* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. UH, WE DO [00:00:01] HAVE, UH, A QUORUM [ CITY OF BAYTOWN NOTICE OF MEETING CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL WORK SESSION TUESDAY, AUGUST 15, 2023 3:30 P.M. CITY OF BAYTOWN FIRE TRAINING FIELD 7022 BAYWAY DRIVE, BAYTOWN, TEXAS 77520 AGENDA CALL TO ORDER AND ANNOUNCEMENT OF QUORUM ] AND IT IS, UH, 3:38 PM UH, WE ARE AT THE, UH, CITY OF BAYTOWN FIRE TRAINING FIELD. UM, WITH THAT, WE HAVE ONE ITEM TO ADDRESS TODAY IS TO DISCUSS CITY OF BAYTOWN FISCAL YEAR 2324 PROPOSED BUDGET. I THINK, UH, THE CITY MANAGER MAY HAVE A FEW REMARKS OR QUESTIONS RIGHT BEFORE WE BEGIN, AND I WANNA JUST MAKE SURE NO ONE HAS SIGNED UP AS OUR FAR A CITIZEN COMMENTS. YES, SIR. OKAY, MAYOR, COUNSEL, UH, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY. UM, WE HAVE A SHORTENED, UH, BUDGET WORKSHOP TODAY, SO, UH, JUST, WE'RE NOT GONNA GET INTO THE NUMBERS AGAIN TODAY. UM, WE ARE ALL THAT WILL BE ADDRESSED TOMORROW. WE'RE GOING TO DO THINGS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. UM, IN THE PAST, WE'VE ALWAYS DONE THE BUDGET PRETTY MUCH THE SAME EXACT WAY. THIS YEAR IT'S BEING DONE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NEW ADMINISTRATION THAT IS LOOKING AT THE BUDGET IN A DIFFERENT WAY. AND, UM, WE'RE GOING TO ANSWER SOME POLICY QUESTIONS TODAY, BUT I NEED TO ANNOTATE OR TO NOTE THAT THE DECISIONS THAT YOU MAKE TODAY, OR THE CONSENSUS THAT WE COME TO TODAY IS NOT A BINDING CONSENSUS. OKAY. UM, IT'S TO HELP ON A FEW FRONTS ON JUST GETTING POLICY PIECES TOGETHER. AND SO WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH, WE'RE GONNA ASK Y'ALL'S OPINIONS. WE'RE GONNA USE THE STICKY WALL TO REALLY BUILD UP TOWARDS SOME OF THESE POLICY DISCUSSIONS AND THAT WILL HELP FACILITATE A, UH, A BUDGET DOCUMENT, UM, THAT Y'ALL ALREADY HAVE IN YOUR HANDS. UM, BUT IT COULD LEAD TO MODIFICATIONS WITHIN THE BUDGET DOCUMENT FOR TOMORROW'S CONVERSATION. IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE'RE JUST GONNA TALK, UH, A FEW THINGS ABOUT, UM, HOW Y'ALL FEEL ABOUT THE TAX RATE, UH, DEBT AND CASH ISSUANCES AND SO ON AND SO ON. THAT DUE ULTIMATELY IMPACT THE, UH, THE BUDGET DOCUMENT BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT IN AN EFFORT TO BUY A LITTLE TIME BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE THAT, UH, FOR MS. GRAHAM TO BE HERE. UH, BEFORE WE JUMP INTO THE STICKY WALL, I'M TRYING TO WANT TO ADDRESS SOME QUESTIONS THAT POPPED UP AT THE LAST MEETING. UH, AND REALLY, LIKE I SAID, IT'S TO BY TIME RIGHT NOW. AND SO I JUST KIND OF WANT TO ANSWER SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS AND ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. UH, BEFORE WE JUMP INTO ACTUALLY BEING INVOLVED OR INTERACTIVE WITH, UH, SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS, I HAVE A LIST. UM, ONE QUESTION WAS, HISTORICALLY HAVE SALES TAX PROJECTIONS FALLEN SHORT? IF SO, HOW DO WE COVER IT? I WILL TELL YOU OVERALL SALES TAX PROJECTIONS HAVE NOT, UM, BEEN SHORT. LET'S SEE THE WRONG ONE. I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH PHONE I'M ON HERE. UM, THEY HAVE BEEN RISING, UH, SINCE 2004. DATA THAT WE HAVE FROM THE TEXAS COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE. THEY HAVE RISEN FROM 7 MILLION BACK IN 2004 UP TO AROUND 26 MILLION, UH, LAST YEAR. AND THIS YEAR WE HAVE NOT REALLY HAD A SHORTFALL, SO TO SPEAK. WE DID HAVE ONE UP AND DOWN, EXCUSE ME, ONE UP AND DOWN DURING 2018. UH, BUT THAT'S IT. SO OVERALL THE PROJECTIONS FOR THE SALES TAX HAVE BEEN RIGHT ON PAR. WE HAVEN'T BEEN SHORT IN THIS, BUT IT IS JUST A SUPPLEMENTAL PIECE THAT CONTINUES TO GROW, UM, FOR THE ORGANIZATION. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THAT WORKED PERFECTLY. YOU MISSED YOUR QUESTION MS. GRAHAM, BUT YOU CAN JUST THE HIGHLIGHT OF THAT ONE SINCE YOU ASKED IT. THE QUESTION WAS, UH, HAS SALES TAX FALLEN SHORT? UH, HAS SALES TAX PREDICTIONS FALLEN SHORT? IF SO, HOW DO WE RE UH, COVER IT? UH, NO, THEY HAVE NOT FALLEN SHORT. WE HAVE CONTINUED TO GROW AND OUR BUDGETING EXPECTATIONS FOR THE REVENUE HAS BEEN MET WITH THE, UH, THE SALES TAX THAT HAS COME IN. IT HAS GROWN SINCE 2004 AND IS SOMEWHAT PLATEAUING AT THIS POINT. SO IT'S BEEN GROWING FOR 20 YEARS AND SOMEWHAT PLATEAUING? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. CAN WE MAKE COMMENTS? DISCUSSION PRETTY, I'LL MAKE A COMMENT ON THAT ISSUE. IN 20 PLUS YEARS, I'VE BEEN HERE IN 19 WITH THE CITY EVERY YEAR FINANCE HAS ALWAYS COME FORTH AND DISCUSS SALES TAX ISSUES. AND EVERY YEAR THEY, THEY EMPHASIZE THE COUNCILS IN THE PAST. AND I THINK EVEN THIS COUNCIL HAS REQUESTED THAT WE STAY VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH THAT ESTIMATE AND THAT THAT SHOWS THAT THE FINANCE GROUP HAS DONE EXACTLY AS COUNCILS HAVE INDICATED IN THE PAST, IS TO STAY CONSERVATIVE WITH THAT GROWTH ESTIMATE. SO KUDOS TO THE FINANCE AND AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVEN'T OVER PROJECTED AS SOME CITIES HAVE DONE IN THE TWO THOUSANDS AND THEN COME UP SHORT WHEN IT DOESN'T MEET THAT. SO. RIGHT. SO THAT'S NOT JUST BY HAPPENSTANCE THAT THAT'S OCCURRED. THE COUNCILS IN THE PAST HAVE ALWAYS INDICATED THAT THEY WANTED TO BE VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH THAT SALES TAX ESTIMATE. RIGHT. [00:05:01] OKAY. OKAY. NEXT QUESTION AGAIN. WELL, OH, IF WE DON'T WANT TO PAUSE ON THE OR I'M JUST GONNA PAUSE ON THE QUESTIONS AND KIND OF GO THROUGH THE EXERCISE AND AT THE END OF THIRD DIFFERENT QUESTION. NO, WE'RE GOOD. OKAY. WE'RE GOOD. I WAS JUST TRYING TO BUY TIME UNTIL MRS. GRAHAM GOT HERE. OKAY. UM, OKAY. SO THE FIRST THING THAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS WE'RE GOING TO, THIS IS GONNA BE INTERACTIVE FOR US, Y'ALL. I AM GONNA REQUEST THAT Y'ALL GET UP AND, AND FILL OUT SOME PAPER AND PUT IT ON THE BOARD AND, UM, BECAUSE THIS WILL LEAD TO POLICY PIECES, IF YOU DON'T WANNA GET UP, YOU CAN WRITE IT DOWN. I WILL GLADLY TAKE IT FROM YOU AND PUT IT ON THE BOARD. IF Y'ALL WANT TO STAY SEATED, I CAN GET UP AND PUT THOSE ALL ON THE BOARD. SO I KNOW Y'ALL LOVE THIS. HUMOR ME PLEASE. ATHLETE. NOT THE ATHLETE I RAN THIS MORNING. LET ME DO THIS. GO WORK OUT IN THE PARKING LOT. I KNOW IT'S A HUNDRED. THERE WASN'T A PARKING SPOT LEFT. I HAD TO PARK ON THE, ON THIS SIDE OVER HERE. SO THE FIRST QUESTION IS GONNA BE ON THE TAX RATE. ALRIGHT. AND JUST TO SAVE TIME, BE HONEST TO GET UP. IF YOU WRITE IT ON YOUR PAPER, I'LL PUT IT UP HERE FOR YOU. . ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A SLIDING SCALE. IN YOUR IDEAL WORLD, PLEASE FORGET EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE ON THE BUDDY DOCUMENT RIGHT NOW IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE TAX RATE BETWEEN A SCALE OF 68 OR 70 OR EVEN BELOW 68, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO PUT THAT ON THERE. SO IF YOU CAN WRITE THAT ON YOUR PAPER, ON YOUR GREEN PAPER, I'LL COLLECT ALL THOSE AND PUT 'EM UP HERE FOR YOU IN THE NEXT, IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE SALES TAX LANDING? WHAT IS BASICALLY, WHAT IS YOUR ULTIMATE GOAL WITH THE, WITH THE SALES TAX OR THE TAX TO ME? SORRY. DO YOU WANT, ARE WE GONNA EXPLAIN OUR, LIKE WHATEVER NUMBER WE PUT? I'LL GET THERE IN A MINUTE. WE'LL JUST WONDER WHERE DO WE, I MEAN, I'M FINE WITH IT, BASICALLY THINK IT'S GONNA BE OR WE'D LIKE IT. WHERE'S YOUR IDEAL, WHERE'S THE IDEAL PLACE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE IT IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS? ZERO. IT'S GONNA HAVE SOME REALISM WITH IT. YES SIR. YEAH. OKAY. . 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST CUT IT OFF. THAT'S RIGHT. WHAT IS MY SUBJECT CALLING? I'M STILL ON GANDER TIME, SO I GOTTA TURN ALL THIS OFF. I'M SORRY. YOUR SON. NOPE, YOU'RE NOT PLAYING ALONG. SO, UH, MR. GRAHAM, ONE THING I DID SAY IS WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BUNCH OF CONSISTENCY ALONG SOME POLICY PIECES. OKAY. NONE OF THE, WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY IS BINDING AT ALL. IT DOES HELP US BUILD A POLICY PLATFORM IN THE FUTURE, BUT NOTHING TODAY IS BINDING. OKAY. THANK YOU. A STICKY, IT'S STICKY FOR MY CLASSROOM. WHAT DO YOU ONE, LIKE TO SHARE WHY YOU PICKED THE NUMBER THAT YOU PICKED? YEAH. YES, PLEASE. I PICKED THE LOWEST, WELL, BESIDES THE SENTENCE OVER THERE, I PICKED THE LOWEST NUMERICAL VALUE BECAUSE, UM, I WAS HOPING THAT WE WOULD GROW OTHER, THAT'S NOT ME , UH, THAT IT WOULD, THAT WE WOULD GROW OUR CITY AND OTHER THINGS SO THAT WE COULD STAY AT THE LOWEST POSSIBLE BASE FOR PEOPLE AS INDIVIDUALS, BUT MAKE MORE MONEY AS FAR AS, UM, EXPANDING BUSINESS AND, UM, OTHER THINGS GOING ON IN THE CITY. AWESOME. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND I'LL JUMP IN. I'LL PUT AS LOW AS REASONABLY POSSIBLE. I I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THAT BOTTOM NUMBER IS AND THERE MAY BE YEARS OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS THAT WE CAN'T REDUCE JUST BECAUSE WHAT IF OUR SALES TAX DOES DROP OFF? WHAT IF SOMETHING ELSE DOES HAPPEN? SO WE MAY ACTUALLY HAVE TO GO OUT AND RAISE TAXES IF NECESSARY, BUT EVERY YEAR WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO LOWER THAT TAX RATE TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY WITHIN REASON FOR OPERATIONS OF THE CITY. SO WHEREVER THAT HAPPENS TO BE, IT COULD BE LOWER THAN 68 OVER THE NEXT FIVE, I THINK WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO REACH THAT, BUT AS LOW AS REASONABLY POSSIBLE. OKAY. I PICKED 70. UM, I, I THINK TO ME IT, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE NOT JUST LOOK AT THE TAXES, BUT OTHER THINGS THAT WE CAN COME DOWN ON. UM, SO AS WE NOT DISTURB ANY OPERATIONAL, UM, COSTS. AND SO, UH, AND I KEEP SAYING IT, WE'RE NOT THE HIGHEST TAXING ENTITY AND IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO FALL ON US TO BE THE ONES TO LOWER THE TAXES. UM, AND SO I LIKE TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE TO LIKE KEEP IT AT A MEDIUM IN BETWEEN. UM, THAT'S NOT TO SAY I MAY NOT WANNA GO A LITTLE LOWER, BUT I WANNA KEEP IT AT 70 FOR NOW. OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE? YEAH, I PUT 70 AS WELL. I MEAN, YOU SAID REALISTIC, SO OBVIOUSLY I'D LOVE TO SAY ZERO, BUT WE GOTTA BE REALISTIC. SO I MEAN THAT WOULD BE A CENT PER YEAR OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING TO, TO SHOOT FOR. I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN GET THERE, BUT IT SEEMS MAYBE REALISTIC. YEAH, I PUT 70 AS WELL. I I FEEL LIKE ON THE OTHER SIDE [00:10:01] BE A LITTLE TOO AGGRESSIVE AND OVER FIVE YEARS THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE OF A REASONABLE, UM, DECREASE IN TAXES SERVICES GOTTA BE ACCOUNTED FOR. YEAH, I PUT 0.71 ACTUALLY ABOUT TWO REASONS, BUT SAME THING. I KNOW, I THINK EVERYBODY, THERE'S CERTAINLY A GENERAL CONSENSUS AND IT'S BEEN OUR KIND OF OUR POSSIBLY THE PAST FEW YEARS TO REDUCE THE TAX RATE, WHICH WE HAVE. I