Jun 27, 2024 CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION

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AND I'LL CALL THIS, UH, CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION

[ CITY OF BAYTOWN NOTICE OF MEETING CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION THURSDAY, JUNE 27, 2024 5:30 P.M. TEAM ROOM, COMMUNITY CENTER 2407 MARKET STREET, BAYTOWN, TEXAS 77520 AGENDA CALL TO ORDER AND ANNOUNCEMENT OF QUORUM ]

IT IS THURSDAY, JUNE 27TH.

IT IS 5:34 PM WE DO HAVE A QUORUM.

UH, FIRST WE HAVE OUR CITIZEN COMMENT.

ANYBODY, UM, SIGN UP OR DESIRE TO SPEAK? ALRIGHT, WITH THAT WE'LL

[a. Presentation and discussion of water and sewer rates.]

MR. SIMINA, GOOD EVENING, UH, MAYOR AND COUNSEL.

UH, THE PURPOSE OF THIS DISCUSSION TODAY IS TO FOLLOW UP ON A REQUEST FOR A SEWER CAP OR, UH, WINTER AVERAGING FOR SEWER RATES, AND PREPARE US FOR OUR FY 25, UH, RATE RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO TO DO THAT, I'LL GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF THE CURRENT UTILITY RATE STRUCTURE.

UH, THEN I'LL HAVE, UH, JENNIFER IVY WITH, UH, COLO, WHO'S OUR CONSULTANT FOR UTILITY RATES, UH, COME UP.

AND SHE WILL TELL YOU, UH, FIRST, JUST IN GENERAL, UH, ABOUT RATE STUDIES.

UM, AND THEN LEAD INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT SEWER CAP AND WINTER AVERAGING.

AND THEN I'LL COME BACK AND WRAP UP, UH, WITH OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO, UM, THIS SLIDE LISTS THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, UH, RATE STRUCTURE FOR IN CITY, UM, CUSTOMERS.

UM, WE DO, WE HAVE RATE TABLES FOR SINGLE FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL, MULTI-FAMILY, NON-RESIDENTIAL IRRIGATION.

UM, AND ALL THOSE HAVE IN CITY AND OUT OUTSIDE CITY, UH, COMPONENTS TO THEM.

UH, JUST A LITTLE HISTORY.

IN, UH, DECEMBER OF 2022, THE CITY CHANGED THE RATE STRUCTURE, UM, UH, THE COMPONENTS OF THE, OF THE RATES.

WE WERE REDUCED THE NUMBER OF TIERS.

WE ALSO IMPLEMENTED A, UH, 1.5 OUTSIDE CITY MULTIPLIER.

UM, AND THAT, THAT WAS REALLY THE, THE MAIN COMPONENTS OF THE CHANGE IN DECEMBER OF 22.

AND THEN IN FY 24 CITY IMPLEMENTED A 6%, UH, RATE INCREASE TO THE RATES, UH, WITH THE, I THINK THE EXCEPTION OF THE LOWEST, UH, TIER.

AND, UH, PRIOR TO THAT, THE LAST INCREASE FOR WATER WAS IN 2014 AND, UH, FOR SEWER IN 2019.

SO SOME OF THE ITEMS TO NOTE ON, UM, THIS SLIDE IS THAT, UM, THE NON-RESIDENTIAL IS BASICALLY THE SAME RATE AS THE MIDDLE TIER.

UM, ALSO THE LOWEST TIER THAT I JUST MENTIONED THAT WAS NOT INCREASED, IT'S AT $2 AND 72 CENTS PER THOUSAND GALLONS.

UH, THAT'S WELL BELOW THE, UH, RATE THAT THE CITY PAYS BOWA FOR ITS, UM, WATER, UH, WHICH IS, UH, CURRENTLY $3 AND 44 CENTS AND PROPOSED IN FY 25 FOR $3 AND 65 CENTS.

NOW, THAT IS JUST THE COST OF GETTING THE WATER FROM BYWELL.

UH, THE CITY ALSO HAS ALL OF ITS O AND M EXPENSES RELATED TO OUR CITY, UH, UTILITIES SUCH, YOU KNOW, FIRE HYDRANTS, THE WATER TOWERS, THE CREWS THAT FIX THE LEAKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO, UM, JUST GIVE YOU THAT BACKGROUND.

UM, AND NOW I'M GONNA BRING UP JENNIFER AND, UM, OH, WELL, ONE OTHER THING.

I WANTED TO MENTION THIS.

UH, SO YOU, YOU'LL PROBABLY NOTICE THAT, UM, THE RATES INCREASE AS YOU INCREASE IN VOLUME USAGE.

SO THAT, THAT IS INTENTIONAL.

UH, THAT IS TO ENCOURAGE WATER CONSERVATION.

SO THE MORE YOU USE THE HIGHER RATE YOU PAY, AND THAT ENCOURAGES, UH, PEOPLE TO CONSERVE WATER.

SO, UM, WITH THAT, I'LL LET, UH, JENNIFER, LIKE I SAY, GET INTO, UH, GREAT STUDIES AND THE WATER AND SEWER CAP, I MEAN SEWER CAP.

ALRIGHT, THANKS, FRANK.

OKAY, SO WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT DOING A RATE STUDY, THE POINT OF THAT IS TO EQUITABLY ALLOCATE THOSE COSTS, BOTH OPERATING AND CAPITAL COSTS, UH, TO THE DIFFERENT CUSTOMER TYPES, UH, SO RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL IRRIGATION AND SO FORTH.

UH, AND THEN TO DETERMINE THE BEST METHOD OF STRUCTURING THE RATES TO RECOVER THAT AMOUNT FROM THOSE CUSTOMERS.

SO WE TYPICALLY LOOK AT A THREE STEP PROCESS TO DO THIS.

UM, THIS COMES FROM THE AMERICAN WATERWORKS ASSOCIATION AND ALSO THE WATER ENVIRONMENT FEDERATION FROM THEIR PUBLISHED MANUALS.

AND THAT FIRST STEP IS WHAT WE CALL REVENUE REQUIREMENTS.

IT'S WHEN WE LOOK AND SAY, WELL, WHAT

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UM, SO THIS IS TO LOOK AT HOW THEY'RE USING WATER OR THE DIFFERENT, UH, DISCHARGES THAT THEY PUT INTO THE SEWER SYSTEM AND SAYING, WHAT IS THE FAIR AMOUNT OF THIS TOTAL COST FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS TO PAY OR FOR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS AND SO FORTH.

AND THEN THE LAST STEP WOULD BE TO DEVELOP A RATE STRUCTURE THAT WOULD RECOVER THAT AMOUNT FROM EACH OF THOSE CUSTOMER CLASSES.

SO SOMETIMES WE SKIP THAT SECOND STEP AND WE LOOK AT A TWO STEP PROCESS.

UM, JUST SAY, HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE NEED TO BRING IN? AND OKAY, HOW DO WE CHANGE THE RATES IN OUR CURRENT RATE STRUCTURE IN ORDER TO DO THIS? UM, SO YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO THAT MIDDLE STEP EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

OKAY? SO THAT'S THE PROCESS.

NOW, I, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I KNOW HAS COME UP IN DISCUSSION IS AROUND THE WASTEWATER BILLABLE VOLUMES.

