[ CITY OF BAYTOWN NOTICE OF MEETING CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION THURSDAY, AUGUST 22, 2024 5:00 P.M. TEAM ROOM, COMMUNITY CENTER 2407 MARKET STREET, BAYTOWN, TEXAS 77520 AGENDA CALL TO ORDER AND ANNOUNCEMENT OF QUORUM ]
[00:00:02]
SO I'LL CALL THIS, UH, UH, WORK SESSION OF BAYTOWN CITY COUNCIL TO ORDER.IT'S 5:03 PM WE ARE IN THE TEAM ROOM AT THE COMMUNITY CENTER, UH, HERE ON MARKET STREET.
OUR FIRST ITEM IS OUR CITIZEN COMMENTS, UH, ITEM NO ONE HAS, UH, SIGNED UP TO SPEAK.
[a. Discuss the Unified Land Development Code (ULDC).]
ON TO NEXT IS OUR ITEM TWO A, DISCUSS THE UNIFIED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.UM, SO WE'RE HERE TONIGHT BECAUSE, UH, JASON MADE ME, UM, BUT ACTUALLY WE HAVE SOME STUFF THAT WE NEED TO, TO WALK THROUGH WITH THE ODC, AND WE KIND OF TOUCHED THAT AT THE LAST MEETING, UM, AND DECIDED WE WANTED TO GET INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT.
THESE WERE ANY CONCERNS THAT MIGHT HAVE COME UP DURING OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS.
UM, WE ALSO, UH, I KNOW MARY, YOU MENTIONED YOU WANTED TO KIND OF GO OVER SOME OF THE COMPARISONS IN THE, UM, UH, IN THE USE TABLES FROM THE, WITH THE, UH, THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL AND THE MIXED USE ZONES FROM THE, FROM THE CURRENT CODE TO THE NEW CODE.
SO WE'D LIKE TO DO THAT TONIGHT.
UM, WE WILL SPEND AS MUCH OR AS LITTLE TIME AS ANYONE WANTS TO SPEND ON ANY ONE OF THESE ITEMS. WE'VE GOT THE ENTIRE, UM, LAND USE TABLES COMPARISONS BUILT INTO THE POWERPOINT FOR REFERENCE, BUT WE DON'T PLAN ON GOING THROUGH EVERY SINGLE ITEM.
WE'LL JUST HAVE 'EM THERE JUST IN CASE ANYBODY, UH, HAS A SPECIFIC ONE THAT THEY WANT TO GO THROUGH THAT WE, THAT WE DIDN'T TOUCH ON.
SO, UM, WITH THAT, UM, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED ON THIS.
UM, SO JUST A QUICK REMINDER AGAIN, I MENTIONED BEFORE THAT I THINK, AND I'M NOT GONNA READ THESE THROUGH, I THINK THAT WHAT WE'VE GOT HERE IS A DOCUMENT THAT DOES MEET THE GOALS THAT WE HAVE SET OUT.
UM, IS IT PERFECT? NO, NEVER WILL BE.
UM, WE ALSO KNOW THAT WE WILL BE LOOKING AT SOME CHANGES, UM, PROBABLY PRETTY QUICKLY.
UM, AS WE GET INTO ACTUALLY USING THE DOCUMENT, WE EXPECT TO FIND SOME THINGS THAT, THAT MAYBE DON'T WORK QUITE THE WAY WE EXPECTED THEM TO.
UM, SO THAT SAID, UM, WE WANTED TO JUMP RIGHT INTO, UH, UH, SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WAS IN THE MEMO THAT WAS SENT OUT LAST WEEK.
UM, THE FIRST ONE WAS, THERE HAS BEEN SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT MINIMUM LOT SIZES AND THAT THE PROPOSED LOT SIZES ARE TOO SMALL.
SO REMEMBER THAT, UH, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE WERE TRYING TO DO WITH THIS IS WE HAVE SOME INCREASED HOUSING TYPE OPTIONS.
AND THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM THE, WHEN WE HAD THE WORK SESSION BACK IN MAY.
UM, WE HAVE SOME INCREASED HOUSING TYPE OPTIONS.
WE HAVE MORE BUYRIGHT OPTIONS.
UM, THERE IS THE ADDITION OF, OF SEPARATE STANDARDS FOR DIFFERENT SUBDIVISION TYPES.
SO SOME OF THOSE MIGHT LEAD TO SMALLER LOTS.
UM, AND SO WHAT WE GET OUT OF THAT IS, SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS BROUGHT UP, UM, WAS, HEY, MONT BELLEVUE HAS SOME LARGE ALLOT MINIMUMS. THIS IS THREE QUARTERS AN ACRE, 75 FOOT SETBACKS, UM, THAT OUR PROPOSED CODE HERE, THIS ULDC REALLY GIVES YOU QUITE A BIT OF, OF OPTIONS.
AND SO I'M GONNA GET MORE INTO THOSE SPECIFICS HERE IN JUST A MINUTE.
UM, IT REALLY GIVES YOU KIND OF A, A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT RESIDENTIAL LOT SIZES DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.
UM, AND, AND I WANTED TO POINT OUT TOO, AS WE HAVE USED MOUNT BELLEVUE AS A, AS A, UM, UH, A NEARBY COMPARISON, UM, THEY DO INCLUDE A TOWN HOME STANDARD.
IT'S 2000 SQUARE FOOT PER DWELLING UNIT, AND THEN THEIR NEWEST SUBDIVISION IS ACTUALLY UNDER A PUD.
AND THE PUD, UM, AS YOU GUYS KNOW, IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY SPECIFIC TO THAT DEVELOPMENT.
SO I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER HOW MANY HOMES THAT IS.
1200 HOMES, 1400 HOMES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND THEY START AT 42 FOOT WIDE LOTS.
SO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT MARKET AND WHAT THE MARKET IS DEMANDING RIGHT NOW, EVEN IN THIS ONE WHERE THEY'RE DOING THEIR MOST GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT, IT'S SMALLER LOTS.
IT'S NOT THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE LOTS.
SO WHAT WE TRIED TO DO WAS PROVIDE SOME COMPARISON.
UM, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THIS CHART, HOPEFULLY YOU GUYS CAN SEE THIS.
ALL RIGHT, ON THIS TABLE, UH, YOU'VE GOT THE CURRENT, UH, BAYTOWN SF TWO, WHICH IS WHAT MOST OF OUR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL IS UNDER.
AND THEN THE BAYTOWN, UH, THIS IS THE, THE MIXED RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS THE NEW KIND OF REPLACEMENT FOR THE SF TWO.
AND YOU'LL SEE ACROSS THE TOP MINIMUM LOT SIZE SETBACKS, UH, AND, AND HOW THOSE COMPARE.
AND THEN YOU'LL ALSO SEE MONT BELLEVUE, SEE LAPORTE LEAGUE CITY PARA LAND AND SUGARLAND.
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GIVE YOU GUYS A, A ROUGH IDEA IN THAT SORT OF SWEET SPOT OF WHAT WE DO.
MOST OF OUR DEVELOPMENT IN THIS IS HOW WE COMPARE.
SO RIGHT NOW AT 5,400 SQUARE FEET, WE'RE, WE'RE RIGHT LINE WITH MOST OF THE OTHER COMMUNITIES.
UM, AGAIN, LAPORTE LEAGUE CITY, PEARLAND, UM, SUGAR LAND, WE'RE ALL IN THAT SAME, YOU KNOW, ROUGH, UH, AREA.
THE, THE PROPOSED CODE WOULD BRING US DOWN TO 5,000.
[00:05:01]
UM, AND, AND THEN THERE IS AN INFILL THAT'S 3,500 SQUARE FOOT.WE'LL, AGAIN, WE'LL GET MORE INTO WHAT THAT MEANS ON THE NEXT SLIDE.
UM, SETBACKS, WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SETBACKS, ESPECIALLY THAT FRONT SETBACK BECAUSE WE'VE HAD SOME ISSUES WITH PARKING, WITH ON STREET PARKING, WITH PEOPLE'S VEHICLES STICKING OUT OVER THE END OF THE STREET OR OVER THE SIDEWALKS.
UM, KEEP IN MIND THAT, WHILE I'LL POINT OUT THAT 15 FEET IS THE FRONT SETBACK, BOTH IN THE CURRENT AND IN THE PROPOSED, WE ALSO HAVE A REGULATION THAT MAKE, THAT REQUIRES YOU TO PUSH YOUR GARAGE BACK FURTHER THAN THAT.
SO A PARKING, UM, A RESIDENTIAL PARKING SPACE IS REQUIRED TO BE AT LEAST 20 FEET.
WELL, 20 FEET LONG HAS TO START BEHIND THE SIDEWALK.
IT CAN'T, IT CAN'T GO OVER INTO THE SIDEWALK.
SO AS YOU'RE DEVELOPING, AND WE LOOK AT THOSE, THOSE, UM, DRIVEWAY LENGTHS, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
WE'RE WE'RE MEASURING FROM BEHIND WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS.
SO, UM, SO THAT SAID, AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT THAT 15 FEET, YOU NEED 20 FOR THE, UM, FOR THE, THE LENGTH OF THE, THE PARKING SPACE.
AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE YOUR GARAGE.
AND THE GARAGE AGAIN IS GONNA BE PUSHED BACK A LITTLE BIT.
UM, ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS SLIDE BEFORE I MOVE ON? WHERE, WHERE IN THE, IN THE ULDC DOES IT TALK ABOUT THE 20 FOOT? IT'S IN THE PARKING, UH, DIMENSIONS.
SO, SO WHILE WE'RE, WHILE YOU'LL REMEMBER, WE BASICALLY TOOK OUT ALL THE PARKING MINIMUMS FOR, FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL MM-HMM
WE LEFT IN SOME PARKING MINIMUMS. AND THAT STARTS WITH, AND THEY ALL KIND OF HIT THAT SAME, UM, THE PARKING SPACES ARE 10 BY 20.
AND I'LL ALSO SAY THAT, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR RESIDENTIAL, UM, ALSO STATE THAT IF YOU'RE A FRONT LOADED GARAGE, YOU HAVE TO, UH, HAVE THAT GARAGE SET ANYWHERE FROM FIVE TO 20 FEET BACK FROM THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE.
SO AT A 15 FOOT, THE, THE CLOSEST THAT GARAGE IS GOING TO BE IS 20 FEET.
SO BY THAT, UH, MECHANISM, YOU ALREADY HAVE THE 20 FEET THERE.
UM, SILO GARAGE, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT THAT STILL HAS TO BE SET BACK AT LEAST THREE FEET FROM, UM, FROM THE, THE PLANE OF THE HOUSE.
SO I, I, I LIKE THAT APPROACH.
I MEAN, IN, IN IN, SORRY, IN THE, AND I'M JUST CLARIFYING 'CAUSE I LOOKED AND I DIDN'T SEE IT.
SO IF IT'S IN THERE, IT'S IN THE RESIDENTIAL PARKING SECTION.
'CAUSE THAT, THAT'S A BIG CONCERN.
I HAVE, I'VE GOT A SUBDIVISION IN MY DISTRICT THAT NICE HOMES, THEY'RE TIGHT AS FAR AS, I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY CAN SHAKE HANDS OUT THE KITCHEN WINDOWS AND, AND THEY PARK IN THEIR, THEIR DRIVEWAYS, THEIR TAIL ENDS ARE STICKING OUT OVER THE SIDEWALK OR INTO THE STREET.
I DON'T WANT ANY MORE OF THAT.
WE, WE'VE GOTTA MOVE THOSE VEHICLES.
'CAUSE I GET CALLS FROM THE OTHER NEIGHBORS, IT'S KIND OF LIKE, I CAN'T WALK DOWN THE SIDEWALK 'CAUSE EVERYBODY'S PARKED THE SIDEWALK.
THEY WANT ME TO CALL THE CHIEF IS, I'M NOT GONNA DO THAT.
SO AS LONG AS THERE'S SOMETHING IN THERE THAT, THAT PUSHES THAT ABOVE THE SIDEWALK.
'CAUSE I ALSO DIDN'T SEE THE PART WHERE IT SAYS IT'S 20 FEET FROM THE BACKSIDE OF THE SIDEWALK, NOT FROM THE PROPERTY MINE.
SO IT, THAT, THAT IS IN THE MEASUREMENT OF THE PARKING SPACE ITSELF.
SAYS THAT IT, IT CAN'T, IT SAYS IT CAN'T ENCROACH INTO THE SIDEWALK.
SO THAT'S, THE WAY WE READ THAT IS WE WOULD START AT THE BACK LINE OF THE SIDEWALK AND THEN REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SETBACK IS FOR THE BUILDING, WE HAVE TO HAVE A FULL PARKING SPACE, WHICH IS 20 FEET.
AND, AND THAT, THAT'S BEEN MY MAJOR PUSH ON THE FRONT SETBACK.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S CLEARLY ADDRESSED AND I'M, I JUST MISSED IT AND THEN I'LL LOOK FORWARD AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
UH, I CAN SEE THIS BEING BENEFICIAL FOR LIKE, AREAS THAT HAVE A LOT MORE ACREAGE OR NEW DEVELOPMENT.
BUT IN TERMS OF, UM, THE ONES IN MY AREA THERE, THEY'RE EXISTING AND THEY'RE EITHER DEMOLISHING AND BRINGING UP NEW, THERE'S NOT MUCH SPACE, UM, FOR, UH, PARKING AND VEHICLES OR WE DO HAVE THE, THE HANDS SHAKING AS WELL.
