* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] YOU HAVE THAT I NOW [ CITY OF BAYTOWN NOTICE OF MEETING CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 2025 5:00 P.M. COUNCIL CHAMBER, CITY HALL 2401 MARKET STREET, BAYTOWN, TEXAS 77520 AGENDA CALL TO ORDER AND ANNOUNCEMENT OF QUORUM ] CALLED TO ORDER CALL TO ORDER THE CITY COUNCIL WORKS SESSION THURSDAY, APRIL 10TH, 2025. COUNCIL CHAMBER, CITY HALL, BAYTOWN, TEXAS SEVEN SEVEN FIVE TWO OH AND CALL ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE QUORUM AT 5:02 PM WE'RE GOING TO OPEN IT UP FOR CITIZEN COMMENT. DO WE HAVE ANYONE TO SPEAK? OKAY, THEN WELL, IF NOT, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO TWO A DISCUSSIONS, REVIEW AND DISCUSS POLICIES, PROCEDURES, AND PROCESSES ASSOCIATED WITH THE CREATION OF AN ETHICS COMMISSION AND ETHICS COMPLAINT PROCESS. MS. MAYOR, WE MOVE WITH THE S UH, PRESENTATION FIRST AND WE'LL COME BACK, FOLLOW THE, UH, THE ETHICS. OKAY, WE CAN DO THAT. WE'RE GONNA TAKE TWO A AND TWO B OUT OF ORDER AND GO WITH TWO B. DO I NEED TO GET A VOTE FOR THAT? OKAY. SO TWO B, DISCUSS AND [b. Discuss and receive a presentation on the Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone (TIRZ) and the Baytown Redevelopment Authority (BRA), including their roles, financial structure, ongoing projects, and potential impacts on economic development within the city.] RECEIVE A PRESENTATION ON THE TAX INCREMENT REINVESTMENT ZONE AND THE BAYTOWN REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, INCLUDING THEIR ROLES, FINANCIAL STRUCTURE, ONGOING PROJECTS, AND POTENTIAL IMPACTS ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE CITY. MR. MORAN. THANK YOU. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. BRIAN MORAN, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MANAGER, UH, THIS AFTERNOON. SPEND A FEW MOMENTS OF YOUR TIME, UH, WALKING THROUGH HOW THE TAX INCREMENT REINVESTMENT ZONE AND THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY ARE WORKING HAND IN HAND WITH, UH, THE CITY TO DRIVE INVESTMENT, IMPROVE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE, AND BUILD A BETTER BAYTOWN. UM, ON THE AGENDA, UH, FOR THE PRESENTATION, UM, I'LL TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE HISTORY AND BACKGROUND, UM, WHAT THE TOURS IS, WHAT IT STANDS FOR, UM, HOW IT WORKS, UM, THE ROLE, THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY PLAYS, UH, THE POWERS AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF BOTH ENTITIES. AND THEN TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE KEY PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN FUNDED, UM, THROUGHOUT THE DURATION OF SPECIFICALLY TOURS ONE, AND THEN LASTLY, UH, TALK ABOUT WHAT'S NEXT AND THE OPPORTUNITIES AHEAD. AND WITH THAT, UH, BACK IN 2001, YOUR PREDECESSORS ON THE COUNCIL, UM, RECOGNIZE THE OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, REALLY SEIZE LONG-TERM GROWTH, UM, IN UNDEVELOPED AREAS OF BAYTOWN. SO UNDER CHAPTER THREE 11 OF THE TEXAS TAX CODE THAT ALLOWS CITIES TO CREATE, UM, REINVESTMENT ZONES. AND, UH, BAYTOWN DID TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT STATE LEGISLATION AND CREATED TURS NUMBER ONE. UH, SHORTLY AFTER IT DID CREATE THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY TO MANAGE AND OVERSEE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND PROJECTS, UM, IDENTIFIED IN THAT ZONE. UM, WHEREAS TURS ONE, UH, REALLY FOCUSED ON GREENFIELD SITES WHERE LARGE, UH, VACANT UNDEVELOPED TRACKS OF LAND, UM, THAT HAD, YOU KNOW, GREAT POTENTIAL FOR DEVELOPMENT, BUT REALLY LACKED, UM, THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE TO SUPPORT THAT DEVELOPMENT. UM, WHEN T TWO WAS CREATED IN 2023, UM, REALLY THE VISION KIND OF EXPANDED TO FOCUS ON, UM, IMPROVING, UM, REDEVELOPMENT AND REVITALIZATION OF THE OLDER AREAS OF BAYTOWN, UM, WITH THE EMPHASIS ON, UM, YOU KNOW, IMPROVING, YOU KNOW, AGING INFRASTRUCTURE, VARIOUS VACANT BUILDINGS, AND THE ECONOMIC DISINVESTMENT IN THOSE AREAS. UM, THE PUR PURPOSE OF BOTH ZONES IS TO TRACK PRIVATE INVESTMENT, UH, CATALYZE REDEVELOPMENT, UH, MODERNIZE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND REALLY IMPROVE THE OVERALL QUALITY OF LIFE OF OUR RESIDENTS. AND THE BEST PART ABOUT THIS IS THIS TOOL DOESN'T RELY ON, UH, RAISING TAXES BECAUSE IT TAKES THE REINVESTMENT AND NEW GROWTH, UM, AND PLACES IT RIGHT BACK, UM, INTO THOSE IDENTIFIED ZONES. SO WHAT EXACTLY, UM, IS THE TURS? IT'S A DESIGNATED, UM, DESIGNATED AREA IN FINANCING MECHANISM. UM, SO AS THE PROPERTY VALUES INCREASE OVER TIME, UM, THIS DIFFERENCE FROM THE BASE YEAR VALUE WHEN THE TURS IS CREATED AND VERSUS THE, UM, CURRENT VALUE OVER TIME KNOWN AS THE INCREMENT IS CAPTURED AND THEN PLACED INTO A SPECIAL ACCOUNT, UM, ELIGIBLE PROJECTS, UM, THAT THE TURS CAN FUND, INCLUDE ROADS AND SIDEWALKS, UM, DRAINAGE, WATER SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS, UH, PUBLIC PARKS SPACES, UM, FACILITY UPGRADES, ACCESSIBILITY, UM, PARKING, AND ANY OTHER TYPE OF SHARED INFRASTRUCTURE THAT A DEVELOPMENT, UM, MIGHT NEED. UM, EACH TURS HAS A BOARD OF DIRECTORS, UM, THAT IS APPOINTED, UM, BY THE CITY COUNCIL. OTHER TAXING DISTRICTS DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE WHEN A ZONE IS CREATED. UM, AND FOR EXAMPLE, IN TUR NUMBER ONE, HARRIS COUNTY DID ELECT TO PARTICIPATE, UM, WHICH IS WHY, UH, THEY DO HAVE A, AN [00:05:01] APPOINTEE THAT SERVES ON, ON THAT BOARD. SO, JUST A QUICK RUNDOWN OF, OF THE PROCESS IS THE CITY DESIGNATES A A ZONE SPECIFIC AREA. THE BASE YEAR, UM, SETS, UH, THE PROPERTY VALUE AS NEW DEVELOPMENT OCCURS. AND AS PROPERTY VALUES INCREASE AND RISE, UM, THAT INCREMENT IS THEN CAPTURED AND THEN IS REINVESTED BACK INTO THE ZONE FOR PUBLIC PURPOSES AND PUBLIC INTENT. AND, YOU KNOW, IS, CAN BE THOUGHT OF AS A SELF-FINANCING TOOL WHERE THE GROWTH PAYS FOR THE GROWTH AND THEN ENCOURAGES, UM, YOU KNOW, REINVESTMENT WITHOUT PLACING ADDITIONAL, UH, BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYERS. SO THIS COMES THE ROLE OF THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY. SO IT REALLY SERVES AS THE OPERATIONAL ARM AND ENGINE, UM, BEHIND THE TOURS, AND IT TAKES, UH, THE PROJECTS AND IDEAS AND CONCEPTS AND BRINGS THAT INTO REALITY. SO THIS IS ALSO, UH, CREATED BY THE CITY UNDER TEXAS LAW. IT, THE BAYTOWN REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY IS ALSO A LOCAL GOVERNMENT, UH, CORPORATION THAT OPERATES SOLELY ON BEHALF OF THE CITY AND ALSO DOES NOT LEVY, UM, ANY TYPE OF ADDITIONAL TAXES AND, YOU KNOW, RESPONSIBILITIES THAT IT HAS. UM, DOESN'T INCLUDE ANYTHING FROM MANAGING DESIGN, ENGINEERING, CONSTRUCTION TO OVERSEEING, UM, BUDGETS AND TIMELINES, UH, COORDINATING WITH VARIOUS CONSULTANTS, AND THEN ALSO REGULARLY REPORTING TO, UH, THE T BOARD, UH, AS WELL AS THE CITY COUNCIL. UM, AS A LOCAL GOVERNMENT CORPORATION, THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, UM, DOES HAVE A BROAD SET OF POWERS, UM, TO IMPLEMENT PUBLIC PROJECTS ON BEHALF OF THE CITY. UM, EVERYTHING INCLUDING FROM INFRASTRUCTURE TO TRANSPORTATION, UM, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT RELATED INITIATIVES, AS WELL AS HOUSING. UM, IT ALSO CAN IMPROVE ITS OWN PROFESSIONAL SERVICES CONTRACTS. IT CAN ISSUE BONDS, UM, WITH, UH, CITY, CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL. IT DOES. IT ALSO HAS THE ABILITY TO ENTER INTO DIFFERENT TYPES OF PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENTS, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, A JOINT VENTURE. AND IT DOES HAVE MORE FLEXIBLE, UH, PROCUREMENT PROCESSES. UNLIKE OUR, UH, TRADITIONAL, UM, MUNICIPAL PROCUREMENT PROCESSES, THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, AS I MENTIONED, MAY ISSUE, UH, TAX EXEMPT BONDS TO HELP FUND LARGE INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS. UM, THESE BONDS ARE BACKED, UM, BY THE EXPECTATION OF FUTURE TAX, UH, INCREMENT REVENUE. UM, IN ADDITION TO THE INCREMENT REVENUE OF THE BRA CAN ALSO, UH, LEVERAGE, UH, REVENUE BASED BONDS, UM, IF IT'S MANAGING A FACILITY. A FEW KEY POINTS ABOUT THE BONDS IS THAT THEY MUST BE APPROVED, UM, BY COUNSEL BEFORE, BEFORE BEING ISSUED. UM, THEY ARE NOT A LEGAL, UM, OBLIGATION, UM, OF THE CITY. THE REPAYMENT EITHER COMES FROM THE REVENUE THAT'S BEEN IDENTIFIED, REVENUE STREAM THAT'S BEEN IDENTIFIED, UM, OR SPECIFICALLY THE INCREMENT, UH, UM, FROM THE, THE ZONE THAT'S CREATED AND NOT THE CITY'S GENERAL FUND. UM, HOWEVER, THE CITY DOES HAVE A STRONG INTEREST IN MAKING SURE OF THE, THE FINANCIAL VIABILITY OF ANY ZONE THAT IS CREATED. UM, THE INCREMENT CAN ALSO, THAT IS GENERATED IN EACH ZONE, CAN BE USED ON A CASH, UM, CASH FUNDING BASIS, UM, TO, TO, UM, PAY FOR THOSE IMPROVEMENTS, UM, OVER THE DURATION OF THE ZONE. SO WHILE THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY AND TURS, UM, DO OFFER, UM, YOU KNOW, POWERFUL AND FLEXIBLE FUNDING AND FINANCING MECHANISMS, UM, IT DOES REQUIRE CLOSE COORDINATION, UM, WITH THE CITY COUNCIL. UM, STRUCTURALLY, THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY MEMBERS, UM, DO ALSO SERVE, UM, AS THE TS BOARD IN THIS CASE FOR NUMBER ONE. UM, JUST ENSURING ALIGNMENT FROM PLANNING, UM, TO THE EXECUTION, UM, OF THE PROJECTS. UM, AS YOU KNOW, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL CURRENTLY SERVES AS THE TOURS NUMBER TWO, UH, BOARD OF DIRECTORS. AND SO HOW I THINK OF HOW EACH OF THE THREE ENTITIES INTERACT IS CAN BE SIMILAR TO A, A TEAM PROFESSIONAL SPORTS TEAM, WHERE REALLY THE CITY COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, SERVES AS THE HEAD COACH, SETTING THE TONE, VISION AND STRATEGY, UM, OR AS THE TOURS BOARD, YOU KNOW, SERVES AS A TEAM CAPTAIN, UM, PROVIDING GUIDANCE, UH, TO THE PRIORITIES AND RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE PROJECTS, AND KEEPING, KEEPING THE PLAYERS, UM, ON TRACK. AND THEN THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY REALLY ARE, UM, THE TEAM MEMBERS THAT ARE ON THE FIELD EXECUTING THE PRIORITIES AND PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED. UM, THIS, UH, COLLABORATION IS FORMALIZED THROUGH WHAT'S CALLED A TRI-PARTY AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY, THE T BOARD, AND THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY. AND THE AGREEMENT IS SIMPLY JUST OUTLINES THE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES THAT EACH ENTITY HAS AND HOW THE FUNDS ARE MANAGED. AND THEN I DID PROVIDE, UM, A HANDOUT OF THE, [00:10:01] KIND OF THE, THAT SUMMARIZES THE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES THAT EACH ENTITY PLAYS. UM, TO KIND OF HIGHLIGHT, YOU KNOW, HOW THIS IS A COLLABORATIVE MODEL WHERE THE CITY ESTABLISHES THE ZONE, DEFINES THE VISION, UM, RETAINS FINAL APPROVAL ON MAJOR INITIATIVES, UH, WHERE THE TS BOARD IS THE RECOMMENDING BODY, UM, WHERE IT RECOMMENDS THE BUDGET AND THE PRIORITIES TO ALIGN WITH THE CITY'S OVERALL STRATEGY. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, LASTLY, THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY BEING THE, UM, ENTITY HANDLING THE EXECUTION. UH, TURS NUMBER ONE, UH, INITIALLY BACK IN 2001, STARTED WITH 350 ACRES AT A BASE VALUE OF 51.3 MILLION. UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOW A LITTLE OVER, I THINK, 2000 WITH THE CURRENT VALUE, UM, HOVERING AROUND 400 MILLION. UM, A THE FINANCE, THE PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN HAS BEEN AMENDED, UM, EIGHT TIMES TO MEET THE EVOLVING, UM, PRIORITIES. UM, OVER TIME, HARRIS COUNTY CONTINUES TO BE A LONG-TERM PARTNER. UH, HOWEVER, THEIR PARTNERSHIP IN TUR NUMBER ONE IS SET TO EXPIRE IN 2030. CHAMBERS COUNTY HAS ALSO BEEN, UM, A PARTNER AND SPECIFICALLY HAS CONTRIBUTED, UM, IF YOU LOOK ON, ON YOUR SCREEN IN THE BLUE AREA OFF OF 1 46 AND KILGORE TO THE KILGORE PARKWAY PROJECT. UM, AND THEN FOR T NUMBER TWO, UM, IT COVERS, UH, APPROXIMATELY ABOUT 4,000 ACRES WITH A BASE VALUE OF 389.8 MILLION. UM, AND IT FOCUSES ON RE, YOU KNOW, REVITALIZING, UM, UNDERSERVED AREAS IN BAYTOWN. AND THIS ZONE, UM, WILL EXPIRE IN, UH, 2052. WE DO, AS YOU CAN SEE ALSO ON THE SCREEN, KIND OF A LIST OF PROJECTS. UM, THIS IS SPECIFICALLY REGARDING TOUR NUMBER ONE THAT HAVE BEEN FUNDED. UM, E EVERY TOUR OP, AS I MENTIONED, UM, OPERATES UNDER A PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN, WHICH IS A LIVING, BREATHING DOCUMENT. UM, REALLY SERVES AS THE, THE BREAD AND BUTTER FOR THET BOARD AS THE GUIDING PRINCIPLE FOR THE PROJECTS AND OUTLINES THE FUNDING STRATEGIES, UM, FOR EACH OF THE PROJECTS. UM, THET BOARD DOES PROVIDE THE RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, TO COUNSEL, AND THEN THE FINAL APPROVAL DOES COME BEFORE YOU FOR CONSIDERATION. UM, THE PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN CAN BE AMENDED, UM, YOU KNOW, AS MANY TIMES AND AS, UH, DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES ARISE. UM, SO IT DEFINITELY GIVES US THE FLEXIBILITY TO STAY NIMBLE AND RESPONSIVE TO, UM, COMMUNITY AND DEVELOPMENT NEEDS. AND THEN HERE'S, UH, JUST KIND OF A LIST OF, OF WHAT'S, WHAT'S UPCOMING. AND SO WE DO NEED TO FILL SOME OF THE VACANCIES, UM, EXPIRED TERMS. THE NEW MEMBERS WILL GO THROUGH, UM, A MUCH MORE COMPREHENSIVE AND DEEPER DIVE, UM, AND GET THEM CAUGHT UP TO SPEED. UM, WE DID SOLICIT PROPOSALS FOR A MARKET AND FEASIBILITY ANALYSIS. THIS WAS ON THE REQUEST OF HARRIS COUNTY. UM, AS I MENTIONED, THEIR PARTICIPATION IN THE ZONE ENDS IN 2030 FOR NUMBER ONE. UM, THEY'RE ALSO POTENTIALLY INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT PARTICIPATION INTS NUMBER TWO, BUT PART OF THEIR, PART OF THEIR REQUEST WAS, WAS US TO COMPLETE THIS STUDY. UM, WE'RE ALSO IN THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW OF MODERNIZING THE GUIDELINES FOR, UH, CITY'S TS. UM, THIS WAS LAST UPDATED TO MY KNOWLEDGE IN 2023. UM, THE REVISIONS WERE PROVIDE MUCH MORE CLEAR AND CURRENT, UH, FRAMEWORK FOR DEVELOPMENT AND, UH, REINVESTMENT, UH, AS WE MOVE FORWARD. UM, THEN, UM, UH, THERE IS ONE, YOU KNOW, FROM AN AWARENESS, YOU KNOW, STANDPOINT AND FOR YOUR INPUT IS TO, TO TO THINK ABOUT IF THE CITY COUNCIL WANTS TO CONTINUE SERVING, UM, AS A BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR T NUMBER TWO. UM, THIS, YOU KNOW, OR DOESN'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, DELEGATE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE RESPONSIBILITIES, UM, TO THE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY IN T NUMBER ONE, TO STREAMLINE OPERATIONS. UM, AND THAT GUIDANCE WILL KIND OF HELP STAFF, UM, AS WE PLAN AND PREPARE, UM, FOR THE FUTURE. AND THEN ALSO JUST DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES. UM, THERE HAS BEEN INTEREST IN A COUPLE OF DEVELOPERS, UM, AND PROJECTS THAT THEY'RE POTENTIALLY SEEKING FOR TR SUPPORT. UM, THESE PLANS HAVE NOT YET, ARE NOT CURRENTLY IN, UM, EITHER OF THE PROJECT AND FINANCING PLANS. AND SO THE, UH, TOURS BOARD WOULD NEED TO REVIEW THOSE PROPOSALS AND PROVIDE A RE A RECOMMENDATION, UM, FOR COUNCIL'S CONSIDERATION. AND WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. I KNOW THIS IS A LOT OF INFORMATION VERY QUICKLY, BUT I DO KNOW THAT, UM, THERE'S ANOTHER PRESENTATION AFTER ME. ANY QUESTIONS? I HAVE A QUESTION. YES, MA'AM. UM, IF YOU GO BACK, UM, TO THIS CLASS Y NOPE, THIS ONE. OKAY. SO WHAT DOES THAT LAST BULLET ACTUALLY MEAN? UM, SO [00:15:01] WOULD FOR T TWO, WOULD COUNCIL NO LONGER BE THAT HEAD COACH FOR, UM, NO. YOU'RE, SO CURRENTLY YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD, YOU'RE SERVING AS, UM, THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS MM-HMM . UM, WHICH, WHICH YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY, BOARD OF DIRECTORS, HEAD COACH TEAM. YES. YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY TO DO MM-HMM . UM, BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO, YOU KNOW, PLANNING FOR, FOR MEETINGS, YOU KNOW, YOU DO HAVE A BOARD THAT ALREADY EXISTS AND, YOU KNOW, DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR THEM TO HOLISTICALLY, UM, TAKE A LOOK AT BOTH ZONES AS THEY'RE, UM, PROVIDING RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, YOU KNOW, TO COUNCIL? GOT IT. YOU NO, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, I, I REMEMBER WHEN WE CREATED TS TWO, I BELIEVE. I MEAN, WE WERE INITIALLY MADE THE BOARD OF THAT JUST 'CAUSE IT WAS A BRAND NEWTS. AND I THINK THERE WAS SOME, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW. I REMEMBER THE DISCUSSION ON WHY WE WERE GONNA BE THE BOARD INITIALLY. MAYBE IT WAS JUST SET UP THE INITIAL, I CAN ANSWER THAT. THE INITIAL ACREAGE. OKAY. YEP. SO YES, THAT, THAT'S CORRECT. THE COUNCIL WAS SET UP AS THE BOARD FORT TWO, UM, UNTIL WE WERE ABLE TO DETERMINE A FULL PATH TO TAKE WITH TURS TWO MM-HMM . BECAUSE WE KNEW FOR MANY YEARS THERE WAS NOT GONNA BE A, UM, A GROWTH, UM, IN TURS TWO. AND SO WE NEED TO SET SOME PARAMETERS ON WHAT WE WANTED TO IDENTIFY. UH, BRIAN'S PLAN, I THINK THE ONE BEFORE THIS, ON THE SPENDING PLAN, BRIAN, YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE FOR TURS TWO AS WELL, BUT THERE, THERE WAS GONNA BE MORE DISCUSSION AS VALUE WAS GONNA BE STARTED TO BE CREATED INTRS TWO, UH, THAT YOU WOULD THEN DETERMINE WHERE DO WE NEED TO FOCUS ON SO THAT THIS, THE COUNCIL TURS BOARD, ORTS TWO BOARD COULD SAY, HEY, THESE ARE GONNA BE OUR STRATEGY AND FOCAL POINTS GOING FORWARD ONCE WE KNOW THERE'S GONNA, MONEY'S GONNA START COMING INTO TS TWO. RIGHT? AND SO IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OFT TWO, THERE'S GOING TO BE GROWTH GOING ON IN IN THAT AREA, BUT IT'S GONNA TAKE A FEW YEARS. RIGHT NOW, THE, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S AVAILABLE FORT TWO IS $12,000. YEAH. I MEAN, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO MUCH WITH $12,000. SO IT'S, IT'S KIND OF SITTING ON, IT'S KIND OF SITTING ODDLY BY AND BUILDING A LITTLE BIT OF VALUE BEFORE WE START PLAYING, UH, UH, WITH THE, THE, UH, STRATEGIES. AND SO THAT WAS THE INTENT. WE DIDN'T WANNA WASTE BOARD MEMBERS TIME, UH, ELECTING SOMEBODY TO A BOARD AND JUST SITTING THERE DOING NOTHING WHILE IT BUILT VALUE. AND SO THE COUNCIL WAS WILLING TO JUST SERVICE THE BOARD MEMBERS UNTIL WE GOT, UNTIL WE GOT THERE. SO IF WE, IF WE COMBINE THE TWO BASE, I, I GUESS WE CAN USE THE SAME BOARD MM-HMM . AS BOTH. YOU COULD OVER BOTH, RIGHT? YEAH. UM, SO AS FAR AS, 'CAUSE I AGREE, I DON'T WANNA BE WASTING THEIR TIME, BUT I MEAN, IF WE COMBINED THEM, WE WOULDN'T WASTE THEIR TIME AS FAR AS, THERE JUST WOULDN'T BE AGENDA ITEMS RELATED DET TWO. THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. UM, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF COMBINING 'EM, UM, AND TURNING OVER THAT BOARD FROM US TO THEM. I, I, I VALUE HAVING THAT EXTRA INPUT. I MEAN, LOOKING AT THIS CHART YOU GAVE US, I MEAN, ULTIMATELY IT'S STILL, IT WILL STILL COME TO US AS A RECOMMENDATION MM-HMM . SO I, I THINK HAVING THAT, THAT ADDITIONAL, YOU KNOW, INPUT AS A RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE USEFUL. COUNCIL MEMBER GRAHAM, UM, BUT IT IS A CHOICE TO ALSO HAVE ANOTHER BOARD THAT ONLY SERVES TS TWO, CORRECT? YES. OKAY. SO WHEN I WAS LISTENING TO YOU, I KNOW YOU SAID THAT IT, YOU'RE WANTING INPUT FROM US TO WHETHER TO STREAMLINE IT, UM, AND JUST REPEATING YOU EITHER STAYING, WE STAY THE BOARD OR WE COMBINE THEM, BUT IS THERE SOME KIND OF BENEFIT, UM, FOR SETTING UP A BOARD, JUST FORTS TWO, SINCE TS ONE, ANDT TWO ARE SO DIFFERENT. I, I KNOW RIGHT NOW WITH THE, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY BEING LOW AND MAYBE NOT, UH, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THINGS TO CONSIDER OR, BUT WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE TO MOVE AWAY FROM HAVING ONE BOARD FOR BOTH AND THEN CREATING A SEPARATE BOARD FOR TUR TWO IF WE FEEL THE NEED THAT WE NEED A MORE, UM, DISTINCT, A MORE DISTINCTION BETWEEN TURT ONE AND TWO, RIGHT? YEAH. YOU, YOU CAN HAVE, YOU KNOW, AN, YOU KNOW, TUR TWO CAN HAVE ITS OWN, UM, BOARD MEMBERS SERVING IN THAT CAPACITY, BUT WE COULD CHANGE IT LATER IS WHAT I'M, YEAH. OKAY. I MEAN, AND THAT, I MEAN, I WANNA DEFER TO, TO SCOTT, BUT, BUT I BELIEVE YES, YOU, YOU CAN DO THAT. YES. WE'RE DEFERRING QUESTION. SHE WAS ASKING IF WE DECIDED TO HAVE TUR ONE SERVE OVERT ONE AND TUR TWO AT A LATER DATE, COULD WE CREATE A BOARD SPECIFICALLY FOR TUR TWO? CERTAINLY. AND I DON'T, I, I'M LEARNING ALL OF THIS RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WOULD EVEN BE NECESSARY. I JUST, YOU NEVER KNOW. UM, AND THEN MY OTHER QUESTION, AM I REMEMBERING CORRECTLY, DIDN'T WE EXPAND TUR TWO AT SOME POINT? [00:20:01] DID WE ADD TO IT? WE, WE EXPANDED, UH, ACTUALLY T NUMBER ONE IN, OH, WAS T ONE IN 2023 TO INCLUDE, UH, THE, UH, FIDELIS PROPERTY. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I, 'CAUSE I REMEMBER VOTING ON THAT, SO, OKAY. THAT WAS ALL I HAD. WELL, I ASKED JASON SOMETIME AGO TO BRING THIS UP ON AN AGENDA SO THAT WE COULD UNDERSTAND BETTER WHAT TURS DOES AND THE BENEFIT OF IT AS OPPOSED TO A RIS. UM, I WAS ALSO LEANING TOWARDS US NOT BEING THE BOARD FOR THE TURS FORTS TOO. UH, I THINK IT'S A BETTER LOOK AS, UM, CITIZEN INVOLVEMENT AND LIKE ALL OTHER BOARDS, THINGS COME TO US FOR THE FINAL DECISION AFTER THEY GIVE THE RECOMMENDATION. SO THANK YOU FOR GETTING THIS ON THE WORK SESSION. DO WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, CONCERNS? OH, I'M SORRY. NO, THAT'S OKAY. JUST ONE LAST COMMENT. AND, UM, I, I DO APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THIS BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE BEEN QUESTIONS FROM PAST BOARD MEMBERS AND, AND, AND NOT REALLY UNDERSTANDING THE FOCUS, UH, AND WHAT THEY WERE DOING. AND SO I DID HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH JASON ABOUT THIS AND ENSURING THAT AS WE EITHER APPOINT NEW MEMBERS OR, UM, GO BACK TO THE EXISTING BOARD AND KIND OF REFRESH, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE TS ONE HAS BEEN IN EFFECT. AND SO IT'S ALWAYS WORTH GOING BACK AND, AND KIND OF TALKING TO THOSE BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT'S CHANGED, WHAT'S NEW, AND ESPECIALLY NOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, BE OVERSEEING TS TWO AS WELL. AND SO I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT TIME TO GO BACK AND, AND JUST KIND OF TOUCH BASE WITH ANY EXISTING, UH, UHT MEMBERS, BUT ANY NEW ONES THAT COME IN AS WELL. DEAL. ANYONE ELSE? THANK YOU, MR. MORAN. NOW WE WILL [a. Review and discuss policies, procedures, and processes associated with the creation of an Ethics Commission and ethics complaint process.] GO BACK UP TO TWO A REVIEW AND DISCUSS