Jun 06, 2023 CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION

HISTORICALLY, THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION HAS OVERSIGHT ASSIGNED TO THE DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RESOURCES.

THE FUNCTION OF THE CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTOR IS TO PROVIDE DIRECT SUPPORT TO THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION.

THE DIRECTOR PROVIDES THIS BY ENSURING THE CITY COMPLIES WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE 1 43 IN THE PERSONNEL ADMINISTRATION OF POLICE AND FIRE CLASSIFICATION, APPOINTMENT COMPENSATION PRACTICES, DISCIPLINARY ACTS, ACTIONS, LEAVES ENTRY AND PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATIONS, AND OTHER STATUTORY PRACTICES.

CURRENTLY, THE APPOINTED CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTOR IS CAROL FLINT, WHO HAS BEEN IN THIS ROLE SINCE JUNE OF 2008.

BECAUSE OF THE RECENT REORGANIZATION WITHIN THE CITY OF BAYTOWN, MS. FLINT'S ROLE HAS SHIFTED INTO AN INTERIM ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER.

DUE TO THE CURRENT RESPONSIBILITIES ASSOCIATED WITH THE INTERIM ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER ROLE.

THE REQUEST IS BEING MADE TO APPOINT A NEW CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTOR TO REMAIN CONSISTENT WITH THE CITY ESTABLISHED PRACTICES IN THE DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RESOURCES SERVING AS THE CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTOR.

THIS REQUEST IS BEING MADE TO ALIGN WITH THE OBJECTIVE, THE RECOMMENDATION.

WITH THAT, UH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE, UH, OUR INTERIM HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR JOEY LOPEZ, TO SERVE AS A CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTOR.

I WILL SECOND THAT MOTION.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? CONGRATULATIONS.

DENNIS , THINK YOU CAN MOVE YOUR MICROPHONE DOWN.

THE REVIEW OF PROCEDURES FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE APPEAL HEARING BY THE CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTOR.

THE NEXT ITEM IS

[b. Review of procedures for Civil Service Appeal Hearing by Civil Service Director.]

YES.

I'D JUST LIKE TO READ THROUGH A QUICK STATEMENT TO CLARIFY JUST THE APPEAL PROCESS IN GENERAL FOR THE COMMISSION AND FOR THE APPELLANTS AS WELL, AND THOSE IN ATTENDANCE SO THAT WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE WITH THAT.

AND THIS WILL BE IN REGARDS TO THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF DIVISION, CHIEF FIRE LIEUTENANT, AND FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAMS THAT WERE ADMINISTERED ON MAY 18TH AND 19TH OF 2023.

SO PURSUANT TO THE CITY OF BAYTOWN CIVIL SERVICE RULES, I WANNA REMIND THE COMMISSION AND THE APPELLANTS OF THE FACTORS THAT DO NOT SUPPORT AN APPEAL.

THE FOLLOWING FACTORS WILL NOT SUPPORT AN APPEAL INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO ONE EVIDENCE THAT OTHER REFERENCE MATERIALS OR SOURCES SUPPORT AN ANSWER WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN THE APPROVED ANSWER.

TWO.

EVIDENCE THAT THERE EXISTS ANOTHER ANSWER WHICH IS ACCURATE IN CERTAIN LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT WHICH IS NOT ACCURATE GENERALLY, OR THREE EVIDENCE THAT THE REFERENCE PAGE NUMBER IS INCORRECTLY STATED.

A PAGE NUMBER IS GIVEN ONLY TO ASSIST IN LOCATING THE BASIS FOR THE APPROVED ANSWER.

IN REGARDS TO THE STRUCTURE AND FORMAT OF THE APPEAL HEARING TODAY, THE PROCESS WILL BE AS FOLLOWS FOR EACH APPEALED QUESTION ON THE AGENDA TODAY, THE APPELLANT WILL BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT REASONS FOR HIS OR HER APPEAL.

THE APPELLANT MAY DESIGNATE SOMEONE ELSE TO PRESENT COMMENTS.