LIKE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE NEW DEVELOPMENT, LIKE WHEN THEY'RE REBUILDING A HOME, UH, ALL THOSE NEW ONES ARE NOW UP TO THE NEW STANDARDS WHERE, UH, HONESTLY, I DON'T LIKE HOMES THAT CLOSE, BUT THAT'S JUST MY PER PERSONAL PREFERENCE.
UM, BUT COULD WE HAVE, UM, SOME LEEWAY WHEN IT COMES TO PARKING IN THOSE OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THE CARPORT OR, UM, ASPHALT PARKING OR CONCRETE PARKING IS NOT AS STRINGENT BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE CARS THAT HANG OUT OVER ONTO THE SIDEWALK AND THEN SOME OF THE STREETS ARE VERY NARROW.
SO THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE SO MANY CARS OUT ON THE ROAD.
SO I, I'D KIND OF LIKE TO TAKE A LOOK AT EXISTING, UM, PROPERTIES, ESPECIALLY WITHIN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
I'M, I'M SURE SARAH WILL HAVE SOME IN HERS AS WE LOOK AT HOMES THAT ARE BEING EITHER REBUILT OR THOSE THAT ARE NEEDING THAT EXTRA, UM, UH, PARKING SPACE.
SO, SO LEMME ASK A QUESTION ON, BASED ON WHAT, WHAT YOU JUST
[00:10:01]
SAID.I DON'T THINK YOU HAD A QUESTION, YOU JUST HAD A COMMENT, BUT YES, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS, SO I WOULD THINK THAT, WELL, I DON'T THINKING ON THIS, THIS IS, FOR ME, THIS IS NEW CONSTRUCTION IS WHAT I'M THINKING.
SO THIS WOULD BE NEW CONSTRUCTION, INFIELD.
SO I THINK LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WOULD BE, BUT LET'S JUST SAY A HOUSE IS DEMOED FOR WHATEVER REASON MM-HMM
AND, AND, AND NEW CONSTRUCTION IN, IN AN AREA OF TOWN, OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT SIZE.
I MEAN THE LOTS ARE GONNA BE A LOT MM-HMM
I WOULD JUST, I WOULD SAY THAT THIS WOULDN'T APPLY.
BUT TO YOUR POINT WOULD BE, I WOULD SAY THEY CAN'T MAYBE ENCROACH ANY CLOSER THAN THEY, THAN THE PREVIOUS STRUCTURE.
IF THERE WAS A PREVIOUS STRUCTURE, THEY CAN'T ENCROACH ANY CLOSER THAN THAT.
BUT I, I HAVE A, I HAVE A SUGGESTION.
UM, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE WHAT WE'RE PUTTING IN THE NEW, IN THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE IS THE SAME AS WHAT WE HAVE NOW, MORE OR LESS MM-HMM
UM, I, I'D LIKE TO KIND OF CARRY THAT FORWARD.
AND THEN WHAT STAFF CAN DO IS TAKE A LOOK AND SEE IF THERE IS A, A SPECIFIC WAY WE CAN ADDRESS THAT, UM, AS AN AMENDMENT IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE, WE'LL PUT THAT ON OUR PRIORITY LIST.
IN THE MEANTIME, IF ANYBODY NEEDS TO LIKE A ONE OFF, THEY CAN ALWAYS COME IN AND APPLY FOR A VARIANCE.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TELLING THE EXISTING.
SO I WAS LOOKING MORE AT WHEN THE HOME HAS TO BE DEMOLISHED FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER, UM, AND THEN THEY'RE REBUILDING AND NOW THEY'RE LIKE ENCROACHING OR IT'S MEETING A NEW STANDARD THAT DOESN'T REALLY FIT IN THE AREA.
MY, MY TAKE IS THIS IS ALL FOR BRAND NEW CONSTRUCTION.
AND I'LL USE CENTRAL HEIGHTS AS AN EXAMPLE.
'CAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF EITHER EMPTY LOTS OR HOMES THAT WERE DEMOED AND REBUILT AND I MEAN, THEY, IT'S REALLY ENHANCED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO PRETTY MUCH FOLLOW THE SAME SETBACK OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN GENERAL, RIGHT? MM-HMM
SO THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING THAT'S EXTREME THAN WHAT CURRENTLY EXISTS IN, IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING BUILT INTO THE NEW, DO WE HAVE ANYTHING, UM, IN THE NEW CODE.
BUT I HAVE SEEN THAT BEFORE WHERE WE TAKE AN AVERAGE OF THE EXISTING, IF IT'S LIKE, IF YOU SAY, OKAY, THE, THE SETBACK IS 15 FEET, BUT MOST OF THESE ARE AT 10, THEN YOU CAN KIND OF, WE CAN MAKE A JUDGMENT CALL ADMINISTRATIVELY TO SAY, OKAY, THESE ARE ALL 10, WE'LL, WE'LL LET YOU GO 10.
BUT THEN AGAIN, WE, WE STILL END UP WITH A PARKING ISSUE ON THOSE LOTS.
SO THERE'S A, THERE'S A BALANCE THERE, BUT I THANK YOU.
THE POINT IS TO ADDRESS, BE ABLE TO ADDRESS IT IN SOME YEAH.
BUT THEN THE, THE, THE, THE EXHAUST VALVE IS THE, IS THE VARIANCE, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO THE AVERAGE NEW TRUCK CREW CAB TRUCK IS 242 INCH WHEEL BASE THAT'S OVER 20 FEET.
SO THAT DOESN'T EVEN FIT AT THE 20 FOOT SETBACK.
YOU'RE INTO THE, YOU'RE END OF THE SIDEWALK.
SO ONLY MEANT SO BACK THE OTHER SLIDE WAS, I, I DIDN'T HEAR ANY CONSENSUS ON COUNSEL.
THEY'RE GOOD ON THE 15 FEET OR NOT.
NO, I'M NOT GOOD WITH THE 15 FEET.
YOU NEED 25 FEET, YOU NEED 25 FEET IN YOUR FRONT DRIVEWAY TO PARK.
IN THE CITY OF BAYTOWN, WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRUE CAB TRUCKS.
SOME THAT'S JUST A HALF TON CREW CAB.
THAT'S NOT A THREE QUARTER TON CREW CAB, WHICH IS BIGGER.
SO EVERY HALF TO ANYBODY WHO PARKS THEIR CREW CAB TRUCK IN THE FRONT YARD IS OVER THE SIDEWALK.
WHICH IS IN FACT NOW VIOLATING PARKING ORDINANCE.
'CAUSE YOU CAN'T PARK IN FRONT OF THE, YOU CAN'T BLOCK THE SIDEWALK.
SO TECHNICALLY IT NEEDS TO GO BACK ANOTHER FIVE FOOT.
THAT IS UP TO THE CONSENSUS OF, OF THE COUNCIL.
I, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY SOMETHING SNARKY LIKE I DIDN'T MAKE YOU BUY A 25 FOOT TRUCK.
BUT, BUT I'M NOT GONNA SAY THAT.
'CAUSE THIS IS TEXAS AND THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT A SUBURBAN, THAT'S NOT A, THAT'S, THAT'S JUST A, I MEAN, HOW MANY HALF-TON TRUCKS WHEN YOU GO DOWN, DRIVE DOWN FORD, DRIVE DOWN THE CHEVROLET DEALERSHIP? SURE.
THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY'S BUYING.
SO, UM, AGAIN, BECAUSE THE, UM, THE CODE DOES SAY YOU GOTTA PUSH YOUR GARAGE BACK ANOTHER FIVE FEET PAST THE, THE, THE FACE OF THE HOUSE, YOU COULD MOVE IT TO 20 AND THAT WOULD GET YOU TO WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR TO 25.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
THAT'S, NO, THAT'S WHY I, I DON'T THINK THAT THE, THE, THE, LET'S JUST SAY THE BUILDING FACADE IS THE BIG DEAL FIT.
I'M GOOD WITH 15 FEET, 20 FEET FOR THAT.
IT'S JUST THE GARAGE, RIGHT? IT IS, IT'S THE, THE, UH, THE LARGE TRUCKS, WHATEVER, UH, YOU KNOW, IT TOOK A LONG TIME FOR A LOT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS TO GET SIDEWALKS.
WE WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO USE THEM, I GUESS.
SO, BUT I MEAN, YOU, I'M FINE.
ME PERSONALLY, I'M FINE WITH 20 FEET SETBACK.
AND THEN THE, THE GARAGE HAS TO BE FIVE FEET MORE THAN THAT.
OR KEEP THE 15 FOOT FRONT SETBACK FOR THE STRUCTURE WITH 25 FOOT PARKING AREA FOR THE VEHICLE.
THAT IS HOW OUR CURRENT, OUR CURRENT CONE READS 25 FOOT SETBACK FOR GR FOR FRONT LOAD GARAGES.
SO I'M NOT SO CONCERNED ABOUT THE BUILDING.
I THOUGHT YOU SAID REMEMBER HEAD,
[00:15:01]
I THINK IT SAYS 25 5.I THOUGHT YOU SAID BOTH CURRENT AND MY PLANNERS ARE SHAKING THEIR HEADS.
SO THE, THE PROPERTY LINE IS GENERALLY ON THE INSIDE OF THE SIDEWALK.
AND SO A FRONT LOADING GARAGE HAS TO BE 25 FEET BACK FROM THAT.
SO YOU HAVE A 20, YOU HAVE A 25 FOOT, UM, DRIVEWAY BEFORE YOU GET TO THE DOOR OF THE GARAGE.
THE PROPERTY LINE IS NOT ALWAYS AT THE BACKSIDE OF THE SIDEWALK.
NOT ALWAYS MAJORITY OF THE TIME, BUT MOST FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
AND THE PROPERTY LINES ARE GENERALLY YEAH, BECAUSE SIDEWALKS ARE GENERALLY ON NEW DEVELOPMENT.
AND SOMETIMES THERE'S NO SIDEWALKS.
BUT SHE SAID A KEY THING I WILL SAY, WHEN SHE SAID FOREFRONT LOAD GARAGES.
SO ON SIDE LOAD GARAGES, THEN IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
BUT THAT'S GONNA BE ON BIGGER LOTS ANYWAY.
I MEAN PROBABLY HAVE EM, THE POINT IS, IS TO KEEP THE BACK END OF THAT VEHICLE FROM ENCROACHING OR BLOCKING THE SIDEWALKS.
THAT THAT'S, THAT'S A COMMON COMPLAINT.
AND, AND I'M NOT GETTING HUNDREDS OF CALLS.
BUT THAT'S A COMMON COMPLAINT I GET FROM THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THEY CAN'T WALK DOWN THE SIDEWALK.
OR THE CALL I GOT WAS, I CAN'T PUSH MY KIDS' STROLLER DOWN THE SIDEWALK BECAUSE THE TRUCKS ARE STICKING OUT IN IT.
THAT'S, THAT'S A CALL I GET BY THE WAY.
I WANNA POINT OUT, OUR CONSULTANT IS ON THE, IS ON THE, UH, ZOOM.
AND HE'S LISTENING TO THE, HE'S KIND OF COACHING THIS AS WE GO.
THERE IS SOME FLEXIBILITY ALREADY BUILT IN THAT ALLOWS FOR SOME AVERAGING.
SO BACK BACK TO THAT, IF, IF I GET A CONSENSUS OF HEAD NODS THAT YOU WANT TO JUST CARRY THAT 25 FOOT GARAGE SETBACK FORWARD, WE'LL JUST DO THAT.
SO YOU, YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT OF THE GARAGE.
I MEAN, CAN WE HAVE HOMES BUILT THAT DON'T HAVE A GARAGE AT ALL? IS IT THE PARKING SPACE MUST BE 25 FEET OR IS IT TWO? A GARAGE? A A PARKING SPACE IS 20 BY 10.
SO THEN WE'RE STILL IN THE SAME ISSUE OF IF THERE'S NO GARAGE, IT'S GONNA BE 20 FEET, RIGHT? NO, NO, 10.
SO IT'S STILL, IT'S REALLY THE PAD ABOUT WE NEED PARKING.
A PARKING SPOT NEEDS TO BE 25 FEET LONG.
THAT'S A GOOD ION PARKING SPACE.
WELL, WE'RE SAYING REALLY A S WELL I'M SAYING IF, IF YOU BUILD A HOME WITH, NO, BECAUSE WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE GARAGE, IT HAS TO BE 25 FEET BACK.
BUT IF YOU BUILD A HOME WITH NO GARAGE, CAN YOU DO IT AT 15 ALL THE WAY ACROSS? 'CAUSE THAT'S YOUR, THAT'S YOUR FRONT SETBACK.
THE PARKING SPACE WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE 20 FEET AND NOT, AND NOT ENCROACH IN THE SETBACK.
SO DOES, DO WE NEED TO BE CONSISTENT WHETHER THERE'S A GARAGE OR NOT? DO WE JUST NEED TO MAKE THE PARKING SPACE 25 FEET LONG? ONE OF THE REASONS WE MADE IT 20.
SO RIGHT NOW OUR PARKING A NORMAL PARKING, UM, SPACE OR STANDARDS PARKING, PARKING SPACE IN BAYTOWN, WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL.
'CAUSE IT'S ALL THE SAME VEHICLES IS 18 BY NINE.
SO WE ARE ACTUALLY EXPANDING THE SIZE OF IT A LITTLE BIT.
'CAUSE THAT'S KIND OF A STANDARD.