POLICIES, PROCEDURES, AND PROCESSES ASSOCIATED WITH THE CREATION OF AN ETHICS COMMISSION AND ETHICS COMPLAINT PROCESS. MS. CAROL FLINT. GOOD EVENING. I'M NOT AS TALL. ALL RIGHT. UM, WELL, COUNSEL, I'M HAPPY TO BE BEFORE YOU TO BRING THE ETHICS DISCUSSION TO YOU. UM, I AM GOING TO START OFF WITH JUST A BIT OF A TIMELINE. SO TODAY, WANT TO KIND OF WALK AWAY, WALK THROUGH AT A HIGH LEVEL, UM, THE PROCESS. AND I CALL THIS KIND OF ORDINANCE IN ACTION, RIGHT? WE HAVE A LOT OF ORDINANCES ON THE BOOK, BUT IT'S WHEN SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN, WE ENGAGE THE OR ORDINANCE, UM, THAT WE GET REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IT IS AND HOW IT'S FUNCTIONING. SO I'M GONNA GIVE A QUICK OVERVIEW OF THAT ORDINANCE IN ACTION, AND THEN REALLY FOCUS IN ON A COUPLE OF KEY ITEMS TONIGHT THAT WILL HELP US PULL TOGETHER AN ORDINANCE TO BRING BACK FOR YOUR REVIEW. I WILL TELL YOU, UM, HAVING SPENT THE PAST SEVERAL DAYS TRYING TO PUT THIS PRESENTATION TOGETHER, UM, IT CAN BE A LITTLE OVERWHELMING, THE NUMBER OF PARTS AND PIECES AND, AND RABBIT HOLES AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT YOU CAN COME UP WITH. SO, UM, WE'RE GOING TO TRY REALLY HARD TO STICK TO A COUPLE OF KEY ITEMS TODAY. UM, WE WILL HAVE FULL DISCUSSION, UH, WITH THE ORDINANCE. YOU'LL SEE THE WHOLE PROCESS, ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, UM, AS WE MOVE FORWARD. SO THE NEXT THING WILL BE TO COME BACK IN TWO WEEKS AT OUR NEXT COUNCIL WORK SESSION, BRING THAT PROPOSED ORDINANCE AGAIN, HAVE SOME MORE DISCUSSION AROUND THAT AND THE PROCESS, GET SOME MORE FEEDBACK, AND THEN, UM, HOPEFULLY BE ABLE TO BE PREPARED ON MAY 8TH TO BRING BACK AN ORDINANCE TO COUNCIL FOR YOUR FINAL REVIEW AND ADOPTION. THIS HAS BEEN PUT TOGETHER WITH THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE WANT TO MOVE THIS FORWARD. WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE TWO COMPLAINTS THAT ARE OUTSTANDING. SO WE WANT TO BE CONSIDERATE OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOW, UM, IN A PENDING STATUS. SO TRYING TO MOVE THIS IN, IN AN EFFICIENT AND FAST MANNER, BUT AT NO POINT DO WE WANT TO RUSH THIS, AND AT NO POINT IS THE MAY 8TH, UM, YOU KNOW, AN AN ABSOLUTE KIND OF THING. SO IF WE GET INTO THIS AND FIND WE NEED SOME MORE TIME, CERTAINLY WE WILL, UM, TAKE THE TIME TO HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS AS WELL. SO, UM, SO WITH THAT, JUST AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL, AGAIN, WHEN I SAY THIS ORDINANCE IN ACTION, IT, IT'S REALLY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A COMPLAINT IS FILED. AND SO JUST KIND OF A HIGH LEVEL LOOK AT THAT. SO THE COMPLAINT IS FILED. THE FIRST STEP IS REALLY KIND OF REVIEWING THAT INITIAL COMPLAINT, MAKING SURE THAT EVERYTHING IN THERE, UM, IS FULLY COMPLETED. TYPICALLY, THERE'S A FORM. [00:25:01] UM, AND I'LL TELL YOU, I I LOOKED AT FIVE OTHER CITIES, SO I KIND OF PULLED AND ASSESSED A LOT OF STUFF, AND I'LL BRING, PRESENTING YOU WITH SOME DIFFERENT THINGS THAT I SAW FROM THESE OTHER CITIES FOR YOU TO CONSIDER. UM, SO WITH THAT, THIS PROCESS, THERE'S USUALLY THIS PROCESS. IT COMES IN, IT'S RECEIVED, IT'S REVIEWED STRICTLY FOR COMPLETENESS, THAT KIND OF, ALL THE SECTIONS ARE FILLED OUT, ALL THE INFORMATION THAT'S NEEDED TO MAKE AN ASSESSMENT AND MOVE IT FORWARD. ALL OF THAT IS THERE. SO IT'S JUST A VERY PROCEDURAL ADMINISTRATIVE KIND OF REVIEW. THEN IT GOES INTO A PRELIMINARY REVIEW. AND THIS IS MORE OF A PLACE WHERE THEN IT'S LOOKED AT IS IT ACTIONABLE OR NOT ACTIONABLE. THAT BEING ACTIONABLE MEANS IT ALLEGES THINGS THAT FALL, UH, UNDER THIS ETHICS ORDINANCE. SO IT COULD BE THINGS LIKE IF YOU PUT IN PLACE, UM, COMPLAINTS HAVE TO BE FILED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE KNOWN ALLEGATION, AND IT'S FILED SIX MONTHS LATER, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE REVIEWED THAT'S NON-ACTIONABLE. AND SO IT WOULD NOT MOVE FORWARD. COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE, UM, AND A COMPLAINT IS FILED BECAUSE COUNCIL MEMBER SO-AND-SO WAS AT A PUBLIC EVENT AND DIDN'T SHAKE MY HAND, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT ACTIONABLE. THAT'S NOT GONNA FALL UNDER THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. OTHER THINGS ARE GOING TO COME THROUGH THAT FALL UNDER THE ORDINANCE THAT BECOMES ACTIONABLE. AND THAT JUST SIMPLY MEANS IT GOES TO THE NEXT STEP IN THE PROCESS, WHICH IS KIND OF THAT INVESTIGATION AND OR HEARING, UM, STEP. AND THEN ONCE THAT STEP IS COMPLETED, WHATEVER THAT DECISION IS, WHETHER IT'S, UH, A DISMISSAL OR SOME SORT OF SANCTIONS, UM, THAT RECOMMENDATION AND THEN WOULD COME BACK. AND OF COURSE, COUNSEL HAS THE FINAL ACTION. OKAY. SO THAT'S JUST VERY HIGH LEVEL KIND OF THE, THE PROCESS OF SAY OF WHAT HAPPENS ONCE THE COMPLAINT IS FILED. SO IT'S, WHAT I WANNA DO IS I WANT TO, UM, WALK THROUGH A COUPLE OF PIECES. AGAIN, THERE'S A COUPLE OF, UH, PLACES WHERE I WANT TO GET SOME, UM, FEEDBACK AND GUIDANCE FROM Y'ALL SO THAT WE CAN KIND OF START CRAFTING THAT ORDINANCE TO BRING BACK TO YOU. SO THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENS, LIKE I SAID, IS A COMPLAINT GETS FILED, AND THE FIRST QUESTION IS, WHO CAN IT BE FILED AGAINST? UM, AND SO CURRENTLY THIS IS WHO IN OUR ORDINANCE IT CAN BE FILED AGAINST. SO, UM, IT'S THE MAYOR, THE COUNCIL BOARD MEMBERS, OUR JUDGES, THE CITY MANAGER, UM, AND THEN IT GOES ON TO LIST A, A NUMBER OF OTHER EMPLOYEES, UM, AND WRAPS IT UP WITH, UH, ALL DIRECTORS AND ASSISTANT DIRECTORS, BASICALLY IS WHAT IT SAYS. SO THAT IS A QUESTION THAT Y'ALL NEED TO CONSIDER IS, YOU KNOW, WHO IS COVERED. THERE ARE SOME OF THE ORDINANCES THAT I READ FROM OTHER CITIES. IT ONLY APPLIES TO THE CITY COUNCIL, THAT'S IT. SOME AS CITY COUNCIL AND CITY MANAGER. UM, SOME OF THEM ALSO APPLY IT TO FORMER MEMBERS, COUNCIL MEMBERS, FORMER BOARD MEMBERS. UM, AND THAT IS REALLY DRIVEN AROUND THE IDEA OF A CONFIDENTIALITY PIECE. SO COUNCIL OR BOARD MEMBERS MAY HEAR SOMETHING CONFIDENTIAL RIGHT BEFORE THEY, YOU KNOW, MOVE OFF OF THE, THE BOARD. UM, AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S THAT PIECE. THE OTHER PIECE IS I SAW A COUPLE OF PLACES WHERE, UM, THERE'S A RESTRICTION FOR LIKE A YEAR. IT'S ALMOST LIKE A NON-COMPETE CLAUSE, THAT, UH, A FORMER MEMBER COULDN'T COME BACK AND REPRESENT, UH, A BUSINESS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BEFORE COUNCIL OR FOR BUSINESS WITH THE CITY. THAT SORT OF THING IS WHERE THAT FORMER MEMBER PIECE COMES IN. UM, DON'T SEE THE OTHER EMPLOYEES, UM, IN OTHER ORDINANCES VERY MUCH. UH, I WOULD TELL YOU FOR US, OF COURSE, OUR, OUR CHARTER STATES THAT EMPLOYEES, UM, FALL UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE CITY MANAGER. HE ULTIMATELY HAS, UM, THE FINAL SAY ON THAT ANYWAY. AND THEN WE HAVE THE POLICY AND PROCEDURES FOR OUR EMPLOYEES, UM, AS WELL. SO WITH THAT, UM, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO Y'ALL TO KIND OF HAVE SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT, UH, THE RIGHT, THE DIRECTION ON, ON WHO YOU WANT THIS ORDINANCE TO APPLY TO. CAN WE GO AHEAD AND HEAR THE REST OF IT AND THEN COME BACK TO THAT? SURE. WOULD Y'ALL BE OKAY WITH THAT? INSTEAD OF GOING PIECE BY PIECE? YOU WANNA RUN OUT OF TIME? YEAH, BECAUSE I, I'M THINKING IF WE GO PIECE BY PIECE, WE MAY RUN OUT OF TIME. YEAH. YEP. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO [00:30:01] THE OTHER P PART OF THE COMPLAINT BEING FILED IS WHAT IT IT APPLIES TO, RIGHT? SO THE, WHAT FALLS INTO TO TWO BUCKETS. ONE IS THE IDEA OF PRINCIPLES, WHICH, WHICH ARE USUALLY ASPIRATIONAL. THEY'RE KIND OF THOSE GLOBAL EXPECTATIONS THAT ARE SET FORTH BEFORE COUNCIL'S, BOARDS, THAT SORT OF THING. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO THE STANDARDS, WHICH REALLY ARE THE, THE MANDATES, THE RULES, THE VIOLATION KIND OF THINGS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I SAW WITH, UM, THE PRINCIPLES IS THERE'S SOME REAL LANGUAGE AROUND THOSE. SO YOU HAVE A BETTER SENSE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. SO FAR, BAYTOWN, THESE ARE THE PRINCIPLES THAT WE HAVE, UH, IN OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE. AND SO IT'S REALLY AROUND THE, THE PUBLIC TRUST AND, UH, YOU KNOW, RESPECT IN THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. WHAT I SAW IN OTHER ORDINANCES, OH, I'M SORRY, . OKAY. WHAT, UM, I SAW IN SOME OF THE OTHER ORDINANCES, AND, AND I'LL TELL YOU REALLY, IN ALL OF THE ORDINANCES, THOSE ASPIRATIONAL PRINCIPLES ARE INCLUDED IN THERE. THEY'RE JUST KIND OF THOSE OVERARCHING GUIDING PRINCIPLES. UM, BUT WHAT SOME OF THE OTHER ORDINANCES DID HAVE ARE THESE STATEMENTS WHERE IT'S VERY CLEAR THOSE PRINCIPLES ARE ABOUT GUIDANCE ONLY. THEY'RE ASPIRATIONAL. THEY ARE NOT TO BE USED FOR THE BASIS OF A COMPLAINT. UM, SO IT KIND OF MAKES A VERY CLEAR DELINEATION BETWEEN THE, THIS IDEA OF YOUR, YOUR PRINCIPLES AND EXPECTATIONS VERSUS YOUR MANDATES AND YOUR RULES. SO THEN IF WE MOVE ON, UM, WITH, LIKE I SAID, THAT OTHER PART OF THE, WHAT THE STANDARDS, THESE ARE KIND OF THOSE BASIC LEGAL TENANTS. SO THEY ARE FORMED AND BASED OFF OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODES. UM, A MADE KIND OF A, A, LET ME, LET ME SAY, I, UH, TOOK A LIST , UM, THAT WAS, THAT WAS, UH, LISTED OUT ON A-A-T-M-L PRESENTATION OF, OF KIND OF THOSE LEGAL TENETS THAT ARE VERY STANDARD ACROSS ETHICAL GUIDELINES, UM, AND ALL. SO THE OTHER PART OF THIS THAT I'LL SHOW YOU IS THESE ARE TWO OF OUR, UH, STANDARDS OF CONDUCT. YOU CAN SEE THEY, THESE TWO COME STRAIGHT FROM THE PENAL CODE AND THEY'RE REFERENCED STRAIGHT BACK TO THE PENAL CODE. A DIFFERENT WAY TO DO THOSE IS TO SPELL THOSE THINGS OUT WITHIN YOUR ORDINANCE. AND, UH, CITIES DO BOTH OF THOSE WAYS. SO SOMETIMES IT'S, IT'S THAT STRICT LANGUAGE OF THAT REFERS YOU BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE DOCUMENT, WHETHER IT'S THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, UM, OR THE PENAL CODE. UH, MANY OF THEM GO AHEAD AND SPELL THOSE THINGS OUT, BUT I WILL TELL YOU, OVERALL, THEY'RE ALL PRETTY FOCUSED ON THOSE BASIC LEGAL TENANTS. UM, IT CLEARLY UP TO COUNCIL, IF Y'ALL WANNA STICK WITH THAT, IF YOU WANNA ADD IN SOME OTHER THINGS AS WELL. UM, AND THEN, LIKE I SAID, THE NEXT STEP IS ONCE THE COMPLAINT IS ACTUALLY FILLED OUT, THEY, THEY FILED THE FORM, UM, THAT COMES TO THE CITY CLERK. YOU KNOW, THAT IS U THE USUAL PLACE FOR, UH, THE REPOSITORY OF RECORDS AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO THE ACCEPTANCE OF THAT TO PUT IT INTO THE PROCESS AND SEND IT TO WHICHEVER APPROPRIATE PLACE THAT IS, UM, WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE WITH THAT, THAT REVIEW OF COMPLETENESS, JUST LIKE I SAID EARLIER, IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT, IS THE FORMAT FILLED OUT COMPLETELY? HAVE THEY CLEARLY DOCUMENTED WHICH PART OF THE RULE THAT THEY HAVE VIOLATED THAT, THAT SORT OF THING. UM, WITH THIS, REGARDLESS OF IF THE FORM IS FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK OR ANYBODY ELSE, UM, ANYWHERE, THOSE ARE PUBLIC RECORDS, UM, THEY, IT BECOMES BUSINESS OF THE CITY AND IT'S CONSIDERED A PUBLIC RECORD. SO, UM, SO THAT'S THE REVIEW AS A COMPLETENESS. AND THEN, UM, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PRELIMINARY, UH, REVIEW TONIGHT. UM, PART [00:35:01] OF WHAT