AND PURSUANT TO CITY OF BAYTOWN CIVIL SERVICE RULES, EACH APPELLANT WILL BE AFFORDED FOUR MINUTES TO SPEAK ON HIS OR HER APPEALED ITEM.

A QUESTION IN THE CASE OF MULTIPLE APPELLANTS, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM GIVING REDUNDANT TESTIMONY TO SOMETHING SOMEBODY ELSE HAS ALREADY SHARED.

AFTER THE APPELLANT HAS SPOKEN ON THE QUESTION, THE COMMISSION MAY ASK QUESTIONS OF THE APPELLANT, THE CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTOR OR ANY OTHER NECESSARY PARTY.

THEREAFTER, OTHERS WHO HAVE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM

[00:05:01]

ON THE LIST THAT WAS OUTSIDE WILL BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME BEFORE THE COMMISSION AND SPEAK ON THAT PARTICULAR ITEM.

EACH INDIVIDUAL WILL BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES, BUT I ASK YOU TO PLEASE KEEP IT BRIEF.

AND THEN AFTER, OR FOR EACH ITEM WITH THE APPEAL QUESTION, AFTER THE APPELLANTS HAVE SPOKEN, AFTER THOSE WHO HAVE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK HAVE SPOKEN, THE COMMISSION WILL MAKE A DECISION BY MAKING A MOTION AND THEN VOTING ON IT FOR THAT PARTICULAR QUESTION.

AND THE COMMISSION WILL DECIDE ON ONE OF THE FOLLOWING.

FOR EACH APPEALED QUESTION, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO KEEP THE ANSWER THE SAME AS THE ON THE ORIGINAL KEY.

YOU CAN CHANGE THE CORRECT ANSWER TO A DIFFERENT ONE.

YOU CAN ALLOW MORE THAN ONE CORRECT ANSWER, OR YOU CAN DELETE THE QUESTION FROM THE TEST.

AND THEN AFTER THE COMMISSION VOTES ON ALL THE APPEALED QUESTIONS ON THE AGENDA, WE WILL HAVE A RECESS TO REGRADE THE TEST, AND THEN WE WILL COME BACK TO READ THE FINAL SCORES AND CERTIFY THE OFFICIAL LIST FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATION.

ITEM TWO CI NOW CALL TO ORDER THIS APPEAL HEARING FOR THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF DIVISION, CHIEF FIRE LIEUTENANT AND FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATIONS, WHICH WERE ADMINISTERED ON JUNE 18TH AND JUNE 19TH, 2023 RESPECTIVELY.

ALRIGHT.

[c. Call to Order for Appeal Hearing for the Fire Battalion Chief / Division Chief, Fire Lieutenant, and Fire Engineer Promotional Examinations.]

WE WILL NOW PROCEED WITH OUR FIRST APPEAL, STARTING WITH ALL THE FIRE BATTALION DIVISION CHIEF APPEALED QUESTIONS, AND THEN MOVING TO THE FIRE LIEUTENANT APPEALED QUESTIONS.

AND THEN THE FIRE ENGINEER OPERATOR APPEALED QUESTIONS.

WE HAVE NO FIRE BATTALION CHIEF OR DIVISION CHIEF APPEALS APPEALS.

SO WE WILL NOW PROCEED TO OUR FIRST APPEAL, STARTING WITH THE FIRE LIEUTENANT APPEAL SEC APPEAL QUESTION.

SO THE FIRST ONE

[d. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 44 from the Fire Lieutenant promotional examination, which was administered on May 18, 2023.]

ON THE LIST IS ITEM, UH, APPEAL, QUESTION NUMBER 44.

AND WE ARE GOING TO, WE HAVE NO SPEAKERS ON THIS PARTICULAR ONE.

AND AUBREY, FOR CLARIFICATION, WOULD YOU MIND READING THE ITEM THAT WE'RE ON IN THE WE ARE I QUESTION PERTAINING TO THE AGENDA ITEM? WE ARE I IN TWO C? NO, I'M SORRY, 2D.