YOU 18 BY NINE OR 10 BY 20, WE'D LIKE TO PUSH IT TO 10, MAY 20 BECAUSE WE SEE THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, IF WE MADE A 25 TO PUSH IT TO 25 EVERYWHERE, WHICH WOULD MAKE SENSE AT THAT POINT WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC.
I THINK YOU'RE SAYING EVERYWHERE, MEANING RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL.
SO CAN WE JUST DO THE RESIDENTIAL PARKING SPOT IS LARGER.
STEVE, CAN YOU HEAR THAT? HE DOESN'T WANT, I JUST DON'T THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO SAY IF YOU HAVE A GARAGE, YOU NEED 25.
BUT IF IT'S NO GARAGE AND YOU'RE DEFINITELY GONNA BE PARKED UP, COUNCIL CAN DIRECT WHAT YOU WANT.
THE STAFF IS GIVEN A RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT OUR BEST PRACTICES.
IF Y'ALL WANNA CHANGE TO 25 FEET, THE HEAD NOD, WE CAN CHANGE THE 25 25 RESIDENT.
AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS JUST TO, TO RESOLVE THE, THE 25 FOOT MM-HMM
SO I MEAN TO COUNCILMAN POWELL'S POINT, IT'S NOT THE GARAGE YOU'RE REGULATING, YOU'RE REGULATING THE PAD REALLY IS WHAT WE'RE DOING.
AND SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A CONSENSUS.
IS IT A MINIMUM OF 20 OR 25 IS ALL WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW.
PARKING SPACES FOR RESIDENTIAL? FOR RESIDENTIAL.
IF YOU HAVE A DRIVEWAY, WHATEVER, DOESN'T THE DUMB GARAGE NOT, IT NEEDS TO BE 25 FEET.
SO YOU'RE NOT ENCROACHING INTO A AREA.
ARE WE GOOD ON THAT? BECAUSE I MEAN, THIS IS LIKE, YEAH, WE'RE GOOD ON THAT ONE NOW.
WE'LL ON ANOTHER SIDE, BUT OKAY.
I GUESS GO BACK TO THE PREVIOUS LINE.
I GET, WE DON'T, I GET 10 FOOT A LOT.
I GET, YOU KNOW, FIVE NOT THAT MUCH, BUT I DO KIND OF LIKE PARA LAND.
I KNOW YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT PEOPLE BEING SIDE BY SIDE AT FIVE FEET, THAT'S BASICALLY HERE TO THAT WALL.
OH, YOU'RE SAYING THE INTERIOR SIDE SETBACK.
SO I MEAN, IT GIVES YOU 10 FOOT FROM YOUR WALL TO YOUR NEIGHBOR'S WALL
[00:20:01]
VERSUS 15 FEET FROM YOUR WALL TO YOUR INTERIOR NEIGHBOR'S.WALL 20 IS GONNA BE, IS NOT WHERE EVERYBODY'S GOING AWAY FROM THE 10.
BUT THE SEVEN AND A HALF IS A REASONABLE COMPROMISE.
I HAVE NO HEARTBURN WITH FIVE.
I THINK THE BIG DIFFERENCE HERE IS THAT IF YOU CHOOSE TO BUY A HOUSE THAT'S CLOSE TO YOUR NEIGHBOR, THAT'S UP TO YOU.
THE PARKING, YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.
I MEAN, THIS IS OTHER RESIDENTS WALKING BY THAT ARE HAVING THE ISSUE WITH WALKING.
I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I'M, I'M FINE WITH THAT.
BUT YOU'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT WHEN THE DEVELOPERS COME IN, THEY'RE NOT GONNA GIVE YOU THE OPTION OF ANY OPTION IN HERE TO COME BACK, LOOK FOR A SEVEN AND A HALF FOOT.
SO YOU'RE ALWAYS GONNA HAVE THE DEVELOPER LOOKING FOR THE FIVE ONLY.
BUT YOU'RE SHOPPING IN THAT AREA KNOWING THAT.
BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE AN OPTION.
YOU'RE NEVER GONNA BE DEVELOPER'S NOT GONNA COME IN WITH A AND SAY, OH, WELL I'M GONNA PUT MAKE THESE 10.
HE'S ALWAYS GONNA HAVE THE FIVE NO MATTER WHAT.
BUT IF HE SAYS THERE'S SEVEN AND A HALF, BUT WE WANNA MAKE 'EM FIVE, HE CAN COME TO COUNCIL AND ASK US.
AND IT, IT'S GOING, IT IS GONNA DEPEND ON IT IS JUST THE MINIMUM THOUGH.
SO I MEAN, YEAH, IT'S, HE'S NEVER GONNA GET THE MAXIMUM.
IT'S GONNA DEPEND ON THE PRODUCT THAT THEY WANT TO PUT IN THAT, IN THAT PROJECT.
SO THERE MAY BE SOME OPTIONS DEPENDING ON, SO I'VE GOT SOME 40 FOOT LOTS, I GOT SOME 45 FOOT LOTS.
AND IT'LL DEPEND ON, I WANNA PUT A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, OR I WANNA PUT 3000 SQUARE FEET.
IT, IT'LL ALL BE DOWN TO THAT.
SO, UH, BUT I'D RATHER THE DEVELOPER COME ASK COUNCIL TO MAKE THAT, TO SAY, HEY, WELL, THEY ENTER INTO A PUD THEN IT'S, IT'S, UM, IT'S AN AGREEMENT WE CAN MAKE WITH 'EM TO SAY, HEY, WE, WE'LL ALLOW YOU THE FIVE.
SO WAIT, I, I WILL, SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP THE PS, I, I DO WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.
UM, AS WE GET INTO SOME OF THIS.
AND, AND THERE ARE SOME THINGS WHERE WE'RE, UM, NUMBER ONE, I, I THINK, UM, ONE OF YOU JUST BROUGHT UP THE FACT THAT THEY CAN DO BIGGER IF THEY WANT TO.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I REALLY WANT TO POINT OUT WITH THE SMALLER LOT SIZES, THE SMALLER SETBACKS, THESE ARE THE MINIMUMS. THERE'S NOTHING KEEPING THEM FROM DOING BIGGER IF THEY WANT TO.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IS JUST KIND OF THE MARKET HERE IN, IN BAYTOWN.
WE DON'T GET REQUESTS FOR BIG LOTS FROM DEVELOPERS.
THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE SELLING.
AND EVEN IN MONT BELLEVUE, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE SELLING A LOT OF.
THEY'RE SELLING THOSE EVEN 40 FOOT LOTS TO 50 FOOT BOTS.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE, THE MARKET RIGHT NOW.
SO WE DON'T WANT TO PUSH TO A CERTAIN POINT WHERE, NUMBER ONE, WE'RE PUSHING UP THE DEVELOPMENT PRICE, THE COST.
AND WE ALSO, WE DON'T WANT TO PUSH THEM TO GO LOOKING FOR PUDS EVERY TIME BECAUSE THEY WANT PREDICTABILITY.
THEY WANT BAYTOWN TO BE PREDICTABLE.
WE WANT BAYTOWN TO BE PREDICTABLE.
A PUD BY NATURE IS NEGOTIATED EVERY TIME, AND IT'S ALWAYS A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND IT REALLY KIND OF MOVES THE, IT, IT, IT, IT BECOMES A MUCH MORE FLOATY, UM, PROCESS, UH, IF THAT'S A WORD.
UM, SO WE WOULD, WE WOULD PREFER, AGAIN, THIS IS STAFF RECOMMENDATION.
WE CAN DO WHATEVER THE CONSENSUS IS.
THE, THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF IS TO, TO KEEP IT AT THOSE SMALLER NUMBERS.
AND IF THEY WANT DO LARGER, THEY CAN.
AS MY PREFERENCE, BUT I'M OKAY WITH FIVE FEET.
THEY CAN DO BIGGER IF THEY'D LIKE.
UM, SO RYAN HAS POINTED OUT TO ME ON THE, THE, UM, IN, UH, DIVISION 2.2, ONE DASH ONE, UH, SETBACKS RELATED TO DRIVEWAYS AND GARAGES.
SO AGAIN, WE'RE STILL LEARNING THE CODE.
UM, MINIMUM SETBACK OF 25 FEET SHALL APPLY WHERE A DRIVEWAY PROVIDES ACCESS ON A RESIDENTIAL PRO PROPERTY FROM STREET OTHER THAN AN ALLEY.
THIS MAINTAINS AN ADEQUATELY SIZED PARKING SPACE.
OKAY, SO ON THE, ON THE SIDE YARD SETBACK, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT FIVE FOOT, SEVEN AND A HALF WITH, WITH OUR CONSENSUS.
I THINK THE GENERAL CONSENSUS HERE SOUNDS, WELL, I DON'T PARTICULARLY CARE FOR THE, WHAT, BOB'S ALMOST A ZERO LOT LINE, BUT I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF A STANDARD.
YOU KNOW, DEALT WITH OTHER CITIES THAT BUILT HALF MILLION DOLLAR HOMES THAT YOU COULD SHAKE EACH OTHER'S HANDS OUTSIDE THE WINDOWS.
SO I, I SOMEWHAT AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE HERE THAT SEVEN AND A HALF FOOT, YOU CAN'T HARDLY GET, IF THEY HAVE A PRIVACY FENCE BETWEEN THEM, YOU CAN'T HARDLY GET A GATE IN THERE.
SO I, I CAN SEE THE POINT THAT FIVE FOOT I THINK IS, IS KIND OF A MINIMAL STANDARD.
I, I, I'D LIKE TO SEE IT BIGGER, BUT I, I CAN SEE THE ARGUMENTS EITHER WAY.
AGAIN, YOU, YOU CAN'T EVEN PUT, OR IF YOU PUT A GATE, IT'S A FOUR FOOT GATE, WHICH MEANS YOU CAN'T GET, HARDLY GET YOUR MOWER THROUGH IT.
SO THAT LIMITS ACCESS TO THE BACKYARDS, UH, FROM THE FRONT.
SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST THINKING FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT.
SO IF YOU HAVE A FIVE FOOT, IT'S
[00:25:01]
A PUSH MOW SIDE.I CAN TAKE YOU, YOU CAN WEED IT.
I CAN MOW MY FRONT LAWN IN 12 MINUTES.
I DON'T, I HAVEN'T HAD ONE OF THOSE.
CAN'T GET RIDING THROUGH THERE.
SO I THINK THE CONSENSUS I HEARD WAS WE CAN LEAVE IT AT FIVE.
I THINK A MINIMUM FIVE IS, IS FAIR.
I THINK LET THE MARKET DETERMINE ANYTHING BIGGER.
CAN WE SETTLE ON THE 15 FOOT DOWN SINCE Y'ALL I THINK WE DID ON THE FRONT.
IT, IT WAS MAINLY, IT WASN'T THE, I GUESS THE FRONT SETBACK 15 FEET IS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE BUILDING.
I THINK, I THINK THE HEARTBURN HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE GARAGE.
WE GOT, WE KEEP SAYING GARAGE.
IT'S ACTUALLY THE AMOUNT OF SPACE AVAILABLE, THE PAD PARKING.
SO, SO, AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE'VE ALREADY GOT SOME OF THAT BUILT IN, BUT WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK AND MAKE SURE THAT THAT LANGUAGE COVERS EVERYTHING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
I'M JUST GONNA BE HONEST, SAYING NOBODY GONNA HAVE A HOUSE AND THEN 10 FOOT BACK OF GARAGE, IT'S GONNA BE, THE HOUSES ARE GONNA BE 20 FOOT BACK AND THAT'S OKAY.
USUALLY YES, THEY'RE GONNA BE 20, 25.
NEW DEVELOPMENTS ARE NOT ACTUALLY, I DON'T THINK WHAT WE'RE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT IS THOSE ONE-OFFS THAT WE TRY TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
SO, AND WE'LL, WE CAN WATCH FOR THAT STUFF.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE? 'CAUSE WE GOT, WE WANT TO KEEP MOVING IF WE CAN.
UM, THIS IS SOME OF THAT SAME INFORMATION.
THIS IS, AGAIN, THESE ARE MINIMUM LOSS SIZES.
SO WE HAVE DIFFERENT OPTIONS AVAILABLE.
THE ESTATE RESIDENTIAL IS IT, THAT'S CURRENTLY ONE ACRE, IT'S GONNA STAY ONE ACRE.
THE SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL IS OUR SF ONE.
UH, THAT'S QUARTER OF AN ACRE NOW.
IT'S GONNA STAY A QUARTER OF AN ACRE.
THE MIXED RESIDENTIAL IS ONE WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT.
IT'S 5,000 SQUARE FOOT VERSUS IF IT'S INFILLED THEN IT'S GONNA BE 35 BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME SMALLER LOTS LIKE IN, UM, IN DISTRICT ONE AND IN DISTRICT TWO THAT WOULD NEVER MEET THAT 5,000 SQUARE FOOT TO BEGIN WITH.
UM, AND THEN THE URBAN RESIDENTIAL, UM, THIS ONE'S A LITTLE TRICKIER BECAUSE URBAN RESIDENTIAL IS MOSTLY GONNA BE OUR MF ONE, MF TWO, UM, TYPE OR MF TWO, MF THREE TYPE.
SO CALLING IT A SQUARE FOOTAGE MINIMUM IS A BIT OF A, IT'S REALLY HARD.
I WAS HARDLY TO REALLY ASSIGN ANY OF IT, BUT IT IS A LITTLE BIT TRICKY.