UM, AS FRANK MENTIONED, THAT'S CURRENTLY EQUAL TO THE WATER CONSUMPTION, SO THE AMOUNT THAT IS CAPTURED FROM THE WATER METER.

UM, BUT THERE ARE OTHER METHODS OF ESTIMATING THAT WASTEWATER FLOW AMOUNT THAT GOES TO EACH RESIDENCE.

UM, SO AS I SAID, THE CURRENT METHOD IS ACTUAL WATER CONSUMPTION.

UM, SOMETIMES WE LOOK AT THE AVERAGE WINTER CONSUMPTION, OR YOU MAY HAVE HEARD THIS, CALLED THE WINTER QUARTER AVERAGE.

UM, THIS IS WHERE YOU PICK THE THREE MONTHS OF THE YEAR THAT, UH, TYPICALLY HAVE THE LOWEST WATER CONSUMPTION.

AND SO THAT CAN REPRESENT THAT INDOOR USAGE THAT'S LIKELY TO BE, UH, DISCHARGED INTO THE SEWER SYSTEM.

AND SO YOU WOULD TAKE THE AVERAGE OF THOSE MONTHS AND THEN THE WASTEWATER CUSTOMERS OR THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS WOULD BE CHARGED THAT AMOUNT FOR THE NEXT 12 MONTHS FOR SEWER.

UM, AND SO THAT'S ONE WAY TO DO IT.

UM, WE TOOK A LOOK AT THIS, UM, WITH THE ACTUAL, UH, BILLING DATA FROM THE CITY OF BAYTOWN RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS TO SAY, WELL, IF WE WERE TO CHANGE FROM THE CURRENT METHOD OF THE ACTUAL WATER CONSUMPTION TO A WINTER QUARTER AVERAGE, UM, WHAT WOULD BE THE, THE RESULT OF THAT? UM, SO THAT WOULD REDUCE THE BILLABLE AMOUNT, THAT BILLABLE VOLUME FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS BY AROUND 30 TO 40% BASED ON OUR ANALYSIS.

AND SO WHEN YOU REDUCE THAT FLOW VOLUME, UM, THAT MEANS THAT THE RATE THAT YOU WOULD CHARGE FOR EVERY THOUSAND GALLONS HAS TO GO UP BECAUSE YOU STILL NEED TO BRING IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY.

THE COST DIDN'T GO DOWN, BUT NOW YOU'RE GOING TO RECOVER THOSE COSTS FROM A SMALLER VOLUME.

SO THAT MEANS THAT THE AMOUNT THAT YOU CHARGE FOR EACH UNIT HAS TO GO UP.

AND SO WE WOULD ESTIMATE THAT THAT RATE FOR THE WASTEWATER, UH, FOR EACH THOUSAND GALLONS OF WASTEWATER WOULD NEED TO GO UP BY ABOUT 40 TO 50%.

AND THAT'S ASSUMING THAT YOU CONTINUE TO ALLOCATE, UH, THE SAME AMOUNT OF THOSE REVENUE REQUIREMENTS TO THE RESIDENTIAL CLASS.

YOU'RE NOT CHANGING HOW YOU ARE RECOVERING REVENUE FROM THE DIFFERENT CLASSES.

A THIRD METHOD THAT WE LOOKED AT IS A RESIDENTIAL FLOW CAP.

SO THIS IS SAYING, HEY, WE'RE, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO CHARGE A RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER MORE THAN MAYBE 12,000 GALLONS PER MONTH FOR SEWER.

SO EVEN IF THEY HAVE 20,000 GALLONS GOING THROUGH THEIR WATER METER, THEY'RE ONLY GONNA BE CHARGED FOR UP TO 12,000 GALLONS ON THE SEWER SIDE.

AND SO WE DID LOOK AT THAT AND WE USED 12,000 GALLONS FOR OUR ANALYSIS.

AND SO THIS HAD A SIMILAR RESULT.

WE'RE REDUCING THAT BILLABLE VOLUME.

UM, AND SO THE RATE HAS TO GO UP, BUT IT'S A MUCH SMALLER IMPACT.

SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THE RESIDENTIAL FLOW CAP OF 12,000 GALLONS PER MONTH, THAT REDUCES THAT BILLABLE FLOW BY ABOUT FIVE TO 10%.

AND SO THEN THE VOLUMETRIC RATE PER THOUSAND GALLONS WOULD GO UP BY ABOUT FIVE OR 10%, UM, AGAIN, BASED ON THE ANALYSIS OF HISTORIC BILLABLE DATA.

SO THE KEY HERE IS JUST THAT IF WE MAKE A CHANGE TO HOW YOU ARE CHARGING THOSE, UH, WASTEWATER, RESIDENTIAL WASTEWATER

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OKAY.

AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO THAT? IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE, YOUR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS, PARTICULARLY, LET'S LOOK AT THE SUMMER MONTHS, YOU'VE GOT SOME CUSTOMERS THAT ARE IRRIGATING QUITE A BIT, OKAY? AND THAT'S WHY THEIR WASTEWATER BILL IS GOING WAY UP IN THE SUMMERTIME AS WELL, BECAUSE OF BEING CHARGED FOR ALL OF THAT WATER.

SO FOR THOSE CUSTOMERS, EVEN THOUGH THE RATE WOULD GO UP, THAT BILLABLE VOLUME FOR THEM IN THE SUMMERTIME IS GONNA COME WAY DOWN.

SO THEIR BILL COULD ACTUALLY GO DOWN.

MAYBE IT STAYS ABOUT THE SAME, BUT IF YOU HAVE CUSTOMERS WHO MAYBE DON'T HAVE BIG LAWNS, THEY'RE NOT IRRIGATING, MAYBE THEY'RE LOW INCOME, AND SO THEY SIMPLY CAN'T AFFORD TO IRRIGATE A LOT, MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS, THEIR SUMMER USAGE PROBABLY ISN'T THAT MUCH HIGHER THAN THEIR WINTER USAGE.

AND FOR THOSE CUSTOMERS, THAT BILLABLE VOLUME IS NOT REALLY GOING TO CHANGE MUCH IN THE SUMMERTIME.

IT'S NOT GOING TO GO DOWN VERY MUCH AT ALL.

BUT THAT RATE IS STILL GONNA GO UP, AND SO THEIR BILL IS GOING TO GO UP.

SO IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU FIRST START TALKING ABOUT CAPPING WASTEWATER VOLUME AND USING SOME OF THESE ESTIMATION TECHNIQUES.

IN YOUR CASE, BECAUSE YOU'RE CURRENTLY CHARGING BASED ON THE ACTUAL WATER USAGE, THAT BILLABLE VOLUME HAS TO COME DOWN OR WOULD COME DOWN.

AND SO THAT RATE HAS TO GO UP.

AND THE IMPACT OF THAT IS THAT THE CUSTOMERS WHO ARE GOING TO BE HURT THE MOST BY THAT ARE THOSE CUSTOMERS WHO ARE NOT USING VERY MUCH WATER IN THE SUMMERTIME TO BEGIN WITH.

AND SO THEY ALREADY HAVE RELATIVELY LOW WASTEWATER BILLS IN THE SUMMERTIME.

