KIND OF MY EXPERIENCE WITH A LITTLE DIFFERENT WITH THOSE HAS ALSO BEEN THE, THE GMP, WHICH IS THE GROSS MAXIMUM PROFIT, WHICH THAT, THAT'S A TERRIBLE WAY TO GO.
'CAUSE THEY JUST KEEP CHANGING ON YOUR DEATH.
JUST LIKE BASICALLY WHEN SOMEONE HAS THE LOW BIDDER, THEY MAKE UP THEIR MONEY ON CHANGE ORDERS, THEY CHANGE ORDER YOU TO DEATH.
AND THAT IS, THAT IS A HUNDRED PERCENT GONNA HAPPEN.
THAT CMAR, WHICH IS, WE CALL IT C YOU KNOW, THE CMAR PER C APPROACH IS WHAT MAJORITY OF HOSPITALS USE.
UM, I KNOW SJRA SAN CENTER RIVER AUTHORITY IS GOING TO CMAR AND THEIR NEW ON THEIR NEW, UH, FACILITY AND THEIR NEW WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS THAT THEY'RE DOING AND THEIR NEW, UH, SOME OTHER PROJECTS THEY HAVE.
IT'S WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING BECAUSE NOT TRYING TO KNOCK ANY OF YOUR ANYBODY ON STAFF, BUT THE PROFESSIONALS ARE, THEY, THEY, THEY, THAT'S THEIR SPECIALTY.
THEY KIND OF KNOW A LITTLE BIT.
IT MAKES YOUR JOB A LITTLE BIT EASIER WHERE YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO BABYSIT CONTRACTORS WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
ANOTHER ADVANTAGE IS THAT DURING THAT PROCESS, SO THE CONTRACTOR IS HIRED BASICALLY AT ABOUT 30% DESIGN.
SO THE CONTRACTOR CAN HAVE INPUT ON THE DESIGN BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE ARCHITECTS DON'T ALWAYS KNOW WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO CONSTRUCT SOMETHING.
SO YOU GET THE TEAM TOGETHER WHERE THE CONTRACTOR IS GIVING INPUT ON THE DESIGN WHILE IT'S BEING DESIGNED.
AND SO YOU GET A BETTER PRODUCT AND A MORE CONSTRUCTIBLE PRODUCT.
ARE WE GONNA GET THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF IT? THE MIDDLE OF IT, OR AT THE END OF IT? AT THE BEGINNING, MIKE, I LET HIM KNOW THAT THAT WAS NOT A WORD TO BE USED WITH THIS BOARD.
[01:20:01]
NOT PICKING ON THE FRAME EVERY STEP FOR ANYBODY OR MEMBER OF STAFF, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.IT'S GENERALLY ABOUT, UH, 60% DESIGN.
YOU HAVE TO DESIGN ENOUGH OF THE PROJECT THAT CONTRACTOR KNOWS WHAT HE'S GONNA BID BUILD, YOU KNOW WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT.
WITH THE HOTEL, WE GOT OUR GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE FOUR TIMES WHAT? SIX MONTHS AFTER IT WAS BUILT.
EVERY TIME WE HAD A MEETING, EVERY TIME WE HAD A MEETING, THE GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE INCREASED.
AND THEN AFTER IT WAS ALL SAID AND DONE, THEN WE GET A GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE.
I'M NOT IN CONSTRUCTION, BUT I THINK I COULD DO THAT.
THAT THAT IS, IT BETTER NOT BE THE PLAN.
THAT THAT'S NOT HOW THE PUBLIC SAFETY.
I WE'LL, I WE'LL KIND OF HELP HELP YOU OUT ON THAT ONE.
THAT, THAT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS A HOTEL.
YEAH, A HOTEL AND APARTMENT COMPLEXES ARE THE BIGGEST CHANGE ORDERS YOU'LL EVER SEE BECAUSE WE SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD 'EM.
WE, THEY ALWAYS CONSTANTLY THE SAME PROCESS THAT WE SHOULD HAD AT.
THEY CONSTANTLY CHANGED CARPETS AND LAURA FIXTURES AND ALL KINDS OF STUFF.
AND IT'S LIKE EVERY TIME WE HAD A MEETING, THAT NUMBER CHANGED AND NOT TO OUR BENEFIT HOTEL.
SO JUST KIND OF LOOKING AT OUR NEXT STEPS.
SO WE'RE GONNA BE, WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE WITH THE, UH, PROCESSES THAT ARE, UM, THAT ARE ONGOING NOW.
UH, BRENT, WHAT'S THE GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE? I'M JUST KIDDING.
GB UM, WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE DOWN, UH, DOWN THE ROAD ON, ON THESE PROCESSES AND IN THE END WE WANT A PROJECT AND, UH, AND A FACILITY THAT, UH, YOU ALL, UH, AS COUNSEL AND THE PUBLIC, UM, AND EVERYONE INVOLVED TO END UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ALL BE PROUD OF, UM, POINT TO AS, UH, AS, AS A SUCCESS AND AS A TRUE AMENITY FOR THE CITY.