IT'S MORE ABOUT DENSITIES AND HOW THAT WORKS.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE THE ALTERNATIVE RESIDENTIAL, WHICH RIGHT NOW IS OUR URBAN, UH, URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, THAT'S WHERE WE CAN ALLOW MANUFACTURED HOMES.
'CAUSE THE ONLY PLACE IN TOWN WE CAN ALLOW NEW MANUFACTURED HOMES.
UM, AND, UH, WITH THAT, RIGHT NOW, THOSE ARE STILL, THOSE ARE AT A 5,400 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM, BUT ALMOST NONE OF THEM ARE BECAUSE THEY WERE CREATED PRIOR TO THE CODE.
SO WE FEEL THAT THE 2,500 IS STILL A PRETTY GOOD, UM, A A, A GOOD AVERAGE FOR THOSE.
UM, AS WELL AS THE COTTAGE COURT.
THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING WHERE THE, THE STRUCTURES, THE HOUSES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SMALLER AND THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SORT OF CLUSTERED TOGETHER.
UM, IT ALSO PROVIDES FOR, IF YOU'RE DOING A 2000 SQUARE FOOT LOT, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE MORE OPEN SPACE AROUND IT.
SO I'M GONNA DO, UM, YOU KNOW, 10 LOTS ON TWO, 2000 SQUARE FOOT A PIECE.
THEN I HAVE TO PROVIDE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF OPEN SPACE TO GO WITH THAT TO MAKE UP FOR IT.
THE, THE WHOLE, IF YOU THINK OF LIKE A, THINK OF PATIO HOMES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE YOU HAVE FOUR OF 'EM THAT BACK UP TO THE STATE COURTYARD, THAT TYPE OF THING.
BUT IT ALSO IS, UM, WE'RE GETTING REQUESTS FOR DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THIS ON SMALLER LOTS, ESPECIALLY IN OLDER PARTS OF TOWN TO SAY WE REALLY WANT TO TAKE WHAT'S THERE AND SPRUCE IT UP AND MAKE IT NICER.
BUT WE, BUT WE HAVE THESE, YOU KNOW, 2000, 2,500 SQUARE FOOT LOTS THAT ARE ALREADY EXISTING.
WHAT DO WE DO? I HAD ONE COME IN RECENTLY AND SAY, I GOT 6,000 SQUARE FOOT, I'D LIKE TO PUT FOUR LOTS ON.
AND THE PRODUCT HE WAS DESCRIBING TO ME ACTUALLY SOUNDED LIKE A MAJOR UPGRADE FOR THAT, FOR THAT AREA.
AND I HAD TO TELL HIM LIKE, WELL, WE'RE WORKING ON SOME THINGS, MAYBE THIS WILL BE DOABLE NEXT YEAR.
BUT FOR NOW, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN DO IN BAYTOWN.
UM, WE DON'T GET A LOT OF TINY HOME REQUESTS, BUT IT IS GENERALLY KNOWN THAT YOU CAN'T DO THESE LITTLE BITTY LOTS.
SO IF YOU WANTED TO DO A TINY HOME, YOU CAN DO IT.
THERE'S NO MINIMUM, UM, STRUCTURE SIZE, THERE'S NO MINIMUM OF HOUSE SIZE.
YOU COULD DO A TINY HOME, BUT IF YOU WANTED TO DO LIKE A SUBDIVISION OF TINY HOMES, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT ABILITY.
THIS WOULD ALLOW FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO I A QUESTION MAYOR.
YOU MADE THE COMMENT THAT OKAY, IF THEY BUILD ON THAT 2000 SQUARE LOT, THEN THE DEVELOPER HAS TO PROVIDE OPEN SPACE.
HOW MUCH OF IT, USING YOUR EXAMPLE, HE'S GOT A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT AND HE WANTS TO PUT 2000 SQUARE FOOT REDIVIDE IT.
SO ARE YOU GONNA SAY, OKAY, YOU CAN PUT TWO OF THEM ON THERE IN IN LEAD 2000 SQUARE FOOT? YEAH.
AND SO I JUST KIND OF THREW IT OUT AS AN EXAMPLE.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THE EXAMPLE, BUT, BUT SO IS THERE A FORMULA THAT WOULD BE USED OR THERE IS THAT JUST SOMETHING THAT IS OFF THE CUFF? AND I SAY IT THAT WAY.
SO FOR OUR ALTERNATIVE RESIDENTIAL, UH, WE REQUIRE 30% OPEN SPACE ON THE LOT.
[00:30:01]
SO THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE, SO IN IT DI 2000 SQUARE FOOT PLUS THE 30%, NO, THAT WOULD BE, THAT'S JUST GONNA CAP WHAT THEY CAN DO ON THE, THE, SO 2000 SQUARE FOOT, 30% HAS TO BE OPEN.YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN EIGHT OR 900 SQUARE FOOT RESIDENTIAL HOME.
SO, BUT, BUT THERE'S ALSO, IF IT'S A SUBDIVISION, SO THAT'S ON ONE LOT.
THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE THAT IT HAS TO BE THAT'S, THAT'S TINY THAT IT IS.
MY WIFE LIKES THE TINY HOME STUFF.
SO RIGHT NOW, AGAIN, THE ONLY THING THAT WILL BE ZONED TO THIS ALTERNATIVE RESIDENTIAL IS ANYTHING THAT IS CURRENTLY ZONED TO URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS ALL MANUFACTURED HOMES.
SO WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IS THE POTENTIAL CHANGE FROM WHAT IS NOW MANUFACTURED HOME TO EITHER A NEWER MANUFACTURED HOME OR SOME SORT OF COTTAGE HOME OR A TINY HOME.
WE DON'T USE THE TINY HOME IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, BUT THAT IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SO, SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S GOTTA HAVE 603 2000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.
30% OF IT HAS TO BE OPEN SPACE, WHICH IS 600 SQUARE FEET.
THESE ARE DOWN 1400 SQUARE FEET.
THEN YOU GOTTA PUT 250 SQUARE FEET OF YOUR DRIVEWAY AT LEAST.
RIGHT? SAY THAT AGAIN, I'M SORRY.
SO IT LEAVES YOU WITH 1100 SQUARE FOOT FOR A FOOTPRINT OF THE HOUSE AND THINK THAT NO YARD AND NO YARD.
AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE SETBACKS.
SO AGAIN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE 1100 SQUARE FOOT, UH, FOOTPRINT.
MAYBE I'M LOOKING AT DOING A 500 FOOTPRINT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? WE'RE TALKING LITTLE BIDDING THINGS.
SO 1100 IS ACTUALLY NOT EVEN A TINY HUMP.
PUT YOUR SETBACKS AND EVERYTHING DOWN TO, I THINK, BUT THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE CHOOSE TO BUY.
THAT'S THE POINT OF THIS WHOLE THING THEY WANT TO LIVE ON.
I'M GONNA ASK THE CONSULTANT TO JUMP IN ON THIS ONE.
'CAUSE I I DON'T HAVE THE SPECIFIC ONE.
I, I WOULD THINK THAT SOMEHOW YOU SET ASIDE EITHER A PERCENTAGE OF GREEN SPACE OR WHATEVER, I DON'T KNOW.
THERE HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF RATIO TO DETERMINE THAT.
BUT CAN EVERYBODY HEAR ME OKAY? YES, YES, YES.
SO A COUPLE DIFFERENT THINGS WITH THE COTTAGE COURT.
IN THE SUBDIVISION STANDARDS, THERE ARE, SO THAT DESIGN STANDARDS THAT APPLY TO THE COTTAGE COURT APPROACH.
AND SO YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A PARKING PAD IN FRONT OF EACH, EACH HOUSE.
EACH HOUSE WILL ACTUALLY FRONT UPON THE OPEN SPACE THAT THE HOUSE, THE GARAGE AND PARKING WILL BE AT EXCESS FROM AN ALLEY.
SO IF YOU GO TO, IF YOU GO TO 4.22 THERE, THERE'S AN EXAMPLE THERE.
UM, SO ARE THEY, AND THEN THE SETBACKS ARE, ARE GONNA BE BASED, ARE UPON THE, THE FRONT SETBACKS WOULD BE BASED UPON HOW IT FRONTS ON THE OPEN SPACE TYPICALLY.
UH, JUST WE NEED TO CHECK AND MAKE SURE THAT'S EXPLICIT.
BUT THAT IS TYPICALLY HOW THOSE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENTS, UH, ARE DESIGNED.
ALSO, IF THAT HELPS THE VISUALIZATION OF IT.
SO TO THINK ABOUT IT FROM A CONVENTIONAL, UM, DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, LIKE A SUBDIVISION WHERE YOU HAVE EACH HOUSE RUNNING ON THE STREET AND THE OPEN SPACE MIGHT BE INCIDENTAL TO THE, TO THE, TO THE, THE INDIVIDUAL HOUSES.
THE, THE, THE COURTYARD OF WHICH THE HOUSE IS FRONT IS, IS CENTRAL TO EACH HOUSE.
AND SO, SO IT'S A DIFFERENT, VERY DIFFERENT SETUP.
AND, AND FURTHERMORE, THE, THE COMMON OPEN SPACE OF BE REQUIRED FOR A COLLEGE COURT SUBDIVISION WOULD ALSO REQUIRE 30% OF THE OVERALL SUBDIVISION HAS TO BE OPEN SPACE.
SO EACH OF THE SUBDIVISION TYPES ALSO DOES GO FURTHER INTO WHAT THE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS ARE.
SO AGAIN, AS YOU, AS YOU GET MORE DENSE, WE'RE ACTUALLY REQUIRING YOU TO PROVIDE US MORE OPEN SPACE.
WE, WE FOUND MARK, WE GOT, OKAY.
Y'ALL, Y'ALL MAY HAVE A VERSION BEFORE WE RENUMBERED IT.
IT SAYS EVERYTHING
SO YEAH, JUST A REMINDER THAT ALL OF THIS MAY BE IN VAIN, JUST BECAUSE IF THE STATE CHANGES THINGS IN A FEW MONTHS, THEN ALL OF THE, ALL OF THIS GOES AWAY.
SO THAT'S, THIS IS THE, THE DIAGRAM THAT STEVE WAS MENTIONING.
SO HOPEFULLY THAT HELPS A LITTLE BIT KIND OF GET THE VISION OF, OF WHAT KIND OF WHAT THIS IS MEANT TO LOOK AND,
[00:35:01]
AND FEEL LIKE, KIND OF LIKE THE OLD DAYS OF OLIVE COURTS.AND IF YOU'RE, LIKE, IF YOU'RE REFERRING TO, THERE'S A CONCEPTUAL DESIGN IN FOUR POINT, THE SUBDIVISION STANDARDS.
BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO AN INDIVIDUAL LOT HOW THAT WOULD LOOK IN SUBSECTION 2.2, ONE DASH SIX THERE IN THE ALTERNATIVE RESIDENTIAL.
SO THAT KIND OF GIVES HOW THESE SETBACKS ARE MEASURED.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A GRAPHIC, UH, AT THE, AT THE BOTTOM BELOW THE, THE DIMENSIONAL STANDARD TABLE MARK ALTERNATIVE.
THEN TALKING ABOUT THE ILLUSTRATION.
JUST ONE THAT ACTUALLY SHOWS THEY BREAK IT.
THIS IS, THIS IS DEFINITELY A NEW THING FOR BAY.
SO THIS IS, UH, IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE SCARY, BUT WE DO WANT TO PROVIDE FOR OPTIONS.
THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF, THAT'S THE HIT.
AND WHAT WAS THE BRIEF WE GOT LIKE, THIS IS A FAST SELLING PRODUCT IN THE SAN ANTONIO AREA RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S THE LENAR IS BUILDING THEM.
SOME OF THE NATIONAL HOME BUILDERS ACTUALLY BUILDING THESE.
LENAR IS THE ONE LEADING THIS.
AND THEY'RE THE ONES, THE FRENCHWOOD BUILDING.
HOW MANY, HOW MANY SLIDES DO WE HAVE? A FEW MORE.
SO OVERALL, THE QUESTION ON, ON THIS SECTION OF, OF SLIDES WAS ARE WE OKAY WITH THE MINIMUM LOT SIZES THAT WE HAVE PRESENTED IN THE DRAFT? AND WE GOT SOME THINGS THAT WE'RE GONNA MAKE SURE ON THE SETBACKS, BUT ON THE MINIMUM LOT SIZES, WE GOT GENERAL HEAD NODS.
YEAH, I THINK THOSE SEEM LIKE, OKAY, LIKE YOU SAID, WE MAY HAVE TO REVISIT LATER IN, IN IMPLEMENTATION, BUT I'VE GOT MY CONCERNS AND, AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BUT I'LL, I'LL GO OBVIOUSLY WITH THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY COUNCIL, BUT I, I UNDERSTAND THAT MAY BE A TREND IN SOME AREAS, BUT IS IT A TREND THAT WE WANT TO PUSH HERE? IF IF THE CONSENSUS MAJORITY CONSENSUS IS YES THEN, OR ALL RIGHT.
I, I'VE GOT MY CONCERNS WITH THAT.
UM, WELL WE DID THAT WHOLE HOUSING STUDY, AND SO WE HAVE TO BE OPEN FOR ADDITIONAL TYPES OF HOMES.
WE DON'T HAVE THE AMOUNT OF FOOTPRINT THAT BELVIEW HAS.
AND, AND SO THAT'S WHY SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD APPLY IN OUR COMMUNITY.