AND THE ONES WHO ARE GOING TO BENEFIT THE MOST ARE THOSE CUSTOMERS WHO DO HAVE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS, LARGE LAWNS.

THEY'RE IRRIGATING QUITE A BIT.

NOW, THE BENEFIT OF THAT IS THAT YOU WOULD CONTINUE TO COURAGE, YOU WOULD CONTINUE TO COURAGE CONSERVATION WITH THE CURRENT METHOD, UM, SIMILAR TO HOW THE WATER STRUCTURE IS.

UM, IF YOU GO TO ONE OF THESE, UH, ESTIMATING TECHNIQUES FOR WASTEWATER, THEN THAT ADDITIONAL, UM, INCENTIVE TO CONSERVE IS ALSO TAKEN AWAY.

SO, UM, IT'S JUST ONE MORE THING TO CONSIDER.

SO THAT'S REALLY THE POINT OF THIS CONVERSATION WAS JUST TO, UM, TRY TO GIVE YOU SOME INFORMATION TO HELP YOU AS YOU CONSIDER THESE, UM, CONCEPTS AND MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO PURSUE ONE OF THOSE IN THIS, UM, NEXT RATE UPDATE.

AND SO WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT BACK OVER TO FRANK.

OKAY.

THANK YOU, JENNIFER.

UM, GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE RECOMMENDATIONS HERE AND THEN, UH, I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK SO THAT WE, UH, HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT, UM, KINDA RATES WE NEED TO INCLUDE IN OUR FY 25, UH, OPERATING BUDGET.

UM, AS JENNIFER SAID, A FULL RATE STUDY TAKES, UH, TIME AND IS EXPENSIVE.

SO, UM, WE DON'T SEE THE NEED TO CHANGE THE WAY THE RATES ARE STRUCTURED.

UH, SO WE RECOMMEND DOING THE TWO STEP PROCESS THAT SHE TALKED ABOUT IS JUST LOOKING AT THE REVENUES THAT WE NEED TO COLLECT AND, UH, BASING THE RATES ON COLLECTING THAT REQUIRED REVENUE.

UM, ONLY RECOMMEND, UH, RECOMMENDED CHANGE TO THE TIER WOULD BE TO BRING THE LOWEST, UM, TIER TO AT LEAST THE COST OF WATER THAT THE CITY IS PAYING.

UM, OTHERWISE, EXPLAIN THAT, THAT WHEN YOU SAY BRING THE LOWEST TIER TO COST OF WATER, SO, SO THE ZERO TO 2000, UH, GALLON USER MM-HMM .

IS CURRENTLY PAYING $2 AND 72 CENTS PER THOUSAND GALLONS.

AND THAT'S SAME AS, UH, ON MULTIFAMILY.

UH, WHAT I'M RECOMMENDING IS THAT THAT BE, UH, ADJUSTED TO, SO AN FY 25, IT WOULD BE $3 AND 65 CENTS PER THOUSAND GALLON.

'CAUSE THAT IS THE COST THAT, THAT'S THE ACTUAL COST THE CD IS PAYING.

OKAY.

UH, TO BOW FOR THAT WATER.

UH, AND AS I SAID, AF AFTER I FINISHED, THEN, UH, I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK.

AND SO WE KNOW HOW TO STRUCTURE THE FY 25 RATES.

UM, UH, OTHERWISE, LIKE I SAY, JUST AND ACROSS THE BOARD, UM, UH, RATE ADJUSTMENT TO COLLECT THE REVENUES THAT ARE REQUIRED, UM, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND, UH, WINTER AVERAGING OR A SEWER

[00:15:01]

AND, UH, BECAUSE IT JUST DOESN'T ENCOURAGE, UH, CONSERVATION, LIKE NOT HAVING A SEWER CAP DOES.

UM, I, I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT NOT ALL OF THAT WATER IS GOING DOWN THE SEWER WHEN THEY USE VERY HIGH VOLUMES.

BUT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S JUST A CONSERVATION, UH, UH, ENCOURAGEMENT REALLY.

UM, UH, SO, AND THEN THE LAST THING, UH, I WAS GOING TO MENTION IS THAT, UH, WE WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH THE FINANCE COMMITTEE TO DEVELOP A RATE PHILOSOPHY, UH, FOR, UH, COUNSEL TO CONSIDER.

UH, THINGS WE CAN LAY OUT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, FUNDING LEVELS, UH, DEBT WORKING CAPITAL RESERVES AND, AND RATE ADJUSTMENTS.

SO, UM, WE FEEL LIKE HAVING A POLICY WILL MAKE, YOU KNOW, THIS, UM, GOES EASIER EVERY YEAR THAT WE BRING OUR BUDGET.

SO, UM, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

UM, YOU KNOW, WE'D BE HAPPY TO GET YOUR INPUT AND, AND THOUGHTS.

SO I JUST WANNA OPEN UP TO DISCUSSION FROM COUNSEL.

ANY QUESTIONS? I KNOW, I KNOW I HAVE ONE OR TWO, BUT ANY QUESTIONS AT LEAST WHAT'S BEEN PRESENTED SO FAR? YES, MA'AM.

UM, I, I KNOW I, I STILL WANNA DIGEST IT A LITTLE MORE, BUT, UM, I, I THINK I WOULD LIKE THE RECOMMENDED STRUCTURE.

UM, BUT AS WE TALK ABOUT CONSERV, UH, CONSERVANCY AND MOVING FORWARD, HAVE WE LOOKED AT POSSIBLY, I KNOW, UM, CORPUS CHRISTI OFFERS THE, THE RAIN BARRELS, UM, TO TRY TO TACKLE WATER CONSERVATION.

UM, I DON'T KNOW THE COST OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I JUST SAW IT ON THEIR FACEBOOK THAT IT POPPED UP.

AND SO COULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT IN THE FUTURE OR DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, AS WE DETERMINE COST TO DO THAT? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY DO IT IN HOUSE OR IT'S PARTNERING WITH ANOTHER ONE.

I JUST SAW IT POP UP ON MY FEED, UM, FOR RESIDENTS TO PICK UP THEIR RAINBOWS.

UM, OKAY.

SO JUST A THOUGHT.

AND, AND I'M LOOKING MORE AT OUR LOW COST FAMILIES THAT IF THEY'RE NOT WATERING OR IRRIGATING THEIR YARD, BECAUSE I KNOW AS A CHILD I WAS ALWAYS INSTILLED, GO IN THERE AND TAKE THE COOKIE SHOWER THAT YOU CAN OR WHATEVER.

AND, UM, SO, UH, YOU, YOU WOULD SAY THE RING BARRELS WOULD BE USED FOR, FOR IRRIGATION, IRRIGATION AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

YEAH.

RIGHT.

UM, BUT IT, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN STILL, I HAD A RING BARREL AT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF MY, UH, FORMER HOUSES, UHHUH, I THINK I, I BOUGHT IT, IT WAS MAYBE A HUNDRED DOLLARS OR SO AND USED IT TO, YOU KNOW, HELP FILL UP THE POOL YEAH.

AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT, UM, IT, I, I SEE IT AS HAVING KIND OF A MINOR IMPACT THOUGH.

OKAY.

UH, FOR OUR NEEDS.

RIGHT.

OKAY.

BUT WE CAN CHECK INTO IT.

YES, MA'AM.