SO, UM, THAT'S OUR GOAL AND WE INTEND TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OTHER ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
UM, UH, AND HEARING, UH, UNLESS THERE ARE ANY OBJECTIONS, THIS IS KIND OF WHERE WE'RE GONNA MOVE AND, UH, YOU'LL BE, UH, YOU'LL BE SEEING, UH, ITEMS KIND OF, UH, AS WE GO.
COUNCILWOMAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING THAT TOGETHER.
UM, EXCITED THAT THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE UP HERE AT THE, AT THE WORK SESSION AND THAT THE COMMUNITY NOW CAN SEE THAT WE ARE AT THE VERY, VERY BEGINNING STEPS.
WE WANT THEIR INVOLVEMENT AND UH, WE'VE, WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR THE END.
UH, MY QUESTION IS, DO YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE A TIMELINE ON WHEN THAT ENVIRONMENTAL STUDY IS COMING BACK ON? UM, WHAT IS EVEN BUILDABLE AT THE LOCATION THAT, THAT WE CHOSE? I THINK WE'RE A COUPLE WEEKS OUT ON IT.
WE TALKED ABOUT IT THE OTHER DAY AND UH, THEY WERE WAITING ON A FEW THINGS.
I THINK WE'RE A COUPLE WEEKS OUT OF IT.
UH, ONCE WE GET THAT, WE CAN CERTAINLY SHARE THAT.
AND THEN, UM, HOW LONG ARE WE OUT DO YOU THINK? AND I KNOW YOU'RE JUST, UM, GIVEN ESTIMATES, I UNDERSTAND THAT I'M NOT GONNA GONNA HOLD YOU TO THAT AND THE PUBLIC SHOULDN'T EITHER.
DO YOU HAVE AN ESTIMATE ON THE FE THE COMPLETE FEASIBILITY STUDY? WELL, FEASIBILITY STUDY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE DONE THAT WITH HYUNDAI.
I THINK, UM, WHAT I'M HEARING, OR MAYBE, MAYBE NOT, TELL ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT, UH, IN LOOKING AT ENGAGING THE STAKEHOLDERS, ENGAGING THE PUBLIC AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE DESIGN PROCESS.
AND SO WHAT WE'RE GONNA END UP WITH IS MORE OR LESS AN UPDATED PRO FORMA FOR OPERATIONS BASED ON WHAT WE'RE GONNA BUILD AND LOOKING AT, UM, YOU KNOW, HOW THAT'S GONNA PLAY OUT OVER TIME.
UH, THE PROGRAMMING, ALL OF THOSE THINGS AS WE DESIGN, WE PLAN FOR AND WE BUDGET OR MAKE BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR, UM, IN TERMS OF, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD NECESSARILY HAVE ANOTHER FEASIBILITY STUDY, BUT I THINK THAT DESIGN AND, UM, THAT FORMA WOULD PROBABLY GET TO WHAT, WHAT IT IS YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT.
I THINK, SO THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT THAT WE SIGNED WITH LEE COLLEGE, WHERE THEY WERE IN AGREEMENT WITH LOOKING AT A FEASIBILITY STUDY THAT WAS, THAT WAS THEIR, THAT WAS THEIR BUILDING FEASIBILITY SITE JUST ON THEIR OKAY.
THAT'S WHAT THEY WANTED TO LOOK AT THEIR BUILDINGS TO SEE IF THEY WANTED TO PUT SOMETHING, HOW THAT WOULD BE INCORPORATED.
UM, I GUESS I'M TRYING TO CREATE SOME KIND OF ESTIMATED TIMELINE WITH IF THE ENVIRONMENTAL STUDY COMES BACK AND WE START GETTING THE COMMUNITY ENGAGED IN UPDATING THE PROFORMA, UM, COULD YOU GIVE ME ANY KIND OF TIMELINE ON ANY OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE DISCUSSED TODAY? YEAH, SURE.
UM, SO LIKE I SAID, I THINK WE'RE A COUPLE WEEKS COMPLETE ESTIMATES.
UH, I THINK WE'RE A COUPLE WEEKS OUT ON, UM, ON, ON THE, UH, GEOTECH AND THE RESULTS THERE.
UM, DEVELOPING THE, UH, PACKAGE, UH, FOR R-F-P-R-F-Q PROCESS
[01:25:01]
PROBABLY, I'M JUST GONNA SAY THREE, FOUR WEEKS.UM, GOING THROUGH THAT, THE NOTICES PROBABLY ANOTHER, ANOTHER MONTH OR TWO TO RECEIVE AND EVALUATE.
UM, ONCE THAT TEAM'S ON, UM, THEN WE KIND OF PICK UP ON THE DESIGN PHASE AND MOVE FORWARD THERE.