HAS TO BE ANSWERED THERE IS THE WHO BUT OF LOT THAT IS VERY MUCH CONTINGENT ON THE WHO YOU ULTIMATELY DECIDE FOR THE INVESTIGATION. UM, SO ONCE IT GETS DOWN TO THIS COMPLAINT HAS BEEN FILED, FORM IS COMPLETE, THE ALLEGATIONS FALL UNDER, UM, THE VI VIOLATIONS LISTED IN THE CODE OF ETHICS, UM, THEN IT'S GONNA GO TO THE INVESTIGATION AND OR A HEARING. UM, AND, AND THAT'S, UH, SOME GO TO A HEARING, SOME CITIES USE HEARINGS, SOME CITIES USE INVESTIGATIONS. SO, UM, THAT PROCESS CAN BE DETERMINED, BUT IT'S WHO DOES THAT THAT WE REALLY NEED TO TALK ABOUT TODAY SO THAT WE CAN KIND OF ALSO SET THAT UP IN THE ORDINANCE. SO THOSE, UM, OH, AND THEN, UM, ALSO THE REPRESENTATION WITHIN THE HEARING AND INVESTIGATION PHASE, UM, IS ANOTHER DECISION THAT COUNSEL WILL NEED TO MAKE. SO THOSE ARE THE PIECES I HAVE FOR YOU TO DISCUSS TONIGHT. UM, SO I'LL GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING. THANK YOU. SO WE'RE GONNA TAKE A LOOK AT WHO THESE COMPLAINTS CAN BE AGAINST. AND YOU SAID RIGHT NOW OTHER EMPLOYEES ARE NOT LISTED IN OURS. I'M GONNA SAY IT STOPS AT DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS OR EQUIVALENT POSITIONS. WHAT WOULD BE AN EQUIVALENT POSITION TO AN ASSISTANT DIRECTOR? ASSISTANT CHIEF. OKAY. ALTHOUGH, I WILL SAY THE NEXT LINE SAYS THAT 1 43 EXEMPTS, UM, POLICE AND FIRE. BUT THAT WOULD, THAT'S THE FIRST, CLEARLY THE FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MY HEAD. UM, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD THAT'S NECESSARILY EQUIVALENT TO AN ASSISTANT DIRECTOR. I THINK IT'S JUST IN CASE WE CAME UP WITH NEW TITLES OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER. OKAY. BUT I WOULD STRONGLY ADVOCATE THAT EMPLOYEES JUST BE COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM THIS PERIOD. I WOULD AGREE. YEAH, I AGREE. ALL EMPLOYEES JUST, JUST, UH, EMPLOYEES. YEAH. I'M TRYING TO CLARIFY HOW ARE WE DEFINING EMPLOYEES? BECAUSE YOU'RE AN EMPLOYEE. THAT'S CORRECT. CITY. SO YOU'RE SAYING COUNCIL, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MYSELF. I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT'S WHAT I'M, I'M SAYING IT SHOULD APPLY TO CITY MANAGERS AND DEPARTMENT HEADS. WELL, THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING HOW WE DEFINING EMPLOYEES. RIGHT. AND NOT EVEN, I'LL JUMP IN. I THINK IT SHOULD APPLY TO COUNCIL, THE CITY MANAGER, THE JUDGES MM-HMM . AND THEN THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. 'CAUSE WE EITHER HIRE OR APPOINT THOSE INDIVIDUALS, SO THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE TO US. YEP. IT'D BE HARDER FOR SOMEBODY LOWER THAN THAT TO MAKE, TO MAKE DETERMINATIONS. I AGREE WITH TAKING DEPARTMENT HEADS, ASSISTANT DEPARTMENT HEADS, AND REGULAR STAFF LEVEL EMPLOYEES OUT BECAUSE THEY REPORT TO MM-HMM. THE CITY MANAGER MM-HMM . BY CHARTER THAT WE CAN'T HIRE AND FIRE AND DISCIPLINE. THAT'S RIGHT. THOSE INDIVIDUALS OR CHARTER BECAUSE OF CHARTER. SO, SO IF WE KEEP IT TO THE ONES THAT WE CONTROL MAKES MORE SENSE. IT DOES. HE CONTROLS THE OTHERS. AND IF, AND HERE'S, HERE'S THE, THE CATCH BETWEEN TWO AND JA, JASON PROBABLY KICKED ME FOR THIS. IF WE SEE THAT HE'S NOT ENFORCING PROPER ETHICAL ISSUES WITH HIS STAFF, THEN WE CAN DEAL WITH HIM, CORRECT? MM-HMM . RIGHT? AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO FOCUS OUR ATTENTION ON. YEAH. SO EVERYBODY ELSE REPORTS TO HIM. YEAH. NOW THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE THE, THE ATTORNEYS REPORT TO JASON MM-HMM . OKAY. SO THEY EVEN LEFT OUT. BUT I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO KEEP THAT SCOPE OF WHO WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR AND MAINTAIN THE LEVEL OF REVIEW OVER THAT. I, I LIKE THE SUGGESTION OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS ALSO, BECAUSE WE APPOINT 'EM, WE DO, IF WE HAVE FOLKS OUT THERE THAT ARE DOING THINGS THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING MM-HMM . THE QUICKEST WAY FOR US TO DEAL WITH THAT IS WE JUST REPLACE 'EM. BUT, BUT THIS WOULD GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, FOR US TO REVIEW FOR THAT OPTION OR, OR NOT THAT OPTION. I THINK THAT IS A GOOD IDEA. UM, BECAUSE EVEN FOR US, SINCE WE APPOINT COMMITTEE MEMBERS, IT, IT REALLY OPENS UP A DOOR WHERE IF WE JUST SAY, I DIDN'T LIKE WHAT YOU DID, SO I'M GONNA REMOVE YOU. I LIKE THE IDEA THAT IF THERE WAS SOMEONE, OTHER GROUP OR PERSONS THAT FELT LIKE THERE WAS A VIOLATION, THERE WAS STILL A SYSTEM TO GO THROUGH. SO IT'S JUST NOT, WE DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU SAID. NO. THERE'S, THERE'S A SITUATION THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. YEAH. WELL, YEAH. IT MAKES IT MORE FAIR AND, UH, ALIGNED ACROSS THE BOARD. YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE YOU, ON YOUR COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND THAT WE APPOINTED STUFF, THERE'S, THERE IS SOME INFORMATION [00:40:01] THAT THEY GET THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION THAT THEY COULD USE TO, AND FOR MONETARY REASONS. SO YOU KIND OF HAVE TO HOLD 'EM TO THAT SAME STANDARD THAT WE DO. MM-HMM . OKAY. I THINK WE GOT SOME CLEAR DIRECTION ON THAT ONE. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. THE WHAT, UM, AND SO AGAIN, WE HAVE THE, THE PRINCIPLES AND THE STANDARDS. IT'S THE STANDARDS OF CONDUCT. UM, THESE ARE OUR CURRENT PRINCIPLES. UM, AND SO I'M GONNA PAUSE THERE AND LET Y'ALL HAVE CONVERSATION FIRST AROUND THE PRINCIPLES AND WHAT YOU, I GOT YOU. IF YOU WANT ANY CHANGES TO THAT, AND THEN WE WILL, UM, HAVE THE CONVERSATION ON THE STANDARDS COUNCIL MEMBER GRAHAM. SO, UM, WHEN YOU FIRST PUT THESE UP BEFORE YOU HAD, UH, STARTED DISTINGUISHING THE ASPIRATIONAL VERSUS THE ACTUAL, UH, ETHICAL ISSUES, WHEN I FIRST READ THOSE, I THOUGHT THEY WERE VERY SUBJECTIVE. UM, MY, UM, INTERPRETATION OF SOMETHING COULD BE VERY DIFFERENT THAN SOMEONE ELSE'S. AND I KNOW WHEN YOU MOVED FORWARD, YOU DISTINCT, YOU, YOU WERE VERY CLEAR, UM, HERE THAT THESE CAN'T BE THE FOUNDATION OF AN ETHICAL ISSUE. BUT I WILL SAY, IF I WAS, UM, A CITIZEN AND I HAD AN ISSUE, AND I SAW THIS LISTED ON OUR ETHICS TAB, AND I HADN'T JUST BEEN THROUGH A TRAINING WORK SESSION WITH YOU, I WOULD FEEL LIKE THESE WERE TIED TO BEING ABLE TO MAKE THE COMPLAINT. I MEAN, I, I, I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY'RE HERE, BUT I JUST FEEL IN GENERAL, THIS CREATES CONFUSION. UM, IT'S GREAT GUIDANCE. UM, BUT IF I READ THIS AND I WAS UPSET WITH SOMETHING AND, AND I WAS INTERPRETING ONE WAY, I'D SAY, OKAY, THEN I'M GONNA GO IN THERE AND I'M GONNA FILE MY ETHICAL COMPLAINT. AND YOU'VE CLEARLY STATED, THIS CAN'T BE WHAT OUR COMPLAINTS ARE FOUNDED ON. YEAH. AND TO BE CLEAR, I DON'T GET TO, I DON'T, I DON'T GET TO DECIDE ANYTHING BUT , UM, THESE TWO STATEMENTS THAT I HAVE UP NOW, SO THESE ARE TAKEN OUT OF OTHER ORDINANCES. SO THEY ARE ACTUALLY EITHER, I THINK ONE OF THEM FOLLOWS AFTER, UM, THE LIST OF THE ASPIRATIONAL THINGS. AND THE OTHER ONE, THE SHORTER ONE, IS ACTUALLY ON TOP OF THOSE ASPIRATIONAL THINGS, I GUESS. SO WHAT I THINK WOULD BE BETTER, AND I, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD FORMULATE THIS, BUT WHAT I IMAGINE IN, IN MY MIND IS IF A CITIZEN OR, OR SOMEONE IS WANTING TO FILE A COMPLAINT, THERE IS A VERY CLEAR AND CONCISE LIST OF THINGS THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED TO BE INVESTIGATED OR HEARING WHATEVER WE DECIDE, PUTTING ASPIRATIONS AND ALL OF THESE THINGS. I THINK IT JUST CREATES A LARGE WORD SALAD THAT CAN STILL BE INTERPRETED. I THINK THERE SHOULD JUST BE A LIST THAT, MAYOR, IF YOU DON'T MIND, THAT'S BEFORE WE AS CAROL'S ABOUT TO JUMP INTO THIS NEXT PART. WE'VE SPENT TIME DEBATING THIS OURSELVES. OKAY. IN PREPARATION FOR THIS, FOR ME, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR MATT AND THE RESIDENTS TO UNDERSTAND, TO GO BACK TO FEBRUARY 24 AND THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON SUN SETTING, ALL THE COMMISSIONS THAT WE HAD, BECAUSE THIS WAS PART OF THAT CONVERSATION. THESE WERE NOT MEANT TO BE THE BASIS OF A COMPLAINT. THE PRINCIPLES WERE NOT MEANT TO BE THE BASIS OF A COMPLAINT. AND AS WE MOVE INTO THE STANDARDS ON THE NEXT SLIDE, THE STANDARDS ARE VIOLATION OF LAW, RIGHT? SO IF YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE NOT A BASIS FOR A COMPLAINT, AND THE STANDARDS ARE AN ACTUAL VIOLATION OF LAW, AND THERE'S ALREADY A, A PROCESS TO, TO PROSECUTE SOMEBODY THAT VIOLATES THE PENAL CODE OR OTHER STATUTORY PIECES, OKAY? THAT WAS THE BASIS FOR MOVING AWAY FROM THE ETHICS COMMISSION BECAUSE ONE WAS NOT HANDLED. THE OTHER ONE HAS A LAW THAT, THAT, THAT IS ENFORCED BY THAT PIECE. NOW, TWO, THE RESIDENTS CREDIT OF COMING AND SPEAKING TO US, AND, UH, AT OUR LAST MEETING, THERE WERE THINGS THAT POINTED THAT WERE POINTED OUT THAT WE DIDN'T THINK ABOUT AS A GROUP ABOUT HOW THIS CAN BE WEAPONIZED INTO, INTO SOMETHING ELSE. AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE IS A NEED TO FURTHER DISCUSS IT, BUT YOU'RE GONNA SEE ON THE NEXT ONE, IT'S GONNA START CAUSING CONFUSION ON, OKAY, WELL WHAT ARE WE DOING THEN? IF THE LAW'S ALREADY HANDLING ONE SIDE AND THE PRINCIPLE PRINCIPLES AREN'T BEING BEING ENFORCED, RIGHT? THAT'S RIGHT. BECAUSE THERE'S NO, IT'S, IT'S, IT IS VERY SUBJECTIVE. AND THAT'S, THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THE CONVERSATION IN THE PAST. AND IT, IT'S GONNA JUST BE HERE ON THE NEXT SLIDE. . WELL, WELL, THAT, I'M SORRY, MAYOR. I WAS JUST GONNA FINISH WHAT I WAS SAYING. TO ME, ANYTHING THAT WE DO HERE SHOULD BE SOLUTION ORIENTED, RIGHT? THERE SHOULD BE AN, AN ENDING TO WHATEVER WE'RE DOING. AND JUST PUTTING WORD SALADS UP THERE JUST TO APPEASE, THAT'S KIND OF GOES BACK TO THE AD HOC THING AND, AND EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE SAYING, LIKE, LET'S JUST TIE IT TO THE PENAL [00:45:01] CODE. AND IF WE START MAKING A LIST OF THINGS, WE WILL NEVER, WE WILL HAVE A NEVER ENDING LIST. IT WILL ALWAYS BE SOMETHING THAT, OH, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT. BUT THAT IS A VIOLATION, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT THE LAW, IF YOU'RE BREAKING THE LAW, IT'S CUT AND DROP. RIGHT. AND JUST TO, TO BE FAIR, RIGHT, WE, WE SEE THAT THE REASON THAT THE, THE VIOLATION OF PENAL CODE MAY BE IN HERE IS BECAUSE WE CAN'T GUARANTEE THAT A DISTRICT ATTORNEY IS GOING TO PROSECUTE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED LOW LEVEL CRIME. MM-HMM . RIGHT? UM, AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO RESIDENTS. DON'T THROW ANYTHING AT ME. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY MAKES CHOICES ALL THE TIME ON WHAT THEY'RE GONNA PROSECUTE, OKAY? MM-HMM . AND THEY MAY NOT PROSECUTE THAT. SO THAT GIVES THE COUNSEL THE AUTHORITY TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE, HEY, THEY BROKE THE LAW HERE. IT'S PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE CHARGED, BUT WE CAN INVESTIGATE IT ON OURSELVES AND MAKE A DETERMINATION. THAT'S RIGHT. NOW, THEY'RE STILL, THEY STILL GET DUE PROCESS THROUGH ALL THAT. BUT I'M NOT SAYING THAT CORRECTLY. YEAH. I, I WOULD JUST ADD COUNSEL THAT IT ALSO, UM, GIVES YOU SOME GUIDANCE UNDER THAT CHARTER PROVISION THAT SAYS YOU'RE THE ULTIMATE DECISION MAKER FOR, BUT COUNSEL BEHAVIOR, UM, CONCURRENT WITH ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE PRO PROSECUTED BY MYSELF OR BY THE CHAMBERS OR HARRIS COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, UH, YOU COULD ALSO TAKE ACTION MM-HMM . THAT, UH, IS ABOUT WHAT IS HERE IN THIS ROOM, IN THESE CHAIRS YES. THAT YOU'RE SITTING IN. AND THAT WOULD BE SEPARATE AND APART FROM ANY CRIMINAL ACTION OR ANY CIVIL ACTION THAT MIGHT ARISE FROM BAD BEHAVIOR. AND THAT BEING SAID, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BEHAVIOR, I, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANYONE HERE THAT WOULD DO THIS. WOULD, LET'S SAY SOMEONE GOT UP AND SCREAMED AT SOMEONE WHILE THEY WERE TALKING, I WOULD THINK THAT WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD, UM, THEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT. IF WE ASK THE CITIZENS TO RESPECT US, THEY CAN BE ESCORTED OUT. IF THEY GET OUT OF HAND, WE SHOULD HOLD THE SAME LEVEL OF RESPECT FOR THE CITIZENS AND HOLD OURSELVES ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR OWN ACTIONS. LIKE I SAID, I'M NOT SAYING ANYONE UP HERE WOULD DO THAT, BUT THERE MAY COME A TIME WHERE IT MAY BE NEEDED. MR. MAYOR. YES, SIR. UH, I BELIEVE THAT WILL BE HANDLED UNDER A DIFFERENT ARTICLE, THOUGH. DIDN'T THAT ARTICLE TWO GIVE COUNSEL THE AUTHORITY TO, UH, RECOMMEND YEAH. THAT THAT WOULD BE UNDER A DIFFERENT ARTICLE. THAT'S SO YEAH. SOME, THERE'S, THERE IS LANGUAGE IN ARTICLE TWO THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR IF A COUNCIL MEMBER FEELS THAT WAY. YEAH. BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW. WELL, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT REDOING EVERYTHING. SO, OKAY. WELL, WE'RE, RIGHT NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT ARTICLE THREE, IS THAT CORRECT? I MEAN, ARE WE LOOKING AT JUST ARTICLE THREE RIGHT NOW, OR WE'RE LOOKING AT ARTICLE TWO? WE'RE LOOKING AT, WE'RE LOOKING AT PRINCIPLES. WE'RE LOOKING AT ASPIRATIONS AND MANDATES. WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT ANY CERTAIN ARTICLE RIGHT NOW. AND DOESN'T THIS APPLY TO ARTICLE THREE? CODE OF ETHICS? THE CODE OF ETHICS. CODE OF ETHICS, RIGHT? YEAH. BUT WE'RE LOOKING TO REDO EVERYTHING IN THE CODE OF ETHICS. WE ARE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING. OUR ARTICLE TWO IS NOT IN THE CODE OF ETHICS, IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY. I'M NOT REFERENCING AN ARTICLE RIGHT NOW. RIGHT NOW REWRITING, WE'RE REWRITING THE WHOLE THING, RIGHT? YEAH. BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT CODE. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. THAT'S, IT'S NOT GONNA BE A CODE ANYMORE. WE'RE REWRITING THE WHOLE THING. WE, THAT WHOLE, WHATEVER'S THE RIGHT NOW. OKAY. AND MAYOR, I DERAILED CAROL, CAROL WAS TRYING TO FOCUS ON JUST THE WHO, AND I APOLOGIZE. I UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND. OR THE, UH, THE PRINCIPAL SERGEANT. YEAH. ANY, ANY, ANYONE ELSE ON ASPIRATIONS AND MANDATES OR PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS? I, I, I HAD, I, I THINK ONE THING AGAIN, THAT I MENTIONED IN THE LAST MEETING THAT WILL HELP CLEAR THAT UP IS THAT THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THE APPLICATION, I BELIEVE THAT GIVES JURISDICTION, PARTICULARLY TO THE ETHICS COMMITTEE, SHOULD BE PART OF THIS, SHOULD BE PART OF THIS. UM, THIS, THE WHOLE ETHICS, UH, ORDINANCE. SO IF WE PUT THAT LANGUAGE IN IT, IT TAKES AWAY THE SUBJECTIVITY TO, UM, LIMIT ETHICS COMPLAINT TO THE STANDARD OF CONDUCT WORK WORKS ARE TIED TO PENAL CODES. UM, I LIKED, UH, TO MRS. UH, GRAHAM'S POINT. UM, I THINK THE, THE PRINCIPLES, THE BASIC PRINCIPLES, THEY COULD, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE IT IN THERE, THEY SHOULD BE THERE TO ENHANCE THE CODE VIOLATIONS, BUT NOT AS A, UM, NOT SOMETHING THAT AN ETHICS COMMITTEE WOULD INVESTIGATE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. IT'LL BE AN ENHANCER. MM-HMM . SO COMMENT ON THAT. AND I AGREE, MY COLLEAGUE, I THINK WE OUGHT TO KEEP THE, THE ASPIRATIONAL, [00:50:01] UH, TENETS IN THERE, IF YOU WILL, WITH THE CAVEAT EITHER RIGHT ABOVE IT OR RIGHT BELOW IT. THE, THE GO FLIP TWO PAGES OVER, CAROL, ONE MORE THAT WITH THAT VERBIAGE UP THERE, THAT THIS IS JUST A SIMPLY A GUIDE GUIDANCE OF PRINCIPLES ONLY, AND IT WILL NOT BE SOLELY USED FOR AN ETHICS COMPLAINT, WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT THAT SAYS. MM-HMM . BUT IT SHOWS THE PRINCIPLES THAT WE TRY TO ADHERE TO AS BEST AS WE CAN WITH THOSE IN PLACE. THEN WE'RE GONNA TAKE NEXT STEP. NOW THESE ARE WHAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY FILE AGAINST. AND I LIKE THE VERSION WHERE THE, THE PROPOSED VIOLATIONS ARE ACTUALLY SPELLED OUT BECAUSE IF YOU, IF WE JUST QUOTE PENAL CODES, THEN WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, OKAY, THE AVERAGE CITIZENS NOW GOTTA GO TO THE LIBRARY AND GO ONLINE AND, AND LOOK UP PENAL CODES. AND THAT'S NOT THE SIMPLEST THING TO DO. YEAH. SO IF WE HAVE IT LISTED OUT, AND THEY'RE SPELLED OUT AGAIN, HERE'S THE BASIC PRINCIPLES WE TRY TO ADHERE TO ON A REGULAR DAILY BASIS IN ALL OF OUR LIVES, THAT'S GREAT. THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN COMPLAINT ON. MM-HMM . AND THIS IS THE VERBIAGE THAT'S IN THAT SECTION, UH, SO THAT WE'RE GOOD TO GO. I ALSO AGREE WITH, WITH, UM, THE CITY MANAGER AND JASON, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF, IF IT'S A VIOLATION OF PENAL CODE, IT'S A CRIME. I SEE. SO WE CAN REVIEW IT UP HERE ALL WE WANT TO, BUT THE CHIEF AND OTHERS ARE GONNA BE INVESTIGATING THE CRIME. SO THERE'S POTENTIALLY TWO INVESTIGATIONS OR TWO PROCESSES GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME. MM-HMM . THAT GETS, UH, CONFUSING. YEAH. UH, 'CAUSE YOU, IT SOUNDS FUNNY, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT RULE THAT THERE WAS NOT A VI ETHICAL VIOLATION, BUT THERE IS A CRIMINAL VIOLATION. SOME WOULD ARGUE, WELL, IF ANYBODY COMMITS A CRIME, THEY'RE NOT ETHICAL. WE COULD ARGUE THAT ALL DAY LONG. UM, BUT, BUT I AGREE WITH HAVING THE PRINCIPAL STATED WITH THE PARAGRAPH SAYS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS FOR GUIDANCE ONLY. THIS IS JUST KIND OF THE RULES WE TRY TO LIVE BY, BUT IT'S NOT A BASIS FOR FILING A COMPLAINT. HERE ARE THE, HERE'S THE ISSUES THAT YOU CAN FILE THE COMPLAINT ON AND THEN SPELL IT OUT. DON'T JUST SAY, REFER TO SOMETHING BECAUSE THAT GETS, THIS GETS DIFFICULT ON THE PERSON. SO WOULD YOU SAY TO SPELL IT OUT, SPELL OUT THE LAWS SPECIFICALLY? YEAH. CAROL HAD AN EXAMPLE. OH, RIGHT THERE. YEAH. THIS IS, YOU WOULD SPELL IT OUT SPECIFICALLY. YEAH. VIOL, WHAT I'M SAYING OF THIS ARTICLE FOR THE CITY. I MEAN, SAY WHAT THOSE TYPE VIOLATIONS ARE, TWO B OR WHATEVER, TWO B ONE TWO B, THEN THEY WOULD PART IN THAT, UH, CITY ATTORNEY. MAY I ASK, UH, COUNSEL A QUESTION, UM, JUST TO KIND OF GET A SENSE OF, OF WHERE YOU ARE. WHAT ABOUT LEAVING THE REFERENCES TO THE STATUTES IN THE ORDINANCE, BUT IN OUR INSTRUCTIONS HAVE AN EXPLANATION SUCH AS THE, UH, THE SCREEN THAT CAROL HAD UP A MOMENT AGO WHERE WE MIGHT HAVE SOME EXAMPLES OR SOME, UH, REFERENCE TO CONDUCT AS OPPOSED TO PUTTING THOSE REFERENCES IN THE ORDINANCE? YES. THAT'S OKAY. I I, I, I WANTED TO SAY THIS. I, IT'S THE TEACHER IN ME. I, I, I'M SORRY. I I WANT TO, IT'S OKAY. IT'S GOING TO SOUND LIKE I'M PUSHING BACK, BUT I'M, I'M NOT, I JUST WANNA BE REALLY CLEAR. IF I WAS READING SOMETHING AND IT BOLDLY SAID, THIS IS FOR GUIDANCE ONLY, ONLY SOMETHING THAT'S GUIDING YOU IS TAKING YOU ON A JOURNEY TO WHEREVER YOU WANT TO GO. SO IF I'M UPSET, SOMEONE HAS DONE SOMETHING TO ME AND I FEEL LIKE I NEED TO TAKE THIS HIGHER, AND I PULL THIS UP AND I GO, OKAY, THIS IS FOR GUIDANCE TO ME. I AM NOW IN IT. AND, AND I KNOW THAT ALL OF US WE'RE UP HERE DISCUSSING IT, BUT I THINK ONE OF OUR BIGGEST ISSUES, AND WE KEEP SEEING THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH DIFFERENT THINGS, IS IT'S THE VERBIAGE. WE'VE REALLY GOT TO GET TO A POINT WHERE WE SIMPLIFY THINGS. I, I WISH EVERYONE HAD, UM, IT, NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME COMPREHENSION ABILITIES WHEN IT COMES TO READING. THAT'S TRUE. AND IF, IF WE DON'T WANT TO OPEN UP OURSELVES TO A LOT OF EXTRA TIME TO STAFF AND FRIVOLOUS THINGS, AND I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW YET WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, AND I'M NOT PUSHING BACK TO ALL THESE IDEAS. I THINK THEY'RE ALL GREAT. WE JUST NEED TO ELIMINATE ANYTHING THAT WOULD CAUSE MORE CONFUSION TO CITIZENS AND TOO MANY WORDS CAN BE A PROBLEM. 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT ALL LAWYERS COUNCIL MEMBER FRANCO. YEAH. SO IT'S KIND OF, I THINK IT KIND OF BE SIMPLE ON THE FORM. YOU COULD JUST PUT, YOU KNOW, ETHICS VIOLATION ONLY REFERENCES, LET'S SAY IT'S ARTICLE THREE, WHICH WILL LIST THE LEGAL, THE LEGAL CODE, WHICH, WHICH IS THE NEXT ONE. BASICALLY THE, THE STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, THE PRINCIPLES CAN, ARE, ARE ONLY GUIDANCE ONLY IN OR NOT AREN'T AN ETHICS COMPLAINT THAT WOULD BE REVIEWED BY THE COMMITTEE SO THAT THE, THEY KNOW IN THE FORM, OH, WELL, [00:55:01] I'M GONNA ARTICLE TWO, BUT IT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE. I CAN FILE THIS, BUT IT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE. ARTICLE THREE. OKAY. THEN THAT'S GONNA GO SOMEWHERE. BECAUSE IT, LET'S BE HONEST, I MEAN, KIND OF IN, IN, IN THE BUSINESS ASPECT, IF I'M, IF, IF, IF I BREAK THE PRINCIPLE PART, DOESN'T MEAN I'M GONNA GET FIRED, IT MEANS, WELL, I'LL PROBABLY GET FIRED, BUT IF I BREAK THE STANDARDS PART, I'M GONNA JAIL. RIGHT. AND REALISTIC. SO, AND, AND THE THING ABOUT IT IS, THE PEOPLE WHO HIRE US ARE THE ONES WHO VOTE FOR US. SO IF I BREAK, IF I'M BREAKING THE PRINCIPLES, I I, THE, MY EMPLOYEE, MY EMPLOYERS AREN'T GONNA PUT KEEP ME HERE. SO JUST WANNA LOOK FOR YOU GUYS. YEAH. THEY JUST, SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THAT, THAT COMPLAINT IS, THAT'S WHERE THAT IS, IS, UH, HOW WOULD YOU SAY POLICED. OKAY. THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT. IF I'M WRONG, I APOLOGIZE. COUNCIL MEMBER POWELL. UH, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE PRINCIPAL STAY IN THERE. UM, MEAN THEY DO NEED TO, UM, I MEAN, THEY'RE THERE NOW, RIGHT? I, I, IT'S PROBABLY A BAD LOOK TO REMOVE THOSE, UM, PRINCIPLES THAT WE HOLD OURSELVES TO CURRENTLY. UM, SO I'D LIKE TO SEE 'EM STAY. I THINK THE SECOND ON THESE STATEMENTS YOU HAVE ON THE SCREEN, THE SECOND ONE'S MORE CONCISE. UM, IT'S THE FOLLOWING LIST. AND SO THEY READ THAT STATEMENT FIRST BEFORE GETTING INTO THE LIST. UM, AND SO I, I WOULD, I THINK THAT ONE, UM, IS A LITTLE LESS CONFUSING. UM, AND THEN I AGREE THAT, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE INDIVIDUAL VIOLATIONS LISTED OUT BECAUSE THE FORM, THEY'LL ULTIMATELY HAVE TO REFERENCE ONE OF THOSE THINGS. AND I THINK WHOEVER, I KNOW WE'RE NOT GETTING INTO LIKE WHO'S DOING THAT INITIAL REVIEW TONIGHT, BUT I THINK IT'S GONNA MAKE THAT REVIEW, UH, MORE SIMPLE JUST TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE ONE THEY IDENTIFIED. IS THIS A YES OR NO? UM, WHOEVER'S DOING THAT REVIEW DOESN'T HAVE TO FIGURE OUT, DID ANY ETHICS VIOLATION OKAY, OCCUR. THEY NEED TO, THIS IS THE ONE THAT WAS IDENTIFIED, YOU KNOW, IS THEIR BASIS TO CONTINUE THE PROCESS BASED ON THAT ONE. UM, I THINK I, YOUR QUESTION ABOUT