THANK YOU.

THANKS, MA'AM.

I, I DIDN'T CATCH YOUR NAME, I'M SORRY.

WHEN YOU SPEAK, UH, JENNIFER.

OH, JENNIFER, UH, WHEN JENNIFER WAS GOING OVER SOME OF THE ITEMS WITH US, SHE WAS SAYING THAT, UM, USUALLY THE HOMES THAT USE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF WATER ARE, UM, LOWER INCOME, COULD POSSIBLY BE LOWER INCOME, SMALLER HOUSEHOLDS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO MY CONCERN IS, IS IF WE BRING THE WATER RATE UP ONLY FOR THE BOTTOM TIER, THAT IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO, YEAH.

THAT, THAT WASN'T MY RECOMMENDATION.

IT WAS ONE STEP TO BRING THE LOWER RATE UP TO THE COST OF WATER AND THEN LOOK AT THE REVENUES, UH, REQUIRED AND ADJUST THE OTHER RATES AS NECESSARY ON A PERCENTAGE BASIS.

BUT YOUR FIRST RECOMMENDATION, SO I'M, NOW I'M CONFUSED.

YOUR FIRST RECOMMENDATION IS TO TAKE THE BOTTOM TIER AND BRING IT UP TO THE COST OF WATER? YES.

FROM BA YES.

SO AM I CORRECT IN UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WOULD IMPACT THE HOMES THAT USE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF WATER? THE GREATEST IT, IT WILL IMPACT EVERYBODY.

IT WILL, IT WOULD IMPACT EVERYBODY, YES.

BUT, OH, I, I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WOULD BE INCREASED, BUT, UH, THEY WERE BEING HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED RIGHT NOW.

OKAY.

AND YEAH, I MEAN, THAT WAS YOUR, THAT WAS YOUR POINT.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD.

OKAY.

ANY YES, SIR.

YEAH.

SO KIND OF, SO YOU HAD SAID WE HAVEN'T HAD AN INCREASE IN RACE SINCE 2014 ON THE WATER.

CORRECT.

UH, SO IN 24 WE HAD A 6% INCREASE, BUT, AND THEN WE ADJUSTED THE, THE STRUCTURE AND THE RATES IN DECEMBER OF 22.

PRIOR TO THAT, IT WAS 2014 ON WATER IN 2019 ON SEWER.

OKAY.

YEAH.

'CAUSE I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I KIND OF LOOKED AT SOME OF THE RATES IN THE SURROUNDING AREAS, AND EVEN AT 365,

[00:20:01]

AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME RECENT INCREASES IN SURROUNDING, UH, COMMUNITIES.

UM, YEAH.

YOU KNOW, WE HAD COMPARISON FOR 8,000 GALLONS.

THEY'RE, THEY'RE A LOT HIGHER THAN WE WOULD BE.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

YES, SIR.

UH, APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION.

UM, I WOULD AGREE WITH BRINGING THE, THE LOWEST TIER UP TO THE COST OF WATER.

UM, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THE PAST, JUST, UM, MAKING SURE WE'RE AT LEAST, UM, BREAKING EVEN THERE.

UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK IN THE PAST WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF THE LOW VOLUME USERS OR SENIOR CITIZENS AND, AND WE JUST INCREASED THEIR HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION IN OUR LAST MEETING.

SO, UM, I DO THINK WE HELP THEM OUT IN OTHER WAYS.

UM, SO IT'S GONNA HELP OVERALL THIS FUND TO AT LEAST BE BREAKING EVEN ON THAT TIER.

SO I AGREE WITH THAT.

UM, I'M STILL GONNA HAVE TO CHEW ON THE SEWER CAP, WINTER AVERAGING, UM, KIND OF THINK THROUGH THE OPTIONS THERE.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

UM, I UNDERSTAND THE ENCOURAGING CONSERVATION ASPECT TO IT.

UM, I THINK WE ALREADY, WE ALSO DO THAT THROUGH THE WATER RATE ITSELF.

UM, SO WE MAY NOT NEED TO DO IT ON WATER AND SEWER.

UM, AND SO YEAH, I'LL HAVE TO, I'LL HAVE TO THINK A BIT MORE ON THAT.

BUT, UM, BUT I APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION.

I DEFINITELY THINK HAVING MORE, UM, OF A, THAT THREE TO FIVE YEAR PROJECTION AND MORE OF A PHILOSOPHY IS DEFINITELY GONNA HELP US GOING FORWARD.

SO LOOK FORWARD TO DISCUSSING THAT MORE.

RIGHT.

AND LIKE I SAY, I, I DON'T NEED ANSWERS TODAY, BUT AS WE GO THROUGH OUR BUDGET DISCUSSIONS, WE, WE NEED TO KIND OF SETTLE ON SOMETHING BEFORE WE PRESENT, UH, A FINAL BUDGET.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

UM, I GOT A COUPLE THINGS, FRANK, AS ALWAYS, WE KNOW THAT THE COST OF WATER IS 365 OR PER THOUSAND PER 2025 PER THOUSAND, 2020.

WHAT'S THE COST PER SEWER PER THOUSAND? WHAT'S IT COST US TO TREAT A THOUSAND POUNDS OF SEW? I, I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

HEAD.

I'D LIKE TO, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CALCULATE THAT OUT.

MM-HMM .

UM, WHAT'S THE BASE FEE COVER? BECAUSE BOTH WATER AND SEWER IN, IN RIGHT.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, IN THE PRESENTATION WOULD KIND OF, THAT'S USUALLY, YOU KNOW, COMBINE BOTH.

BUT LET'S SEPARATE OUT WHAT'S THE BASE BASE BASE FEES USUALLY COVER ADMINISTRATIVE, UH, OKAY.

COSTS LIKE UTILITY BILLING, READING YOUR METERS.

OKAY.

UM, PROVIDING THE BILLS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

ALL RIGHT.

SO SO THAT'S WHAT THAT CUSTOMER SERVICE.

CUSTOMER SERVICE.

YEAH.

SO THAT'S WHAT MAKES, HOW MUCH DOES IT COST PER THOUSAND TO TREAT THE SEWAGE? UM, I AGREE WITH THE COMMENT FROM MY COLLEAGUE IS WE'RE KIND OF DOUBLE DIPPING ON THIS CONSERVATION EFFORT.

I MEAN, WE'RE ALREADY HAMMERING FOLKS IF THEY USE MORE THAN THREE TO 6,000 GALLONS ON THE WATER SIDE, AND THEN WE'RE DOUBLE HAMMERING THEM AGAIN FOR THE SEWER SIDE.

SO, WELL AGAIN, UH, WE JUST NEED TO COLLECT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF REVENUE.

YEP.

AND HOW WE DO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WHY, SO IT'S EASY WITH WATER.

'CAUSE YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, WATER'S GONNA COST US 365 PER THOUSAND.

WELL, THAT'S JUST THE COST TO GET TO THE WATER FROM GET THE WATER FROM BALA.

YEAH.

UH, WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT GO INTO IT.

I GOT IT.

TO DELIVER IT TO THE CUSTOMER.

YEAH.

SO I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT.