AND SO REMEMBER WE'RE, WE'RE NOT APPLYING OUR OWN PREFERENTIAL STANDARDS, BUT, UM, I MAY NOT LIVE IN A TINY HOME.
THERE'S NO WAY I WOULD LIVE IN THE TINY HOME, WHICH IS MESSED UP.
I HAVE, BUT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT OTHERS AND ACCORDING TO WHAT, UM, SOME OF THE RESPONSES HAVE BEEN ON, ON THE HOUSING STUDY THAT WE DID.
SO I, I'M REALLY GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE THIS ACTUALLY, THIS WAS DONE WITH THE HOUSING STUDY AS PART OF THE BACKGROUND, UM, DATA THAT WENT INTO IT.
UM, PART OF THAT WAS THAT WE NEED MORE APARTMENT COMPLEXES TOO.
AND I THINK THERE'S A PRETTY CONSENSUS THAT WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN THAT.
WELL, WE HAVE A RADIUS, SO, BUT WE'VE, WE'VE DONE THAT ALREADY, BUT THE STUDY SHOWED WE NEEDED MORE APARTMENTS, SO, WELL, I THINK WE NEED TO, I DON'T THINK IT WAS THAT THE RADIUS ISSUE AND MOVE FORWARD WITH APARTMENTS, BUT, AND THAT'S JUST THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN.
SO, BUT I, I'VE GOT MY CONCERNS.
I UNDERSTAND THAT IT MAY, MAY BE THE ISSUE THAT I JUST GOT.
I TO SEE A LOT OF THE OLDER PARTS OF TOWN WITH SMALLER LOTS, AGAIN, 40 YEARS FROM NOW, THEY'D BE DEALING WITH THOSE SMALLER LOTS AND THE HOUSES HAVE TO BE RENOVATED OR WHATEVER, AND THERE'S NO OPTION AT THAT POINT.
THEY'D HAVE TO STAY TINY AND, AND GO ON, OR THEY HAVE TO BUY MULTIPLE LOTS OR WHATEVER.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA LOOK THAT FAR DOWN THE ROAD AS WELL.
[00:40:01]
WE STAFF HAS DISCUSSED AND RECOMMENDS IF THERE ARE PARTS OF TOWN THAT YOU'D LIKE TO STAY LARGE A LOT, YOU COULD REZONE THOSE TO LIKE A STATE RESIDENTIAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT SO THAT THEY WOULD STAY LARGER LOT UNTIL WHATEVER TIME THEY SHOULD COME IN AND, AND LOOK FOR, FOR A REZONE.THAT'S, BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'RE PREPARED TO DO AS PART OF THIS PROCESS.
I'M NOT LEANING TOWARDS WHAT THE SURROUNDING CITY DID WITH THREE QUARTER ACRE LOTS, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S NOT WHERE I'M LEANING AT ALL.
NO, THAT'S, I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT LESS THAN 5,400 SQUARE FOOT LOTS.
AS YOU DRIVE THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE THOSE SMALL LOTS.
I MEAN, THEY'RE PACKED IN THERE PRETTY TIGHT.
AND NOW WE'RE GONNA SAY, WELL, WE COULD OB OBVIOUSLY DOUBLE THAT.
DO, DO WE REALLY WANT TO PACK 'EM IN THERE? RIGHT.
SO DON'T IN LINE WITH, LET'S SAY, UH, COUNCILMAN'S CONCERN HERE.
SO WHEN THIS IS ZONED, IT'S ONLY GONNA BE ABLE TO BE IN CERTAIN AREAS.
AND WE'D HAVE TO PROVE IT AND GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS.
I'M MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT KNOWING THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT JUST AN OPEN RANGE FOR THIS.
ANYTHING THAT'S SF TWO NOW STILL WOULD HAVE A 5,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM BOTTOM LINE, UH, SF OR, UM, AND THEN ANYTHING THAT'S IN THE MULTIFAMILY OR, UM, THE URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT JUST NOW, THOSE ARE ALREADY VERY SMALL LOTS, WHICH THEY CAN COME IN AND BUILD ON THOSE LOTS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PERFORMING AND WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T JUST SAY NO, THEY HAVE TO MEET ALL THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS.
THEY HAVE TO MEET ALL THE SETBACKS AND THINGS, BUT THEY CAN STILL, THEY CAN STILL DO SMALL STRUCTURES ON.
NOW WE'RE GONNA TRY AND, AND GET THROUGH SOME OF THIS OTHER STUFF.
UM, THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
THERE WERE TWO QUESTIONS ABOUT, ACTUALLY THREE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
UM, ACCESSORY STRUCTURE LARGER THAN THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.
SO RIGHT NOW THE CODE SAYS IF YOU HAVE AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, SO A BARN, IT CAN'T BE LARGER THAN YOUR HOUSE.
UM, IN ANY CASE, WHAT WE HAVE PROPOSED IS THAT IF YOU HAVE TWO ACRES OR MORE, YOU CAN HAVE A BARN THAT'S THAT'S BIGGER THAN YOUR HOUSE.
UM, WE HAD A, WE HAD A VARIANCE HAPPEN LIKE TWO YEARS AGO THAT WHERE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ACTUALLY ALLOWED FOR THAT BECAUSE THEY SAID IT'S A BIG LOT, IT HAS ABOUT TWO ACRES AND IT MAKES MORE SENSE TO ALLOW FOR A, IT'S LIKE A BIG GARAGE THAT THE GUY WANTED TO PUTZ AROUND AND DO WHATEVER IN HIS GARAGE.
SO THEY SAID, OKAY, THAT'S FINE.
AND WE AT THE TIME SAID, OUR CODE IS NOT SOPHISTICATED ENOUGH TO DO THAT, BUT WE'D LIKE TO BUILD SOMETHING IN.
I THINK THE QUESTION WAS CAN WE REDUCE THAT TWO ACRES TO ONE ACRE? IF THERE'S A CONSENSUS FROM THE COUNCIL STAFF'S FINE WITH THE ONE ACRE.
UM, I'M GOOD WITH THE ONE ACRE, ONE ACRE STILL PRETTY BIG.
SO IT'S 44,000 SQUARE FEET IS ACRE ROUGHLY.
SO IF I GET HEAD NODS ON ONE ACRE, IT SOUNDS OKAY.
WELL, WELL HOW MANY ONE AC LOTS LARGER ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S, UH, SEE MY, IN SOME OF MY DISCUSSIONS WITH RYAN WAS, YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT CAN'T BE LARGER THAN THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE OR SO FORTH.
SO I'VE GOT A, I I'M ON AN ACRE AND I'VE GOT A THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT HOUSE.
I'M GONNA BUILD A 3000 SQUARE FOOT BARN.
I GOT 44,000 SQUARE FEET TO PLAY WITH ACCORDING TO THE CODE.
SO MY POINT IN DISCUSSING WITH HIM WAS MAKING A PERCENTAGE OF THE AVAILABLE SPACE AFTER ALL THE SETBACKS SO THAT ON MY 5,400 SQUARE FOOT LOT, SAME, SAME CALCULATION.
YOU HAVE 5,400 SQUARE FEET AFTER ALL SETBACKS, YOU ONLY HAVE SO MUCH AVAILABLE SPACE.
IT CAN ONLY BE A PERCENTAGE OF THAT AVAILABLE SPACE, BUT IT COULD BE AS LARGE AS THAT.
UM, RYAN'S LOOKING AT THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT I BELIEVE THERE IS A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH LARGER IT CAN BE THAT IN THE HOUSE AND IT, AND IT'S KIND OF LIKE THAT IT'S A PERCENTAGE OF, BUT IF I'VE GOT A, AGAIN, 44,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT THAT'S RESIDENTIAL.
SO I'M GONNA BUILD A BIG, BIG BARN.
SO FOR TWO ACRES OR MORE, UM, THE SUM OF, AND WE'LL GET INTO THE NEXT PART HERE IN A SECOND, BUT WE'LL JUST SAY THE SUM OF ALL ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, UM, MAY EXCEED THE GROSS SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE OF THE LOT.
BUT, UM, YEAH, THAT'S ALL IT SAYS IN HERE REALLY, BECAUSE WE'D HAVE TO CHANGE SOME STUFF AROUND BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FARMS. OH, SO DOES IT NOT LIMIT IT? NO, IT JUST SAYS YOU CAN'T EXCEED IT THEN THERE, SO THERE'S NO LIMIT AND I GUESS THERE'S NO LIMIT.
SO THE PURPOSE, THAT'S NOT THE WAY I READ IT.
SO IT COULD BE TWO STORY, IT COULD BE A THREE STORY BARN, BUT WE, WE STILL HAVE A HEIGHT LIMIT, I THINK IS 35 FEET IN OUR RESIDENTIAL.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S STILL A LOCK COVERAGE MAXIMUM, WHICH I THINK IS 60% IN RESIDENTIAL THAT WOULD STAY.
SO I MEAN, 60% OF 44,000 WAS A, A LOT A HUGE FACILITY AND I WOULDN'T
[00:45:01]
ADVOCATE TO BE THAT BIG ANYWAY.AND IT WOULD BE THE TOTAL OF ANY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
SO IF YOU'VE GOT A BARN, A SHED, A GARAGE AND A POOL, IT WOULD BE ALL THOSE TOGETHER.
SO, UM, SO IF THAT SOUNDS OKAY.
UM, THE OTHER PIECE THERE TOO IS THE LANGUAGE SPECIFICALLY SAYS BARNES AND STABLES, UM, WE'RE RECOMMENDING WE JUST CHANGE IT TO ANY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
IT JUST MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER TO, TO ADMINISTER ANY, ANY OF THE LISTED APPROVED ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
HAVE, I DON'T HAVE A DISAGREEMENT WITH THAT LIST AT ALL EITHER, IS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
WE WOULD JUST REFER BACK TO THE DEFINITION.
THE THE OTHER THING, IF I CAN, AND YOU MAY BE GONNA ADDRESS IT, IS THE TIMING OF THE ACCESSORY BUILDING.
WHY ARE WE SO CONCERNED? OH, THAT'S THE NEXT ONE.
SO LET, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT ONE A LITTLE BIT.
RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN'T HAVE A BARN OR A GARAGE.
LET'S SAY I'M GONNA BUILD A CARPORT, RIGHT? THIS IS OUR EXAMPLE.
I WANT TO STORE MY RV, BUT I HAVEN'T BUILT MY HOUSE.
I'M GONNA BUILD MY HOUSE A YEAR FROM NOW OR MAYBE, MAYBE A YEAR FROM NOW.
MAYBE NOT FOR 10 YEARS, IS RIGHT NOW.
OUR CODE DOES NOT ALLOW FOR THAT.
DO NOT ALLOW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE UNTIL A PRIMARY STRUCTURE IS IS ON THE, ON THE, UH, PROPERTY.
SO WE WANTED TO TALK THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT.
SO RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT ALLOWED.
YOU DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND GET OUT AHEAD OF YOURSELF AND THEN CAN'T FINISH THE PROJECT OR JUST REALLY NEVER HAD A, AN INTENT TO DO SO.
UM, WHAT THAT HAPPENS IS CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUES, IT ALMOST ALWAYS, IT RESULTS IN CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUES.
IT'S VERY, VERY, UH, I DON'T WANNA SAY COMMON.
IT'S VERY LIKELY THAT IT WILL END IN CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUES.
YOU'VE GOT A STORAGE STRUCTURE, YOU'VE GOT UNREGULATED OUTDOOR STORAGE, UNPERMITTED PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN STRUCTURES THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIVE IN.
THEY MIGHT BE DOING AN UNPERMITTED BUSINESS.
I BUILT A GARAGE, SO NOW I'M GONNA DO A, A MECHANIC BUSINESS OUT OF MY GARAGE.
WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING A MECHANIC AND THING ANYWAY IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
SO I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.
WE JUST KNOW THAT ON THE BACK SIDE OF THIS, IT ALWAYS CAUSES PROBLEMS IN EVERY COMMUNITY I'VE EVER WORKED IN, IT ALWAYS CAUSES PROBLEMS, BUT, BUT, BUT WE, AS YOU PREFACE THAT, WE HAVE CURRENT CODES THAT ADDRESS THAT.
SO BY THIS ULDC SAYING YOU CAN'T HAVE AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE FOR PRIMARY, WE'RE TRYING TO OVERREACH WHAT MAY HAPPEN AND NOT WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
AND I'VE GOT PROBLEMS WITH THAT.
I MEAN, I THINK THE WHOLE PROBLEM, BECAUSE I THINK ALL OF US FROM TIME TO TIME, SPEED, SO THE EXAMPLE I GAVE IS, IS I'LL JUST GET THE CHIEF TO ISSUE CITATIONS ONCE A WEEK.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE GONNA SPEED.
SO WHY DON'T I JUST GIVE YOU A TICKET FOR IT AS YOU HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE OF OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCESS.
AND YOU KNOW THAT IT'S IMP IMPROVEMENT.
YOU, I KNOW YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT.
SO, UM, THE CODE ITSELF I THINK TRIES TO ANTICIPATE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PROBLEM AREAS THAT WE TRY TO MINIMIZE THOSE PROBLEM AREAS.
TO BE HONEST, I DON'T THINK THIS IS ANY DIFFERENT.
UM, AGAIN, I, I HEAR WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM ON THAT.