CONSIDER THE APPEAL OF QUESTION NUMBER 44 FROM THE FIRE LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONAL EXAM, WHICH WAS ADMINISTERED ON MAY 18TH, 2023.

THIS IS, UM, THE APPEAL WAS BROUGHT BY BLAINE COOPER, AND HE IS ASKING THAT, UH, WE CHANGED THE CORRECT ANSWER FROM ANSWER CHOICE A TO ANSWER CHOICE C.

DO WE WANNA READ THE QUESTION AND, AND GO THROUGH THAT? DO WE NEED TO READ ALL OF THE QUESTIONS AND GO THROUGH EACH ONE? WE CAN READ THE QUESTION, THEN WE CAN ASK THE APPELLANT IF HE'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO HIS QUESTION BEFORE THE COMMISSION.

SO QUESTION NUMBER 44.

IN THE WORKPLACE, THE BLANK POWER STEMS FROM POSITION, DESCRIPTION, AND POWER IS GRANTED TO THAT POSITION.

IF THE COMPANY OFFICER TWO ATTEMPTS TO EXERT POWER OUTSIDE OF THIS PRESCRIBED AUTHORITY, IT WILL BE DE-LEGITIMIZED.

IT WILL DELEGITIMIZE THEIR EFFORTS.

SUCH EFFORTS ARE LIKELY TO FAIL.

AND THEN THE ANSWERS, UH, A REVEREND B, EXPERT C LEGITIMATE D COERCIVE ACCORDING TO THE EXAM WRITER.

THE PERSON WHO, UH, QUESTION THIS, UH, IS ACTUALLY CORRECT, CORRECT ANSWER SHOULD HAVE BEEN LISTED AS ANSWER C.

SO IT WAS AN OBVIOUS ERROR ON BEHALF OF THE EXAM WRITER.

AND WE DO NEED TO ACCEPT ANSWER C.

THE QUESTION IS, DO WE ACCEPT BOTH ANSWER C AND A OR DO WE THROW THE TEST QUESTION OUT? IF I MAY INTERJECT, IF WE WANNA ALLOW THE APPELLANT, MR. COOPER TO SPEAK TO THAT BEFORE YOU ENTERTAIN MOTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS ON IT.

AND THEN ANYBODY ELSE WHO WAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THAT PARTICULAR ITEM WOULD ALSO WANNA SPEAK? I DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE WAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK THE, THE APPELLANT HAS A RIGHT TO SPEAK EVERY TIME ON THE QUESTION IF THEY CHOOSE TO.

THIS IS MR. COOPER HERE.

MR. COOPER HERE.

OH, OKAY.

UH, I WANNA WITHDRAW MY APPEAL.

YOU WANNA WITHDRAW? YEAH, JUST WITHDRAW IT.

AND IN THAT CASE, AND OTHER TIMES WE DON'T TAKE ANY ACTION WITH IT AND WE JUST WITHDRAW THE QUESTION FROM THEM, WITHDRAW THE QUESTION.

GO TO THE NEXT ONE.

THE NEXT ONE IS ITEM TWO E.

ON ITEM 2D THAT YOU HAVE ON THAT SIGNING THIS.

I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT , I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE NOBODY ELSE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK

[00:10:01]

NO, WE HAVE NO ONE.

SO ON THE NEXT ONE IS QUESTION NUMBER 94 FROM THE FIRE LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONAL EXAM, WHICH WAS ON MAY 18TH.

SIGNED UP.

[e. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 94 from the Fire Lieutenant promotional examination, which was administered on May 18, 2023.]

UM, THE APPELLANT, MR. COOPER, AGAIN, IS ASKING THAT WE ACCEPT ALL ANSWER CHOICES, THE OPINION OF THE EXAM WRITER, IS IT, THE QUESTION WAS CORRECT BEFORE WE, WHY DON'T WE LET MR. COOPER SPEAK? MM-HMM .

MR. COOPER? YEAH.

APPRECIATE IT.

UH, WE WITHDRAW THAT ONE AS WELL.