AND, AND THEN AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S ALMOST COUNTERINTUITIVE FOR ME THAT IF, IF WE HAVE A, 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW WE SAY FOR EVERY THOUSAND GALLONS OF WATER YOU USE, WE CHARGE YOU A THOUSAND GALLONS OF SEWER.

BUT WE KNOW THAT YOU DON'T USE A THOUSAND GALLONS OF SEWER.

SO IF WE'RE TREATING LESS SEWER, YOU KNOW, SHOULDN'T THE COST GO DOWN? I, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH IS GOING TO YEAH.

TO THE SEWER BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM HAVE, YOU KNOW, I AND I PROBLEMS. YEAH.

AND THEY'RE GETTING, WELL, THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE INFLOW INTO THEIR PRIVATE SEWER SYSTEM THAT WE ARE HAVING TO TREAT.

SO UNLESS YOU METER, WHICH YOU CAN'T RIGHT.

CAN'T, CAN'T DO THE METER UNLESS YOU METER IT.

YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING DOWN THERE.

AND I GOT THAT.

BUT AGAIN, THERE'S AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MUCH, IF I USE A THOUSAND GALLONS OF POTABLE WATER, I MEAN, I'M DRINKING SOME OF THAT.

I'M COOKING WITH SOME OF THAT, I'M WASHING MY CAR WITH SOME OF THAT.

AND THIS, SO NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT GOES BACK TO THE SANITARY SEWER.

AND THERE'S SOME CALCULATIONS THAT, THAT ARE PRETTY STANDARD THAT YOU CAN SAY THAT IS 20% OR WHATEVER.

IT'S GONNA VARY BASED ON THE CUSTOMER, CUSTOMER.

SO ALSO VARIES WHAT KIND OF HOUSE THEY HAVE, WHAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, SO AGAIN, IT, IT'S NOT A ONE FOR ONE, HOW MANY, HOW MANY TIMES THEY WASH LAUNDRY? YEP.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DO A LOT MORE LAUNDRY THAN OTHERS, BUT THAT, THAT GOES TO SAN TERRY SEWER.

I'M TALKING ABOUT STUFF THAT DOESN'T, UH, WELL, I'M SAYING IT, IT DIFFERS FOR EVERY RIGHT CUSTOMER.

IT DOES.

BUT, AND I CAN'T, MY POINT IS IT'S NOT ONE, IT'S NOT A ONE FOR ONE, IT'S NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT.

I, I AGREE.

BUT WE CHARGE 'EM A HUNDRED PERCENT AND THEN WE CHARGE 'EM AN EXTRA FEE FOR THAT.

SO WE JUST NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN CONTINUE TO RAISE FEES, BUT WE'RE JUST GONNA OUTPRICE OUR CITIZENS AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

SO WE NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF THAT.

[00:25:01]

AND THEN, UH, AGAIN, MY SIDE IS, I, I THINK WE'RE DOUBLE DIPPING IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE RAISING THE RATES ON THE WATER SIDE AND THEN RAISING THE RATES AGAIN ON THE SEWER SIDE FOR CONSERVATION PURPOSES, THAT'S, THAT'S A DOUBLE DIP TO ME.

SO BE INTERESTED TO SEE HOW WE GO FORWARD.

ANY YES, SIR.

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. OW AND FOR YOUR, FOR YOUR PRESENTATION AS WELL.

UM, JUST A QUICK QUESTION.

I, I KNOW THERE'S NO WAY OF TELLING, UH, HOW MUCH, UH, PER THOUSAND A SEWER THAT WE PULL IN, BUT IS THERE AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO YEARLY MAINTAIN OUR PUMP STATIONS THAT PUMP OUT OUR SEWER? CORRECT.

SO OUR PUMP STATIONS PUMP OUT SEWER FROM, FROM HOUSES.

RIGHT.

UM, HOW MUCH DO WE PAY FOR THAT? WELL, WE HAVE, WE HAVE, UH, LIFT STATIONS PART OF OUR COLLECTION SYSTEM BECAUSE BAYTOWN IS VERY FLAT.

RIGHT.

WE CAN'T, UH, FLOW EVERYTHING.

WE ONLY HAVE FOUR WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS.

SO NOT EVERYTHING FLOWS BY GRAVITY TO THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT.

WE HAVE, IT GOES TO A LOW POINT, THEN WE PUMP IT TO EVENTUALLY GET TO THE, UM, TO THE TREATMENT PLANT.

AND WE HAVE, I THINK, 87 LIFT STATIONS AROUND THE CITY.

RIGHT.

AND, AND THAT'S SO THAT, THAT JUST GOES INTO OUR OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE COSTS AND, AND OUR CAPITAL, UH, IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS TO REHABILITATE THOSE.

RIGHT.

IS THERE AN AVERAGE THAT'S ALL FIGURED? IS THERE AN AVERAGE, WOULD YOU SAY A YEAR WE PAY SO FAR IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, WHAT'S THE AVERAGE, UH, THAT WE PAID FOR JUST MAINTENANCE WOULD YOU SAY? SAY JUST THE O AND M ON RIGHT STATION ON OUR PUMP STATION LIFT STATIONS.

I DON'T KNOW IF STERLING, WE ALL HAVE COME ON, UH, THAT, THAT'S GONNA BE A HARD, I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE IN THE BUDGET THAT WE CAN PULL OUT, YOU KNOW, OUR O AND M EXPENSES FOR, I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND.

I THINK COUNCILMAN, YOU'RE ASKING, IS THERE A ANNUAL MAINTENANCE COST ON OUR 87 LIFT STATIONS? IS THAT BROKEN OUT? OUR, OUR, THE WAY OUR BUDGET IS THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT AND THE, UM, THE LIFT STATIONS OR COMBINED IN RIGHT.

I ONE BUDGET.

IT'S ALL A COLLECTION SYSTEM, BUT SO IT'S ALL IN THE COLLECTION SYSTEM.

I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.

I'D LIKE TO KNOW THE AVERAGE OF, OF THE LAST FIVE YEARS, HOW MUCH WE PAID FOR JUST GENERAL MAINTENANCE ON OUR LIFT STATIONS, WHICH IT'S MAINTENANCE ON THE LIFT STATION.

YEAH.

OKAY.

YEAH, THERE, I I, I I THINK IT'S GONNA VARY BECAUSE WE HAVE DIFFERENT SIZE LIFT STATIONS.

SOME ARE VERY LARGE, SOME ARE VERY SMALL.

OKAY.

UM, IT, IT'S GONNA VARY AND, AND IT'S HARD TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT'S THE MAINTENANCE COST FOR EACH LIFT STATION, YOU KNOW, INDIVIDUALLY.

I MEAN, IT'S A, YEAH.

I MEAN YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING AS A COLLECTIVE AVERAGE.

RIGHT.

RIGHT.

I DON'T MEAN, I DON'T THINK HE MEANS INDIVIDUAL.

RIGHT.

I'M SAYING AS A, HOW MUCH A CITY PAYS ON AVERAGE, I GUESS I'M, I'M TRYING TO GET TO WHERE, WHERE ARE YOU JUST MAYBE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET TO HOLD ON MR. SIMINO.

SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THEY UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION AND THAT WE GET TO WHAT YOU'RE SEEKING.

SO YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY, IS THERE A COST, CAN A COST BE CALCULATED FOR ANY MAINTENANCE THAT IS PERFORMED ON OUR 87 LIFT STATIONS? YES.