UM, IT, IT JUST IS A MATTER OF, AND AGAIN, EVERY COMMUNITY I'VE WORKED IN THIS, THIS IS, THIS IS, THIS IS AS COMMON AS IT GETS IN A ZONING CODE TO SAY YOU GOTTA HAVE A PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND THEN YOU HAVE AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
'CAUSE IF NOT, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUES THAT WE GOT TO THAT MAKE A LOT MORE HEARTBURN FOR EVERYBODY DOWN THE ROAD.
AGAIN, IF YOU WANT TO, THEN IF THERE'S A CONSENSUS THAT IS UP TO COUNSEL, I, BUT I'M JUST GIVING YOU MY, I HOLD ON.
I WILL SAY, I THINK WHAT COUNT, I THINK THE CONCERN IS THIS IS, I MEAN, YOU'RE CORRECT.
IF SOMEBODY BUILDS A CARPORT, THEY'RE GONNA BUILD A HOUSE.
THEY, FOR WHATEVER REASON HAVE SECOND THOUGHTS, FINANCE ISSUES, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
SO NOW YOU HAVE AN RV WITH A CARPORT ON A VACANT LOT AND ALL THE NEIGHBORS ARE MAD NOW.
RIGHT? SO HOW DO WE PREVENT THAT? BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS, WHAT WE GET CALLS FOR, RIGHT? AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO GO AND PREDICT, I GUESS COMPLIANCE OR NON-COMPLIANCE, I GUESS.
SO HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE SOLVE THAT? BECAUSE THAT'S THE ISSUE THAT'S CALLED, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE CALLS OR, OR COMMENTS WE GET FROM OUR CITIZENS.
THAT'S THE THING IS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOMEONE WHO'S GONNA ABUSE IT NO MATTER THEY'RE GONNA, THERE'S GONNA BE SOMEONE WHO'S GONNA ABUSE IT.
AND UNFORTUNATELY, MOST OF CODES AND MOST OF THIS, MOST OF WHAT WE'RE PUTTING IN THERE IS NOT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DO THINGS RIGHT.
IT'S FOR THOSE WHO ARE GONNA, ARE GONNA VIOLATE.
SO I, WE'RE, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO, UNFORTUNATELY SOMETIMES, AND I CAN BECOME A VICTIM OF THEM, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS AFTER STORMS AND WE DO A TEMPORARY, YOU KNOW, PERMIT FOR TEMPORARY STRUCK, YOU KNOW, TEMPORARY LIVING QUARTERS, HOW THEY BUILD THEIR HOUSE AND, AND WE WANNA OFFER THAT.
AND WHEN WE PUT TIMELINES ON IT, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU DO IN A SENSE WHEN SOMEBODY HAS A VACANT LOT, THEY WANNA BUILD THE HOUSE, THEY HAVE A TEMPORARY LIVING TRAILER, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, HOW DO YOU REGULATE
[00:50:01]
THAT WHEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN ONCE THEY'RE THERE, THEY'RE A LOT HARDER TO GET RID OF THAN THEY'RE TO JUST PREVENT FROM GOING THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.THAT IS KIND OF THE MAJORITY OF HOW OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OPERATES.
IT'S EASIER TO PREVENT IT THAN IT IS TO TRY AND GET RID OF IT.
THAT'S, SO, I GUESS GUESS THE QUESTION FOR COUNCIL RIGHT NOW WOULD BE DO YOU KEEP IT THE SAME VERSUS JUST NOT ALLOWED OR NOT? I MEAN, OTHER THAN A STORM TYPE SITUATION, BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT.
THAT'S USUALLY A, A STRUCTURE'S ALREADY THERE.
YOU, YOU DON'T ALLOW IT OR NOT.
MY ARGUMENT WOULD BE IF IT'S AN ALLOWABLE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE THAT'S ON THE LIST, WHAT DIFFERENCE IS THE TIMING, YOUR HONOR, SOMEBODY OWNS A LOT.
THEY WANT TO COMPLETELY FENCE IT TO SECURE IT.
IT'S ALREADY FENCED ON THREE SIDES.
THEY WANT TO FENCE IT ACROSS AND PUT A STORAGE BUILDING ON THERE SO THEY CAN KEEP THEIR TOOLS AND STUFF IN THERE TO MAINTAIN IT.
WHY WOULDN'T IT BE ALLOWED? I UNDERSTAND.
WELL, THEY, THEY MAY RUN ELECTRICITY AND WATER AND SEWER AND IT'S KIND OF, WE HAVE CODES THAT SAY THAT'S A NO.
YES, THAT'S A HARD ROAD TO GO DOWN AND ENFORCE.
BUT THOSE CODES ARE THERE FOR THE VIOLATION TO ME TO SAY, OKAY, YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING.
YOU BUILD THE PRIMARY IS PRESUMING THAT EVERYBODY'S GONNA DO THAT.
AND WE'RE JUST, WE'RE JUST GONNA CUT THAT OFF AT, AT THE NUB.
AND, AND I DON'T, I I'M A REAL PROPERTY RIGHTS INDIVIDUAL.
IT'S THEIR PROPERTY AND THEY'RE MAINTAINING IT IN A PROPER MANNER.
WHY SHOULDN'T THEY BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT IF THEY'RE MAINTAINING IT IN AN IMPROPER MANNER? WE HAVE CODES AND REGULATIONS THAT WE CAN STEP IN AND ADDRESS THAT ISSUE.
HOW DO WE ADDRESS IT AS A QUESTION? I, SO OBVIOUSLY YOU, YOU HEARD FROM I'M, I'M ON BOTH SIDES OF IT, HONESTLY.
UM, I'VE, I'VE BEEN THROUGH THE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS AND, UM, I HAVE A PROPERTY THAT IT'S VACANT, IT'S BEHIND MY HOUSE.
I'M NEVER GONNA BUILD ON IT, EVER.
AT LEAST WHILE I OWN IT, I'M NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT.
I DID LOSE A FENCE AND I WAITED TOO LONG AND I COULDN'T PUT A FENCE AGAIN.
WE CAN'T FAKE FENCE A VACANT PROPERTY.
AND, UM, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT, UM, I HAD A PLAYGROUND BACK THERE FOR THE LITTLE ONES, I HAD TO REMOVE IT BECAUSE KIDS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD THOUGHT IT WAS A PARK AND I DIDN'T WANT THE LIABILITY.
SO, UM, I HAD TO GET RID OF MY PLAYGROUND.
AND SO I DID COME UP HERE AND BECAUSE I, I DID WANT TO FENCE IT BACK UP AND, AND POSSIBLY PUT A CARPORT BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT OF FAMILY GATHERINGS AND I JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING IN MY MAIN HOME.
AND SO I'M LIKE, OKAY, THERE, THERE ARE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD DO.
I MEAN, SO IT WAS IN THAT SITUATION THAT COULD DO A LOT CONSULTATION.
THERE, THERE'S SOME, THERE ARE SOME OPTIONS.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT I TOLD MARTIN THAT I MAY LOOK AT DOING IS REPRE, PLATTING AND JUST HAVING IT CONSOLIDATED.
UH, BECAUSE AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, I CAN'T DO IT.
IT, BUT IF I CONSOLIDATE MY PROPERTY, THEN I WOULD BE ABLE TO GO BACK FENCE AND DO MY ACCESSORY DWELLING AND AN OLDER LOT.
THAT'S ACTUALLY A VERY SIMPLE PROCESS.
SO I WOULD, SO THEN I WOULD PUT THIS OUT THERE.
EITHER STAFF MAKES A RECOMMENDATION OR A COUNCIL MEMBER MAKES A RECOMMENDATION IF YOU WANT IT.
IF YOU DO WANNA ALLOW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, HOW DO WE, HOW, HOW DO WE, IF, IF THAT'S THE WILL, HOW DO WE CAPTURE WHERE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE'S THERE? IF IT ONLY EXISTS AND IT'S NOT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, IT'S THE ONLY STRUCTURE.
AND THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S THE OTHER ISSUE WITH, RIGHT.
SO I MEAN, IT'S JUST, WHAT IS THAT? IF IT'S 12 MONTHS, 24 MONTHS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO PREVENT BECAUSE WE'RE, I'M PROBLEM WITH THAT IS WHAT I'M OKAY WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION.
I, I'M LEANING TOWARDS A CALL AND CARE, UM, AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS A, A, UH, A SHED IN THEIR BACKYARD.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T SEE TRAMPLING ON PROPERTY RIGHTS TO, TO ENFORCE THAT.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT DIGGING OR GOING IN, YOU KNOW, TAPPING INTO SEW, RUNNING ELECTRICITY, UM, THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BUILD WHAT THEY WANT IN THEIR BACKYARD.
SO, BUT IT IS NOT THE BACKYARD, BUT ON THEIR VACANT, IT'S ON A VACANT LOT.
IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN IN THEIR BACKYARD IT COULD BE A STANDALONE LOT SOMEWHERE THAT THERE'S NOTHING ELSE NEAR IT.
[00:55:02]
AND AGAIN, MINE IS DIFFERENT 'CAUSE IT IS BEHIND MY MAIN PROPERTY.THE OTHER ISSUE TO KEEP IN MIND, AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ISSUE HERE IS YOU'RE BEGINNING, IF YOU ALLOW THIS, YOU BEGIN TO TAKE USABLE DEVELOPABLE PROPERTY OFF OF TAX ROLL OFF OF THE ABILITY FOR SOMEONE TO ACTUALLY BUILD A HOME AND THINGS LIKE THAT ON IT.
SO THAT'S HOW, 'CAUSE IF I OWN IT, IF YOU OWN IT, YES.
BUT, BUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE NOW MAKING IT EASIER FOR SOMEBODY TO NOW JUST BUILD A SHED TO JUST WALK AWAY OR SAY, I'M JUST GONNA HAVE A SHED ON THIS PROPERTY IF YOU GET A CHEAP PIECE OF PROPERTY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
COULD THEY OWN IT? WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT, BRIAN? I'M NOT, I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S ANYTHING NECESSARILY WRONG WITH IT.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT IT OPENS UP THAT, AND YOU BEGIN TO, YOU BEGIN TO PERPETUATE THAT AND YOU BEGIN TO TAKE THOSE USABLE PROPERTIES OUT OF THE INVENTORY IN THE CITY FOR BUILDING HOMES ON IT.
AND THEN IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA, THE INTENT OF A RESIDENTIAL ZONED AREA IS FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES.
AND SO THAT FROM THEIR PLANNING AND LANDING STANDPOINT, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT THAT INDIVIDUAL'S GONNA SELL IT TO BUILD ANYWAY.
THAT'S A, THAT'S NOT A GOOD ASSUMPTION.
SO THE OTHER THING WE COULD DO HERE IS IF, IF WE WANT TO SPEND MORE TIME ON THIS ONE, WE CAN AGAIN KIND TRANSFER WHAT IS DONE NOW WITH THE PROMISE THAT IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE, BEFORE THE END OF THIS CALENDAR YEAR, WE'LL BRING IT BACK.
LET US DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH AND SEE IF THERE ARE, ARE ANY OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT DO IT THAT WAY AND SEE HOW THEY'RE DOING.
MAYBE WE CAN BRING MORE INFORMATION TO THE TABLE.
I, I'M, I GUESS I'M OKAY WITH HOW IT IS.
'CAUSE I KNOW, AGAIN, I WOULD AGREE IT'S SOME OF THE TIMES, A LOT OF THE TIMES IT'S GONNA WIND UP WITH ISSUES FROM THE NEIGHBORS.
BUT, UM, I WOULD SAY LEAVE IT AS, AS IS AND EITHER STAFF HAS A RECOMMENDATION OFF OF WHATEVER THEY FIND OR A COUNCIL MEMBER.
IF THEY WANNA PROPOSE SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THEN DO SO.
AND REMEMBER, LIKE JASON SAID, THIS COULD ALL GO AWAY AND IT COULD ALL GO AWAY TOO.
SO WE DON'T, WE'LL DEFINITELY GO AWAY IN THE NEXT SESSION.
SO IT'S GONNA BE A FREE FOR ALL FOR ACCESSORY.
WELL, BUT WELL LESS, I'M NOT GONNA HANG MY HAT ON WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN IN THE LEGISLATIVE DISCUSSION'S.
BEEN THERE, DONE THAT TOO MANY TIMES.
SO IF WITH THE PROMISE FROM STAFF THAT WE BRING IT BACK WITH MORE INFORMATION, WOULD THAT BE, AND, AND I'LL, I'LL, AS THE MAYOR INDICATED, I WILL, I'LL DRAFT A, A FORMAL RECOMMENDATION.
UM, I GOT A COUPLE OF EASY ONES.
I, I HOPE, UH, ONE WAS ALLOW IN RESIDENTIAL FENCES AND KNOW FAMOUS LAST WORDS.
UM, ALLOW EIGHT FOOT TALL FENCES BY RIGHT.
UM, CURRENTLY THE, THE CURRENT CODE ACTUALLY DOESN'T ADDRESS IT VERY WELL.
THE CURRENT CODE, UM, IT, IT DOES ALLOW FOR SIX FOOT RESIDENTIAL FENCE, ANYTHING OVER SIX FOOT TALL, YOU GOTTA HAVE NOT ONLY A PERMIT, BUT YOU GOTTA HAVE ENGINEERED DRAWINGS.
YOU GOTTA MEET THE WIND SPEED REQUIREMENTS.
THESE ARE BUILDING CODE PARADE FOOT, PARADE FOOT FOR EIGHT.
ANYTHING OVER SIX, SIX OVER SIX.
ANYTHING OVER UP TO SIX, YOU'RE GOOD.