ONTO THE NEXT ITEM TWO

[f. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 24 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

F, QUESTION NUMBER 24 FROM THE FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAM, AGAIN ADMINISTERED ON MAY 19TH.

AND THAT ONE IS MR. BRIAN BAKER.

DO HAVE THREE PEOPLE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THIS? WE DO HAVE PEOPLE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK.

YES.

SO THE APPELLATE GETS TO MR. BAKER SPEAK FIRST.

UH, ACTUALLY I CHOOSE TO WITHDRAW THE QUESTION.

YOU GONNA WITHDRAW? YEAH.

WE HAVE OTHERS THAT ARE SIGNED UP FOR THIS QUESTION OR SIGNED UP TO PETE, BUT IF IT HIS QUESTION, HE WITHDRAWS IT, I GUESS IT'S DO THE OTHERS? YEAH.

IN, IN THAT CASE, IF THE QUESTION IS BEING WITHDRAWN, THEN THERE'S NO FURTHER ACTION TO BE TAKEN ON THE QUESTION.

WE WILL CONTINUE ON ITEM NUMBER TWO, G SPEAKER SIGNED UP.

[g. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 50 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

WE HAVE SPEAKER SIGNED UP.

THROW ALL OF THIS BACKUP PAPER.

QUESTION NUMBER 50 FROM THE FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAM.

AND AGAIN, MR. BAKER , I THINK YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO ASK IF YOU CAN APPROACH A BENCH.

I'M JUST KIDDING.

SPECIFIC.

GIVE US JUST A SECOND HERE.

IS THIS PART OF THE RESOURCE MATERIAL THAT WOULD, THAT YOU WERE ISSUED IN PREPAR? YES.

IN PREPARATION OF THE TEST, IT IS PART OF THE RESOURCE MATERIAL.

YES.

THE FIRST PAGE IS ACTUALLY CIVIL SERVICE LAW, WHICH THE TEST IS BASED OFF OF.

SO THE OBJECTION ON QUESTION NUMBER 50, WHAT'S LET MR. BAKER SPEAK? SO THE QUESTION, UH, IT IN MY OPINION ISN'T RELEVANT TO THE POSITION ITSELF, WHICH PER CIVIL SERVICE, UH, SECTION FIVE STATES THAT THE EXAMINATION QUESTIONS MUST TEST THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE ELIGIBLE POSITIONAL CANDIDATES, THE DUTIES OF THE POSITION FOR WHICH THE EXAMINATION IS HELD.

SO IF WE MOVE FORWARD TO WHERE THIS QUESTION IS ACTUALLY PULLED OUT OF ITS INSPECTING TESTING, FIRE PROTECTION SYSTEMS, UNDERNEATH THAT, I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED THAT THIS IS BASED OFF THE ORGANIZATION REQUIRES.

SO PER OUR ORGANIZATION, OUR FIRE ENGINEERS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO DO ANY TYPE OF INSPECTIONS, INCLUDING FIRE EXTINGUISHERS.

UH, IN THE BACK OF IT IS ACTUALLY OUR, UH, JOB DESCRIPTION FOR FIRE ENGINEERS FOR BAYTOWN.

AND NOWHERE IN THERE DOESN'T LIST INSPECTIONS FOR FIRE EXTINGUISHERS OR ANYTHING ELSE.

SO AT THAT POINT, I'M ASKING THIS QUESTION BE REMOVED.

ANYBODY ELSE SIGN UP TO SPEAK? THERE'S OTHERS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THIS ONE? YES.

UH, BRIAN, UH, TAYLOR AND, UH, TRIP? MR. TAYLOR, YOU'RE GOOD? I DON'T.

UH, TRE OR TRE? YOU'RE GOOD.

TRE.

50, SINCE THE, UH, MATERIALS IN, IN THE REFERENCE INFORMATION FOR THE TEST, AND IT TALKS ABOUT 40 POUND EX FIRE EXTINGUISHERS HAVE TO BE THREE AND A HALF FEET, NO MORE, THREE AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THE FLOOR, EVEN THOUGH THAT MAY NOT BE PART OF WHAT WE THINK WE'RE TRAINING FOR HERE.