THINK THIS WOULD MAKE BE OUR SIX BUDGET OF SOME TYPE OF, UH, REDUCTION. UM, BUT I THINK LIKE WE WERE TOLD BEFORE, I'M GONNA SAY IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 2015 OR SO, WHERE BE CAUTIOUS. I MEAN IT, IT'S ALWAYS TEMPTING TO, TO GO LOWER THE TAX RATE, WHICH WE HAVE, BUT IF WE DIDN'T HAVE, I DON'T KNOW, A BILLION DOLLARS OR MORE IN, IN INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS AND CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT NEEDS, THEN, YOU KNOW, I'D BE WILLING TO GO AND DRIVE IT DOWN AS LOW AS WE CAN. BUT WE'RE A GROWING CITY. WE HAVE AGING INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAS TO BE CERTAINLY ADDRESSED. UH, GROWING CITY. WE'RE GONNA HAVE NEEDS OF MORE PERSONNEL AT SOME POINT. COULD BE FIRE POLICE, CMS, PUBLIC WORKS, EVERYBODY ELSE. SO RIGHT. I, MINE IS MORE JUST LIKE FROM A CAUTIONARY STANDPOINT, I AGREE 70 CENTS OR 0.68 OR LESS WOULD BE GREAT. UM, BUT, BUT THE NEED, UH, OR THE OUR NEEDS, WE DO HAVE NEEDS THAT ARE VERY REAL. AND SO THAT'S WHY I PUT 0.71 AND WHEN I CAME ON COUNCIL IN OH FIVE, I THINK WE WERE AT 0.72. SO I'D LIKE TO BE LOWER. I'D LIKE TO, UM, AT SOME POINT WHEN I LEAVE COUNSEL, I'D LIKE TO HAVE A LOWER TAX RATE THAN WHAT I STARTED WITH IN 2005. OKAY. I'M GONNA DRAW, EVERYBODY THAT WORKS HERE KNOWS I LIKE TO DRAW. UM, UH, THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE TALKING AT YOU, IT'S TO HELP SPUR CONVERSATION. SO I DON'T WANT THIS TO FEEL EDUCATION WISE, BUT I DO WANT TO PASS ON SOME THINGS THAT MAY BE IMPORTANT TO HELP WITH POLICY DISCUSSION WHEN IT COMES TO THE TAX RATE. SO THEORETICALLY, WELL LEMME START WITH THIS. IN ITS GENERALIST FORM, THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE, RIGHT? THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE, IT GOES DOWN. SO THE TAX RATE GOES DOWN WHEN PROPERTY VALUES GO UP AND VICE VERSA. ON SIMPLISTIC, ON A SIMPLISTIC LEVEL, IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE VOTER APPROVAL RATE IS 3.5% BECAUSE OF SENATE BILL TWO. RIGHT. BUT THE SENATE, BUT THE VOTER APPROVAL RATE IS THE NO NEW REVENUE, MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION ONLY TIMES THREE AND A HALF. OKAY. UM, OR PLUS THREE AND A HALF PLUS THREE PLUS THREE AND A HALF PERCENT, RIGHT? PLUS THREE AND HALF PERCENT TIMES ONE, 1.035 BASICALLY. YEAH. UM, AND SO THE IMPORTANT PIECE TO, TO NOTE ABOUT THE MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION, OUR TAX RATE CURRENTLY IS 75, RIGHT? WELL THAT 75 IS BROKEN UP INTO TWO DIFFERENT PIECES. THE MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION AND THE DEBT SERVICE. AND SO IF OUR NO NEW REVENUE RATE IS ROUGHLY 46 CENTS, RIGHT? WE TIMES THAT BY 1.035 AND IT GIVES US WHATEVER OUR MAINTENANCE OPERATION IS. AND THEN YOU ADD IN THE DEBT SERVICE PLUS THE INS, WHICH IS ROUGHLY 0.28 CENTS. OKAY? AND THE OTHER PIECES THAT GO PAST IT OR WHAT EQUALS SEVEN FIVE, WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT? WELL, THEORETICALLY, IF OUR TAX RATE IS HERE AND IT'S STABLE FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, 10 YEARS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, REMEMBER IT HAS TWO PIECES. THE M AND O AND I-N-S-I-N-S, OKAY? FROM OUR CONVERSATIONS, FROM OUR CONVERSATIONS, THERE'S SOMEWHAT OF A, WE WOULD LIKE TO USE LESS DEBT. AND SO OUR INS RATE HAS BEEN GOING DOWN FOR THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS. OKAY? SO IT GOES DOWN TO ZERO, OKAY? AGAIN, THE MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION RATE, THE MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION RATE IS WHAT MAKES UP OR WHAT PAYS FOR ALL OF OUR GENERAL FUND STUFF. THAT THAT IS WHAT IS IN THE JOURNAL FUND BUDGET. THIS PIECE RIGHT HERE AS THE INS DECREASES, RIGHT? IT FREES UP MORE MONEY HERE, RIGHT? IN THIS GAP THERE'S MORE MONEY THAT STARTS COMING IN. WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING AS AN ORGANIZATION [00:15:02] IS ANYTIME THAT EXTRA MONEY IS COMING IN FROM THIS PIECE, IT'S ABSORBED INTO THE MAINTENANCE OPERATION PIECE. OKAY? SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE MORE MONEY BECAUSE TECHNICALLY WE DO, BUT WE'RE SACRIFICING OUR DEBT SERVICE BY BUILDING UP OUR MAINTENANCE OPERATION PIECE. OKAY? WHY IS THIS SIGNIFICANT? AS WE MOVE INTO, UM, DETERMINING OTHER POLICIES ON CO DEBTS OR GEO DEBTS OR CASH FUNDING INFRASTRUCTURE, IF WE WERE TO CASH FUND EVERYTHING, THERE HAS TO BE A POLICY DECISION THAT ANYTHING ABOVE NORMAL MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION IS ONLY GOING TO BE SAVED FOR INFRASTRUCTURE INSTEAD OF DEBT. OKAY? BECAUSE IF WE DON'T HAVE, IF WE START USING ALL THIS CASH AND WE WANT TO CASH FUND THINGS MORE, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY BECAUSE WE'RE USING ALL THE CASH AT THIS POINT. AND SO, AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, IF WE WERE EVER TO NEED TO GO OUT TO ISSUE DEBT AND WE'VE USED UP THE CASH, OUR TAX RATE IS NO LONGER 75. IT'S GONNA BE 76, 7, 7 8, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE TO SUPPORT THE ADDITIONAL DEBT. THE OTHER COMPOUNDING FACTOR, THIS IS PERFECT IN, IN, IN THEORY, RIGHT? BUT THE OTHER COMPOUNDING FACTOR IS THAT WE CONTINUE TO DECREASE OUR DEBT RATE TOO. AND SO YOU'RE PUSHING EVERYTHING ELSE DOWN. YOU MEAN THE TAX RATE, BUT YEAH. OH, SORRY. THE TAX RATE. YOU'RE PUSHING EVERYTHING ELSE DOWN WHEN YOU DO THAT. AND SO, AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO PREACH AT Y'ALL. THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE, UH, A COLLEGE LECTURE. IT'S JUST MEANT TO BE LIKE THE, THE IMPLICATIONS OF DECISIONS THAT WE MAKE ON THE POLICY PIECE AND WHERE THEY PLAY INTO, INTO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DECIDING. AND SO ARE THE QUESTIONS ON THIS? NO, BUT I HAVE A COMMENT. YOU, YOUR GRAPHED UP THERE IS PRETTY GOOD, BUT THAT DELTA, AS YOU SAID, THAT'S WHERE THE CASH GOES, IS THE ABILITY TO LOWER THAT 75 CENTS AND MAINTAIN YOUR M AND O WHERE IT IS. THAT'S CORRECT. THAT THAT'S WHERE IT IS. YOU JUST DON'T HAVE ADDITIONAL REVENUE TO PUT BACK IN. SO THIS GAP RIGHT HERE AS IT'S GOING DOWN MEETS THIS GAP HERE. THAT'S CORRECT. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS WITHIN REASON TO PULL THIS DOWN BY LOWERING THIS NOW AT A POINT WHEN WE GOTTA GO OUT FOR BONDS AND STUFF TO DO HEAVY INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS OR WHATEVER, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DECIDE IF WE DON'T HAVE CASH. THAT'S CORRECT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THE DELTA COMES IN. I THINK ALSO IT'S THE ONLY ISSUE I HAVE, I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF US, WE DO WANT TO TRY TO CASH FUND SAVE ON THE INTEREST AND SO ON. I THINK THERE'S A FEW THINGS WITH THAT. WHEN YOU HAVE LARGE SCALE, LIKE I'LL USE GARROW AS AN EXAMPLE, THAT'S, THAT'S A HARD, THAT'S A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS PLUS LET'S SAY MAYBE EVEN $200 MILLION IF WE DO IT, IT'S DO IT IN, ITS IN ENTIRETY HOW YOU CAN'T CASH FUND THAT, RIGHT? SO, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S A BALANCE. IT CAN'T ALWAYS BE CASH FUNDED. THERE'S CERTAIN PROJECTS THAT CAN BE CASH FUNDED AND THEN THERE'S CERTAIN PROJECTS THAT CAN'T, UH, CAN'T, YOU KNOW, UH, CERTAINLY WHEN WE GO AND LIKE THE PUBLIC SAFETY ADMIN BUILDING THAT WAS ABLE TO BE CASH FUNDED BECAUSE IT WAS ADVANCED FUNDED THROUGH, YOU KNOW, UH, AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. SO IN THE SENSE IT WAS CASH FUNDED, I THINK IT WAS LIKE $13 MILLION SAVED IN INTEREST. AND THAT'S ATTRACTIVE TO US FROM A FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY STANDPOINT. BUT AS YOU SAY, THERE'S IMPLICATIONS BY US CONTINUING TO LOWER THE TAX RATE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO. 'CAUSE WE, WE BELIEVE THAT IT'S FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE. RIGHT. BUT IS IT LONG TERM IS, IS I THINK WHAT YOU'RE, IS WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE US AWARE? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP WAS HOW DOES IT TRULY IMPACT THE RESIDENTS ON A TAX RATE CHANGE? RIGHT? I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS FROM THURSDAY. YOU KNOW, ONE THING I WANT, I WANNA MAKE SURE TO EVERYBODY KIND OF UNDERSTAND THAT GRAPHIC FOR THE MOST PART. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. CURRENT RATE 75, I AM JUST USING A NUMBER. NO, 300, $300,000 HOME. 75 CENTS THE TAX BILL ON A $300,000 HOME JUST FOR THE CITY OF BAYTOWN. SOMEBODY CAN DOUBLE CHECK ME OR WHOEVER WANTS TO, I THINK IT'S AROUND 2257, SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. SO IF YOU WANNA DO IT IN YOUR, ON YOUR CALCULATOR IS 300,000 TIMES 0.75 DIVIDED BY A HUNDRED. UM, I THINK IT'S UH, 2257. SO MOST HOMES [00:20:01] 2250. HUH? 2250. 2250. OH, I'M SORRY. 2250. THANK YOU. VICTOR . UM, MOST HOMES ARE RISING 10%. MM-HMM . OKAY. SO IF IT INCREASES 330,000 AND YOU KEEP THE SAME RATE, I WANNA SAY IT'S LIKE 24 SOMETHING. OKAY? YOU KEEP IT AT 75, IT'S AT 24 70 SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW, SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. SO THEY HAVE IT, THEY'RE PAYING MORE TAXES, CORRECT? YES. WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO BE TO GET BELOW 2200 AT THAT? SO THEY'RE PAYING LESS TAXES. 68 CENTS. SO IT'S A DRASTIC DECREASE IN THE TAX RATE FOR A HOMEOWNER TO PAY LESS IN PROPERTY TAXES IF THEY WANT TO LOWER THE TAX BURDEN FOR THE HOMEOWNER WITH THEIR HOME GROWTH. WE CAN'T CONTROL THIS AT ALL. WE HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT THIS IS. OKAY. THAT THAT IS ON HARRIS COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT. THAT AND CHAMBERS COUNTY APPRAISALS DISTRICT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO ANYBODY? RIGHT HERE? SOMEBODY GOT A LOWER TAX BILL. THAT'S RIGHT. NOT EVERYBODY, SOMEBODY GOT A LOWER TAX BILL, BUT NOT EVERYBODY, BUT NOT EVERYBODY. MM-HMM . AND SO, WHILE WE DO INCREMENTAL ADJUSTMENTS, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT FOR ANYBODY THAT RAISED THEIR VALUE OR STAYED THE SAME, IT MOST LIKELY DIDN'T IMPACT THEM AT ALL. OR, OR VERY NOMINAL OR SOMEBODY THAT LOST VALUE ON THEIR HOME, THEY'RE GONNA PAY LESS. OKAY? IF THEY, BUT THEY HAD TO LOSE VALUE ON THEIR HOME. AND SO THAT'S IMPACTFUL, RIGHT? JUST BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT LOWERING THE TAX RATE REALLY HELPS IS THE PEOPLE THAT LOST VALUE ON THEIR HOME. IN A VERY GENERAL SENSE, IN A VERY SIMPLISTIC SENSE. I'M NOT, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY THAT'S TRUE IN ALL CASES. OKAY? SO I DON'T WANT TO BE MISQUOTED SOMEWHERE. UM, BUT IN A VERY GENERAL SENSE, JUST LOOKING AT IT, THAT'S WHERE IT COMES FROM. DOES THAT ANSWER THAT QUESTION? 'CAUSE THAT WAS ONE THAT WAS RAISED. MM-HMM . OKAY. SO WITH THAT, I WILL STOP WHEN THE TAX RATE, I'LL MOVE TO ANOTHER QUESTION THAT Y'ALL GET TO PLAY A GAMER. YES. I'M JUST KIDDING. THERE'S NO GAME , I'M NOT GONNA MAKE THIS FUN FOR Y'ALL. COME ON . JUST KIDDING. JACOB AND I WERE READY. WHAT'S THAT? JACOB AND I WERE READY. I HAD MY GREEN SHEET. PAPER RACE, 70 DAYS RESERVES. THAT'S A QUESTION. HOW MANY DAYS? OKAY. NO TARGET. 