ANYTHING OVER SIX, YOU'VE GOTTA HAVE ENGINEERED DRAWINGS AND WIND SPEED REQUIREMENTS.
THAT'S THE BUILDING CODE, THAT'S R CODE THAT IS OUR CURRENT BUILDING CODE.
HOLD ON, LET ME, LET ME REPHRASE THAT.
IS THAT R CODE OR IS IT INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE? IT'S INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE.
UM, WE, ACROSS THE BOARD AS A CITY, UM, HAVE THOSE WIND SPEED REQUIREMENTS.
EVERYTHING HAS TO MEET 150 FOOT OR 150.
I THINK WE CAN, I MEAN, I'LL SAY WE CAN SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO SIX FOOT FENCES.
JUST IN, IN THE CABIN ONE WIND EVENT.
SO, UM, THE PROPOSED CODE, I DIDN'T FALL.
THE PROPOSED CODE SAYS YOU CAN STILL DO ALL THAT.
YOU STILL DO SIX FOOT WITHOUT HAVING TO DO ALL THAT.
BUT UP TO EIGHT FOOT WITH ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL, THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO GO TO COUNCIL.
IT DOES NOT HAVE TO GO TO BO OA BASICALLY JUST MEANS THEY HAVE TO COME IN AND SAY, OKAY, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE COULD MAKE SOME SENSE.
'CAUSE IN SOME NEIGHBORHOODS IT'S NOT GONNA MAKE SENSE.
IN THOSE SMALLER LOTS, YOU HAVE EIGHT FOOT FENCES ON EITHER SIDE IT'S GONNA FEEL LIKE A PRISON WALL.
SO IN OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS, MAYBE IN AREAS OUT LIKE WHERE, UM, COUNCIL MEMBER LESTER IS? YEAH, THAT COULD BE.
SO IT, IT'S BASICALLY THERE IS A RELEASE VALVE THERE.
THEY JUST HAVE TO COME IN AND SAY, HERE'S WHY I WANT TO DO IT AND HERE'S WHY I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.
AND THEN WE CAN GO, ALL RIGHT.
BUT THEY'D STILL BE REQUIRED TO GET A PERMIT ENGINEERED AND WIND SPEED REQUIREMENTS FOR ANYTHING THAT'S NOT CHANGED BY THE ZONING PANEL OF THEM.
AND, AND I HAD CONCERNS WITH THAT 'CAUSE I THOUGHT THE WAY I READ IT AGAIN, AND, AND AS WE DISCUSSED, I THOUGHT SIX FOOT WAS STANDARD, BUT YOU COULD HAVE UP TO EIGHT FOOT WITH STAFF APPROVAL.
BUT IT WASN'T CLEAR THAT THE ENGINEERING AND ANYTHING OVER EIGHT FOOT REQUIRED, AND I AGREE WITH ANYTHING OVER EIGHT FOOT REQUIRES ENGINEERING STAMP BECAUSE IT BECOMES A WIND SPEED ISSUE OR SAIL.
I DID NOT KNOW THAT ANYTHING OVER SIX FOOT REQUIRES THAT.
AND YOU'RE SAYING IT'S PART OF THE INTERNATIONAL CODE? THAT'S CORRECT.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
UM, WHERE IT SAYS NOT APPROPRIATE IN EVERY
[01:00:01]
NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, WOULD THAT ALSO BE A SPECIAL CASE FOR APPROVAL? UM, I'M THINKING OF ONLY ANYTHING OVER SIX FOOT.WELL, I'M THINKING OF MY NEIGHBOR WHO RAISED HIS HOME AND I'M LIKE DOWN HERE AND SO NOW MY FENCE IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THEIR WINDOW.
SO IF, IF THAT WAS BROUGHT TO STAFF, WE COULD LOOK AT THAT, THAT WOULD BE SPECIAL CASE AND WE, THAT WOULD BE A SPECIAL CASE WHERE YOU'D SAY, OKAY.
AND ESPECIALLY, AND I MIGHT JUST SAY, OKAY, THE NEIGHBOR WANTS TO BUILD IT UP TO EIGHT FOOT.
I MAY JUST SAY, GET ME SOMETHING FROM YOUR NEIGHBOR THAT SAYS THAT HE'S OKAY WITH IT.
IT, YEAH, IT COULD BE THAT SIMPLE DEPENDING ON WHAT IT WAS HIS BEDS, BUT HE HASN'T REPLACED IT.
BUT IT WOULD REQUIRE PERMIT AND ENGINEERING, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THIS DOESN'T, IT'S NOT JUST A LETTER FROM THE NEIGHBOR.
STILL GOTTA GET IT IN PERMIT AND ENGINEER.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? MM-HMM
LET ME ASK A QUESTION ON THIS.
SO NOT, NOT ON THE, THE HEIGHT, BUT I SEEN THAT IT HAPPENS, IT COULD BE SIX FEET FE FENCING, AN ENTIRE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, I MEAN ALL THE WAY AROUND.
IS IT ALLOWED, NOT ALLOWED THE, BEYOND THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE? CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, YOU CAN GO UP TO FIFTH.
YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF HOUSES IN TOWN THAT HAVE SIX FOOT PRIVACY FENCES OR MORE.
ALL THE WAY AROUND PROPERTY LINE.
ASK, ASK ME HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE BUILT WITHOUT PERMIT? HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE REAL MINE BACK TO THE CODE ENFORCE MINE IS NOT ALL THE WAY OUT.
UH, THIS ONE I DO THINK IS AN EASY ONE.
THE QUESTION WAS CAN WE BASICALLY RESTRICT THESE BY AGE TO SAY, OKAY, YOU'RE GONNA BRING IN A, UM, MANUFACTURED HOME FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE AND PUT IT ON A LOT.
IT CAN'T BE OLDER THAN 10 YEARS.
WE FOUND SOME CITIES THAT DO IT.
BUT IN DISCUSSING WITH, UH, SCOTT, WE ALL FEEL VERY, VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
WE BELIEVE THAT THAT BORDER'S ON DISCRIMINATION.
AND WE REALLY, WE LOOK AT IT AS THESE GO THROUGH HUD INSPECTIONS, THEY DON'T GO THROUGH CITY INSPECTION FOR THE STRUCTURE.
IF IT PASSES THAT, THAT INSPECTION, WE HAVE TO ALLOW IT.
I DON'T SEE THAT THERE'S ANYWHERE AROUND THAT.
SO IF IT'S 25 YEARS OLD AND IT'S STILL IN GOOD SHAPE, IT STILL PASSES THEIR INSPECTION, THEN THAT, THEN WE HAVE TO ALLOW IT.
PART OF THE DISCUSSION I HAD WITH RYAN WAS, 'CAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT TINY HOMES AND THEY WERE ALLOWED IN OTHER AREAS AND MANUFACTURED HOMES.
ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE TINY HOMES IS THAT THEY BE INSTALLED ON A SLAB.
SO MY QUESTION COMMENT WAS AGAIN, THAT ONE THAT BROUGHT UP THAT 10 YEARS OR LESS, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE MOST TINY HOMES ARE STRUCTURES ARE BUILT ELSEWHERE.
THEY'RE MANUFACTURED TYPICALLY, AND THEY'RE BROUGHT IN.
SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT IN A MANUFACTURED HOME IS TYPICALLY SIZED.
HOWEVER, I LIKE THE IDEA OF IF, IF THE CODE WOULD ALLOW THAT TO BE IN OTHER AREAS JUST AS TINY HOMES, BUT REQUIRE THAT THEY BE INSTALLED ON SLAB FOUNDATIONS.
IT'S ON A PAD VERSUS JUST THE BLOCKS.
SO THAT WOULD ALLOW, AGAIN, AND I SAY THE 10 YEARS, I FOUND THAT OUT WHEN I REPLACED MINE, WHICH I'M ALLOWED TO.
Y'ALL WERE VERY, UH, GOOD ABOUT FINDING THE CODE THAT ALLOWS THAT.
'CAUSE I HAD A PREEXISTING RIGHT.
IT REQUIRED IT BE NEWER, IT REQUIRED THAT IT BE SAME SIZE OR LARGER AND IT COULD NOT BE USED FOR RENTAL PURPOSES, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS ODD.
SO, BUT IN DEALING WITH THE MANUFACTURING COMMUNITY HOME, THE STANDARDS CHANGE ABOUT EVERY 10 YEARS AND THEY UPGRADE EVERY 10 YEARS IS WHAT IS EXPLAINED.
YOU GET THE LATEST VERSIONS AND STANDARDS.
BUT REQUIRING THEM TO BE PLACED ON THE SLAB FOUNDATION WOULD, WOULD OFFSET SOME OF THAT.
WELL, IT'S A, IT'S A MOBILE HOME.
THERE ARE NO MOBILE HOMES ANYMORE.
THE ONLY PLACE YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT PERMANENTLY AFFIXED TO THE GROUND IS IN AN RV PARK.
SO, SO AGAIN, THAT'S ANOTHER OPTION OF ALLOWING, YOU KNOW, MANUFACTURED HOMES BEING SOLD IN OTHER LOCATIONS SO LONG AS THEY'RE ON SLAB FOUNDATIONS.
AND THAT, AND THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF IT.
BUT IF YOU'RE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE 10 YEAR ISSUE, I THOUGHT THAT COULD BE A GOOD COMPROMISE.
'CAUSE THE NEWER HOMES ARE BUILT WITH TRUE 2 4 2 BY SIX CONSTRUCTION.
I MEAN THE TWO BY THREE, YOU KNOW, THIN VINYL WALLS ARE, THOSE ARE GONE.
UM, WE'RE KIND OF RUNNING OUT TIME.
SO I, I WANT TO MOVE KIND OF QUICKLY.
UM, ONE OF YOUR OTHER QUESTIONS WAS ABOUT THE STREETSCAPING TREES UNDERNEATH OVERHEAD LINES.
THE CODE ALREADY DOES PROHIBIT THE LARGE TREES
[01:05:01]
UNDER, OR WITHIN 10 FEET OF THE LINES OVER.THAT WAS JUST BASICALLY AN FYI.
WE FOUND THAT ANSWER AND IT'S IN THERE.
SO THE OTHER PART THAT WE WANTED TO DISCUSS WAS, UM, MAYOR, YOU BROUGHT UP THE DIFFERENCES, THE COMPARISONS IN THE DIFFERENT, UM, UH, COMMERCIAL AND MIXED USE ZONE.
SO I'M GONNA LET RYAN KIND OF ZIP THROUGH THESE.
SO IT LOOKS OVERWHELMING, BUT THE GREEN BOX IS, LEMME GO BACK ONE.
UH, THE GREEN BOX IS JUST TO KIND OF HIGHLIGHT THE ONES WE THOUGHT THAT YOU WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO DISCUSS.
IF THERE ARE ANY THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE GREEN BOX, LET US KNOW.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA TRY AND GET THROUGH THESE PRETTY QUICKLY.
ON THIS, UH, SCREEN, THIS IS THE START OF THE COMPARISON TABLE BETWEEN GENERAL COMMERCIAL AND FREEWAY COMMERCIAL.
THE ONE THAT WE WANT TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO WAS COMMENT THAT WE HAD HEARD.
UM, AND THAT WAS THAT, UH, WE DID NOT WANT TO SEE, UH, APARTMENTS IN GENERAL COMMERCIAL.
IT'S NOT ALLOWED CURRENTLY IN GENERAL COMMERCIAL WE'RE PROPOSING IT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE PROPOSED GC.
WE ARE PROPOSING THOUGH THAT, UM, IT MAY MAKE SENSE ALONG, UH, FREEWAY COMMERCIAL AREAS.
SO, WHICH IS WHAT WE HEARD AT ONE OF THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS.
SO THIS IS, THERE'S NOTHING REALLY TO CALL OUT ON THIS PAGE AGAIN.
UM, SO AGAIN, JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS, PC, UM, I WANNA KEEP THE SAME NOMENCLATURE, BUT PC IS, IS WHAT IS SHOWN AS L IN THE PROPOSED ZONING LIMITED USE.
BASICALLY WHAT THAT BASICALLY MEANS, IT'S, IT'S PERMITTED, BUT THERE ARE CONDITIONS THAT GO ALONG WITH IT.
SO, AND THEN IF THERE'S A DASH, IT MEANS IT IS NOT PERMITTED.
AND IF THERE'S A QUESTION MARK, THE CURRENT CODE DOES NOT ADDRESS IT.
SO YOU'LL SEE SEVERAL OF THOSE OF, AGAIN, WHERE I THINK IT EXPANDS OUR USE TABLE INTO THINGS THAT WE'VE, WE'VE HEARD ABOUT FROM PASSENGER TERMINALS.
SO THAT WOULD BE LIKE A BUS TERMINAL.
SO TRAIN COULD BE, COULD BE AN AIRPORT.
AGAIN, WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT LARGE THINGS LIKE THAT, IT'S GONNA BE, IT GOES INTO A DIFFERENT CATEGORY.
WE, WE HAVE A BUS SPACE PORT COMES OVER ON MARTIN STREET UP FOLKS.
IT'S NOT GREYHOUND, BUT IT'S A BUS.
THEY RUN, THEY RUN FROM HERE TO THE VALLEY.
WE'VE HAD A COUPLE PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME IN FOR THAT.
UM, BASICALLY WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS, IS, UM, SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THOSE.
AND ONLY IN COMMERCIAL AREAS OR INDUSTRIAL AREAS.