RIGHT.

SO I WOULD ASSUME ANYTIME THAT WE HAVE TO HIRE EITHER A THIRD PARTY TO COME IN, I MEAN, IT COULD HAPPEN.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

UM, I'M NOT SURE WE'RE DOING ANY NEW LIFT.

THERE IS THE BAKER ROAD LIFT STATION, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S A REHABILITATION, RIGHT? IT'S REHAB.

SO, BUT THAT'S A COST.

BUT THOSE ARE MAINLY CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS.

THOSE ARE CAPITAL, THEY'RE LIKE, THEY'RE REALLY NOT ONGOING MAINTENANCE, BUT IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SEEKING, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE IT.

BUT, UM, I MEAN, I GUESS THE ENERGY THAT IS, THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CALCULATE THAT, BUT I'M ASSUMING, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? RIGHT.

I'M, I'M JUST, JUST LOOKING JUST WHAT, WHAT IT COSTS THE CITY GENERALLY TO, TO KEEP THOSE LIFT STATIONS UP ON A YEAR TO YEAR BASIS ON AVERAGE, WE WE'LL TRY TO PUT TOGETHER SOMETHING.

YEAH.

RIGHT.

KIM, CAN I ASK WHAT THE END GOAL IS? MR. YEAH, I JUST TRYING TO GET A IDEA OF WHAT IT TAKES TO GET SEWAGE OUTTA PEOPLE'S HOMES.

AND IT'S MAYBE A COST THAT I, I GUESS WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH IS NOT JUST A LIFT STATION, RIGHT.

IT'S A WHOLE COLLECTION SYSTEM AND TREATMENT.

SO, UM, I MEAN, I CAN GIVE YOU ALL THE COSTS.

YEAH, I UNDERSTAND COSTS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD REALLY, THAT, THAT SEPARATING THAT INFORMATION.

I DON'T KNOW, DO WITH IT BECAUSECAUSE IT COULD BE HOW IT TIES TO OUR BRAKE.

RIGHT.

WELL, IT'S PART OF THE WHOLE THING.

I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S OBVIOUSLY, SO I'D LIKE TO, IF THE COUNSEL DOESN'T MIND, KIND OF REDIRECT THE CONVERSATION BECAUSE SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT, THAT, THAT ARE BEING FOCUSED ON AT THIS POINT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE ENTIRE PHILOSOPHY OF THE CONVERSATION.

AND WHAT, AND TO KIND OF RECAP IT TO TRY TO HELP, TO HELP COME BACK, WHAT I'M HEARING IS THERE'S STILL CONCERN THAT WE'RE, THAT PE THAT CITIZENS ARE PAYING FOR WATER THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO THE SEWER SYSTEM.

SO THAT IS A CONCERN.

THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN THAT, THAT MR. SEMINO

[00:30:01]

THAT'S NOT GOING TO THE SANITARY SEWER SYSTEM OR THROUGH IT.

WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO INCREASE RATES ON THE WATER SIDE TO HELP, UH, TO HELP CONTROL SOME OF THE, UM, UM, EXCESS USAGE AT THE SAME TIME.

SO I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE, THE CON, THE COMPREHENSIVE COUNCIL HERE.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT WATER RATES ARE GONNA HAVE TO INCREASE AND ACCORDING TO JENNIFER'S RATES, IT COULD BE UP TO 40 TO 50%.

OKAY.

I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR THAT WATER RATES MAY HAVE TO INCREASE 40 TO 50% SO THAT WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR E EXCESS SEWAGE.

THAT IS NOT GOING DOWN THE SANITARY SEWER SYSTEM.

I KNOW THAT THE, THE, I KNOW THAT THE, UH, THE PRESENTATION WAS STRICTLY FOR SEWAGE RATES AND THAT 40, 40, 50% FOR SEWAGE RATES, I'M JUST BRINGING IT IN AS A WHOLE, THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND.

THE, THE REAL QUESTION AT HAND IS IF WE'RE NOT GONNA, IF WE'RE GONNA SAVE, WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR MORE THAN 12,000, THAT MONEY STILL HAS TO COVER THE OVERALL EXPENSES OF THE ENTIRE SYSTEM.

AND THAT MR. SEMINO IS SAYING THAT IF WE'RE NOT DOING THAT ON THE SEWER SYSTEM, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IT ON THE WATER SYSTEM AS WELL, THE WATER AND SEWER SYSTEM.

BUT THE SEWER IS SEPARATE THAN WATER STILL.

WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT TOO.

RIGHT.

I'M TRYING TO BRING IT ALL BACK.

IT'S A, IT'S A COMBINED FUND, RIGHT? YOU NO, YOU'RE, YOU'RE CORRECT.

THE ONLY THING I WANT TO CORRECT IS THAT THE 40 50% WAS FOR WINTER AVERAGE, A WINTER AVERAGING.

YEP.

SORRY.

UH, THE SEWER CAP WOULD BE A, A LOWER IMPACT.

BUT AGAIN, THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE, WE HAVE COSTS THAT WE HAVE TO RECOUP AND, UH, IN ORDER TO OPERATE AND MAINTAIN THE SYSTEM PROPERLY.

SO, UM, ONE SECOND.

WE, WE JUST HAVE TO COLLECT THOSE REVENUES.

YEP.

SO LET ME ASK A FEW QUESTIONS AND I'LL GET TO YOU MA'AM, IF THAT'S OKAY.

I HAVE, I I I DO HAVE A FEW, I GUESS, UM, MORE THEORETICAL QUESTIONS.

UM, I, I THINK THERE IS CERTAINLY LOOKS LIKE THERE'S AT LEAST A CONSENSUS THAT COUNSEL WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING NOT IN A HUNDRED PERCENT SEWER RATE, IN A SENSE WHERE A HUNDRED, ASSUMING A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE WATER THAT WENT THROUGH A CITIZEN'S HOME IS ALSO GETTING INTO THE SANITARY BACK INTO THE SAN SANITARY SEWER SYSTEM.

I, I, IT SEEMS LIKE WE WANT SOMETHING IN A WAY TO BETTER CONTROL THAT.

OKAY.

I WANT TO BACK UP INTO WHEN I KNOW WHEN CONSERVATION RATES HAD TO BE IMPLEMENTED, WHICH IS, I DON'T KNOW, BETWEEN 2005 AND 2010.

I'M NOT SURE.

SO AT THE TIME, I, I PROBABLY UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT BETTER, UM, WHY WE DID THAT.

THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS STATEWIDE AND ACROSS THE WHOLE STATE.

PEOPLE WERE, WERE, UH, ALL, A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES AND COUNTIES WERE HAVING TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF JUST WATER IN GENERAL.

RIGHT.

SO THE QUESTION I ASKED WOULD BE IN THIS, SHOULD WE KEEP CONSERVATION RATES STILL? UM, I, I WOULD SAY YES.

IT'S NOT JUST THE SCARCITY OF WATER.

IT'S, UH, THE COST OF PROVIDING, UM, THE ADDITIONAL CAPACITY AND THE HIGH VOLUME USERS, THE ONES THAT USE 12,000 GALLONS AND MORE, THOSE ARE DRIVING YOUR PEAK DEMANDS.