OKAY, TREY, SO THE QUESTION BEFORE US THEN IS DO WE THROW THIS QUESTION OUT? DO WE ACCEPT? YEAH.

WELL, HERE'S, UH, MY THOUGHTS ON, ON QUESTION NUMBER

[00:15:01]

IT'S IN THE MATERIAL AND, AND IT'S JUST VERBATIM IS WHAT IT SAYS THERE.

ANY COMMENT? YEAH.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I SAW.

IT'S IN THE, UM, IT'S IN THE, THE RESOURCE MATERIAL THAT WE UNDERSTAND Y'ALL WERE ISSUED WHEN YOU ISSUED THE TEST.

UH, THIS OTHER HANDOUT YOU THAT YOU GAVE, UM, IF IT'S THAT RELEVANT, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN OUR PACKET.

I'M NOT SAYING IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT LEGIT.

I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT'S NEW INFORMATION THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO, TO REVIEW AND, AND SEE IF THEY MATCH OR DON'T MATCH.

IF IT'S, IF IT GOES WITH A QUESTION, IF IT, IT WOULD'VE HELPED INFLUENCE YOU, ANSWER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

I JUST DON'T HAVE, WE'RE JUST GOING ON, ON THE INFORMATION.

I AM GOING ON THE INFORMATION THAT WAS INCLUDED IN OUR PACKET.

SO I CAN SAY, OKAY.

SO BASED ON THAT, UH, I AGREE, UH, WITH MR. GERALDS THAT, UM, THAT, UM, WE DENY THE APPEAL.

IS THAT THAT YOUR MOTION? THAT'S MY MOTION, BUT WE DENY THE APPEAL.

I'LL SECOND THAT.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

ON TO THE NEXT ITEM TWO H, CONSIDER THE APPEAL OF QUESTION NUMBER 61 FROM THE FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAM AGAIN ON MAY 19TH.

AND ANY OPPOSED? NO.

SO WE'RE GOING TO DENY THAT ONE

[h. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 61 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

WE HAVE THE SAME, UH, SAME THREE SPEAKER.

OKAY, MR. TAYLOR, GOOD AFTERNOON.

I'M THE, UH, APPEALANT AND I HAVE SOME RESOURCES I'D LIKE TO BRING UP TO YOU.

THESE ARE FROM THE, UH, THE RESOURCE SPECIFICALLY.

SO I APPEALED THIS QUESTION BECAUSE, UH, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS ENOUGH INFORMATION IN THE QUESTION ITSELF TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN TWO OF THE ANSWERS.

THE TWO ANSWERS THAT I'M RECOMMENDING BE CORRECT ARE STRIKE TEAM AND TASK FORCE.

AND THE ANSWER THAT WAS LISTED AS CORRECT IS TASK FORCE.

SO THE FIRST REASON THAT I HAVE IS ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE PACKET THAT I HANDED YOU MM-HMM .

IN THE GLOSSARY, IT DEFINES STRIKE TEAM BEING A COMBINATION OF THE SAME KIND AND TYPE OF RESOURCES.

WHILE TASK FORCE IS DEFINED AS A COMBINATION OF SINGLE RESOURCES.

HOWEVER, THE QUESTION ONLY PUTS A GROUP OF RESOURCES AND LEAVES OUT THAT DEFINING FACTOR.

BOTH THE TEST MAKER COMMENTS THAT BOTH, UH, STRIKE TEAM AND TASK FORCE HAVE, UM, SIMILAR COMMUNICATIONS AND A LEADER, AND THEY DO AGREE ON THAT FACTOR.

AND THEN THE LAST FACTOR THAT'S CONSIDERED IS THAT THE TASK FORCE IS MADE UP OF FIVE UNITS.

BUT THE NEXT THREE PAGES IN THE PACKET THAT I HANDED YOU SHOW MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF STRIKE TEAM, UM, BEING LISTED AS HAVING FIVE RESOURCES.