DO WE NEED TO LIST THEM ALL ON THE ORDINANCE? I'M ASSUMING YOU DIDN'T SAY WHY, BUT I'M ASSUMING IF, IF THE REASON YOU ASKED THAT IS BECAUSE IF, UM, IF WE JUST, IF THE ORDINANCE JUST SAYS PENAL CODE IN GENERAL AND THERE'S EVER ADJUSTMENTS TO IT, WE DON'T HAVE TO UPDATE THE ORDINANCE TO MATCH EVERY TIME. WE CAN JUST UPDATE THE, THE COMPLAINT FORM, RIGHT? THERE ARE REALLY THREE REASONS. COUNCIL MEMBER FIRST IS THE ONE YOU SUGGESTED. SECOND IS, I DO THINK IT WOULD BE MORE CONFUSING IF WE TRIED TO SPELL OUT WHAT WAS IN THOSE STATUTES. AND THIRD, IT WOULD MAKE THE ORDINANCE MUCH, MUCH LONGER. AND IF YOU ALL RECALL, WHEN WE HAVE HAD OUR TRAININGS, UM, WE SPEND ABOUT AN HOUR GOING THROUGH THOSE VARIOUS STATUTES. IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION FOR A PERSON TO DIGEST. IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION FOR A, A LAWYER OR A COUNCIL MEMBER TO, TO DIGEST. SO MY CONCERN IS THAT IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION OVERLOAD, AND IF WE HAD A INFORMATIONAL SHEET ALONG WITH THE COMPLAINT FORM, IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT EASIER. BUT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S, IT'S A TOUGH CALL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. I'D JUST LIKE A LITTLE, LITTLE GUIDANCE FROM YOU ALL. YEAH. SCOTT, I, I LIKE THE, I LIKE THE IDEA OF WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING. I MEAN, I HAD TIME TO ACTUALLY LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE VIOLATIONS AND THEY ARE RATHER LENGTHY. UM, AGAIN, A, A GOOGLE SEARCH, IF YOU JUST TYPE IN THE LOCAL CODE AND, AND IT WILL PULL UP, ANYBODY CAN LOOK THAT UP. SO TO HAVE THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL ASIDE FROM, UH, THE CODE. AND, UM, I, I THINK THAT I, I, I LIKE YOUR SUGGESTIONS, WHAT I'M SAYING. SO COUNCIL MEMBER, UM, SO I, I LIKE THE IDEA OF JUST PUTTING IN, UH, THE ARTICLE OR THE CODE. IF IT'S ONLINE, WE CAN HYPERLINK IT AND THEY GO DIRECTLY TO IT. UM, IF THEY'RE COMING IN PERSON AND THEY'RE FILLING OUT AN ACTUAL FORM, MAYBE WHAT WE COULD HAVE IS LIKE A QR CODE OR SOMETHING WHERE THEY CAN GO DIRECTLY TO IT, UM, FROM THAT PIECE OF PAPER. UH, SOMETHING THAT SPECIFICALLY SHOWS THEM WHERE THEY CAN FIND IT ONLINE SO THEY AREN'T SEARCHING EVERYWHERE. BECAUSE I AGREE, NOT EVERYBODY, UM, LIKES DELVING DEEP INTO OUR CODES AND, UH, IN OUR WEBSITE. AND SO I, I, I THINK THAT'S AN EASY FIX JUST DOING A HYPERLINK. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT SOME OF THE CITIES THAT I'VE SEEN THAT HAVE AN ETHICS BOARD, THEY JUST USE A HYPERLINK AND THEY TAKE 'EM AND THEY HAVE TO SPELL OUT THE ARTICLE ON THE APPLICATION OR, OR, YOU KNOW, ALONG WITH SPELLING OUT [01:00:01] WHAT, UM, WHAT THEY'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT. YES. THAT'S FAIR. AND WHILE YOU'RE SAYING THAT, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER, I'M ACTUALLY LOOKING AT OUR CODE AND I CAN SEE THAT IT IS NOT HYPERLINKED. SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE MAY WANT TO, UH, ASK THE PROVIDER THAT WE CAN DO. WE DO DO IT WITH OUR ULDC. YEAH. UM, BUT NOT WITH THE, THE ACTUAL CODE OF ORDINANCES. MM-HMM . BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE ON PRINCIPLES OR THE STANDARDS AND MANDATES? JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WERE THE STANDARDS VIOLATION OF PENAL CODE AS THE PRIMARY FOCUS THAT YES. THAT COUNSEL WANTED? YES. MM-HMM . OKAY. UH, REVIEW OF COMPLETENESS, UH, JUST TO TOUCH ON THIS AND MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS OKAY. UM, AS I INDICATED THIS WOULD GO, SO WHEN SOMEBODY COMPLETES THE FORM, THEY WOULD BE SUBMITTING THAT TO THE CITY CLERK TO JUST TO RECEIVE AND REVIEW IT FOR COMPLETENESS THAT ALL THE BLANKS AND BOXES AND ARE FILLED OUT. YES. CROSSED. ALL RIGHT. SO MOVING ON, UM, TO THE INVESTIGATION HEARING PORTION. HOLD ON ONE SECOND. I'M TRYING TO, COUNCIL, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE LAST SLIDE? UM, SO, SO IT, THE RECEIPT, THE, THE CLERK'S JUST GONNA RECEIVE IT. SHE WON'T BE FILING IT. CORRECT? SHE'S, SHE MENTIONED TO EARLIER AND FILING IT. SHE'S, ANYTHING, ANYTHING TURNING TO THE CLERK HAS TO BE FILED. YEAH. HAS TO BE FILED WITH THE CLERK. YEAH. SO SHE'S, IT IT IS A, IT IS A CLERK FILING IT OR IT'S THE COMMITTEE FILE. 'CAUSE I KNOW THIS, THE OLD ORDINANCE IS, THE COMMITTEE FILES IT, SO THERE IS A CLARIFICATION POINT TO ANYTHING TURNED IN, INTO, EVEN IF IT WAS TURNED INTO AN ETHICS REVIEW BOARD IS GONNA BE A, IT'S GONNA BE THE SAME AS TURNING IT INTO THE CITY CLERK. THEY'RE BOTH GONNA BE OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS REGARDLESS WHO THEY TURN IT INTO. OKAY. UH, ONE MORE QUESTION. IF, AND AS THIS COMPLAINT IS TURNED INTO, SAY, THE CITY ATTORNEY RATHER THAN THE CLERK, WOULD THAT ALLOW FOR THE, THE PERSON, THE COMPLAIN AGAINST TO HAVE CLIENT ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGES? I CAN ANSWER THAT COUNCIL MEMBER. THE ANSWER IS NO. OKAY. BECAUSE, UM, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE REPRESENTS THE CITY, EVEN IF IT WERE AN EMPLOYEE, EVEN IF IT WERE ONE OF YOU. UM, WE WOULD NOT BE REPRESENTING THE INDIVIDUAL WHO FILED THAT COMPLAINT. UH, WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL. UM, THAT'S ALSO PART OF THE, UH, STATE BAR PROFESSIONAL RULES OF CONDUCT. UM, WHEN, UH, OR, OR I SHOULDN'T SAY THAT. THE STATE BAR RULES, IT'S, IT'S PART OF OUR TEXAS JURISPRUDENCE THAT WHEN LAWYERS CONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS, THEY ARE NOT ALWAYS SERVING IN THE CAPACITY OF AN ATTORNEY. SO THOSE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE RECEIVED AND THAT ARE SENT OUT IN THE INFORMATION THAT IS DISCUSSED, IS NOT ALWAYS PROTECTED BY THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. AND, UH, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT A COURT WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. SO, UH, FOR THE MOST PART, UH, LAWYERS PRESUME THAT WHEN THEY'RE ACTING IN THE ROLE OF INVESTIGATOR, THAT THE DOCUMENTS THAT THEY ARE RECEIVING AND THE DOCUMENTS THAT THEY'RE HANDING OUT WOULD NOT BE CONTROLLED BY THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. OKAY. THANK YOU. I ADD UP. OKAY. WE'RE GOOD. ALL RIGHT. UM, SO AGAIN, WHEN YOU GET TO THE KIND OF THAT INVESTIGATION OR HEARING STAGE, THEN YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHO'S GOING TO HANDLE THAT. SO, A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES UP HERE. UH, CLEARLY THE ETHICS REVIEW BOARD, YOU KNOW, ETHICS COMMISSION, UM, THAT IS ONE THAT IS UTILIZED BY NUMEROUS CITIES. SOME CITIES DO RELY STRICTLY ON THEIR COUNCIL. UM, THEIR COUNCIL SERVES IN THAT CAPACITY. UM, AND JUST TRYING TO, TO BRAINSTORM SOME OTHER ALTERNATIVES, BECAUSE EVEN IN TALK, TALKING WITH SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES, UM, THIS IS A DIFFICULT PROCESS. THERE ARE CITIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THIS AS WELL, UM, CONSIDERING WHETHER TO FLIP, YOU KNOW, IF THEY, THEY HAVE AN ETHICS BOARD RIGHT NOW, [01:05:01] FLIPPING IT TO COUNCIL, IF THEY HAVE COUNCIL, FLIPPING IT TO AN ETHICS BOARD. SO, SO, UM, I'M GONNA SAY YOU, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PERFECT WAY, UM, BUT KIND OF IN BRAINSTORMING, UH, SOME OTHER OP OPTIONS POTENTIALLY ARE, YOU KNOW, IS IT COUNCIL PLUS SOME SORT OF EXTERNAL COMPONENT, UM, WHETHER THAT'S AN EXTERNAL ATTORNEY, UM, POTENTIALLY OTHER PROFESSIONAL LEVEL PEOPLE WHO DEAL KIND OF IN THESE ARENAS OF INVESTIGATIONS AND ETHICS AND THAT SORT OF THING, SUCH AS, UH, MEDIATORS, HUMAN RESOURCES PROFESSIONALS, AUDITORS. UM, AND THEN ALSO THE CONSIDERATION OF POTENTIALLY, UH, UNIVERSITY FACULTY, UM, AND KIND OF THOSE MASTER LEVEL CANDIDATES THINKING OF MASTERS IN PUBLIC, UH, ADMINISTRATION. UM, THOSE SCHOOLS LIKE THE HOBBY SCHOOL, UM, ASSOCIATED WITH UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON, THE, THE FACULTY, UM, AND POTENTIALLY THE STUDENTS IN INVOLVED, AT LEAST IN A MASTER'S LEVEL, UM, OR, UH, SOME OF THE LAW SCHOOLS, UM, ENGAGING WITH THEM. AND I BELIEVE THEY HAVE SOME, UH, MEDIATION OR, UM, YOU'VE USED ANOTHER TERM AND I FORGET WHAT IT WAS. . YEAH. THERE, THERE ARE, UM, IN LAW SCHOOL, THERE ARE, UH, PROFESSIONAL CLINICS, THERE ARE MEDIATION PROGRAMS. THERE ARE, UH, DISPUTE RESOLUTION PROGRAMS. SO, AND, AND THERE ARE OTHER SCHOOLS THAT IT'S NOT JUST LIMITED TO, TO LAW SCHOOLS, THE BUSINESS SCHOOLS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS SCHOOLS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. ARE THERE EXAMPLES OF OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE DONE THIS WITH THE UNIVERSITIES AND LAW SCHOOLS? UH, NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF THAT. UM, AND JUST TRYING TO THINK OF ALTERNATIVES. MM-HMM . UH, THAT WAS JUST ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP AS POSSIBILITIES. I'LL TELL YOU. YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN HIRE AN ATTORNEY. WE ALL KNOW THAT. UM, IN TERMS OF SOME OF THOSE OTHER EXTERNAL PROFESSIONAL LEVELS AND, AND THOSE UNIVERSITY THINGS, WE HAVE NOT VETTED THOSE YET. UM, WANTED TO BRING THOSE OPTIONS TO YOU. IF, IF THAT'S SOMETHING WHERE YOU THINK YOU'RE INTERESTED, THEN WE CAN CERTAINLY EXPLORE THOSE AND SEE WHAT OUR OP OPPORTUNITIES ARE. UM, YOU KNOW, JUST WANTED TO KIND OF BRING SOME, SOME DIFFERENT THOUGHTS TO COUNCIL AGAIN, TOTALLY UP TO Y'ALL. HOW, HOW YOU WANNA PROCEED. COUNCIL MEMBER FRANCO. YEAH. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT KIND OF FIRST SLIDE ON HOW YOU HAD IT BROKE DOWN WHERE IT GOES, REVIEW COMPLAINT, REVIEW, PRELIMINARY REVIEW INVESTIGATION, COUNSEL. RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE LIKE, WHERE WE'RE GOING, RIGHT? SO THE COMPLAINTS FILED WITH THE CLERK. THE CLERK WILL THEN REVIEW FOR COMPETITIVE FOR COMPLETENESS AND KIND OF WHERE THAT PRELIMINARY INVEST IN INVESTIGATION AND HEARING. RIGHT? I THINK THE PRELIMINARY VIEW KIND OF NEEDS TO GO TO, TO THE COMMITTEE, TO EXEC, TO A, A, UH, ETHICS COMMITTEE. AND IF THEY MOVE FORWARD, I THINK THAT'S AT THE POINT THAT INVEST WHERE, YOU KNOW, IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO, DO WE WANT THE COMMITTEE TO BE DOING THE INVESTIGATION OR DO WE GO TO A THIRD PARTY AT THAT POINT? 'CAUSE THE POINT IS, WE DON'T WANT BE WASTING A THIRD PARTY TIME WHO'S JUST GONNA SAY, HEY, EVERY COMPLAINT NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED BY ME AND THEY WANNA SPEND MONEY MM-HMM . BUT AT THAT POINT, WE'VE GOT A COMMITTEE THAT'S SAID, HEY, THIS IS A LEGITIMATE COMPLAINT. THEN DO I WOULD, ME PERSONALLY, I WOULD, I'D LIKE TO SEE IT DONE BY A THIRD PARTY. NOT ANYBODY UP HERE ON COUNCIL OR ANYBODY IN THE COMMITTEE. I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A NONPARTISAN PERSON. MAYOR COUNCIL, WE, WE DEBATED THAT, UM, IT WAS REMOVED BEFORE THIS PRESENTATION. I'M BECAUSE NO APOLOGIZE. NO, NO. IT WAS REMOVED BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT IFS IF THEN STATEMENTS THAT, THAT WERE HAPPENING. AND WE, WE STAFF AGREES WITH YOU ON THAT PROCESS. WE DID NOT WANNA CONVOLUTE THE DISCUSSION ON WHAT THAT IS TODAY. BUT WE'RE, WE ARE WRAPPING THAT INTO THE INVESTIGATION HEARING PIECE OF, UH, THERE WOULD BE A PIECE THAT WOULD BE NON-ACTIONABLE, UH, THROUGH THIS PROCESS. AND WE DO AGREE. WE JUST TOOK IT OUT BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY, IF THEN STATEMENTS THAT THEY GO WITH IT. YEAH. 