AND WE HAVE TO PLAN FOR CAPACITY BASED ON OUR PEAK DEMAND.

RIGHT.

AND THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO HAVE CAPACITY IF THE, IF THE PEAK ENDS UP BEING, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT ABOUT 32 MILLION GALLONS, UH, PER DAY OF CAPACITY.

OKAY? BUT WE'RE ONLY BILLING ON AN AVERAGE DAY, YOU KNOW, 17 TO 18 MILLION GALLONS.

SO WE'RE PROVIDING CAPACITY AND THAT'S A CAPITAL COST THAT, UH, THE CITY AND BAWA INCUR CAPITAL COST TO PROVIDE THAT PEAK CAPACITY THAT'S NOT BEING USED ALL THE TIME.

RIGHT.

SO, SO THAT'S KIND OF IS MY NEXT QUESTION.

SO I NEED SOME DATA, UM, TO, TO, TO MAP MY, TO WRAP MY MIND AROUND A LITTLE, A FEW THINGS I GUESS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

WE HAVE, I'M ASSUMING STOLE BETWEEN 20 2020 3000 OR SOME SOMETHING USERS.

IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? 22 ON THE WATER SIDE IS, UH, STERLING.

I MEAN, IT, IT DOESN'T, IT'S IRRELEVANT.

20, WE'LL JUST SAY 22,000, FINE.

WE'LL JUST, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH 22,000.

IT'S NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

BUT WHAT I NEED TO KNOW, THIS IS THE DATA I NEED.

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, OUT OF THE USERS, OUT OF THE 22,000 PLUS OR MINUS WHATEVER USERS, HOW MANY USE, LIKE HOW MANY USE MORE THAN 15,000? HOW MANY USE MORE THAN THAT? THAT WAS PART OF OUR LAST, UM, PRESENTATION, I THINK ON YEAH, IN GENERAL.

BUT I, I CAN, BUT LIKE, AND THE REASON WHY, IF GET THAT BACK, 2% OF OUR USERS ARE USING MORE THAN 15,000 GALLON, THAT'S A VERY SMALL GROUP, RIGHT? SO WE'RE TRYING TO GO AND, AND, AND OBVIOUSLY WE WANT TO BE AS, UM, AS FAIR AS POSSIBLE TO THOSE THAT ARE EITHER LOW USERS AND THEY MAY BE LOW USERS BECAUSE THEY

[00:35:01]

AND WE, WE TRY CERTAINLY TO TRY TO, UM, KEEP COSTS AS LOW AS POSSIBLE TO OUR SENIOR CITIZENS.

SO I THINK ONE WAY, AND IT'S JUST, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES THEY SAY CITIES SHOULD OPERATE LIKE BUSINESSES.

THIS IS ONE INSTANCE WHERE IF OUR COST FOR WATER IS $3 AND 65 CENTS, THEN THAT SHOULD BE KIND OF ACROSS THE BOARD FOR THE MOST PART, RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT'S THE COST, THAT'S THE COST FOR THE WATER, RIGHT? IF IT'S 1000 GALLONS USED OR 12,000 GALLONS, USE 365.

BUT THAT MEANS THAT WE ARE ABLE TO, WELL, THAT, THAT IS NOT OUR COMPLETE COST OF WATER.

THAT'S JUST OKAY.

THE COST TO GET IT FROM BAWA, THE PLANT AT BAWA, OKAY, I'M USING 365 THEORETICALLY.

THEN I GUESS, 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE BASE FEE COVERS THE, I CALL IT GENERAL ADMINISTRATION OF, OF EVERYTHING.

BUT, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, YOU COME UP WITH A FIGURE TO COUNSEL TO SAY, THIS IS WHAT IT COSTS PER THOUSAND GALLONS FOR US TO PROVIDE OUR CITIZENS.

OKAY? SO IF WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY CONSERVATION TIER, JUST WHAT'S THE COST? I MEAN, ONE RATE, WE CAN'T FOR THE END OF THE DAY, OKAY, MR. JIM, PLEASE LISTEN.

THE END OF THE DAY, I'M TRYING, IF, IF WE ARE GOING AND IT COSTS US $3 AND 65 CENTS FOR A THOUSAND GALLONS OF WATER, ANYTHING THAT WE DO, AND IT'S, IT WOULD BE A COUNCIL POLICY OR DECISION.

BUT ANYTHING WE DO THAT CHARGE LESS THAN THAT, WE'RE HAVING TO MAKE UP SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THAT WAS YOUR POINT IN THE PRESENTATION.

SO IT'S A DECISION THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE IS DO WE JUST SAY THIS IS THE COST, THERE'S NOTHING ADDED TO IT.

THIS IS, THIS IS THE COST.

ANYTHING LESS THAN THAT PUTS US WHERE WE HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE BY OTHER MEANS POINT BLANK.

RIGHT? SO THAT'S THE POINT.

I WANNA BE, I WANNA BE AS BASIC AS POSSIBLE.

THIS IS THE COST THAT'S UP TO YOU AND YOUR TEAM TO FIGURE OUT.

SO WITH THAT, THAT'S THE COST OF WATER.

WITH SEWER, I, IT'D BE HARD FOR ME TO, TO REALLY JUSTIFY THAT WE'RE GONNA CHARGE 100% WATER IN AND 100% SEWER OUT.

I WANNA SEE SOMETHING IF THAT'S A CAP, IF THAT'S SOMETHING I'M NOT SURE ABOUT SOME OF THE DATA YOU MAY BE SEEKING.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT DOES COST US, COST THE CITY, OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A COST OF, OF SOME WAY FOR YOU TO CALCULATE WHAT DOES IT COST US TO OPERATE THE WASTEWATER, RIGHT? SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE APPROACH I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

I'D LIKE TO KNOW AS FAR AS THE DATA IN A SENSE YOU SAY POWER USERS OR WHATEVER, WHERE, WHERE DO OUR, WHERE DO OUR USERS REALLY, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S 50% USE, 5,000 GALLONS OR LESS.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING FOR US TO CONSIDER.

DO WE NEED TIERS OR NOT? I DON'T KNOW.

I, I DON'T KNOW.

AND THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING, SHOULD WE KEEP THE CONSERVATION RATES RIGHT? BECAUSE IF YOU KEEP IT 365, DON'T MATTER HOW MANY THOUSAND GALLONS YOU USE, THEN IT WOULD BE A SOLVENT FUND.

THAT'S, IT SHOULD BE A SOLVENT FUND, EXCUSE ME.

AND I'M USING 365 BECAUSE THAT'S THE NUMBER YOU PUT IN FRONT OF US.

SO THAT WAS MY FIRST QUESTION.

THE NEXT WOULD BE IT PROBABLY JUST MAKES IT EASIER.

EASIER.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S JUST BECAUSE THE OLD ANALOG METERS WERE PRETTY MUCH BY THE THOUSANDS, RIGHT? AND SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY HAVE ALMOST USED 7,000 GALLONS, BUT YOU JUST USED 6,000 GALLONS AND YOU KIND OF CATCH UP THE NEXT BILLING CYCLE OR NEXT REED.

BUT ARE WE ABLE TO, TO BILL BY THE GALLON? I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S FINE.

YOU KNOW, NO, I'M JUST ASKING.