UM, UM, AND TYPICALLY THE SOLAR PANEL.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S, THIS IS IF WE GO LARGE SCALE, NOT JUST, HEY, I WANNA PUT SOME SOLAR PANELS ON MY, ON MY ROOF.
IT'S FOR A COMMERCIAL PURPOSE.
UM, ORIGINALLY HAD HOTEL MOTEL.
WE OBVIOUSLY CLEARED THAT OUT.
THE CONDITIONS ON IT ARE, IT HAS TO BE A HOTEL, UH, HAS TO BE, UM, INTERNAL HALLWAYS, NOT WHERE YOU DRIVE UP TO THE ROOM.
UH, RECREATIONAL PARK, UH, SPECIAL USE PERMIT, UH, IN THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL, WE WANTED TO CARRY THAT OVER.
ONE OF THE, UH, VERSIONS DID HAVE IT IN FREEWAY COMMERCIAL.
WE HEARD BY UNCLEAR FROM COUNSEL THAT Y'ALL DID NOT WANT TO SEE THAT FREEWAY COMMERCIAL.
SO WE REMOVED THAT, UH, TRUCK PARKING LOT.
THIS IS A BRAND NEW USE THAT WE'VE HEARD A A LOT OF OF PEOPLE, OBVIOUSLY WITH THE LOGISTICS, UH, UH, INDUSTRY THAT WE HAVE IN THE COMMUNITY.
UM, WHERE DO WE PARK, UH, HAVE A PLACE FOR TRUCKS TO ACTUALLY PARK? UM, SO WE SEMIS.
SO WE ARE PROPOSING, UM, THAT IT WOULD BE PERMITTED, UH, WITH CONDITIONS IN THREEWAY COMMERCIAL AS WELL AS LIGHT AND HEAVY INDUSTRIAL.
SO IT IS A USE THAT IS NOT, UM, NOT IN OUR CURRENT CODE.
SO TRUCK PARKING LOT YOU MEAN? SO IT WOULD BE WHERE TRUCKS COULD PARK, BUT OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT A FUEL STATION OR OTHER THAN A SERVICE.
AND IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT MEANT FOR LIKE OVERNIGHT NO.
IT'S A, A PAY TO PARK TYPE SITUATION.
THERE'S NO SHOWERS, THERE'S NO, UM, STORE.
WE, WE HAD ONE COME IN A YEAR AGO.
I THINK THAT WHAT ENDED UP, UM, BEING TURNED DOWN.
'CAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO GO INTO A GC GO BACK THOUGH TO THE, I DIDN'T GET TO SEE EVERYTHING DOWN THERE.
I DID SEE LIKE, AND SO IN FREEWAY COMMERCIAL, NO COUNTRY CLUBS.
IT'S THE SAME AS, IT'S THE SAME AS NOW.
AGAIN, THIS WAS JUST, UM, IT'S NOT PERMITTED.
WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING IT BE PERMITTED, BUT WE WANTED TO CALL OUT BECAUSE WE KNOW IT'S A SENSITIVE USE.
AND THEN SAME WITH KIND OF EVERYTHING THAT GETS LUMPED IN WITH, UH, TRUCK SALES, RENTAL TRAVEL CENTER, TRUCK STOP.
UM, AGAIN, KIND OF CARRYING IT OVER, WE DID MOVE TRUCK STOP OUT OF GENERAL COMMERCIAL.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THE CONDITIONS FOR TRUCK STOPS ARE ONLY WITHIN, I THINK IT'S 2000 FEET OF, OF THOMPSON ROAD, I 10 THOMPSON, WHICH THOSE AREAS ARE GOING TO BE ZONE FC.
SO THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THAT CARRIED OVER.
[01:10:01]
SO IN, IN ESSENCE, NOTHING CHANGES FROM CURRENT CODE.WE'RE JUST CHANGING THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT, UM, AND THEN WAREHOUSING, WE KNOW THAT'S A HOT TOPIC, NOT PERMITTED AT ALL IN ANY COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
FREEWAY, COMMERCIAL, GENERAL COMMERCIAL.
THOSE WOULD ALL BE IN OUR LIGHT OR, UH, HEAVY INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS.
UM, MIXED USE IS, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
WE ARE EXPANDING, UM, RESIDENTIAL USES IN OUR MIXED USE, BUT WE'RE GOING FROM A MIXED USE TO WHAT WE CALL A MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND AGAIN, WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO LOOK AT SMALL SCALE MIXED USE, UM, WITH SOME RESIDENTIAL, MAYBE SOME COMMERCIAL THAT WOULD SERVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, SO THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THE EXPANSION OF, UH, RESIDENTIAL USES IN THAT SOUTHERN DISTRICT.
AND I, AND ALSO SAY, I JUST WANT TO, THE REASON WHY I WANNA COMMENT ON, ON THE MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD OR WHATEVER YOU CONSIDERED, I, I THINK THE, THE, THE, UM, THE CHANGE WAS WELL INTENTIONED, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF, OR, OR SOME OF THE AREAS THAT WOULD TURN INTO MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THERE'S A LOT OF EXISTING BUSINESSES OR A LOT OF EXISTING BUILDINGS.
AND SO THAT'S WHY YOU HEARD FROM THOSE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT CONCERN, RIGHT? SO I THINK IT'S LIKE MOVING FORWARD, WE KNOW WHAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE, BUT WE DON'T WANT WANT, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE LAST THING I WANNA DO IS GO AND NE NEGATIVELY IMPACT BUSINESSES THAT HAVE OPERATED AND COEXISTED NEAR RESIDENTIAL, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
UM, I DON'T THINK THAT WAS THE INTENT OF WHAT WAS BEING ATTEMPTED.
AND THE OTHER THING THAT I WILL MENTION IS THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE A, A, A REALLY IMPORTANT TOOL IN THE NEW CODE.
AND THAT IS WHERE SOMEBODY, UM, CAN GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, UM, WHICH WOULD ACTUALLY CONVERT THAT USE FROM A NON-CONFORMING USE INTO A CONFORMING USE SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ISSUES WITH FINANCING, WITH CARRYING THE PROPERTY OVER.
IT BASICALLY LEGALIZES THAT USE AS IT IS A FULLY PERMITTED USE.
UM, SO, SO SINCE THERE, THERE'LL BE THE APPLICANT, LET'S JUST SAY IN A SENSE, IT'S NOT SPOT ZONING IS APPLYING WITH WHATEVER CONDITIONS THEIR PROPERTY OR WHAT THEIR USE IS GONNA BE AND, AND IT'S EITHER GONNA BE ACCEPTED OR NOT.
AND, AND THAT WOULD'VE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS PROCESS, I WOULD'VE TO THROUGH IT'S FAIR.
AND, AND THE NEIGHBORS HAVE TO BE NOTIFIED AGAIN BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORS HAVE OBVIOUSLY THE BIGGEST, UH, UH, SKIN IN THE GAME ON THAT ONE.
UM, AND THEN THIS IS JUST EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES.
AGAIN, NOTHING REALLY, UH, DIFFERENT IN HERE.
THE ONLY REASON YOU ACTUALLY SEE THE CONDITION ON THE CURRENT MIXED USE IS WE DID NOT BREAK THESE OUT.
WE LIMPED THEM ALL AS, UH, PLACES OF ASSEMBLY IN OUR CURRENT CODE.
AND SO THERE'S SOME, SOME KIND OF ODD CONDITIONS IN THERE.
SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE YOU'RE SEEING ON THAT ONE.
UH, UTILITIES, WE DID NOT HAVE THAT IN OUR CURRENT CODE.
UM, AGAIN, MINOR UTILITIES VERSUS MAJOR UTILITIES.
MAJOR WOULD BE, AGAIN, LIKE, UM, A SOLAR FARM OR THINGS LIKE THAT THAT'S GONNA REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
UM, AND, AND OTHER MAJOR UTILITIES LIKE A, UM, LIKE A LIFT STATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THOSE ARE GONNA GO WHEREVER THEY GO.
WE CAN'T REALLY BRING THOSE, THOSE.
AND THEN, UM, OVERNIGHT ACCOMMODATIONS, WE HAVE EXPANDED THIS OUT.
WE ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT BED AND BREAKFAST.
WE TALK ABOUT SHORT TERM RENTALS.
UM, AGAIN, SO BED AND BREAKFAST WOULD BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT HOTELS AND SHORT-TERM RENTALS, AIRBNBS, THOSE TYPE OF THINGS WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
UM, AND THEN, UH, THE TRUCK PARKING, NOT PERMITTED AND MIXED USE, BUT COMMERCIAL PARKING USES, THAT WOULD BE LIKE MEDICAID PARKING LOT MIGHT BE THAT THE CITY PUTS IT IN.
MAYBE THAT A PRIVATE, UM, DEVELOPER, UH, BUYS A PIECE OF PROPERTY, PUTS A PARKING LOT ON IT, UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE NEXT TO SOME COMMERCIAL AREA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR, FOR FOLKS TO BE ABLE TO PARK IN.
SO THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE.
THIS IS OUR, UH, ENTERTAINMENT SECTION.
AGAIN, NO REAL MAJOR CHANGES ON THAT ONE.
AND THEN, UM, HERE AGAIN, THE VEHICLE SALES AND SERVICE.
UH, VEHICLE SALES COULD BE PERMITTED IN MIXED USE.
AGAIN, IT JUST DEPENDS AND WE REQUIRE SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THAT.
AND THEN, UH, VEHICLE FUELING STATION BE PERMITTED BY, UH, BUT THERE WOULD BE SOME CONDITIONS THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT.
AND THEN ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THE, ON THE USES? NOTHING.
SO WE HIT, WE HIT ALL THE, ALL THE, IT LOOKED, I MEAN, YES.
SO KIND OF WRAP UP BECAUSE, UH, AGAIN, UM, OUR INTENT IS HOPEFULLY TO GET YOU A KIND OF CLEAN COPY FOR YOU ALL TO, UM, HOPEFULLY TAKE ACTION ON YOUR NEXT, UH, MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 12TH.
UM, SO HERE ARE SOME OF THE MAJOR CHANGES THAT WE HAVE, UH, THAT YOU HAVE THAT ARE NOT IN THERE, THAT WILL END UP BEING IN THERE.
THAT WAS REMOVING A 3000 SQUARE FOOT SIZE LIMITATION FROM RETAIL REPAIR USES PERMITTING, SERVICE ORIENTED USES IN THE MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD ZONING DISTRICT.
UM, REMOVING THE FLOOR AREA LIMITATION ON MICRO MANUFACTURING.
SO IT'S BASED ON ONLY THE AREA OF THE MANUFACTURING AREA AND NOT THE WHOLE BUILDING.
THAT'S OUR MOSTLY THAT WERE IN RESPONSE TO THE CONCERNS WE HEARD FROM THE BUSINESS OWNERS ON BEAUMONT.
[01:15:01]
SALES LIMITATION ON MICRO MANUFACTURING USES.AGAIN, BECAUSE OFTENTIMES THOSE FOLKS ARE SELLING THEIR PRODUCT.
AND, AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALLOWING FOLKS TO DO THAT.
UH, FOR NONCONFORMITIES, Y'ALL HAVE HEARD SOME COMMENTS ABOUT AMORTIZATION, UM, CONFUSION ABOUT MINOR AND MAJOR, UH, NONCONFORMITIES AND THE ABANDONMENT TIME.
UM, SO WE ARE REMOVING THE AMORTIZATION LANGUAGE.
WE ARE REMOVING THE MINOR AND MAJOR NONCONFORMITY CLASSIFICATIONS, AND WE ARE REVISING THE ABANDONMENT TIME, SO IT MATCHES OUR CURRENT CODE, UM, GOING FROM SIX MONTHS UP TO 12 MONTHS.
UM, SOME MINOR FIXES THAT, UH, WE ARE GOING TO BE MAKING THAT WE'VE NOTICED WAS THERE WAS ONE OF OUR, UM, IT'S, IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL, UM, THAT WAS NOT IN OUR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW SUMMARY TABLE.
SO WE WILL BE ADDING THAT AND THEN MAKING SOME VERY MINOR CHANGES.
UM, WE HAVE NOTICED THAT THE EXISTING PUDS ARE NOT ON THE MAP AND SOME OF THE LARGER PARCELS, UM, DOWNTOWN, UM, ARE INTENDED TO ACTUALLY BE SPLIT SO THAT, UM, THE AREAS THAT ARE ON TEXAS AVENUE OR LIKE MAIN ARE IN THE MAIN STREET OVERLAY.
AND THEN THE AREAS THAT ARE ON THE SECONDARY STREETS ARE MORE THE FLEX AREAS.
SO AGAIN, THAT WAS, WE'VE HAD SOME STAFFING CHANGES WITH GIS.
WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES.
UM, BUT YOU'LL HAVE AGAIN, A CLEAN MAP AND A CLEAN, UH, VERSION HOPEFULLY FOR Y'ALL TO, UH, DECIDE ON, ON YOUR, AT YOUR NEXT MEETING.
WE WE'RE SHOOTING TO HAVE THAT, UM, ON THE WEBSITE BY MONDAY.
AND, AND THEN WE BE LOOKING FOR, UM, HOPEFULLY FOR ACTION FROM COUNCIL ON SEPTEMBER 12TH, IF THAT WORKS FOR YOU.
AND I THANK YOU FOR THE DIRECTION.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR.
IF YOU WOULD'VE READ THE CODE TO US AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE BEGINNING, WE WOULD'VE SAVED 20 MINUTES.