'CAUSE I, I'M JUST KINDA LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, 1, 2, 3, 4, WHAT, WHAT STAGE WE'RE AT. AND IF WE'RE AT STAGE FOUR, I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, STAGE FOUR WOULD BE, YEAH. SO THE INVESTIGATION HEARING PIECE IS BASED ON THE FACT THAT THIS COMPLAINT HAS, HAS MET, UM, YOU KNOW, HAS IT FALLS, FALLS UNDER THE ORDINANCE MM-HMM . SO IT IS, IT IS MOVING FORWARD. IT'S NOT ONE THAT'S BEEN DISMISSED. THAT WOULD HAPPEN A PRIOR STEP. SO THE ASSUMPTION HERE IS THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE A REASONABLE PRUDENT PERSON, WHATEVER, WOULD, UH, FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE ALLEGATION. GO AHEAD, MIKE. JUMPING RIGHT. I AGREE WITH, UH, COLLEAGUE, YOU KNOW, IS FILED, THE COMPLAINT COMES INTO CITY CLERK'S OFFICE, CITY CLERK'S OFFICE RULES IT FOR COMPLETENESS, CITY CLERK'S OFFICE, THEN TURNS IT OVER TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION FOR RE INITIAL REVIEW. AND THEY'RE GONNA LOOK AT IT AND SAY IT EITHER MEETS THE STANDARDS OF THE, OF THE ORDINANCE OR IT DOESN'T. IF IT DOES, THEN WE GO DOWN TO THE NEXT PHASE AND IT SHOULD BE HEARING AND OR [01:10:01] INVESTIGATION. IF THE COMPLAINT IS, I HATE TO SAY THIS WAY, BUT THE COMPLAINT IS SIMPLE ENOUGH THAT THE BOARD JUST WANTS TO GET EVERYBODY TOGETHER AND HEAR BOTH SIDES. MM-HMM . THEY CAN HOLD A HEARING AND THEN MAKE A DECISION. IF IT'S FAR MORE COMPLICATED, THEN THE BOARD WOULD HAVE THE OPTION OF BRINGING ON BOARD A THIRD PARTY INVESTIGATOR TO DO THE GREATER DETAIL. BUT THAT, THAT IT'S NOT AUTOMATIC. SO WE'RE NOT JUST AUTOMATICALLY HIRING A THIRD PARTY EVERY TIME THE BOARD WOULD MAKE THAT REVIEW AT A HEARING MM-HMM . AND IF THEY, IF, IF THE HEARING IS GOING, WHOA, THIS, THIS IS DEEPER THAN WE THOUGHT. WE WANT TO TURN IT OVER NOW TO AN INVESTIGATOR TO BRING US ALL THE DETAILS. THEY HAVE THAT OPTION OR SHOULD HAVE THAT OPTION. UH, AND THEN AFTER THEY DO THAT, THEY CAN HAVE ANOTHER HEARING AND MAKE A REFERRAL REC REALLY NOT A REFERRAL. 'CAUSE AFTER THEY DO THEIR HEARINGS, IT'S COMING TO US. MM-HMM . IT'S REACHED THAT STAGE. SOMEBODY'S GONNA SAY YES OR NO. SO IT COMES TO US WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS. AND I THINK THAT'S A PRETTY YEAH. FAIR PROCESS. UM, I THINK THE PRELIMINARY REVIEW AT THE COMMISSION LEVEL, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE A COMMITTEE, THEN THEY NEED TO DO THE PRELIMINARY REVIEW AND THEY MAKE A DECISION TO MOVE FORWARD OR NOT. IF THEY MOVE FORWARD, IT'S, THEY CAN DO A, A HEARING OR HIRE AN INVESTIGATOR AND THEN IT COMES BACK TO THEM FOR MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO US. UM, IT'S GONNA GET A LITTLE COMPLICATED, BUT I CAN SEE WHERE THERE MIGHT BE SOME COMPLAINTS COME FORWARD THAT MERIT A HEARING, BUT THEN THE HEARING, NOTHING COMES OF IT. YOU KNOW, ONCE ALL THE BOTH SIDES GET TO TELL THEIR STORY TO THE PANEL, THAT MAY BE OKAY, WE UNDERSTAND HOW YOU GOT OFFENDED. WE UNDERSTAND HOW YOU FEEL. YOU WERE WRONG, BUT IT JUST DOESN'T MEET THE LEVEL TO TAKE ACTION. THAT'S THEIR, THAT WOULD BE THEIR RECOMMENDATION TO US. SO THAT'S KIND OF HOW I SEE IT. SO, COUNCIL MEMBER MCWELL, UH, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING HE SAID. I MEAN, I THINK WE NEED THE, UH, IN THE LAST MEETING, YOU KNOW, I I, I WAS REALLY ON BOARD WITH USING THE, UH, INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY TO DO THE INVESTIGATION. UM, AND THEN AFTER MORE DISCUSSION MM-HMM . I REALIZED WE, I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY NEED THAT, THAT BODY, UH, IN BETWEEN TO AT LEAST THROW OUT FRIVOLOUS COMPLAINTS. JUST TO, JUST TO KEEP FROM COMPLETELY BOGGING DOWN THE SYSTEM. SO, UM, YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE, THE ETHICS COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, DO THAT INITIAL REVIEW, JUST MAKE SURE IT'S MOVING FORWARD. AND THEN THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO USE, UM, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE COUNSEL IF, IF NEEDED. SO AS FAR THE COMMUNITY, THE COMMITTEE ITSELF, EXTERNAL FULLY, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE, IS THAT PART OF OUR DISCUSSION? THAT'S PART OF, THAT'S WHAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT HERE. I I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR, UM, DISTRICT SPECIFIC APPOINTMENTS, PRIVATE, PRIVATE CITIZENS. UM, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF YOU, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'VE ALREADY AGREED UPON. IF WE'RE LIMITING THE SCOPE OF JURISDICTION TO A CODE OF CONDUCT THAT APPLIES TO PENAL CODES, YOU TAKE AWAY THAT, THAT THAT POTENTIAL OF THE, OF THE ARTICLE BEING WEAPONIZED, SO TO SPEAK, UM, IN ANY KIND OF BIASES. SO THAT'S, IT'S VERY OBJECTIVE. WE KEEP THE CODE VERY OBJECTIVE. I THINK WE COULD, UH, FOR LACK OF BETTER TERM, GET AWAY WITH GOING TO DISTRICT SPECIFIC APPOINTMENTS OF PRIVATE CITIZENS. MAYBE HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOUR WILL DECIDE IF AN INVESTIGATION IS WARRANTED. AND, YOU KNOW, FIVE WILL DETERMINE A, LIKE A SUPER MAJORITY WILL DECIDE LIKE WHAT COURTS OF DISCIPLINARY ACTION TO RECOMMEND TO COUNSEL MOVING FORWARD. UM, BUT AGAIN, UM, AGAIN, IF WE'RE LIMITING THE, THE JURISDICTION TO PENAL CODES AND THAT CODE OF CONDUCT, I DON'T SEE AN ISSUE WITH ANYBODY OTHER THAN AN OUTSIDE PRIVATE CITIZENS. I ALSO WOULD RECOMMEND THAT IF ANYBODY SERVING ON THAT COMMISSION HAS NO TIES TO THE CITY AND THAT THEY DO NOT, AND THEY'RE NOT CURRENTLY SERVING ON ANY OTHER COMMITTEE AT THE TIME. AND HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE NO TIES TO THE CITY, RIGHT? YEAH. YOU KNOW, ANY FAMILY MEMBERS? THERE AGAIN, CITY WELL, CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, LIKE FAMILY MEMBERS WORKING WITHIN THE CITY. UM, WHY, WHY WOULD THAT BE IMPORTANT IF WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO HAVE EMPLOYEES AS PART OF ANY INVESTIGATION? WELL, THE IDEA IS TO TRY TO, TO ELIMINATE AS MUCH CONFLICT OF INTEREST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I, THAT'S AN INTERESTING TAKE FOR ME BECAUSE IF I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THERE WOULD BE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST IF SOMEONE'S COUSIN WORKED FOR THE CITY OF BAYTOWN. 'CAUSE IF WE'RE GONNA APPOINT CITIZENS WITH NO OTHER, UH, OTHER THAN BEING DISTRICT, DISTRICT SPECIFIC, THEN I, I, I MEAN THE CITY'S PRETTY BIG. THAT'S GONNA, THAT'S GONNA, WELL, HOW ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ANY, [01:15:01] ANYBODY THAT'S CONNECTED TO I GUESS DEPARTMENT HEADS OR, OR ANYBODY GIMME JASON. I DON'T KNOW. I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT. DEALING COUNCIL MEMBER OF ALVARADO. YES. I DON'T THINK WE'RE THERE YET. YEAH. UM, I DON'T THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL MAKEUP. NO, WE'RE NOT OF THE ETHICS COMMITTEE. I THINK WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE PROCESS AS A WHOLE. OH, THAT'S WHAT I ASKED BEFORE. I SAID, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YEAH. WHAT THE EX COMMITTEE'S GONNA, WE'RE LOOKING, LOOKING AT IF WE WANT IT TO BE INTERNAL OR EXTERNAL AND IF EXTERNAL, IF WE WANT DO UNIVERSITY OR PROFESSIONALS. YEAH. SO IT, IT'S NOT SO MUCH I'M LOOKING AT WHO RIGHT NOW, WHO MAKES UP THE ETHICS BOARD. WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT WHO MAKES UP THE EX COMMISSIONER. NOT RIGHT NOW. OKAY. I, I GOTTA AHEAD OF MYSELF IN THE PART THAT'S OKAY. WE'RE SAYING BY WHO. WE WANT THE ETHICS BOARD TO DO THE REVIEWS AND RECOMMENDATIONS. YES. THANK YOU. WE DON'T WANT COUNCIL TO DO IT. WE DON'T WANT COUNCIL PLUS EXTERNAL ATTORNEY. AND, AND I'LL MAKE A COMMENT ON, AND NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE THAT'S GOING FOR A MASTER'S IN PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION OR WHATEVER, BUT WHEN I WAS GOING THROUGH MY MPA, UM, YOU'D BE TOO BUSY. ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES IN CLASS MADE THE COMMENT THAT HE WAS GONNA BE SO HAPPY WHEN HE PASSED AND GOT HIS MASTER'S AND BECAME A CITY MANAGER, BECAUSE THEN HE COULD TELL HIS COUNCIL HOW, WHERE, WHERE TO GO, . AND I SAID, I GAVE HIM MY CARD. I SAYS, WHEN YOU BECOME CITY MANAGER, I WANNA BE AT YOUR FIRST COUNCIL MEETING . SO THEY, THEY, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MASTER'S PROGRAM, IT'S PRETTY INTENSE. AND, AND THEY THAT'S GOOD INSIGHT ARE PRETTY IDEOLOGICAL. UH, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD MATCH. I, I THINK WE NEED TO STICK WITH WHO'S GONNA DO THIS IS GONNA BE THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMITTEE. AND, AND THEN LATER WE'LL DECIDE HOW WE WANT THAT COMMITTEE. OKAY. UM, BUILT IN. UM, I HAVE APPRECIATED YOUR SIMPLICITY TONIGHT AND YOUR CLARIFICATION MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW, MR. LESTER. THANK YOU. I THINK, YEAH. YEARS OF YES. WHO DOES THE INVESTIGATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO MAYOR, DID WE A ANSWER ALL HER QUESTIONS? THAT'S WHAT I'M WAITING FOR YOU. I, I HAVE ONE THING, CAROL, IF YOU DON'T, UM, OKAY, WELL, I CAN'T GET THERE. I JUST WANT SINCE Y'ALL GOT THROUGH THAT ONE. UM, AND YOU WANT TO DO THE ETHICS COMMITTEE? SO THE STEP THAT I LEFT OUT, UM, SORRY, IT'S AN UGLY, UH, SLIDE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I HIT IT WHEN I TOOK IT OUT. . UM, SO THIS WAS THE STEP THAT WAS MISSING. SO IT GOES THROUGH, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S EITHER ACTIONABLE OR NOT ACTIONABLE AND NON-ACTIONABLE HAS THAT FRIVOLOUS COMPONENT THAT Y'ALL TALKED ABOUT. UM, AND I WANTED TO CIRCLE TO THIS, BECAUSE THE, THE WHO MAKES THAT DECISION, IT WAS ALSO ANOTHER PIECE THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO ADDRESS AND THAT WAS BROUGHT UP. UM, AND SO IT COULD BE THAT FULL BOARD, SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES, UM, USE LIKE A PANEL OF THREE FROM THE BOARD TO MAKE THAT FIRST, YOU KNOW, YES, IT'S GOOD TO GO. NO, IT'S NOT. UM, BEFORE IT MOVES INTO, OKAY, NOW THE, IN THIS CASE NOW, OUR ETHICS BOARD WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE, ARE WE GONNA HANDLE THE INVESTIGATION HEARING OR DO WE WANT SOMEBODY ELSE? UM, SO DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY GUIDANCE ON THEN WHO YOU WANT TO DO THAT INITIAL REVIEW? UM, I KINDA LIKE THE IDEA, YOU SAID THE PANEL FROM THE ETH ETHICS REVIEW BOARD. YOU COULD, YOU COULD, THE, THE BOARD ITSELF COULD ELECT A PRESIDENT, VICE PRESIDENT, AND A, AND A SECRETARY OR CHAIR, WHATEVER. AND THOSE THREE OFFICERS OF THAT BOARD COULD DO THE PANEL REVIEW. THE INITIAL I WAS, FOR ME, AND I, I ON THE SURFACE WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, BUT IT'S GONNA COME DOWN TO WHAT OUR PANEL'S MADE OUT OF. BECAUSE IF WE END UP DOING DISTRICT SPECIFIC AND, UM, IT, I MEAN, WHO GETS TO DETERMINE? ARE THEY THEY DO, THEY'RE VOTING WITHIN THEMSELVES. DO YOU HAVE A CHAIR FOR YOU HAVE A CHAIR FOR EVERY COMMITTEE? I, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. THIS ONE OF THIS IS CHALLENGE. MM-HMM . HAS IT. RIGHT. THEY COULD BE WEAPONIZED IN ALL WAYS. I MEAN, JUST, OH, IT'S DEFINITELY COULD BE WEAPONIZED. NO, WHERE YOU GO, IT CAN