SO, SO, AND I'M FINE WITH A THOUSAND GALLONS, BUT I JUST HAD TO ASK THE QUESTION.

RIGHT.

SO, UM, THAT'S FINE.

SO MY QUESTION IS, I I, I WOULD LIKE A, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT TODAY, I WANT YOU TO HAVE A THOUGHTFUL ANSWER AND RESPONSE OF WHY WE SHOULD KEEP CONSERVATION RATES.

OKAY.

SO THAT'S MY, THAT THOSE ARE, THAT'S MY TAKE ON THE DISCUSSION SO FAR.

YES, MA'AM.

UM, MR. FRANCO HAD BROUGHT UP THAT HE LOOKED INTO THE WATER RATES OF OTHER COMMUNITIES, AND Y'ALL HAVE SHOWN US SOMETHING BEFORE IN THE PAST, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO REQUEST FROM STAFF IS, UM, WHEN WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THE BUDGET AND, AND THE DECISIONS WE'RE GONNA MAKE WITH THE WATER, UH, A LOT OF TIMES CITIZENS, THEY'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE BILL AS A WHOLE.

THEY DON'T NECESSARILY LOOK AT, UM, THE WATER PER GALLON.

I MEAN, SOME OF THEM, WHEN THEY'RE DIGGING INTO THE BILL, THEY START LOOKING AT THE WATER PER GALLON AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE BILL AS A WHOLE AND HOW IT IMPACTS THEIR, THEIR MONTHLY, UM, BUDGETS.

RIGHT? SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, AND THEN MAYBE EVEN BE ABLE TO OFFER UP TO, TO CITIZENS THAT ARE ASKING ME IS, I, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE COMMUNITIES WITH THE, THE WATER RATES THAT FRANCO BROUGHT UP.

I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THEIR BASE SEWAGE RATE IS COMPARED TO OURS, BECAUSE, UM, IF NOTHING ELSE, I WANNA BE ABLE TO SHOW CITIZENS THAT RATES ARE GOING UP ALL OVER.

IT IS NOT ISOLATED JUST TO BAYTOWN.

UM, AND SO NOT ONLY IS THE 365 A GALLON, UM, IMPORTANT NUMBER TO SEE, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, ARE WE DOUBLE DIPPING ALL OF THESE THINGS? I, I ALMOST WANT LIKE A T CHART, YOU KNOW, UM, AND I'M JUST GONNA SAY PARA PER LAND CHARGES

[00:40:01]

BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, MOST CITIZENS ARE JUST LOOKING AT HOW THAT ONE BILL AS A WHOLE FITS INTO THEIR BUDGET.

SO THE WAY, THE WAY WE PRESENTED IT IN THE PAST WAS AN AVERAGE USER OF 5,000 GALLONS.

MM-HMM .

HOW MUCH IS A BILL FOR EACH COMMUNITY? OKAY.

IF YOU USE 5,000 GALLONS, OKAY.

IT, IT GETS VERY COMPLICATED.

PEOPLE, UH, EACH CITY HAS DIFFERENT TIERS, DIFFERENT BASE CHARGES.

SO IT, IT GETS VERY COMPLICATED TO TRY TO COMPARE BASED ON, UH, THE DETAILS.

BUT IF YOU ASSUME LIKE A 2000 GALLON USER OR 5,000 GALLON USER FOR EACH COMMUNITY, WE CAN, UH, COMPARE.

SO AS AN ADULT, I'VE ONLY LIVED AND PAID BILLS IN BAYTOWN.

SO OTHER COMMUNITIES DO NOT HAVE BASE SEWER RATES.

UH, THERE, THERE, THERE IS VARIABILITY.

I MEAN, MOST OF THEM WILL HAVE A BASE RATE.

OKAY.

A BASE CHARGE.

I MEAN, I CAN LOOK INTO IT MYSELF.

I JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD BE EASIER, YOU KNOW, FOR, LET, LET, LET ME ASK, HOLD ON ONE SEC.

SO LET ME A LITTLE BIT ON THE, THE PAYBACK OF WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP.

SO OUR AVERAGE, I WOULD HOPE, I WOULD HOPE ONE OF Y'ALL HERE KNOW THIS, OUR AVERAGE AS A CITY PER USER IS WHAT, 5,000, 6,000, 7,000? SOMEWHERE IN THAT, I WOULD THINK, RIGHT? SO CAN YOU PROVIDE US EXAMPLES BASED OFF OF 6,000 GALLONS USED? IS THAT FAIR? YES.

YEAH.

SO THAT WE'RE KIND OF, IT'S APPLES TO APPLES, RIGHT? AND Y'ALL SHOWED US THAT BEFORE WE DID THAT.

I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN THE, I JUST THINK THAT FRANCO AND LESTER BOTH BROUGHT UP GOOD POINTS, WHETHER IT'S DOUBLE DIPPING OR WHETHER WE'RE CHARGING THE SAME OR UNDER THE WATER RATES.

I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE VERY SPECIFIC ANSWERS TO CITIZENS WHEN THESE BILLS GO UP, WE WILL HAVE THE SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION FOR YOU.

YEAH, I WANNA BE ABLE TO SAY, WELL IF YOU, IF, IF, IF BAYTOWN IS SO EXPENSIVE AND YOU MOVE OVER HERE, THIS IS WHAT YOUR BASE SEWER RATE WOULD BE AND WHAT YOUR WATER RATE WOULD BE HERE.

I JUST, I DON'T WELL, I MEAN IT, SO I MEAN THERE'S, THE OTHER THING I WAS GONNA ASK, I WAS GONNA ASK YOU IS THERE'S SOME CITIES THAT DON'T BREAK OUT SEWER AND WATER, SEWER WATER.

OKAY.

IT'S JUST ONE FEE.

OKAY? IT'S JUST A FLAT SEWER AND WATER FEE.

SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU PUT SEWER AND WATER, HOWEVER, IT'S GONNA BE, THEY HAVE A COST THAT NEEDS TO BE COVERED AND IT'S EITHER, EITHER YOU'RE GONNA LOWER THE SEWER RATE AND RATE AND RAISE THE WATER RATE HIGHER, OR YOU'RE GONNA TRY TO OFFSET IT WHERE THERE'S TWO NUMBERS.

OVERALL IT'S GOTTA BE FOR 8,000 GALLONS OR SIX.

WELL, EACH AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD IS 1.51 1,500 GALLONS PER PER OCCUPANT.

MM-HMM .

PER THE HOUSE.

SO IT'S BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE GONNA TRY TO FIGURE OUT FOR YOUR HOUSES.

WHAT HE'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS, HEY, EACH HOUSE IS 8,000 GALLONS.

WE'VE GOT 23,000 USERS, IT'S X TIMES 23,000.

IT COSTS LET'S SAY $10 MILLION.

HOW DO WE BREAK THAT OUT PER GALLON? AND THAT'S WHAT HE'S GOTTA FIGURE OUT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S WATER AND SEWER COMBINE OR JUST A ONE ONE RATE FOR BOTH.

HE'S ONE OF IT'S GONNA, YOU'RE GONNA, IT'S JUST LIKE WHEN YOU BUY A CAR, YOU PUSH OVER HERE, THAT'S GONNA COME UP OVER HERE.