70 GRAND UP AT 90. ALRIGHT. WHICH IS WHERE WE WANT TO BE. SAME THING THING. WE'RE GONNA DO THE SAME THING BUT WITH RESERVES, MR. OKAY. WE'RE CALLING IT RESERVES INSTEAD OF THE FUND BALANCE OR THE ENDING FUND BALANCE. WHEN WE SAY FUND BALANCE, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S EXTRA MONEY TO BE PULLING FROM. OKAY. SO WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THAT TO RESERVES. YEP. SO IDEALLY ON A SCALE OF 60, I'M SETTING THE MINIMUM AT 60 OR, OR THE RESERVES UP TO 90 PLUS. WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE ON A SCALE FROM 60 TO 90 DAYS OF RESERVE? 60 IS THE BENCHMARK STANDARD FOR, UM, THE MINIMUM STANDARD, UH, BY GFOA. Y'ALL PUT VALUES. I DID. HE DID. WELL, BECAUSE THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT WAYS TO, TO LOOK AT IT. YES. YEAH. SO Y'ALL SEE WHERE I PUT 1690 UP HERE, RIGHT? YES. YES. VERY CLEAR. ALRIGHT, I SEE IT ONE HERE. YEAH. MARKER. THAT WAS YOU. WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO EXPLAIN 90 DAYS? I I'LL EXPLAIN MY YEAR END AT 90. YES SIR. I WOULD LOVE IT. JUST LIKE, I JUST LIKE, WE, WE TARGETED THIS YEAR WE SAID 70 AND WE'RE ON PROJECTED TO BE ABOUT 90 DAYS. 90 DAYS HELPS OUR INTEREST RATES WHEN WE GO OUT FOR THE BIG LOANS, IT PROVIDES A MORE STABLE ENVIRONMENT, SO FORTH AND SO ON. BUT WHEN WE SET IT AT 90 AS THE DAYS WE'RE ENDING UP AT A HUNDRED TWENTY, A HUNDRED THIRTY, A HUNDRED FORTY, AND THAT'S JUST CASH [00:25:01] SITTING OUT THERE THAT WE COULD UTILIZE ELSEWHERE IN OPERATIONS. SO THAT'S WHY I SAID END OF YEAR TARGET TO BE 90. HISTORICALLY THAT TYPICALLY WE ARE ABOUT 20 TO 30 DAYS MINIMUM ABOVE WHAT WE TARGET. OKAY. SO THAT'S 70, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THAT GOES. BUT THAT ONE 20 WAS NOT ALWAYS THAT. I MEAN, WE, WE DID, WE HAD A LOT OF PERSONNEL THAT WASN'T, UM, IN PLACE MM-HMM . AND THEN OF COURSE COVID AND ALL OF THAT. SO I, I DON'T FEEL THAT IT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE THAT ONE 20. UM, I WOULD'VE LIKED TO HAVE BEEN ALWAYS AT 90, BUT I THINK 75 FOR ME IS THE MAGIC NUMBER AND NOT GOING ANY LESS THAN THAT. OKAY. WE DON'T ALL HAVE TO GO OVER IT, BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TALK, PLEASE FEEL FREE. WELL, I SAID 75, I MEAN IF, IF SIXTIES ARE MINIMUM, I MEAN THAT GIVES US SOME, SOME WIGGLE ROOM THERE IF SOMETHING UNFORESEEN COMES UP. OKAY. AND WE, WE'VE HAD MAJOR EVENTS HERE, THE HURRICANES AND SO FORTH MM-HMM . AND WE'VE BURNED DOWN SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 30 AND 40 DAYS OF RESERVES. SO EVEN SETTING IT AT 75, WE STILL HAVE HAD FLEXED. RIGHT. BUT AGAIN, IF YOU SET IT AT 75 AND THROUGH OPERATIONS AT THE END OF THE YEAR, WE'RE AT 120, 130 MM-HMM . THAT'S EXORBITANT. SO WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT, AGAIN, THE PROJECTIONS OVER THE, AND YOU GO BACK TO 2000 OR 1999 WHEN I CAME HERE, THE CITY HAS ALWAYS ENDED UP 30, 40 DAYS ABOVE WHAT THEY TARGET. WHAT DOES ANYBODY KNOW, UM, WHEN THE MOST AMOUNT OF OUR RESERVES WAS USED UP? I'D LIKE TO KNOW PROBABLY DURING THE HURRICANES, BUT WE BURNED IT UP. BUT, BUT WE NEVER BURNED IT DOWN TO ZERO. NO. IS IT IKE? YEAH. AND, AND HURRICANES. SO, WELL FIRST I'LL SAY 75 IS PROBABLY A GREAT SWEET SPOT. I MEAN AS FAR AS THE VALUE, UM, IT'S ALWAYS GREAT TO HIT THE 90 DAYS AT THE END, BUT, BUT AS FROM A BUDGETARY STANDPOINT, I WOULD SAY 75 I WOULD AGREE WITH. UM, AND THEN JUST AS, AS YOU KINDA MENTIONED, UM, LIKE I THINK FOR IKE WE HAD AN EMERGENCY MEETING, YOU KNOW, RIGHT AFTER THE STORM MM-HMM . I THINK WE HAD TO ALLOCATE LIKE 7 MILLION IMMEDIATELY TO OUT OF OUT RESERVE. THAT WAS TO GO AND START, YOU KNOW, DEBRIS PICK UP ALL THE STUFF THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE. NOW SOME, MOST OF THAT'S GONNA GET REIMBURSED BACK, BUT YOU GOTTA HAVE IT ON HAND BECAUSE YOU GOTTA PAY CONTRACTORS AND OTHER STUFF. SO THAT'S WHERE IT'S HEALTHY AND THERE'S PROS AND CONS AS FAR AS GOING TOO LOW AND GOING TOO HIGH, UH, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES GOING AND END UP 150 DAYS, THAT MEANS YOU'RE NOT MANAGING YOUR MONEY STILL. RIGHT? RIGHT. SO, OR AS LAURA INDICATED, THERE'S BEEN SOME EX EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES THROUGHOUT THE YEAR FOR PERSONNEL LOSSES OR WHATEVER. THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THAT SAVINGS COMES IN. BUT YOU CAN WELL ESTIMATE FOR THAT. AND THERE'S A LOT, I MEAN, I REMEMBER THERE WAS FOR A WHILE WE WERE ALWAYS ADDING BECAUSE WE THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT, ADD MORE HEAD COUNT TO LET'S JUST SAY PUBLIC SAFETY AND YOU DO THAT AND THEY CAN'T FILL IT. RIGHT. SO THERE WAS ALWAYS THAT 30 OR 40 DAY PLUS AT THE END. WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE AND THAT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD THING. IN, IN, IN SOME WAYS WE HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT, THAT THAT 30 OR 40 DAY ADDITION AFTER, AFTER OUR TARGET, IT MAY NOT BE AS WIDE AS THAT MOVING FORWARD. RIGHT. IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE FULLY STAFFED, UM, AND WE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, WE'RE ALWAYS GONNA HAVE SOME OPENINGS, BUT RIGHT. BUT, UH, LOTS OF TIMES WE, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF, MAJORITY OF IT WAS THE VACANCIES, THE BUDGET BUDGETED VACANCIES, I GUESS. WELL, AND THAT'S, WE TARGETED 70 DAYS THIS YEAR ABOUT APPROXIMATELY WHERE ARE WE TODAY? 97. I MEAN, SO WHERE I THOUGHT WE WERE AT 72 OR SOMETHING. YEAH. FOR FFY 24, THE NUMBER OH FOR 24 IS 1 72. CURRENTLY AT 97 AND WE SET IT AT 70. AND THAT'S, THAT'S ASSUMING NOTHING ELSE CHANGES BETWEEN NOW I, I UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND. YOU KNOW, WE GOT TWO, FOUR MONTHS AGO, TWO, TWO AND A HALF MONTHS AGO. WE'RE ALREADY ALMOST 30 DAYS ABOVE WHAT THE TARGET WAS. AND THAT'S MY POINT. IF WE LOOK AT END OF YEAR TO BE SOMEWHERE AROUND 90, THAT MEANS WE BACK IT UP. IT'S GONNA BE SOMEWHERE AROUND 70, 75 IS THE TARGET KNOWING THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE EXTRA GROWTH AT THE END. YEAH, I PUT 90, BUT I, I LIKE THE POINT OF VIEW THAT YOU MADE THE END YEAR. I'LL TELL YOU THAT 90 SITS BETTER WITH THE BOND RATING AGENCIES. YEP. OKAY. NOW, IF YOU DEVELOP A POLICY THAT OUR GOAL IS ALWAYS 90, BUT BECAUSE OF HOW WE MANAGE THINGS, WE'RE SHOOTING FOR 75 BECAUSE WE TYPICALLY END UP OVER 90. THE THING THAT I WILL TELL YOU IS THAT WE ARE WORKING SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT LARGE DELTA THAT YOU HAVE ANYMORE, WHICH CHANGES THIS DYNAMIC A LITTLE BIT MM-HMM . BUT IF THE WORKING POLICY UNTIL THAT GOES INTO PLACE IS THAT, HEY, WE'RE AT 75 BECAUSE WE END UP HIGHER THAN THIS. MM-HMM . BUT ULTIMATELY ONCE WE START COMPRESSING OUR, OUR BUDGET TO OUR SPEND AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT LARGE DELTA THAT'S CONTRIBUTING TO THIS ANYMORE, THEN WE'RE WORKING UP TOWARDS THIS 90 DAYS AND THAT'S WHERE WE SHOULD BE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE SAY YEAR END AT 90. SO ONLY QUICK QUESTION, JUST SO WE KNOW. SO, UH, [00:30:01] THE VALUE OF ONE, ONE OF THESE DAYS, WHAT IS THAT? DO WE HAVE 330 SESSION? OKAY, THAT WAY COUNSEL WILL KNOW. SO 300. SO EVERY DAY IS WORTH 330,000. SO THIS MAY BE TAKING IT IN A WHOLE NOTHER DIRECTION, BUT WHAT IS THE NEGATIVE IMPACT IF WE START BEING UBER CONSERVATIVE AND BUILDING THESE POLICIES, UM, THAT WE'RE HEARING REPEATED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WHAT WOULD BE THE NEGATIVE IMPACT TO DEPARTMENTS AND THE WAY THINGS ARE RAN IF WE'RE LIKE THE GRAPH THAT YOU BUILT MM-HMM . IF WE GO IN THAT DIRECTION. SO IT'S GONNA BE, UM, IT'S GONNA BE VERY METHODICAL AND INTENTIONAL WITH ANYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING. AND GROWTH IS GONNA BE, UM, GROWTH IS GONNA STAY ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT PROPERTY TAX GROWTH IS. AND RIGHT NOW FOR THE BUDGET THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU, IT'S 2.3%. AND SO THAT MEANS OUR ORGANIZATION WOULD'VE TO GROW BY 2.3% ONLY GOING FORWARD. AND, AND WOULD THERE BE A NEGATIVE IMPACT TO CITIZENS? I KNOW THAT WHEN WE'RE DOING MATH AND WE'RE ON PAPER AND WE'RE BUILDING CHARTS LONG TERM, WE'RE LOOKING AT LONG TERM. I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT SHORT TERM, WOULD THERE BE A NEGATIVE, UM, IMPACT TO WHETHER IT'S SOME OF THE EMPLOYEES WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE SAYING KEEPING THE GROWTH AT 2.3%? RIGHT. SO I, I DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT 'CAUSE I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THAT. OKAY. IN JUST A SECOND, BUT I'LL COME BACK TO IT. CAN Y'ALL REMIND ME TO COME BACK TO IT? YES, BUT I DON'T WANT, I DON'T WANT TO ANSWER IT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT IMPACTS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS I HAVE. OKAY. YES SIR. OKAY. THANK Y'ALL FOR THIS. ALRIGHT, AS I'M PREPARING FOR THE NEXT ONE, IT'S ON FINANCING AND IT IS HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO HANDLE DEBT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE MORE CASH FOCUSED? SORRY, WITH INFRASTRUCTURE, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO HANDLE INFRASTRUCTURE? WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE MORE CASH FOCUSED OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE MORE DEBT FOCUSED? IN THE MIDDLE? IS A HYBRID YOUR RIGHT? NOW, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS INFRASTRUCTURE STRICTLY WITH CASH? WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS INFRASTRUCTURE STRICTLY WITH DEBT OR SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE ALREADY? WE HAVE TO PICK, I MEAN WE HAVE TO PICK ONE OF THEM OR WE CAN SAY YOU CAN PUT HYBRID IF YOU WANT TO HYBRID. I THINK WE HAVE TO DO A HYBRID. THAT FELT LIKE A TRICK QUESTION BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GONNA DEPEND ON WHAT WE'RE, DO WHAT WE'RE DOING. I WOULD AGREE. I MEAN I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. YEAH, I WOULD. OKAY. LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. OKAY. WELL IT GOES BACK TO WHAT THE MAYOR WAS SAYING EARLIER. THERE'S GONNA BE SOME SITUATIONS WHERE, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF AN EXAMPLE IN MY HEAD, YOU KNOW, THE ANALOGIES, BUT I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S GOING TO COME A TIME WHERE IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A HYBRID. OKAY. THE PERSON THAT PUT CASH, THEY WANNA SPEAK ON WHY THEY PUT CASH BECAUSE IN IN THAT PERSON'S PHILOSOPHICAL MIND, I PUT CASH VIEW THAT THIS MAY JUST NOT BE AN OPTION. IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT OR NO? I MEAN, I WOULD PREFER CASH TO FIND INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS. I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN GET THERE WITH, WITH THE CHART YOU DREW AS WE DRIVE DOWN, YOU KNOW, THE AMOUNT OF TAX RATE WE'RE USING TO PAY OFF DEBT THAT'S GONNA FREE UP CASH TO DO THESE PROJECTS. AND WHEN I LOOK OVER THE BUDGET OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, WE'VE SPENT UPWARDS OF 20 MILLION A YEAR ON, ON DEBT SERVICES. AND IF THAT WAS NO LONGER THERE, UH, I THINK THAT'S A BIG CHUNK OF CASH WE CAN DO SOME PROJECTS WITH. OKAY. AND MRS. GRAHAM, UM, I FULLY UNDERSTAND FROM YOU AND THE MAYOR BOTH THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE A TRICK QUESTION. I'M NOT MEANING IT TO BE A TRICK QUESTION. I DON'T, IT'S A TRICK QUESTION. I JUST KNOW THERE ARE PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCES WHEN IT COMES TO CASH AND DEBT AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE TALK ABOUT THIS AS A GROUP AND IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE A TRICK QUESTION AT ALL. WELL, AND, AND I'LL JUMP IN THERE TO HELP WITH THAT, BUT IF IT'S JUST A STANDARD PROJECT, LET'S TAKE PUBLIC WORK INFRASTRUCTURE, JUST A STANDARD PROJECT THAT'S THREE OR $4 MILLION THAT'S MORE OF A CASH FUND. IF IT'S, WE'RE GONNA GO OUT AND BUILD A 15 TO $20 MILLION WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT OR WATER TREATMENT PLANT, THAT'S A LONG TERM DEBT. SO WE CAN'T JUST SAY WE'RE GONNA FUND EVERYTHING IN CASH, BUT IF IT'S MORE OF THE DAILY OPERATIONS OR WHATEVER, OR IF IT'S A, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE'RE DOING A $32 MILLION STORMWATER PROJECT, BUT WE ARE ALSO CHARGING STORMWATER FEES, WE'RE BUILDING UP A CASH RESERVE TO PUT TOWARDS THAT. THAT'S MORE OF A CASH FUND. BUT AGAIN, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT HARD INFRASTRUCTURE, THAT'S GONNA BE A 20 TO 30 YEAR PIECE OF INFRASTRUCTURE DEBT MAKES A LITTLE BIT MORE SENSE. IF IT'S JUST, WELL WE'RE REPLACING TWO MILES, A 36 INCH [00:35:01] PIPE WITH VALVES ON IT, THAT'S A FOUR OR $5 MILLION PROJECT THAT MAKES MORE SENSE TO BE CASH. YEAH. I MEAN IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT THE PROJECT IS. YEAH, MIKE TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. I TOLD YOU, I MEAN THAT'S, I MEAN WE DO WHAT, $5 MILLION RIGHT NOW A YEAR JUST ON STREETS, RIGHT? STREETS RECONSTRUCTION OR WHATEVER THE CASE IS, CASH, IS THAT CORRECT? I SOMEWHERE RIGHT OR WRONG, THERE'S NO CASH IN THE 24 BUDGET GOING TO OKAY. BUT OKAY, FINANCE $5 MILLION ROADS WITH DEBT ALSO. YEAH. SO, SO MY MY MY ONLY COMMENT WOULD BE IT DOES, DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF PROJECT OBVIOUSLY AND THE LONGEVITY OF IT, BUT WE DO FUND CASH OR WE HAVE IN THE PAST ON CERTAIN PROJECTS. BUT OTHER THINGS IT'S JUST, IT WOULD BE TOO MUCH. I MEAN, UH, ROADS, I MEAN LET'S JUST SAY THE RESIDENTIAL ROADS THAT THAT WE DO, YOU CAN GET A LOT MORE ROAD DONE IN, IN A SENSE BY VOLUME, UH, WITH A LARGER CONTRACT TO GO AND GET MORE ROADS DONE AT A BETTER PRICE. RIGHT. SO YOUR MONEY GOES A A LOT LONGER AWAY THAN IF YOU SAY WE'RE JUST GONNA DO $2 MILLION A ROAD CASH FUND EVERY YEAR. WE WON'T EVER CATCH UP WITH OUR, OUR ROADWAY INFRASTRUCTURE AT THAT, AT THAT RATE. SO THAT'S WHY I THINK IT HAS TO BE A HYBRID. OBVIOUSLY LARGE SCALE PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, POLICE, LIKE AN EXAMPLE WOULD BE A LARGE SCALE FACILITY, A NEW LIBRARY, A NEW YOUTH CENTER, SENIOR CENTER, PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO BE CASH FUNDED. WE COULD SAVE FOR IT, BUT THAT MAY TAKE SIX OR SEVEN YEARS. RIGHT. SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS DON'T WANNA WAIT THAT LONG. SO THOSE, THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THAT HAD TO HAPPEN. THAT WOULD BE, AND THAT'S THE REASON MIGHT NOT BE INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT'S THE REASON I WROTE. YEAH. I WAS THINKING ABOUT LONG SCALE PROJECTS AND RIGHT. AND THE UM, YEAH. GETTING THEM DONE, UH, IN A TIMELY MANNER. RIGHT. AND, AND I THINK THERE'S A BANDWIDTH, THERE'S A BANDWIDTH IN CONSTRUCTION, THERE'S A BANDWIDTH IN WHAT OUR STAFF CAN EVEN MANAGE AND, AND I GUESS PROJECT MANAGE SO THAT, THAT'S ANOTHER FACTOR. I MEAN WE COULD DEVELOP THE POLICY TO OVERSEE WHAT TYPES OF PROJECTS WE WANT TO ISSUE DEAD. AND I MEAN WE COULD EVEN SET A NUMERICAL VALUE TO THAT. I MEAN YOU'RE THROWING OUT THE WORD BANDWIDTH WE CAN ESTABLISH THAT'S RIGHT. POLICY MAKERS, WE KNOW WE CAN DO, I BELIEVE WE KNOW WE CAN DO SO MUCH WHEN IT COMES TO INFRASTRUCTURE SO MUCH. YOU KNOW, IF IT'S WASTEWATER, FRESH WATER, ROADWAY, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, THERE IS A BANDWIDTH TO IT. RIGHT? RIGHT. AND, AND SO THERE'S A FINANCIAL BANDWIDTH, THERE'S A PROJECT MANAGEMENT BANDWIDTH, THERE'S A CONTRACTED BANDWIDTH. I THINK LAST YEAR WE HAD TO TAKE A PAUSE, WE HAD TO TAKE A PAUSE TO CATCH UP AND JUST SAY, WHERE ARE WE REALLY AT? BECAUSE YOU CAN BUDGET, YOU CAN PLAN, BUT REALITY WHAT DOESN'T HAPPEN ON THE GROUND THEN YOU BACK UP. RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE BLUEPRINT SYSTEM ON THE SHELF. SO THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS IS THAT IF Y'ALL REMEMBER THE TAX RATE PIECE AND LIKE THE 24 BUDGET THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU, THERE'S NO CASH GOING TO INFRASTRUCTURE AT ALL, WHICH IS FORCING IT TO BE DEBT. THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT MOVES DOWN THE ROAD FOR THE NEXT FIVE TO 10 YEARS WITH THAT, WITH THOSE SAME PARAMETERS. ARE Y'ALL OKAY IF IT'S JUST DEBT FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS? NO. TALKING ABOUT FOR THE CIP YEAH. RIGHT. THERE'S SOME THINGS IN THERE IN CIP THAT SHOULD NOT BE DEBT RELATED. WELL, BUT THAT'S, I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THERE'S NO CASH AVAILABLE TO DO ANYTHING IN THE CIP SO THEREFORE EVERYTHING HAS TO BE DEBT. I GOT IT. WHICH MEANS THAT THOSE PROJECTS THAT SHOULDN'T BE IN DEBT AREN'T GONNA GET FUNDED. YES SIR. UH, YOU KNOW, WHY TAKE A 30 YEAR DEBT ON SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA LAST FIVE YEARS? RIGHT. YOU GET OPPOSITE OF THAT. YOU GET UNDERNEATH THAT BELL CURVE REAL QUICK. YEP. IS THAT WHERE FINANCING WOULD COME IN IF THERE ARE SOME PROJECTS THAT NEED TO BE DONE? OH, THAT'S JUST THE TITLE. SO, SO I, CAN I BE CLEAR? YOU ALREADY HAVE POLICY. I WAS LIKE WHAT WE FINANCE WHERE YOU ARE PROHIBITED FROM FUNDING SHORT TERM PROJECTS FROM DEBT, ALL DEBT MUST MEET THE LIFESPAN OF AN ASSET OR LESS. SO DEBT MUST ONLY GO THAT MAXIMUM PERIOD. I WAS GONNA ASK WHAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD, I MEAN HE'S THE EXAMPLE OF FIVE YEARS. WHAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE GONE INTO DEBT FOR THAT ONLY LASTS FIVE YEARS? WE HAVEN'T BECAUSE WE ALLOWED TO. YEAH, WE HAVE. THERE'S PARAMETERS TO IT. WHAT'S THAT? THERE'S PARAMETERS. THERE ARE PARAMETERS, BUT THE POINT IS AS FAR AS MORE THAN JUST THIS, RIGHT, THE POINT IS, IS IF WE HAVE CASH THINGS TO DO AND THERE'S NO MORE CASH AVAILABLE TO GO TOWARDS INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, THEN THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE. THAT'S, THAT'S MY ENTIRE POINT UP HERE IS THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE HOW THEY ARE. IF WE WANT TO USE CASH THAT FUND THINGS THAT DEBT CAN'T GO TOWARDS, AND IF WE WANT TO GO TO ONLY CASH, THEN THINGS REALLY HAVE TO CHANGE TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO ONLY GO TO CASH. I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE STUPID FOR US TO EVER LOCK OURSELVES INTO [00:40:01] A SITUATION WHERE WE COULD ONLY DO CASH OR ONLY DO DEBT OR ONE OR THE OTHER. YES MA'AM. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO ACTUALLY DO THAT RIGHT NOW. OKAY. WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS THERE'S A BIGGER IMPACT TO THE BUDGET THAN JUST DECIDING CASH OR DEBT. BUT IT'S AN UNDERSTANDING THAT Y'ALL ARE OKAY WITH, WITH THE HYBRID APPROACH. YES. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF I'M TELLING YOU FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS WE CAN ONLY USE DEBT, RIGHT? AND THEN Y'ALL HAVE A PROJECT THAT'S IN YOUR DISTRICT OR FOR THE CITY THAT YOU WANT FUNDED AND IT ONLY HAS A LIFESPAN OF SEVEN YEARS AND I'M TELLING YOU THAT WE DON'T HAVE CASH FOR IT, THEN WE, WE ARE COLLECTIVELY MAKING THAT DECISION THAT THERE'S JUST NO CASH FOR THE NEXT SEVEN YEARS, TWO OR FIVE YEARS TO ADDRESS THOSE PROJECTS. THAT'S, IT'S LARGER IMPLICATIONS THAN JUST DECIDING THIS. UNDERSTOOD. OKAY. AND ALSO, I MEAN, IF YOU START DOING THAT, AND I WOULD AGREE, YOU CAN'T DO A ABSOLUTE THIS OR ABSOLUTE THAT BECAUSE WHAT WILL HAPPEN WOULD BE IF YOU, IF YOU'D HAVE PROJECTS, YOU'LL SAY THIS PROJECT'S IMPORTANT TO THE ENTIRE CITY. YOU COULD HAVE SOME IN A SENSE, NOT THAT IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, BUT SOME DISTRICT SPECIFIC PROJECTS, THEY'LL SAY YOU IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. AND I'M I'M SURE COUNCIL MEMBERS DON'T LIKE TO HEAR THAT. RIGHT. SO YEAH, BUT THAT'S, I MEAN THAT WOULD BE IF YOU WENT TO AN ABSOLUTE, I DON'T THINK WE RIGHT. AND I, BUT I THINK UNDERSTANDING THIS MODEL AND, AND WHERE WE'RE COMING FROM, I MEAN AT LEAST FOR MYSELF, SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, AS LONG AS I'M TOLD WHY AND NOT JUST NO, THEN I'M OKAY WITH THAT. IT'S NOT BEING FUN TOLD NO. YEAH. BELIEVE ME. I MEAN AS FAR AS, I MEAN WE WENT, I WENT THROUGH MANY BUDGETS LIKE THAT, DIFFERENT REASONS. I MEAN THIS IS LONG TIME AGO, BUT YEAH, I MEAN IT'S ALWAYS NO, JUST FIRST THING, NO, SORRY, WE HAVE RESOURCES, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA BE GOOD WORK WITH THEM. WE WANNA BE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE. WE, WE WANNA CASH. I MEAN I THINK YES, WE WOULD LOVE A CASH FUND, FUND THINGS AS MUCH AS WE CAN AND NOT PAY INTEREST. RIGHT. BUT THAT'S NOT ALWAYS GONNA BE THE CASE. SO WE HAVE TO ISSUE SOME DEBT. RIGHT. AND ISSUING DEBT, SOME DEBT DOES THAT ALSO DOES HELP OUR BOND RATING. SO WHEN WE DO, WHEN WE DO ISSUE DEBT, WE, WE REALLY REDUCE THE INTEREST RATE. RIGHT. SO FOR ME, I'M JUST PROVIDING THE WHY UP FRONT. YEAH. OKAY. AND I CAN TELL I'M FRUSTRATING SOME OF Y'ALL. I'M NOT MEANING TO FRUSTRATE Y'ALL. IT'S JUST NO, I, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY I APPRECIATE YOU KIND OF JUST TAKING IT KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A, I GUESS ALMOST A BLACK OR WHITE OR WHATEVER YOU WANNA SAY A OR B OPTION APPROACH. UM, PROBABLY MUCH NEEDED FOR ALL OF US TO, TO GO AND KIND OF GRASP SOME THINGS. UM, I WOULD SAY I THINK A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION THAT TOOK PLACE WAS IN FINANCE WHEN WE DID THE MATRIX ON SOME THINGS. MM-HMM . THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD FIRST STEP AND THEN YOU KIND OF GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL DOWN ON THE TYPE OF THAT, NOT JUST THE TYPE Y'ALL DID THAT, BUT WHEN IS IT