I, I DON'T KNOW KIND OF HOW WE WOULD END UP RIGHT THERE, BUT I CAN CERTAINLY AS WE, AS WE START TO MOVE THROUGH THAT, UH, R-F-P-R-Q PROCESS AND GET THE TEAM IN PLACE, WE CAN, WE CAN HELP ON THE NEXT STEPS THERE.
BUT YEAH, I'D SAY WE'RE PROBABLY, UM, A COUPLE MONTHS OUT FROM REALLY IDENTIFYING THAT TEAM.
AND UM, THIS IS THE LAST THING I'VE, AND, AND I MAY HAVE MISSED THIS.
I'VE HEARD SEVERAL TIMES THAT WE'RE GOING TO, UM, SPEAK WITH CITIZENS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND GET MORE INPUT.
DO WE HAVE ANY SPECIFIC, 'CAUSE WHAT I DIDN'T HEAR IS THE SPECIFIC WAYS WE'RE GONNA DO THAT, THAT THAT'S GONNA BE THROUGH THE STUDY GROUPS, JUST THROUGH THE STUDY STUDY GROUP.
BUT IS THAT STAFF CALLING PEOPLE THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN INVOLVED OR Y'ALL WILL, COUNCIL WILL DICTATE HOW THAT'S SET UP.
COUNCIL WILL DICTATE HOW THAT'S SET UP.
THAT WHAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH AS ANY ENTITY, ANY ENTITY HAS TO BE CAREFUL WITH IS YOU JUST OPEN A DOOR TO, HEY, WHAT DOES EVERYBODY WANT? THEN IT COULD BE LIKE JUST THIS PLETHORA, LIKE HERE'S THE GENERAL IDEAS THAT HAVE BEEN STUDIED OVER THE PAST, YOU KNOW, DECADE PLUS OF WHAT THEY WANT.
UM, HERE ARE POSSIBLE OPTIONS THAT CAN GO DO THESE LOOK GOOD, DO THESE NOT LOOK GOOD? AND IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE VERY UM, UH, IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE FACILITATED WELL SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST WILLY-NILLY, YOU HAVE THIS FULL GAMBIT OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE COUNCIL.
'CAUSE THEN YOU COULD OVERWHELM EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED TO CONSIDER AND, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BALLOON INTO THIS MASSIVE COST.
AND THE REASON I WAS ASKING IS JUST I'VE BEEN WELCOMING A LOT OF IT.
THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE VERY INTERESTED RIGHT.
SO I WAS EXCITED THAT THIS WAS ON THE WORK SESSION AGENDA TONIGHT SO THAT, UM, PEOPLE CAN REALLY SEE EXACTLY WHERE WE'RE AT.
AND IT'S, IT'S THE BEGINNING, BUT I, WE'RE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA ASK US HOW THEY GET INVOLVED AND, AND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
UM, AND WE'LL, WE'LL BRING THAT TO Y'ALL.
[c. Discuss possible future options for development, management and operations of the hotel and Bayland Island area. ]
NOW WE HAVE TWO C AND WE'RE NEEDED TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION, RIGHT? YES, SIR.AS STAFF WENT OVER THIS, UH, ITEM THIS MORNING, WE REALIZED THAT THERE WERE, UH, PROPRIETARY LEGAL REAL ESTATE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE DISCUSSED.
SO THOSE ITEMS ARE TYPICALLY TAKEN IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
THAT'S PROBABLY HOW WE SHOULD HAVE HAD IT ON THE AGENDA IN THE FIRST PLACE.
BUT TYPICALLY WE DISCUSS THOSE TYPES OF ITEMS BEFORE WE HAVE ANY SORT OF PUBLIC DISCUSSION.
WELL I ASKED THAT QUESTION SO THAT EVERYONE WOULD KNOW WE'RE NOT TRYING TO DO ANYTHING UNDERHANDED OR HIDE ANYTHING.
UM, WHENEVER WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
I REALLY DON'T LIKE TO CHANGE IT INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION BECAUSE I DON'T WANT ANYONE THINKING THAT.
BUT WITH THAT, WITH THAT, UM, EXPLANATION, WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
UM, PUBLIC NOTICE IS GIVEN THAT IN ADDITION TO ANY EXECUTIVE SESSION LISTED ABOVE, THE CITY COUNCIL RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ADJOURN INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AT ANY TIME AS AUTHORIZED BY THE TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE SECTIONS 5 5 1 7 1 5 5 9 TO DISCUSS ANY OF THE MATTERS LISTED ABOVE.
IT IS NOW 5:34 PM WHAT HAPPENED GOING INTO THIS? I NOW RECONVENE IN OUR OPEN MEETING OF THE BAYTOWN CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION AND ANNOUNCED THAT IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 5 5 1 0.102 OF THE TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE, NO ACTION WAS TAKEN IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
NOW SINCE WE HAVE EXHAUSTED EVERYTHING.