ALSO, PAGE 44 FROM THE BOOK SHOWS THAT IN MANY AREAS, FIVE ENGINES, UM, FORM A STRIKE TEAM, BUT IT DOES NOT LIST A NUMBER, LIST A NUMBER FOR TASK FORCE, AND THEN THE STRIKE TEAM PARAGRAPH FROM PAGE 65 COMMENTS FIVE TIMES, I'M SORRY, CORRECTION, THREE TIMES THAT FIVE UNITS ARE USED IN A STRIKE TEAM.

AND ONLY ONCE ON PAGE 64, DOES IT SHOW THAT A TASK FORCE HAS FIVE UNITS.

NOWHERE IN THE BOOK DOES IT SHOW THAT A STRIKE TEAM WOULD EXCEED FIVE UNITS.

AND ONLY ONCE DOES IT SAY THAT A STRIKE TEAM MAY IN LIMITED RESOURCES INSTANCES BE LESS THAN FIVE, BUT IT DOES NOT STATE THAT IT WOULD BE MORE THAN FIVE AT ANY POINT.

SO I WOULD LIKE STRIKE TEAM AND TASK FORCE TO BE BOTH CORRECT, BECAUSE AS THE QUESTION WEEK READS READS, I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE BOTH CONSIDERED CORRECT.

ANYBODY ELSE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK? UH, YEAH.

UH, TREY, TRE, TRE, TRE, TRE, TRE.

TO STAND UP AND SAY, UH, I DO AGREE WITH MR. SOTAL ON THIS.

YEAH, I CAN READ.

I JUST WANTED

[00:20:01]

UH, WHENEVER I WENT TO THE BOOK, EVEN ON PAGE 66 ITSELF, THE ONLY TIME WHENEVER REFERS TO A STRIKE TEAM GOING OVER FIVE IS WHEN NUMBER THREE ARE COMBINED TOGETHER TO BE 15 ENGINE COMPANIES AS ONE.

SO IT'S STILL SHOWING HOW STRIKE TEAM GOES UP TO FIVE AND IT DOESN'T SHOW A SINGLE STRIKE TEAM BEING OVER THAT.

ANYONE ELSE SIGNED UP? THAT'S IT.

THAT'S IT.

ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS? YEAH, I WILL.

UM, I, I, I LOOKED AT THIS EXTENSIVELY AND THE WORD SIMILAR.

AND ALSO, UH, I DID NOT READ WHERE IT SAYS THAT THAT, UH, ONE, IT DOES NOT SAY THAT ONE CANNOT EXCEED FIVE UNITS, SO I'M INCLINED TO ACCEPT THE APPEAL.

JUST A COMMENT FROM MY POINT OF VIEW.

ALSO, THE, THE TEST WRITER ADMITS THAT THIS QUESTION IS A LITTLE CONFUSING, UH, BETWEEN THE TWO AND, AND COULD BE, UH, EASILY MISSED.

UH, SO I'M PROBABLY A LITTLE SYMPATHETIC TO THE APPEAL ALSO.

AND, AND, UH, PROBABLY IN FAVOR OF ACCEPTING BOTH ANSWERS.

SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT THE APPEAL.

CAN YOU, CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT YOU'RE ACCEPTING, ACCEPTING THE APPEAL TO, UH, TO ACCEPT, UH, TWO ANSWERS? THAT'S CORRECT.

UH, A AND D, WHICH IS STRIKE TEAM AND TASK FORCE.

OKAY, I'LL SECOND THAT.

SO BOTH ANSWERS WILL BE CORRECT THEN MORE PAPER.

[i. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 62 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

WE'RE ON TO CONSIDERING THE APPEAL OF QUESTION NUMBER 62 FROM A FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAM.

AND DO WE HAVE, YEAH, WE DO HAVE THREE, UM, THREE PEOPLE SIGNED UP? YES.

LOGISTICS SECTION CHIEFS WILL ATTEND.

IS MS. KELLY HERE? WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK? I WOULD LIKE, MAY I PROVIDE DOCUMENTS? SURE, YES, YOU MAY APPROACH BENCH.