BE WEAPON WEAPONIZED NO WAY. WITH THE, WHO WE'RE GONNA KEEP IT FROM BEING WEAPONIZED IS IF WE DO EXTERNAL, THAT'S THE POINT. YOU GONNA GO THERE. I MEAN, WE DECIDED NOT, I, I'M GONNA SAY, ALTHOUGH THAT SOUNDS GREAT ON THE SURFACE, I LIKE IT, BUT I JUST, IF WE, IF WE END UP MAKING A PANEL WHERE THERE'S ONE FROM EACH DISTRICT, I THINK THAT THEY'RE GONNA ALL HAVE TO JUST DECIDE WHETHER IT'S ACTIONABLE OR NOT ACTIONABLE. IF YOU START GIVING MORE POWER TO ONE, TWO, OR THREE DISTRICT, THEN YOU'RE JUST TAKING AWAY FROM THE POINT OF THE BOARD TO BEGIN WITH BECAUSE THE SUBJECT OF THIS IS ETHICS. YEAH. SO I JUST, JUST LEAVE IT WITH THE BOARD. THEN I MAY NOT BE PROCESSING EVERY, YOU KNOW, SITUATION RIGHT THIS SECOND, BUT YEAH. BUT WE'RE NOT EVEN LOOKING AT IF IT'S GONNA BE DISTRICT RIGHT NOW. NO, NO, I KNOW, BUT I'M JUST, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SHE ASKED US HOW, YOU KNOW, WHO WOULD LOOK AT THE ACTIONABLE VERSUS NOT ACTIONABLE. AND I THAT YOU HAVE A GREAT POINT. I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF WE CAN ANSWER THAT RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE YET. MM-HMM . AND, [01:20:01] AND WE'RE JUST THAT BEGINNING BACK TO WHY I HID THE SLIDE , WE'RE JUST AT THAT BEGINNING, SORRY, CREATING ANYTHING TONIGHT. SO SHE'LL GO BACK AND DO GUIDANCE, ALL OF THAT. SO YEAH, I THINK IT SHOULD JUST BE ANGIE, SHE GETS TO DECIDE ALL BY HERSELF. PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T MAKE HER QUIET. . IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? MAYOR? I HAVE ONE LAST THING. YES, SIR. SO ONE THING THAT I WILL LEAVE YOU WITH THAT YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT IS IF YOU WANT THIS PROCESS PUBLISHED OR NON-PUBLISHED. OKAY. BECAUSE AS PART OF OUR RECENT CONVERSATIONS IS IF YOU WANTED A PUBLISHED PIECE, YOU GET BACK TO PUTTING WHO, WHOEVER'S NAME, WHOMEVER'S NAME IS ON THAT COMPLAINT IMMEDIATELY ON THE VERY FIRST ETH ETHICS REVIEW, REVIEW BOARD. SO EVEN ON THE PRELIMINARY PIECE, IF IT'S A PUBLISHED PROCESS ON THE PRELIMINARY ONE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO PUBLISH WHO THAT IS AND YOU'D BE BACK RIGHT WHERE WE STARTED AT THE LAST MEETING. AND WOULD THAT BE, IF IT'S NOT PUBLISHED, IT'S STILL GONNA BE OPEN TO PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST. RIGHT? I WAS GONNA, AS SOON AS THE, AS SOON AS THE COMPLAINT IS FILED, IT'S GONNA BE, IS A, IT'S GONNA BE AN OFFICIAL DOCUMENT. OKAY. PERIOD. I, I WILL GO WITH NOT PUBLISHED UNTIL THERE'S FINDINGS. RIGHT. AND THEN THE, THE OTHER PIECE OF THAT IS GIVE COUNCIL, GIVE THE BOARD, IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THIS COUNCIL, GIVE THE BOARD THE FULL AUTHORITY TO DISMISS AS NON-ACTIONABLE WITHOUT HAVING TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL. BECAUSE IF THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL, YOU STILL HAVE TO LIST IT AGAIN SO COUNCIL CAN TAKE ACTION ON. SO, AND, AND THAT'S JUST GONNA BE MORE TIME THAT WE'RE GONNA SPEND ON SOMETHING THAT MAY BE FRIVOLOUS. YEP. UM, YES, MA'AM. SO, UM, TO MR. GRIFFITH'S POINT, IF SOMEONE COMES IN, BECAUSE THE NON-PUBLISHED MAKES THE MOST SENSE WHEN I HEAR, BUT WE HAVE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME THAT COME IN FOR PS. SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN, IF WE JUST AREN'T COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT FROM THE GET GO, RIGHT? JUST EVERYTHING GETS PUBLISHED, BUT WE WILL PUT IT'S BEING CONSIDERED FOR ACTION OR NOT ACTION. I MEAN, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE VERY SPECIFIC HOW IT'S PUBLISHED. I ALMOST THINK IT'S BETTER TO PUBLISH IT AS LONG AS IT'S PUBLISHED WITH THE CORRECT LANGUAGE OF WHAT'S GOING ON. BECAUSE THEN PEOPLE COULD PICK AND CHOOSE, OH, I KNOW I FILED THIS COMPLAINT. I'M GONNA GO GET THE PIR, I'M GOING START, YOU KNOW, LETTING EVERYBODY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. BUT IF, IF WE JUST ALWAYS PUBLISH EVERYTHING THAT'S BROUGHT TO US, UM, AND, AND KEEP THAT, UH, YOU, I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S WHAT I, I WAS JUST ASKING TO THINK ABOUT IT. SO I DON'T THINK THEY NEED TO BE PUBLISHED UNTIL, UH, PAST THAT INITIAL REASON BEING IS, I MEAN, YES, WE CAN HAVE 'EM AGAINST US AND WE RAN FOR OFFICE. WE KNOW THINGS LIKE THAT CAN HAPPEN. YES. BUT WE APPOINT PEOPLE TO BOARDS THAT ARE JUST VOLUNTEER CITIZENS. SO IF, IF SOMEONE DIDN'T LIKE A DECISION OF PNZ, UH, AND THEY GO AND FILE ETHICS COMPLAINTS AGAINST EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF PNZ, THEY MAY BE FRIVOLOUS. BUT IF WE PUBLISH FROM THAT INITIAL FILING, THEN, THEN I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA SEE CITIZENS DRUG THROUGH THAT. UM, AT THE VERY FIRST STAGE, IF IT TURNS OUT TO BE FRIVOLOUS, I, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO BE PUBLISHED AT THAT POINT. SO HE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF WHAT IFS. AND SO I'M GONNA USE THE P AND Z ONE IF WE WERE ON PNZ AND, AND I KNEW, UM, THAT SOMEONE ON PNZ WAS GONNA HAVE A COMPLAINT THOUGHT AGAINST THEM. AND AS A COUNCIL, WE DON'T PUBLISH RIGHT. UNTIL THERE'S FINDINGS FRIVOL ACTIONABLE OR FRIVOLOUS. RIGHT. BUT I'M ON PNZ AND I KNOW THIS, I'M GONNA GO GET THE PR BECAUSE WHAT'S BEEN SAID IS THAT WHETHER IT'S PUBLISHED OR NOT, I CAN STILL GO GET THE PIR BECAUSE ONCE IT'S FILED, IT'S FILED. SO NOW I DON'T LIKE THIS PERSON. IT HASN'T BEEN FILED, IT'S NOT OUR STANDARD PRACTICE. I GO GET THIS, AND THEN I START GETTING ONLINE PUBLIC, AND THEN NOW WE HAVE THIS PERSON THAT WE'VE APPOINTED, AND IT MAY END UP BEING FRIVOLOUS AND TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND EXPLAIN ACTIONABLE VERSUS NOT ACTIONABLE. SO I, I JUST WANT TO, HOW WOULD WE HANDLE IT? THERE'S AN IDEA THAT FOR THAT, THAT, THAT CAME UP IS, IS IF IT IS FRIVOLOUS, YOU GET, YOU TAKE A BIG RED STAMP AND YOU STAMP IT ON THAT, THAT DEAL SAYS FRIVOLOUS ON IT. NO, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS BEFORE THEY, ONE, THEY WERE SAYING, DO WE PUBLISH IT ON DAY ONE? ON DAY ONE FROM DAY ONE? WELL, I MEAN, KNOW THE CITIZEN HAS HAS THAT RIGHT TO DO IT. BUT IF IT TURNS OUT THAT IT'S FRIVOLOUS, THEN THAT COUNTER IN FUTURE SESSIONS SAYS, HEY LOOK, YEAH, THERE WAS ONE, BUT HERE, HERE'S THE DOCUMENTATION. IT SO ARE MONTHS OR TWO MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD. MY POINT WAS TO WHAT, WHEN JACOB, I'M HEARING YOU SAYING, TRYING TO PROTECT PEOPLE THAT WE'RE, IF SOMEONE HAS A FRIVOLOUS, UM, COMPLAINT AGAINST THEM, AND IT'S OUR APPOINTEE, TO BACKTRACK BACK TO PROTECTING THESE PEOPLE THAT WE APPOINT TO THESE BOARDS, Y'ALL SAID EVEN WHETHER IT'S ACTIONABLE OR NOT ACTIONABLE, SOMEONE WALKS IN FILES [01:25:01] A COMPLAINT. I AGREE. IT MAKES THE MOST SENSE NOT TO PUBLISH. I AGREE WITH THAT. HOWEVER, IF IT'S SOMEONE ELSE ON THE BOARD THAT KNOWS THAT THIS, EVEN THE PERSON THAT FILED THE COMPLAINT CAN THEN TURN AROUND, GET THE PR AND SAY, LOOK, THEY HAD THIS COMPLAINT FILED AGAINST THEM. IT HASN'T GOTTEN TO THE STEP, THE THE STEP YET WHERE IT CAN BE STAMPED. WELL ALSO WE NEED TO KEEP THE LANGUAGE IN. RIGHT? SO IF IT'S PUBLICIZED BEFORE THERE'S A HEARING, THAT WILL MAKE IT FRIVOLOUS BY DEFINITION. THAT'S AN INTERESTING WHAT YOU, SO I, I BELIEVE THE ATTORNEY, RIGHT? SO THEY RUN, THEY RUN WITH THAT AND THEY PUBLICIZE IT, IT, IT WILL BY DEFINITION, IT THEN BECOMES A FRIVOLOUS COMPLAINT. WHETHER IT'S MERIT OR ON IT OR NOT. MAYOR AND COUNSEL, I BELIEVE THE ATTORNEYS DID HAVE INPUT, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO OPEN UP A PANDORA'S BOX RIGHT NOW, SCOTT , THAT THE, THAT IT CAN BE NON DISCLOSABLE WHILE IT'S GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, BUT I THINK HE HAS TO LOOK THAT UP. UM, UM, SO AS SOON AS IT'S FILED, IT CAN'T BE DISCLOSED OR, OR PUSHED OUT UNTIL IT HAS A FINAL, THAT WAY IT HAS A, A STAMP ON ACTIONABLE OR NON ACTIONABLE OR WHATEVER THE, WE, WE COULD TALK THROUGH THE DETAILS THAT OF THAT IN AN EXECUTIVE SESSION. OKAY. UM, BUT IF I MAY, MR. MAYOR MM-HMM . WASN'T SURE I UNDERSTOOD. UH, COUNCILMAN MEMBER GRIFFITH'S LAST COMMENT. I DON'T WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'VE GOT THE RIGHT INFORMATION. UH, REGARDING THE STAMP, NO. REGARDING THE, WHETHER IT'S FRIVOLOUS OR NOT, SOMEONE PUBLICIZED. RIGHT? RIGHT. SO IN THE CURRENT ARTICLE RIGHT NOW, I BELIEVE IF, IF THERE'S PUBLICITY SURROUNDING THAT COMPLAINT, THEN BY DEFINITION, I THINK IT'S ARTICLE TWO DASH 8 0 6. SURE. COULD I EXPOUND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT? SURE. UM, THAT, UM, PART OF THE ORDINANCE GOES TO EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS. IS THAT THE ONE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT? LEMME GET TO. OKAY. I THINK I'VE GOT WHERE YOU'RE AT, SIR. 8 0 6 D ONE E, WHICH UNDER THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IS A FACTOR TO BE CONSIDERED, RIGHT. FRIVOLOUS, RIGHT? CORRECT. IT IS, IT IS A FACTOR TO BE CONSIDERED IN DETERMINING WHETHER A COMPLAINT IS FRIVOLOUS. FRIVOLOUS, CORRECT. IT, IT IS NOT A, IT'S NOT IN AND OF ITSELF DESPOSITIVE. OKAY. OKAY. UM, I LIKE THAT LANGUAGE AND, AND, AND I LIKE ALL THE CRITERIA WITHIN THAT SECTION TO DETERMINE WHETHER A COMPLAINT IS FRIVOLOUS AS WELL. SO, YOU KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING FOR SOMEBODY TO THINK ABOUT. RIGHT? IF THEY WENT IN AND DID A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST AND THEY WANTED TO PUBLICIZE IT, IT COULD NULLIFY THE COMPLAINT POSSIBLY WELL, THEIR RIGHT FOR SPEECH. TRUE. THAT'S RIGHT. MS. A I MEAN, IT'S A RIGHT TO SPEAK, RIGHT? IT'S NOT GONNA PUT, I MEAN, LET MS. ALVARADO HAVE HER. SO IF I'M CLEAR ON THAT, SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING A COMPLAINT IS FILED AND SOMEONE DOES A PIR SO THAT AUTOMATICALLY DISCOUNTS THAT COMPLAINT? THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NO. NO. IF THEY, IF THEY USE THE INFORMATION FOR THE PIR MM-HMM . AND SAY THEY GO TO THE BAYTOWN SUN OR MM-HMM . THEY PUBLICIZE THE SOCIAL MEDIA, HEY, THIS PERSON HAS THIS PIR REQUEST. IF THE, THE PARTY THAT FILED THE COMPLAINT OR ASSOCIATED WITH THE COMPLAINT FILED, THAT CREATED PUBLICITY AROUND IT, PERSPECTIVE. MM-HMM . IT SHOULD BE GROUNDS TO INVEST TO, FOR MAKE, TO MAKE THAT PT FRIVOLOUS. PROBABLY NOT TOTAL GROUNDS, BUT MM-HMM . I THINK THAT'S WHY IT SAYS IN THERE. RIGHT. I CAN READ IT TO Y'ALL. IF IT'S A FACTOR, IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S JUST, IT'S AUTOMATICALLY DISMISSED. I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S YOU, I MEAN, I I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOUR RIGHT TO SPEAK OR DO WHAT YOU WANT, BUT THAT WOULD GO INTO, IF SOMEONE'S GOING INTO A, IT WON'T BE THE LITIGATION THAT WOULD HURT THAT PERSON IF THEY WANNA DO THAT. RIGHT. SO THAT'S WILL HURT. THAT'S BETWEEN THE JUDGE. THAT'S WHAT THE JUDGE IS GONNA DETERMINE AT THAT POINT. RIGHT. IT WILL HURT THEM TO DO THAT. YES. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? THAT'S IT. ANYTHING ELSE FROM COUNSEL? GOOD DEAL. THANK YOU MS. FL. GOTTA TAKE MY DAMN. NOW, UM, SINCE WE HAVE EXHAUSTED EVERYTHING ON THE WORK SESSION [01:30:01] AGENDA, WE'RE GONNA ADJOURN THE MEETING. WE WILL HAVE A RECESS UP UNTIL, LET'S DO EIGHT MINUTES, SIX 40. WE'LL START COUNCIL MEETING. I. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.