APPROPRIATE AND WHAT TYPE OF PROJECTS, 'CAUSE Y'ALL PUT IN LIKE $30 MILLION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IF IT EXCEEDED THAT AND IT WOULD TRIGGER THE GO. RIGHT. UM, OKAY, SO THAT WE HAVE FIVE OF THE SIX UP HERE THAT ARE OKAY WITH DEBT. AND SO THE, THE NEXT QUESTION THEN BECOMES, OKAY, DO YOU WANT TO USE CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION OR DO YOU WANT TO USE GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS? AND JUST QUICKLY CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION ARE STUFF THAT COUNCIL ISSUES GENERAL OBLIGATIONS ARE VOTED ON BY THE CITIZENS. SO I WOULD WANT TO KNOW HOW Y'ALL FEEL ABOUT WHICH ONE OF THESE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE AS THE PRIMARY FOCUS FOR DEBT GOING FORWARD. YOU WANT US TO JUST TALK ABOUT IT OR YOU WANT SOMETHING ON? I'LL SAY WHAT I MEAN I PUT CASH BUT I WAS THINKING MORE CASH VERSUS COS I HAVE, I MEAN I'M NEVER GONNA HAVE AN ISSUE WITH A A GO AND GIVEN TAKING THAT TO THE VOTERS. UM, IF WE SEE A LARGE, SO I GUESS I'LL CAVEAT MY INITIAL ANSWER. UM, I MEAN IF WE SEE A LARGE SCALE PROJECT, UM, THAT WE THINK THE COMMUNITY WOULD GET BEHIND, I THINK WE GO FOR IT FOR EVERYDAY FOR SO FOR THE CIP YEAH. THIS IS WHY I WOULD LIKE Y'ALL TO WRITE IT DOWN. WE CAN KIND OF TALK ABOUT IT. YEAH. THAT'S DIFFICULT. IT DEPENDS. DEPENDS HYBRID. I GOT A HYBRID ANSWER. HYBRID ON THE HYBRID. YEAH. I THINK IT HONESTLY IT DEPENDS. YEAH, IT DEPENDS ON THE PROJECT. THIS GOOD FOR ALL OF US TO KNOW TOO, RIGHT? IT, I MEAN IT DEPENDS ON THE PROJECT. YEAH. I THINK IF IT'S, YOU'VE GOT EMERGENCY WATERLINE SITUATION, YOU CAN'T WAIT TO GO TO THE VOTERS THERE EMERGENCY COS FROM YEAH. YEAH. MAYOR, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT CHEESE AND ALL THAT. OH IT'S BACK HERE. HERE I HAVE NO PROBLEM IS HIS TAX RATE. YEAH, BUT THEY KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS [00:45:06] JACK. OH, I'M SORRY. IT DEPENDS. NO HONOR. SO SEVEN US, HE JUST TOLD US THE MAJORITY OF US ARE IN THE HYBRID PIECE. RIGHT. AND I WOULD SAY THAT MAKES SENSE, RIGHT? THE, I WOULD ARGUE THAT FOR ANY WATER SEWER, UH, REPLACEMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, WE GO COS THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION. ANY, ANY WATER SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE REPLACEMENT THAT WE HAVE TO DO THAT'S UNDERGROUND GOES TO COS THAT LARGE DEBTS LIKE THE AWA YEAST EXPANSION, THAT'S $68 MILLION YOU MAY WANT TO COME OVER HERE, BUT IT HAS IMPLICATIONS, RIGHT? IMPLICATIONS ARE THE NEW STATE LAW. IF YOU GO TO A GO AND THAT BAILS IT CAN'T BE FUNDED FOR FIVE YEARS. LET LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION. SAY WE NEED, I DON'T KNOW, YOU CAN'T BE DEBT FUNDED I SHOULD SAY, OR I THINK YOU CAN DO ANOTHER GO. WE CAN'T TURN AROUND PASS THE, YOU CAN'T PASS THE CO ON IT. YOU, YOU CAN'T PASS. OH YEAH, YEAH. SO IF WE NEED IT, I DON'T KNOW, A A BILLION DOLLARS MM-HMM . NEED ABSO ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT. IT FAILS IN GEO ELECTION. WHAT HAPPENS THEN YOU CAN, WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOW DO WE ADDRESS IT? YOU CAN EITHER CASH FUND IT, YOU CAN LOOK FOR A GRANT AND YOU KNOW THOSE ARE TURNED AROUND ABOUT A MONTH FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THAT'S A JOKE. THAT'S NOT YES. SIX TO 12 MONTHS. YOU WOULD KNOW, WHAT IS IT TWO YEARS OR LOOKING AT TWO YEARS FOR FEDERAL GRANT CHECKS. UM, OR YOU CAN GO OUT FOR ANOTHER GO OF VOTE WITH THE CITIZENS. UH, WHAT, SIX, IS IT SIX MONTHS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YEAH, YOU'D HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL MAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. YEAH. SO THERE ARE VERY BIG IMPLICATIONS ON USING GENERAL OBLIGATION DEBT IF IT DOES NOT PASS. SO I WOULD ARGUE THAT YOU WORK TOWARDS THIS, BUT THIS IS A VIABLE METHOD TO ISSUE DEBT FOR WATER SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE AND SOME PERTINENT PIECES THAT WOULD NEED TO BE DEFINED BY THIS BODY ON WHEN YOU WOULD USE THIS TYPE OF STUFF. NOW IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A WORKING POLICY DOCUMENT THAT GOES TOWARDS SOME OF THE DEBT ISSUANCES. YEAH. BUT IF YOU WANT TO EXPAND THAT FURTHER ON WHEN YOU USE CO AND WHEN YOU USE GEO, THAT NEEDS TO BE WORKED ON. I I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE THE MATRIX. I THINK THERE'S SOME, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT THEY NEED TO PROBABLY SEE IT. YOU MAY HAVE SEEN IT. YOU'RE ON FINANCE, RIGHT? SO THAT MATRIX IS HELPFUL, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE IT THE NEXT LEVEL DOWN BASED OFF YOUR QUESTIONS. AND AND I WOULD AGREE WITH WHAT YOU JUST SAID. COS FOR WATER, SEWER, I THINK STREETS, THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S A LIMITATION ON STREETS. THERE'S A LIMITATION FOR OUR CITIZENS ON STREETS. I MEAN, TEARING UP BEL OR FAIRWAY, I MEAN IT AND, AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE LAND PARK DONE. THERE'S A LIMITATION JUST LOGISTICALLY ON FOLKS WHO CAN'T JUST RIP UP EVERY STREET AND NEIGHBORHOOD EVEN THOUGH WE HAD ALL THE MONEY AND SAY, HERE YOU GO. RIGHT. SO THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE THINGS IN THE CONSTRUCTION B ITSELF. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE CASH MONEY WOULD HELP ON THAT. AND YOU KNOW, THE, THE COS LIKE YOU JUST DESCRIBED, THE COS ARE MORE NEEDS. THE GOS ARE VERY LARGE WANTS. WELL I I I DUNNO IF I AGREE WITH THAT. TOTALLY AGREE. THERE. THERE COULD BE THE TAX RATE ON OUR CITIZENS AND HAVE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT THAT WAY. WE, WE SHOULD IF IT'S GONNA BE A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY. BUT, BUT I'M SAYING LET'S SAY WE HAD, I'M GONNA USE A NUMBERS. SAY WE HAD A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS IN SANITARY SEWER OVERFLOW, THAT'S A NEED. I GET IT. BUT WOULD THAT BE A GO CO. A CO? YEAH. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A CAPACITY FOR THAT CO NO, BUT YEAH, I MEAN I'M JUST USING, BUT THAT'S THE EXAMPLE. BUT YOU KNOW, THE CITIZENS MIGHT SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, WELL THAT'S GONNA RAISE MY A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS CO WOULD RAISE THEIR TAX RATES. I DON'T WANT MY TAX RATE RAISED. WOULD YOU WANNA BE ABLE TO FLUSH THE TOILETS? YEAH. THERE'S THE, THERE'S THE SIDE ISSUE THAT, AND THEN YOU GET THOMAS TO DO A PR AND YOU EXPLAIN TO EVERYBODY WHY YOU JUST RAISE THEIR TAXES. BUT IT'S SO THAT THEY COULD FLUSH THEIR CRAP DOWN THE TOILET. SORRY, JUST AS IN ASIDE, COULD I JUST SAY THAT YOU CAN ISSUE GEO DEBT? IT DOES NOT HAVE TO MEAN THAT YOU INCREASE THE TAX RATE. RIGHT? BUT IT MEANS YOU HAVE TO USE THAT MONEY THAT YOU'RE FREEING UP, RIGHT? YEAH. THAT DEBT FOR THAT, NOT FOR M AND O. IT COULD BE NO, NO TAX IMPACT. I AGREE. I MEAN, SO I MEAN THAT'S THE GEO FOR A LARGE GEO, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO INCREASE THE TAX RATE, BUT YOU MEAN YOU NEVER HAVE TO INCREASE THE TAX RATE WITH THE GL OR IS THERE A POSSIBILITY? YOU TAKE IT OUTTA, YOU TAKE IT OUTTA THE MO YOU TAKE OUTTA OPERATIONS. I'M GONNA DRAW YOU TAKE IT AT A, WHAT? YOU TAKE IT MO OPERATIONS. OH, M AND OI DON'T SO THE SAME TAX RATE SCENARIO, YOU HAVE M AND O IN THE MIDDLE. [00:50:01] OKAY. IF YOU KEEP YOUR DEBT RATE STEADY, OKAY. SO LIKE I SAID, IT'S, IT IS WENT FROM I BELIEVE, UH, 32 CENTS DOWN TO 28 CENTS. THE DEBT RATE HAS. UM, AND SO THAT'S EVERYTHING UNDER HERE. IF YOU KEEP THIS STEADY AT YOU STOP IT AT 28 CENTS. OKAY? TO VICTOR'S POINT, ALL THE GOS CAN BE FUNDED OUT OF HERE. NOW IF YOU START PULLING IT DOWN, THEN YOU NEED TO SAVE THIS OTHER MONEY THAT YOU'RE, THAT YOU'RE, THAT YOU'RE ON THE OTHER GRAPH THAT, THAT I HAD, YOU NEED TO SAVE THAT. 'CAUSE YOU CAN DO A GO DEBT, BUT THEN YOUR TECH, YOUR DEBT RATE'S GONNA GO BACK UP AT THAT POINT. OKAY. UM, THE ISSUE THAT COMES WITH THIS AND THE VERY DIFFICULT THING TO DO IS THAT TO MAINTAIN 28 CENTS TO MAINTAIN A, A STRAIGHT LINE LIKE THIS, YOU HAVE TO ISSUE DEBT EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT DEBT'S ROLLING OFF, WHICH FOR US IS ANNUALLY CLOSELY RIGHT NOW. AND SO YOU'D HAVE TO ISSUE DEBT EVERY SINGLE YEAR. MM-HMM . WHICH IS WHY A GEO BOND OFFER WOULD MAKE SENSE BECAUSE YOU COULD DO A FIVE YEAR PROGRAM OF DEBT TO FUND THE FIVE YEAR PROGRAM AND ISSUE A THE DEBT ANNUAL FOR INSTANCE. OKAY, NEXT QUESTION. I ONLY HAVE TWO MORE QUESTIONS Y'ALL. FOR THIS, BETWEEN 0% AND 10%, HOW MUCH DOES OUR REVENUE GROW ANNUALLY? ASSUMING WE DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. WHAT DOES OUR EVER REVENUE GROW? LIKE ALL WE DO IS SHOW UP, PUT OUR THUMBS UP AND WALK OUT THE DOOR. THAT'S IT. HOW MUCH DOES REVENUE GROW EVERY SINGLE YEAR? PERCENT OVER HOW WHAT, HOW WHAT? THIS JUST THE THEORETICAL. I HAVE NO IDEA. I MEAN WHAT IT DEPENDS. I DON'T WANNA SAY IT DEPENDS. I'M SURE THERE'S LOTS OF, UH, VICTOR, DON'T ME TELL , JUST DON'T TOUCH MY 1.5. I SPENT IT FOR PROJECTION PURPOSES. PROJECTION PURPOSES FEEL LIKE I NEED TO DANCE WHILE I'M PUTTING THESE UP HERE OR SOMETHING. , IT'S REALLY LIKE FIVE. SO IF WE DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WITH REVENUE, IT'S ZERO. OKAY? IT'S ZERO. IF WE, IF WE LOOK AT WHAT HCA DOES AND ADDS PROPERTY VALUE, AGAIN, WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT. IT IS, IT IS ROUGHLY, ROUGHLY 2%. ROUGHLY. OKAY. YOU'RE SAYING OVERALL, OVERALL AVERAGE OUT OF ALL PROPERTIES. I MEAN, AND IS IT JUST REVENUE GROWTH IN NO, YOU'RE SAYING ALL REVENUE. ALL TOTAL REVENUE. OKAY. RIGHT. TOTAL REVENUE. ALRIGHT. WHAT'S TWO EXPENSES? IF WE DON'T INCREASE PERSONNEL, IF WE DON'T ADD ANY ADDITIONAL SERVICES, IF WE DON'T KEEP UP WITH INFLATION, HOW MUCH DOES OUR REVENUE GROW? WELL, I THINK THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT, BUT PERSONNEL, SUZANNE, EXPENSES, EXPENSES, HOW MUCH DO THEY GROW? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT CPI, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT DIRECTORS CHANGING THEIR EXPENSES REPORTS TO KEEP UP WITH INFLATION. I'M NOT, I'M SAYING IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING, YOU TALKING ABOUT OUR WATER BILL , WELL JUST THE GENERAL FUND RIGHT NOW, BUT SINCE GO UP, WE DO HAVE A RIGHT ANSWER UP HERE. IT'S 3%. OUR EXPENSES GROW 3% EVERY YEAR IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING. THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT WE HAVE CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYEE GROUPS. THOSE CONTRACTS HAVE STEPS BUILT INTO THEM. THOSE STEPS INCLUDE, UH, ROUGHLY TWO AND A HALF TO $3 MILLION A YEAR IN ADDITIONAL EXPENSES. AND WE DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. SO WITH THAT, OUR REVENUE, IF WE LOOK AT HCA NUMBERS OR APPRAISAL DISTRICT NUMBERS GROW AT 2%. OUR EXPENSES BEFORE WE EVEN [00:55:01] GO TO THE DIRECTORS GROWS BY 3%. SO WE HAVE AT THE VERY BEGINNING AN UNSETTLED OR AN UNEQUAL BALANCE ON OUR GROWTH CHART. AND SO WE HAVE TO BE AWARE OF THAT BEFORE WE STEP INTO ANYTHING ELSE. THAT WE HAVE 3% GROWTH BUILT INTO OUR BUDGET EVERY SINGLE YEAR NO MATTER WHAT. UNLESS WE DECIDE TO CHANGE THAT, WHICH IS NOT LIKELY. RIGHT. IT'S NOT LIKELY TO CHANGE THIS NUMBER VERY MUCH AT ALL. IT'S JUST NOT. I THINK IF I, THAT'S WHY WE, THAT'S WHAT HISTORICALLY WE USED JUST AS THE FLAT 3% GROWTH WITH EVERYTHING FOR A LONG TIME. RIGHT. BUT REMEMBER THE LARGEST EXPENSE THAT WE HAVE IN THE BUDGET IS PERSONNEL SERVICES. IT'S $96 MILLION. THIS 3% OF THAT 96 IS 70 MILLION. SO 70 MILLION OF THAT 96 IS WITH TWO DEPARTMENTS. AND THAT'S GROWN BY 3% EACH YEAR. IF YOU DO THE MATH, IT'S 2.1 QUICKLY. RIGHT. BUT IT'S, IT'S REALISTICALLY MORE AROUND 2.5. SO IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE WORKING AGAINST US BEFORE WE EVEN START ANYTHING ELSE WITHIN THE CLAIM. WITH THAT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE WITH THIS RIGHT NOW. ARE THERE QUESTIONS BEFORE I MOVE ON? NO. OKAY. SO , THIS IS A LITTLE AWKWARD HOW IT'S SET UP IN HERE, BUT I AM GONNA USE THE SCREEN BEHIND US. UM, FOR SOME REASON WHEN WE BUILT THIS FIRE TRAINING FACILITY, WE DIDN'T PUT A TV ON THIS SIDE OF THE WALL TOO. SO WE CAN STILL DO THAT. I WAS LOOKING FOR RYAN. WHERE'S RYAN AT? UH, IS HE NOT IN HERE? HE WAS DELIVERING COFFEE A MOMENT. OH, OKAY. IT'S IN THERE. THERE'S COFFEE DELIVERY. , WHO DO I TEXT? COFFEE DELIVERY. . ALRIGHT, SO WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED A LITTLE BIT, MAYOR AND COUNSEL AND I STILL WANT THIS TO BE AN OPEN CONVERSATION AROUND SUGGESTED POLICIES THAT YOU'LL, THAT YOU'LL SUE SOON. HERE AGAIN, WE'RE NOT GONNA GET INTO THE MONEY, UH, HOWEVER, IF YOU START ASKING MONEY QUESTIONS, I WILL ANSWER THEM THE BEST THAT I CAN. UM, UH, AGAIN, I WILL BE LOOKING FOR CONSENSUS AS WE GO THROUGH EACH POLICY, UH, BUT IT DOES NOT TIE OUR HANDS. OKAY. AND I HOPEFULLY, I HOPE THAT WE WERE ABLE TO FULLY DISCUSS THIS. AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT COUNSEL ASKED AT THE LAST MEETING WAS WHAT CHANGED? AND IT'S A VALID INQUIRY, UM, FOR THE STAFF. AND FIRST, YOUR ADMINISTRATION CHANGED. YOUR ADMINISTRATION CHANGED AND WE'RE OPERATING DIFFERENTLY. FOR THE PAST EIGHT MONTHS, WE'VE BEEN DOING THINGS VERY DIFFERENT THAN WE HAVE OVER THE PAST DECADE. WE'VE BEEN MORE ENGAGED AS AN ORGANIZATION BUILDING BETTER GROUP DYNAMICS, TURNING OVER ROCKS, EXAMINING THE FINANCES, AND LONG RANGE PLANNING JUST TO NAME A FEW. PREVIOUSLY WE DIDN'T HAVE A LOOK OR A HOLISTIC LOOK AT THE SYSTEM. WE DIDN'T LOOK AT HOW LEGISLATION IMPACTED US AND WE DIDN'T ANALYZE OUR FINANCIAL FUTURE. UM, SECOND, UH, WE'RE PRESENTING DATA A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE NOSE. THAT'S WHY YOU SEE SUCH A LARGE INCREASE FROM 23 TO 24. THAT'S ONE REASON THAT YOU SEE A LARGE INCREASE FROM FY 23 TO FY 24 ON THE ORANGE LINE. UM, WE ARE TRYING TO BE REALISTIC AND LET Y'ALL KNOW EXACTLY WHERE WE STAND WITH OUR FINANCES. AND THEN THIS ONE, AND FINALLY, WE DIDN'T ADDRESS SENATE BILL TWO, UM, WITH OUR BUDGETS IN THE PAST. I WANNA REITERATE THAT THIS IS NOT A DOOMSDAY SCENARIO, UH, BASED ON LOWER THAN EXPECTED PROJECTIONS. UH, FOR OUR REVENUE SOURCES, IT IS A VERY REASONABLE PROJECTION BASED ON PAST TRENDS. HOWEVER, IT IS ONLY REALISTIC IF WE DO NOTHING. AND THAT TO ME IS NOT THE PROPOSAL TO Y'ALL. WE HAVE TIME TO MAKE THE NECESSARY CHANGES. AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO REITERATE THAT WE ARE NOT IN A MOMENT OF CRISIS. THE, THE SITUATION THAT YOU SEE ON THE ON THE WALL IS A DIRECT RESULT OF SENATE BILL TWO. AND THIS IS NOT UNIQUE TO BAYTOWN. WE DO HAVE ADVANTAGES AND DIS DISADVANTAGES CURRENTLY AT PLAY. THE ADVANTAGES INCLUDE OUR NON-TAX REVENUES FROM THEIR IDAS AND THE TWO TWELVES AND OUR CONTINUED GROWTH IN THE ETJ. THE DISADVANTAGE IS THAT WE HAVE CONTINUED OUR [01:00:01] SPENDING AS IF IT WERE PRE SENATE BILL TWO, THE FOLLOWING POLICIES THAT I'M GONNA GO OVER, UH, WILL GUIDE US THROUGH A REALIGNMENT AND HELP KEEP THE BUDGET ON A SUSTAINABLE PATH FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. AND THIS IS MY LAST SLIDE, Y'ALL. SO THIS IS THE LAST SLIDE THAT I HAVE, BUT I WILL TALK THROUGH EACH OF THESE PIECES UP HERE. SO THE FIRST ONE IS THE RESERVE. I RECOMMEND, AS Y'ALL HAVE RECOMMENDED, THAT WE GO WITH A 75 DAY ON BALANCE, A, A MINIMUM OF 70 DAYS WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THERE'S A BUILT IN, UH, SAVINGS WITH OUR EXPENSES EACH YEAR. THAT USUALLY KEEP US UP AROUND THE 90 MARK. HOWEVER, AS WE, AS WE REALIGN OUR EXPENDITURES WITH OUR REVENUE AND WE'RE ENSURING THAT WE'RE SPENDING ONLY WHAT WE'RE BUDGETING, THAT GAP WILL START TO DECREASE. AND THE INTENT IS TO WORK UP TO THE 90 DAY FUND BALANCE. AND ONCE WE'D STOP, STOP HAVING THOSE, UH, THOSE LARGE DELTAS BETWEEN THE REVENUE AND EXP OR THE BUDGET AND THE ACTUALS. THE NEXT ONE UP THERE IS THE TAX RATE. MY PROPOSAL TO YOU IS THE SAME ONE THAT WAS IN THE PRESENTATION, IS THAT WE CHOOSE THE LOWEST OF THE NO NEW REVENUE, THE VOTER APPROVAL RATE UNTIL WE REACH 68 CENTS. AFTER WE REACH 68 CENTS, THEN WE, WE START WORKING TOWARDS A HALF CENT DECREASE IF WE ARE ABLE TO, UH, WITH EACH BUDGET. NOW I WANNA PAUSE THERE IN CASE THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS ON, ON THAT ONE. YOU SAID THE LOWER OF THE TWO, THE LOWER OF NO NEW REVENUE OR THE VOTER APPROVAL RATE. OKAY. UNTIL WE GET TO 68. DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHY 68 IS IMPORTANT IDEAS? BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE BRACKET. WHAT'S THAT? IT WAS IN THE BRACKET. THAT WAS A GREAT ANSWER. DON'T PUT THAT IN THE POLICY. I FORGOT WHY. I REMIND US. IT STARTS BUSINESS ON THE IDEA. IT STARTS IMPACTING US WITH, UH, WITH THE LARGER TWO TWELVES THAT WE HAVE ADOPTED. OKAY. OKAY. AT THAT POINT, THAT'S WHY I PICKED THE NUMBER. YEP. GOOD JOB. ALRIGHT. UM, I DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE. THE, THE NEXT ONE UP THERE IS SALES TAX. I DON'T REALLY HAVE A POLICY ON SALES TAX, BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON SALES TAX. I DO NOT FEEL IT'S THE COUNCIL'S RECOMMENDATION TO GET RID OF SALES TAX. UM, AND SO WE'RE NOT REALLY CHANGING A POLICY PIECE ON THAT. THE TALKING POINT FOR THE COUNCIL IS THAT WHAT I'VE HEARD AND THE RECOMMENDATION IS THAT WE BE AGGRESSIVE WITH TRYING TO CONTINUE TO GROW OUR SALES TAX REVENUE FOR THE CITY. RIGHT. I WOULD IMPLORE TO YOU THAT TO DO THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TEAM THAT IS ABLE TO DO THAT MORE AGGRESSIVELY. AND SO, UH, AGAIN, ASKING FOR THAT THIRD POSITION THAT WAS BUDGETED, BUT YET NOT FILLED TO FURTHER FACILITATE WITH THAT. AND UH, UH, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN DEDICATE THIS TO A PERSON THAT IS STRICTLY WORKING ON RETAIL, THE PEOPLE, HOW IT'S BUILT UP. RIGHT NOW, ONE PERSON IS WORKING ON SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT AND A LITTLE BIT OF RETAIL. THE OTHER ONE IS WORKING ON THE IDAS AND THE TWO TWELVES. AND SO I KNOW MARTIN AND HIS TEAM WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE HAVING THAT EXTRA BODY, UH, REALLY FOCUSING ON, UM, TRYING TO BUILD CERTAIN CORRIDORS WITHIN THE CITY, WHICH BE TEXAS AVENUE, ALEXANDER AND MOR ON GARTH AT THIS POINT IS FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, QUESTION ON SALES TAX, THERE IS A STATE LIKE MAXIMUM, CORRECT. WHAT IS THAT? DO YOU KNOW? TWO, 2% FOR CITIES. OKAY. SO THE STATE HAS, I MEAN YOU CAN CHIME IN. SO 2%, 1% ALREADY GOES TO THE CITY, HALF PERCENT TO THE MDV AND THEN THE SPLIT BETWEEN CCP D AND FIRE CONTROL. SO WE'RE AT, WE'RE AT, OKAY, THANK YOU. EXCEPT, EXCEPT FOR THE CHAMBER. JUST THE, THEY MAY HAVE TO SAY THE CHAMBERS COUNTY IT, EXCEPT FOR THE CHAMBERS PORTION. RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T, UH, COME OUT THE M DD, IT'S COVERED BY CHAMBERS COUNTY PUBLIC . UH, SO WE DON'T GET THE WALMART SALES TAX. RIGHT. ALL, ALL OF IT THERE. TOO MANY. THEY DON'T PAY THE MDD PORTION. RIGHT. RIGHT. AND WHO DOES THAT GO TO? IT GOES TO THE CHAMBERS COUNTY. UH, IS IT ESD? IS THAT WHAT IT IS? ESD, IS IT JUST WALMART OR ALL THE OTHER, EVERYTHING THAT WILL BE BUILT. EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THAT STRIP. EVERYTHING IN CHAMBERS COUNTY. THAT, THAT WITHIN OUR, JUST THAT HALF STEP. YEAH, JUST THAT. NO EXCUSE. YEAH, JUST ABSENT. OKAY. IT'S PRETTY IMPACTFUL. IT IS. AND AND I THINK THAT'S, WELL AT LEAST ON THAT, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS, WAS IF THERE'S ANOTHER TAXING ENTITY, IF THAT, IF THEY'RE OUTTA THAT 2%, IF [01:05:01] THERE ANY OF THAT REMAINS, ANY ENTITY THAT IS ABLE TO TAX IN THAT JURISDICTION COULD CAPTURE THAT. RIGHT. AND THEY DID. OF COURSE THEY DID. OKAY. SO AGAIN, WITH THE SALES TAX ISSUE, I WOULD ADD TO YOUR COMMENTS THAT WE WANT YOU TO BE AGGRESSIVE IN TRYING TO INCREASE IT, BUT ALSO BE CONSERVATIVE AND PROJECTING. YES, SIR. ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, THAT HAS SAVED US ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS. YEAH, RIGHT. I THINK YOU DEFINITELY, YEARS AGO THERE WAS SOME CITIES THAT THEY HAD VERY ROBUST SALES TAX, RIGHT? AND YOU JUST GET, YOU KIND OF FEED THE MACHINE, RIGHT? SO YOU JUST GET MORE AGGRESSIVE. AND THEN IN OH 8, 0 9, WHEN THINGS HIT THOUSAND SEVEN, THEY, THEY HAD A LAYOFF, THEY HAD BAT MASSLY OFF IN SOME BECAUSE THEY WERE SO DEPENDENT ON THAT REVENUE. IS STATE TAX POTENTIALLY VULNERABLE TO STATE? LIKE YOU'RE SAYING THE SIX 6.25? YEAH. COULD VULNERABLE LIKE, LIKE IN TERMS OF WHAT OUR LEGISLATORS ARE DOING IN AUSTIN? WELL, ARE WE VULNERABLE TO I WOULD LOVE, I LOVE THAT YOU ASKED THE QUESTION. I WOULD, I WOULD LOVE TO ANSWER MY OPINION. YEAH. I GUESS I THOUGHT I READ AN ARTICLE WHERE OUR LEADER WAS TRYING TO TAKE THAT DOWN TO ZERO. THAT'S PROPERTY TAX, I WOULD ASSUME. NO, IT WAS SALES TAX. I HAD TO READ IT AGAIN. IT WAS SALES HEARD. SALES TAX. I HAVEN'T HEARD SALES. I HEARD, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST, I HEARD IT WAS I I SAW THE PROPERTY TAX, BUT THEN I SAW ANOTHER ONE. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE 6.25? YEAH. THAT'S THE STATE THEY WOULD NO, OUR THE TWO YOU'RE SAYING THE 2% FOR THE CITY? YES. OKAY. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, BUT NO, WE, I KNOW THOMAS WOULD BE LOVING TO LOOK AT THE SALES TAX POLICIES FROM THE STATE TO ELIMINATE THE 10 CENTS TO TAKE DOWN OUR MAXIMUM. YEAH. OKAY. WELL THAT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED OF . YEAH. UM, OKAY, THE NEXT ONE UP THERE IS, UNDER THE REVENUE ACUTE, IT'S THE FEES, FINES, AND SERVICE CHARGES. UH, THE POLICY RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE FEES, FINES, AND SERVICE CHARGES, UM, OUTSIDE OF COURT, BECAUSE THE JUDGE WILL MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS HANDLED BY THE COURT. UM, THAT THOSE INCREASE EACH YEAR WITH CPI BECAUSE OUR COST INCREASED EACH YEAR AND THESE FEES, FINES, AND SERVICE CHARGES ARE ONLY THERE, UH, OR THEY'RE THERE TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THESE SERVICES AND THE SERVICES ARE MEANT TO COVER THE COST OF SERVICE TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE. NOW THE CAVEAT TO THAT IS THAT OUR COMMITMENT TO THE COUNCIL IS THAT THEY'RE REVIEWED EVERY OTHER YEAR TO ENSURE THAT THE COST INCREASES ARE NOT, UM, MORE THAN WHAT IT ACTUALLY COSTS FOR BY THE SERVICE. SO YES, SIR. ARE, ARE THERE SOME THAT ARE ALREADY NOT COVERING THE, I MEAN, WHEN YOU SAY WE'RE GONNA INCREASE BY THAT AMOUNT YEAR OVER YEAR, BUT DO WE, ARE THERE SOME THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED LIKE NOW TO KIND OF CATCH UP? UH, I WILL LET THE DIRECTORS ANSWER FOR THEIR DEPARTMENT. SO I DON'T, I WOULD SAY YES OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO, I KNOW WE JUST INCREASED THE ONES FOR, UH, THE AMBULANCE FEES AND THAT'S BEEN THE SAME SINCE LIKE 2004, RIGHT? OR SIX? SINCE 2006. SO IT DEFINITELY NEEDED TO INCREASE. I THINK THE LAST TIME PERMIT FEES WENT UP WAS 2019 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I BELIEVE. AND I KNOW FRANK HAS SERVICE CHARGES THAT HAVEN'T BEEN TOUCHED IN A DECADE MAYBE. OH, WOW. UM, SO I I, I'M SURE THEY'RE ALL AROUND AND IF COUNSEL WOULD LIKE THAT WE REVIEW ALL THESE BEFORE WE COMMIT TO A CPI INCREASE, WE CAN DO THAT AS WELL. BUT I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF COMMITMENT THAT THESE START TO, TO, UM, FLEX WITH THE CPII, I WOULD LIKE, BEFORE THERE'S AN AUTOMATIC INCREASE. I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT BECAUSE THERE MAY BE SOME FEES OUT THERE THAT AS A COUNCIL TO SAY, THAT'S OKAY, WE'RE TAKING A HIT. YEAH. AND I'M SORRY, I'M NOT TALKING UTILITY RATES HERE. THIS IS JUST GENERAL FUND. THIS IS NOT UTILITY RATES, IT'S EVEN FEES IN GENERAL. YES, SIR. UH, AND THEN THERE ARE SOME SERVICE FEES YOU AND I HAD DISCUSSED MM-HMM . THAT I WAS UNAWARE THAT WE WERE ABSORBING THE CREDIT CARD SERVICE FEES AND I WASN'T AWARE THAT WE COULD DO THAT. RIGHT. SO THAT'S A FEE, THAT'S A SERVICE FEE THAT WE NEED TO MAKE CLEAR THAT EITHER WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO ABSORB OR THAT WE'RE GONNA DO. WHAT I THOUGHT WAS APPROPRIATE WAS TO PUSH THAT BACK ONTO THE PERSON USING THAT CREDIT CARD AS A CONVENIENCE. SO, AND THAT'S HOW MUCH MONEY A YEAR IS THAT? IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT'S DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT. I, I WILL EXPLAIN THAT. AND IT'S A, UM, TODAY BALANCE. IT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD PREFER TO DISCUSS AN EXECUTIVE SESSION AS IT DEALS WITH PERSONNEL. I'VE GOT IT. OKAY. THAT JUST IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT. BUT AS FAR AS JUST GENERALLY AUTOMATICALLY SAYING, YEAH, FEES GET TO BE RAISED BY C BY THE CPI EVERY YEAR, THERE ARE SOME FEES THAT WE MAY BE WILLING [01:10:01] TO TAKE THE HIT ON VERSUS OTHERS. OKAY. AND THAT'S JUST MY, MY COMMENT. SO YEAH, I THINK, I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH MIKE OR, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THOSE PRESENTATIONS, THERE'S SOME FEES WE HAVEN'T ADJUSTED FOR 15 PLUS YEARS. AND THEN FOR US TO GO TO A, TO KIND OF A PLAN TO SAY, YOU KNOW, 2% EVERY YEAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE KIND OF HARD. THAT'S NOT, BUT I THINK THERE WAS GOOD EXAMPLES THAT RECENTLY ALSO WHERE THE FEES DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO OFFSETTING WHATEVER THE RESOURCE THAT WAS RIGHT. WAS UTILIZED. SO I THINK FRANK HAS ONE THAT'S LIKE $25 AND IT COSTS THEM TO DO LIKE A THOUSAND BUCKS TO, TO OFFER THE SERVICER SOMETHING. I'M WRONG. I'M MAKING, I'M BEING EXTREME FOR AN EXAMPLE. BUT I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S, AND AND THEN WE WANNA HEAR THOSE EXTREMES, RIGHT. YOU KNOW, AND SO, UM, BUT I THINK, UH, IN A SENSE THIS, THIS COUNCILMAN SAID A CARTE BLANCHE. I'M NOT SURE WE'RE THERE YET. OR AT LEAST I'M NOT THERE YET. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU FOR THE FEEDBACK. UM, MOVING ON, REVENUE TRANSFERS IS A, IT'S A, REMEMBER THIS IS THE REVENUE TRANSFER PIECE. SO I'M GOING TO UM, JAY, YES. OH, DEBT COLLECTION. DID I MISS DEBT COLLECTION? YES. UNDER FEES. OH, WAS UN UP. IT'S NOT UP THERE. DEBT COLLECTION. ENTER THE FEES, HUH? IF YOU WANT TO PURSUE DEBT COLLECTION ON YOUR FEES. OH, I'M SORRY. THANK YOU CAROL. UM, SO WE HAVE FEES AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ? UM, SO, UH, DOES COUNSEL, WOULD COUNSEL LIKE TO GO AFTER, UH, FEES THAT WE HAVE THAT ARE IN THE ARREARS OR, AND BASICALLY A DEBT AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL WOULD LIKE US TO BE AGGRESSIVE WITH, UH, GOING AFTER? BECAUSE, WELL, THERE'S MONEY STANDING OUT THERE. LEMME ASK YOU. SO COULD IT, THERE'S DIFFERENT TYPES, RIGHT? THERE COULD BE, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S, THERE'S DELINQUENT TAXES, RIGHT? MM-HMM . AND SO ON, BUT THERE'S OTHER STUFF. SO I WOULD JUST ASK THE COUNCIL IN GENERAL, AND THEN THEY STILL HAVE TO COME TO YOU BEFORE YOU VOTE ON THEM. BUT IN GENERAL, WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO AFTER? BECAUSE IT IS, IF Y'ALL REMEMBER, THERE WAS A CONVERSATION AROUND ONE OF OUR CONSULTANTS THAT WAS GOING AFTER TAX COLLECTION. IT DIDN'T SIT WELL WITH SOME OF THE RESIDENTS BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS AGGRESSIVE. AND SO WHAT, WHAT I'M ASKING IS TO GO AFTER DEBTS LIKE THAT, WE ARE HIRING PEOPLE TO GO AFTER THE COLLECTION OF THAT STUFF. SO IT'S, IT'S COLLECTING A DEBT FOR, FOR ME IT'S MATHEMATICAL BECAUSE IF WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME GOING AFTER PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE THE, THE MONEY TO PAY OFF THE DEBT, THAT'S FRIVOLOUS FOR US. AND WE'RE SPENDING MONEY THAT WE'RE NEVER GONNA SEE COME BACK IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BIGGER DEBT FROM ENTITIES THAT COULD COME UP WITH THE MONEY TO PAY US BACK. YES. BUT IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LITTLE OLD LADY THAT OWES AN AMBULANCE FEE NO, GO AHEAD. UH, SORRY. I WAS GONNA SAY, I SUGGEST I, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE A PROCESS IN PLACE WHEREBY WE IDENTIFY THOSE THAT, BECAUSE MY VIEW IS THERE, THERE, THERE IS DEATH THAT SHOULD BE WRITTEN OFF AND WE SHOULD SAY WE'RE DONE WITH IT, IT'S UNCOLLECTIBLE, BUT AT THE MOMENT WE DON'T HAVE THAT POLICY DIRECTION. AND FOR ME, THAT WOULD BE A WAY OF GETTING IT. OKAY. THE PROCESS WE GO THROUGH, THIS IS DOWN COLLECTIBLE. WE WRITE IT OFF AND WE'RE DONE. YES, SIR. AND MAYBE TO JUST EXPOUND ON WHAT, UM, VICTOR SAID, THERE ARE A LOT OF LEGAL RESTRICTIONS ON WRITING OFF MONIES THAT ARE OWED TO US. I WOULDN'T USE THE TERM DEBT. I CAN'T REALLY WRITE OFF A DEBT OR A LIEN, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN, UH, MONIES THAT ARE OWED TO US THAT A POLICY DECISION WE CAN REDUCE. I WOULD AGREE THAT WE NEED TO HAVE POLICY ON THAT. I'M KIND OF SHOCKED THAT A 75-YEAR-OLD CITY DOESN'T HAVE ANY TYPE OF POLICY ON THAT. YES MA'AM. ALRIGHT. UH, REVENUE FOR REVENUE TRANSFERS, I WOULD ASK THAT WE CONTINUE THAT WE OPERATE HOW WE HAVE OPERATED, UH, TRANSFERRING FROM OTHER FUNDS INTO THE GENERAL FUND. THE EXCEPTION TO THAT IS A DISCUSSION AROUND THE WATER SEWER TRANSFER OF 1.5 MILLION INTO THE, UH, GENERAL FUND. IF THIS WOULD CHANGE YOUR MIND TO START A DISCUSSION, THE 1.5 MILLION COULD NEGATE THE NEED FOR A 6% WATER RATE INCREASE. UM, UM, AND, BUT IT HAS DRASTIC IMPLICATIONS ON THE GENERAL FUND AT THE SAME TIME. WHAT ARE THOSE IMPLICATIONS? WELL, YOU'RE TAKING A MILLION AND A HALF OUT OF THE DEBT THAT'S OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND THAT'S IN, IN FRONT OF YOU. THEREFORE, WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT SERVICES, UH, FOR THE GENERAL FUND. AND I KNOW THIS IS A HARD TOPIC, BELIEVE ME, I UNDERSTAND THIS IS A HARD TOPIC. IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED THOUGH. AND THERE'S, I I I DON'T KNOW OF A DIFFERENT [01:15:01] WAY TO ADDRESS IT AT THIS TIME. SO THIS IS WATER AND SEWER. I, I MEAN WE COLLECT THE, THE, THE RATES, WHATEVER, RIGHT? AND THEY'RE TRANSFERRING BACK INTO THE GENERAL FUND. YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT. THERE DAMAGE FOR THE COST OFF THE ADMINISTRATION. OKAY. I THOUGHT WE HAD ANOTHER OPTION THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT AS FAR AS WATER AND, BUT THAT I'LL, I'M SORRY. TALK ABOUT, OKAY. YEAH. BUT IF THE 1.5 IS PAYING FOR THE ADMINISTRATION, ADMINISTRATION COSTS PAY FOR OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND IS NOT, NOT A REASONABLE CHARGEBACK. IT IS A, TO US IT'S A REASONABLE CHARGEBACK. TO ME IT'S JUST A POLICY DISCUSSION FOR THE COUNCIL. SO MY, MY PO CON I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE IF WE SAY, NOPE, WE DON'T WANT THAT COMING OUT OF WATER AND SEWER, WATER AND SEWER. YOU DEAL WITH YOUR OWN ADMINISTRATION, IT'S GONNA COST THEM MORE THAN 1.5. I THINK WE WOULD STILL OFFER THE ADMINISTRATION. WE JUST WOULDN'T CHARGE 'EM FOR IT, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. SO, SO AGAIN, GENERAL FUND NOW IS SUPPORTING AN ENTERPRISE FUND. AN ENTERPRISE FUND. AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE, WELL, THAT'LL GET YOU IN TROUBLE. SO IF AN ENTERPRISE FUND IS FUNDING COST, YES. NOW IS IT TRULY 1.5 MILLION? I MEAN, THAT'S MY QUESTION KIND OF HIGH. IS THAT REASONABLE? IS THAT A REASONABLE COST? AND I I I DON'T THINK IT'S 1.5. MY SALARY'S ALREADY PAID OUT A WATER SEWER DRILLING SALARIES ALREADY PAID OUT WATER SEWER. SO IT'S REALLY JUST LIKE LEGAL COST, UM, FINANCE SUPPORT. IT'S PROBABLY NOT ONE POINT. I WOULD SAY IT'S NOT 1.5. SO MAYBE WE SHARPEN THE PENCIL ON THAT PAYING FOR VICTOR. THAT'S PROBABLY CLOSE PRICE. BUT THAT WOULD WOULD BE MY COMMENT IS WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT TRANSFER FROM THE ENTERPRISE FUND TO THE DURNER FUND IS A REASONABLE AMOUNT FOR THAT ADMINISTRATION. BUT YEAH, ANYTHING ABOVE THAT SHOULDN'T BE. SO ONLY COMMENT I HAVE IS, IS SO WHEN THESE TRANSFERS OCCUR, WHAT AUTHORIZATION IS REQUIRED FIRST AND THEN SECOND? THE COUNCIL? YEAH, SO FIRST WHAT'S REQUIRED AND THEN MAYBE WHAT'S NEEDED. MY ONLY SUGGESTION WOULD BE, 'CAUSE AT THE END OF THE YEAR, I KNOW WE'VE ALWAYS DONE SOME TRANSFERS. I ALWAYS FEEL COMFORTABLE, MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO TO COME TO FULL COUNCIL, BUT AT LEAST TO GO TO THE FINANCE COMMITTEE FOR THEIR, AT LEAST THEIR, I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY THUMBS UP OR THUMBS DOWN BUDGET. IT'S BUILT INTO THE BUDGET RIGHT NOW. AND SO FOR, FOR ME, COUNSEL APPROVES THAT TRANSFER WITH THE ADOPTION OF THE BUDGET, RIGHT? THAT'S THE POLICY DECISION. YES. WHEN COUNSEL ADOPTS A BUDGET, THEY'RE APPROVING THAT POLICY PIECE OF TRANSFERRING IT IN. UM, FOR Y'ALL, I, YOU KNOW, I CAN COMMIT TO Y'ALL THAT WE CAN GO LOOK AT IT, SEE WHAT THE ACTUAL COST IS, SEE WHAT THE BENEFIT IS OF TRANSFERRING SOME OF IT BACK. AND I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD SUGGEST CHANGING IT IN THIS BUDGET PER SE RIGHT NOW, BUT LOOKING AT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE GOING FORWARD AND HOW WE CAN ADJUST THAT. UM, UH, MAYBE NOT INCREASING THE FULL, WE DON'T TRANSFER THE FULL ONE AND A HALF ON OCTOBER 1ST. RIGHT. IT'S TRANSFERRED THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. YEAH. SO IT'S TRANSFERRED MONTHLY AND WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND SEE WHAT IT REALLY, HOW THE IMPACT IS AND FIND OTHER EFFICIENCIES WITHIN THE WATER AND SEWER FUND TO TRY TO ADDRESS THE 6%. BUT PROPOSED RATE, UTILITY RATE POINT, EVERY LITTLE BIT WE PUT BACK IN THE WATER SEWER IS, IS A REDUCTION IN THAT POTENTIAL INCREASE. THAT'S CORRECT. BUT, BUT, BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS ASKING THE TAXPAYERS TO SUBSIDIZE THE CONSUMER, RIGHT? TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE SUPPORTING ENTERPRISE FUNDS. YES. AND, AND WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING THAT, BUT, BUT WE ALSO SHOULDN'T BE RE REQUESTING THE CONSUMER TO SUBSIDIZE, SUBSIDIZE TAXPAYERS. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE, SO WE GOTTA FIND OUT WHERE THAT BALANCE IS AND THEN MOVE ON FROM THERE. OKAY. THE NEXT ONE UP THERE IS EXPENSE. THIS IS THE BIGGEST ONE. UM, SO GOING FORWARD, UH, WE WILL ASK THAT EXPENSES GROW BELOW REVENUE EXPENSE GROWTH. OKAY. UM, AND THAT IN EXTRAORDINARY CASES LIKE THIS YEAR, UH, THE COUNCILS ALLOW AN OVERAGE WITH THE EXPENSES BEING MORE THAN REVENUE, UH, AS THIS IS A CORRECTION YEAR TO ACTUALLY SHOW WHAT THE TRUE NUMBERS ARE, UM, UH, IN THE BUDGET. AND THEN WE COMMIT THE STAFF COMMITS TO A HARD LOOK AT THE SERVICES WITH COUNCIL AND FY 24, UH, REALLY FOCUSING ON Y'ALL'S PRIORITIES, WHICH WERE PUBLIC SAFETY, INFRASTRUCTURE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND, UH, BEAUTIFICATION AND ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP. AND SO THAT'S MY RECOMMENDATION ON THE EXPENSE. AND THEN MOVING INTO THE DEBT, UM, I, UH, WE ARE PROPOSING THAT WE HAVE A HYBRID APPROACH WITH, UH, THE DEBT AND CASH. HOWEVER, WITH THAT SAID, UM, THAT THE CITY WILL START TO MOVE TOWARDS GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS, UM, AS THE PRIMARY SOURCE FOR LARGE PIECES AND, UH, USING COS UM, FOR WATER SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE AND OTHER SMALL [01:20:01] INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS. NOW THAT WILL TAKE US WORKING TOGETHER TO DEVELOP A POLICY, BUT ON A GENERAL FRONT, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN START WITH HERE AND WORK WITH COUNSEL ON BUILDING A, A POLICY FULL OUT, UH, FOR THAT. YEAH. AND IF I COULD BE CLEAR, WHEN WE TALKING ABOUT USING COS FOR WAR AND RESERVE PROJECTS, WE ARE EXPECTING THE WAR RESERVE FUND FROM CHARGES TO CUSTOMERS TO PAY, RIGHT. THAT COST SO DOES NOT FALL ON THE APPROPRIATE TAXPAYER. OKAY. ALRIGHT. BUT BY USING CEOS, IT'S CHEAPER DEBT THAN REVENUE BONDS. OKAY. AND THE OTHER PIECE UP THERE FOR THE TRANSFER IS THAT THE CONTINGENCY IS THAT 1%, IT'S NOT A FLEX, UH, IT'S NOT A FLEX PIECE, IT'S A 1% OF THE BUDGET GOING FORWARD. WE KNOW WHAT IT IS AND WE, WE CAN SET THAT WHEN WE'RE MOVING FORWARD WITH THE BUDGET. AND IT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT WE CAN PLAY WITH, UH, SHOULD SOMETHING COME UP THROUGHOUT THE BUDGET YEAR THAT WE NEED TO, UH, THE BUDGET ADOPTION SEASON IF WE NEED TO ADDRESS SOMETHING. BUT THE STARTING POINT WOULD BE 1%. AND WHAT DOES THAT EQUATE TO? UH, ROUGHLY 1.2 MILLION THREE DAYS. RIGHT. AND THAT'S ABOUT WHERE WE WERE PUTTING IN BEFORE, RIGHT? WE WERE LIKE 1 MILLION. NO, IT WAS CHARTER, IT WAS 2 MILLION. WE WENT DOWN TO 1 MILLION. YEAH, BUT I'M SAYING IT'S, SO LAST YEAR SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF MONEY, BUT, BUT IT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY. BUT WE ALSO HAVE OTHER OPTIONS. I MEAN, IF WE TRULY HAD SOMETHING THAT WE NEEDED TO STEP UP AND DO A CONTINGENCY, WE COULD DO BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR THE RESERVES, WE COULD TAP INTO THIS, TO THE RESERVE FUND. SO DO WE REALLY NEED 1.2 MILLION? I MEAN, WHEN, WHEN HAVE WE SPENT OUT OF CONTINGENCY? THURSDAY EVERY YEAR WE SPEND MONEY EVERY YEAR, EVERY SINGLE YEAR. WHAT DO WE SPEND IT ON? AND I KIND OF KNEW THAT ANSWER, BUT I GOT A COTTON CANDY MACHINE THIS YEAR. SO YOU GOT THAT BIG COTTON CANDY MACHINE. I AM OKAY WITH THE ONE POINT TOO. WE BOUGHT A FIRE TRUCK LAST YEAR. I'M OKAY WITH THAT. AND THAT WASN'T IN THE GENERAL BUDGET. THAT WAS THE BEST ANSWER. HE SAID THURSDAY OR IS THAT THE ONE THAT GOT, THAT'S A COUPLE YEARS AGO. ALRIGHT. FEELS LIKE EVERYTHING. UM, ENTERPRISE FUNDS, UH, THIS IS THE LAST ONE BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY DONE THE RESERVE. UM, THE ENTERPRISE FUND, I, I'M PROPOSING THAT THEY ARE SELF-SUPPORTING AND THAT HELP FROM THE GENERAL FUND SHOULD BE ON AN EXTREME CASE THAT COUNCIL CONSIDERS AND VOTES ON PERIOD. AND THAT'S ALL THAT I HAVE. IT'S THAT SELF-SUPPORTING ENTERPRISE FUNDS ARE SELF-SUPPORTING AND THAT HELP FROM THE GENERAL FUND SHOULD BE AN EXTREME CASE THAT COUNCIL CONSIDERS AND VOTES ON. ONLY COMMENT ON THAT. FOR THOSE THAT ARE NOT, ARE ARE CLOSE TO, IN A SENSE, NOT BEING IN THE BLACK, WE HAVE, WE NEED TO DISCUSS PLANS ON YES, SIR. ON ARLENE'S OPTIONS. YES, SIR. I I WAS THINK THAT WE NEED TO GET THEM IN. YEAH, BUT I, I, I DON'T WANT TO BECAUSE THESE ARE CHANGES THAT HAVE, I'M, I'M GONNA GO AS FAR AS SAY THAT THEY'RE DRAMATIC CHANGES. OKAY. AND IT'S GONNA TAKE TIME FOR ALL OF US, EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM, ROOM TO WORK TOGETHER TO, TO GET STUFF. AND SO I DON'T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT WE MAKE THESE CHANGES, YOU KNOW, BEFORE NEXT MONTH. RIGHT. UM, THE, THE BUDGET THAT WE'LL LOOK AT TOMORROW IS GONNA BE PRETTY HARD AND FAST FOR WHERE IT'S AT. UM, AND IF WE WANNA MAKE CHANGES, YOU KNOW, ANY DRAMATIC CHANGES OUTSIDE OF THAT IS GONNA, I'M, I'M GONNA ASK THAT WE USE THE YEAR OF FY 24 AS WE DISCUSSED IN MARCH TO REALLY LOOK AT SOME OF THESE SERVICES THAT WE PROVIDE AND SEE WHAT COUNSEL IS PRIORITIZING OR NOT. SO THAT IS ALL THAT I HAVE, UM, TO GO OVER THIS KIND OF RIGHT ON TIME. I KNOW THAT Y'ALL HAVE TO LEAVE, UM, SOME OF Y'ALL HAVE TO LEAVE FOR A FIVE 30 APPOINTMENT IN A MINUTE. YEAH. BUT I WOULD LOVE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT I CAN. I MEAN, I'D LIKE TO SAY, I MEAN I, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR YOU MR. CITY MANAGER AND, AND ALL THE STAFF, I REALLY LIKE TO EXERCISE. HOPE Y'ALL LIKE SOME OF THE SIMP, IT'S REALLY SIMPLE QUESTIONS. IT'S JUST KIND OF TRYING TO BUILD A CONSENSUS OF PHILOSOPHY, RIGHT? RIGHT. UM, I THINK THAT, I THINK YEARS, YEARS AGO THEY USED TO DO SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR. KIND OF LIKE IF YOU HAD TO EITHER RAISE THE TAX RATE OR CUT SERVICES, WHICH ONE WOULD YOU DO? RIGHT? SO IT IS THOSE HARD QUESTIONS. WHERE WOULD YOU KIND OF FALL IN LINE? AND WE USED TO GET THAT AS A SURVEY PRIOR TO BUDGET. AND SO THIS IS, THIS IS A GOOD EXERCISE. WHAT TOOK PLACE TODAY TO, TO TRY TO DEVELOP THAT PO THE POLICIES THAT ARE PROBABLY NEEDED, I THINK AS YOU EXPLAINED FOR EXPLAINED THIS, SU SUSTAINABILITY. FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY, OKAY. ALTHOUGH WE'RE NOT IN CRISIS, WE'RE NOT IN CRISIS. THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT, MATT, TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE NOT IN A CRISIS AND WE'RE FINANCIALLY OKAY CRISIS. HE ALREADY HAS HIS HEADLINE CITY IN CRISIS. BUT, UM, I WILL TELL YOU TOMORROW WE ARE GONNA JUMP INTO THE ACTUAL NUMBERS. THE NUMBERS THAT Y'ALL HAVE IN YOUR BOOK ARE, I'VE BEEN PAINTING THAT BOOK WITH PUZZLES ALL DAY LONG. , [01:25:01] THE NUMBERS THAT ARE IN YOUR BOOK ARE GONNA CHANGE. THEY ARE GONNA CHANGE, UH, TOMORROW'S BUDGET. YOU WILL SEE, WE WILL HAVE THE POLICE CHIEFS TALK ABOUT SOME OF THEIR PERSONNEL PIECES. I I ASKED THEM TO BRIEFLY BEFORE THIS, IF THEY WERE READY TO CHAT TODAY IN CASE Y'ALL HAVE QUESTIONS. UM, BUT THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE FIRE CHIEF ARE READY TO DISCUSS THE PERSONNEL NEEDS, UH, TO GO OVER THINGS. I WILL TELL YOU THAT THERE ARE THREE POLICE, UM, OFFICERS IN THE BUDGET THAT YOU WILL SEE TOMORROW. THERE ARE CURRENTLY THREE FIREFIGHTERS IN THE BUDGET THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE TOMORROW. HOWEVER, I'M GONNA CHANGE THAT TO NINE AND JUST FIREFIGHTERS OR POLICE FIREFIGHTERS, OKAY. AND I WILL TELL YOU THE REASON BEING IS THAT THEY ARE TWO AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS OVER AND OVER TIME TO CHIEF DOBSON'S DEFENSE. CHIEF DOBSON HAS BEEN SCREAMING THIS FROM THE, THE ROOFTOPS FOR YEARS AT THIS POINT. YEAH. AND, UM, INSTEAD OF PUTTING A NUMBER TO THE NINE FIREFIGHTERS THAT GO IN, WE WILL USE THE TWO AND A HALF MILLION DOLLAR OVERAGE AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH EACH OTHER AND ASSESS AS, AS THEY START FILLING THEIR VACANCIES AND WORK TOWARDS THE OTHER NINE THAT THEY NEED TO SEE HOW IT'S HELPING WITH THE OVERTIME AND WHAT THAT DOES TO THE OVERTIME NUMBERS. SO PLEASE NOTE THAT THEY STILL HAVE NINE OR 10 VACANCIES CURRENTLY. OKAY. AND SO THE NINE IS NOT ACTUALLY GONNA BE BUDGETED AS A ACTUAL NUMBER, IT'S JUST THE OVERTIME NUMBER THAT'S IN THERE AND WORK TOWARDS FILLING THOSE NINE. OKAY. I LIKE THAT IDEA. LET ME ASK IF THERE'S ANY, ANY CHANGES, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S ALREADY IN A NUMERICAL TYPE SETTING. CAN YOU, CAN YOU PRINT THAT FOR OUR BINDERS? LIKE ON EITHER YELLOW OR BLUE PAPER LIKE WE USED TO DO A LONG TIME AGO? IT'S A CHANGE OR CHANGES. YES. OKAY. OKAY. BARBIE PINK, I DON'T CARE. OKAY. BARBIE PINK. BARBIE PINK IS FINE. OKAY. JUST SO WE KNOW IT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND IT MAY CHANGE, BUT AT LEAST IT'S THE PROPOSED CHANGE. SO WE CAN KIND OF DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE, YOUR ORIGINAL BUDGET AND THEN WHAT'S, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS TOMORROW AND THEN WHAT WE MAY END UP WITH. OKAY. BUT CAN WE GET THAT EMAILED AS WELL PRIOR TO THE MEETING? NO MA'AM. I'M GONNA GIVE IT TO YOU AT THE VERY LAST MINUTE SO Y'ALL CAN ASK ANY QUESTIONS AND THEN TOMORROW, , I'LL TRY TO GET IT TO YOU TONIGHT. SERIOUSLY, THANK YOU . STOP IT. Y'ALL HAVE HAD ALL THIS STUFF FOR LIKE A MONTH AND A HALF NOW. . ANY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL MEMBERS? NO. THANK YOU FOR TODAY. YEAH, I KNOW THIS IS DIFFERENT. IT'S DIFFERENT ON PURPOSE THOUGH. IT'S DIFFERENT SO WE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT DISCUSSIONS AROUND STUFF. NO, I LIKE IT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WELL APPRECIATE IT'S, IT, MAYBE IT'S NOW ADJOURN. I CAN'T REMEMBER IF I DID. YOU DID NOT. THANK YOU. CAN YOU TURN IT OFF? YOU? I TRY TO DO MY PART. SOMETHING IS ON THE BOTTOM THOUGH. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.