THAT'S OKAY.

GO AHEAD.

YOU NEED TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE, PLEASE.

YOU, I CAN READ THIS WAY.

I APPEALED THIS QUESTION BECAUSE I BELIEVED THAT, UH, ACCORDING TO THE TEXT C, THE OPERATIONS SECTION, UH, WOULD BE CONSIDERED A VIABLE ANSWER.

UM, ACCORDING TO THE TEXT, UH, ON THE, THE FIRST SHEET THAT I GAVE YOU, THE INCIDENT ACTION PLAN IS DEFINED BY THE BOOK AS AN ORAL OR WRITTEN PLAN CONTAINING GENERAL OBJECTIVES REFLECTING THE OVERALL STRATEGY FOR MANAGING THE INCIDENT.

IT MAY INCLUDE THE IDENTIFICATION OF OPERATIONAL RESOURCES AND ASSIGNMENTS.

IT MAY ALSO INCLUDE ATTACHMENTS THAT PROVIDE DIRECTION AND IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE INCIDENT DURING ONE OR MORE OPERATIONAL PERIODS.

IN GENERAL, THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION IS HIGHLY DEPENDENT ON THE INCIDENT ITSELF IN QUESTION.

THE TEXT DESCRIBES FIVE LEVELS OR TYPES OF INCIDENTS AS YOU SEE ON PAGE 44 AND 45.

AND ALL INCIDENTS DO REQUIRE AN EAP, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, BUT ONLY ONE OF THE FIVE CATEGORIES OF INCIDENTS EVEN REQUIRES ALL GENERAL STAFFING POSITIONS TO BE FILLED.

THAT'S INCLUDING THE PLANNING CHIEF.

LIKEWISE, THEY'RE THE ONLY, THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF INCIDENTS THAT STATE THAT THE WRITTEN IEP IS ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED.

SO THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND MODIFICATION OF IN A, OF AN IAP IS NOT EXCLUSIVELY THAT OF A PLANNING CHIEF, THOUGH, IS THE QUESTION IS VA.

IT VAGUELY INSINUATES FROM A BROADLY EXTRACTED QUOTE FROM THE TEXT AND RARE OCCURRENCES WHERE AN INCIDENT REQUIRES THE STAFFING OF A PLANNING CHIEF AND THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ORGANIZATION OF INFORMATION GENERATED BY OTHER GENERAL STAFF, IT FALL, FALLS ONTO THE PLANNING CHIEF, UH, AND THE EX THE EXAM WRITER.

THE EXAM WRITER'S RECOMMENDATIONS WERE THAT THEY ADMITTED THAT THE OPERATIONS CHIEF INCIDENT COMMANDER, SAFETY OFFICER, LIAISON OFFICER, LOGISTICS CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS, AND PIO, THE PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER ALL HAVE INPUT INTO THE IAP.

THE INPUT THAT THE TEST MAKER REFERENCES IS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE IAP.

THE BOOK GOES ON TO DESCRIBE THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING THE WRITTEN IAP WHERE IT IS REQUIRED AT LARGE SCALE INCIDENTS.

THE PROCESS BEGINS WITH THE TACTICS MEETING DESCRIBED ON PAGE 88, WHICH I GAVE YOU A COPY OF, IN WHICH THE BOOK STATES THAT THE OPERATIONS SAFETY

[00:25:01]

AND THEN THE BOOK STATES THAT THE PLANNING CHIEF MAY ATTEND PLANNING CHIEF MIGHT NOT EVEN BE AVAILABLE AT THIS AT THIS PARTICULAR MEETING.

UM, THE SAME SECTION GOES ON TO STATE.

THE BASIS FOR THE WRITTEN IEP IS TO LIST THE OBJECTIVES AND DEVELOPMENT AND DEVELOPED THE NECESSARY TACTICS TO ACHIEVE LIFE SAFETY, INCIDENT STABILIZATION, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, AND PROPERTY CONSERVATION ENDEAVORS.

AND IT IS THE OPERATIONS SECTION CHIEF WHO DEVELOPS, SAID TACTIC TACTICAL MEASURES THAT WILL SUPPORT THE PROPOSED STRATEGIES AND OBJECTIVES PROVIDED BY INCIDENT COMMAND.

PAGE 84 AND 85 GO ON TO DESCRIBE HOW THE OPERATIONS CHIEF IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF FORM TWO 15, WHICH IS ILLUSTRATED IN THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER OF PAGE 85 THAT I PROVIDED THE ILLUSTRATE.

THE ILLUSTRATION DESCRIBES THE OPERATIONS CHIEF FORM TWO 15 AS A CENTRAL PART OF THE FOUNDATION OF THE IAP.

THE TEST MAKER REFERENCES THE PLANNING MEETING DESCRIBED ON PAGE 89 AS THE BASIS FOR HIS OR HER DEFENSE OF HIS ANSWER.

THIS IS THE FIRST INSTANCE IN THE IAP DEVELOPMENT PROCESS THAT THE BOOK DESCRIBES THE REQUIRED PRESENCE OF THE PLANNING CHIEF.

THE BASIS FOR THE IAP HAS ALREADY BEEN DEVELOPED AT THIS POINT, AND THE PLANNING CHIEF'S ROLE AT THIS MEETING IS TO FOLLOW A FIXED AND VERY BRIEF AGENDA, LESS THAN 30 MINUTES ACCORDING TO THE TEXT, TO PROVIDE THE COMMAND AND GENERAL STAFF THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW AND VALIDATE AND VALIDATE THE OPERATIONAL DECISIONS PROPOSED BY THE OPERATIONS SECTION CHIEF.

IF THIS IS NOT CLEAR ENOUGH, THE BOOK ALSO PROVIDES WEB LINKS TO RESOURCES AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 84, WHICH LEADS TO MATERIAL THAT IS BASED IS THE BASIS FOR THIS BOOK, UM, INCLUDING A FEMA SITE, A FEMA SITE, WHICH DE DESCRIBES SUPPORTING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE IEP AS ONE OF THE MOST CRITICAL FUNCTIONS OF THE OPERATIONS SECTION.

IN SUMMARY, UH, ON SMALL INCIDENTS WHERE THE PLANNING SECTION CHIEF IS NON-EXISTENT, AND IEP WILL STILL BE DEVELOPED AND IT WILL STILL BE MODIFIED ON LARGE INCIDENTS WHERE THE PLANNING CHIEF IS EVEN REQUIRED, IS RESPONSIBLE, UH, IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ORGANIZATION, FOR, HE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR ORGANIZING THE PLANS ON WHICH THE COMMAND AND THE GENERAL STAFF HAVE ALREADY AGREED AS A RESULT OF THE OPERATIONS CHIEF PROPOSITIONS DEVELOPMENT OF THE IEP OR MODIFICATION OF THE PLAN IS ONLY AN IMPORTANT RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PLANNING CHIEF SECTION.

IF THE PLANNING CHIEF EXISTS AND ONLY IN A VERY CLERICAL MANNER, I WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT THE ANSWER OF OPERATIONS CHIEF BE CONSIDERED AS WELL, VALID AS WELL, OR DISCARD THE QUESTION ENTIRELY.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU, MS. KELLY.

SO WE HAVE, UH, OTHER SPEAKERS SIGNED UP ON THIS ONE.

MR. BRIAN, MR. TAYLOR, MR. TRIP WHO SAID THAT? TR NO.

UM, SO I BELIEVE WHAT, UM, MS. KELLY WAS REFERENCING TO, AND MANY OF WHAT, MANY OF WHAT SHE STATED, UNFORTUNATELY I WASN'T ABLE TO FOLLOW IT TOO CLOSELY, BUT MANY OF THE FACTORS COME FROM PAGE, UH, 85, WHICH IT SHOWS, UH, EVEN IT GIVES A DIAGRAM OF THE FOUNDATIONS AND THE FORMS THAT LEAD UP TO THE INCIDENT ACTION PLAN.

UM, FORM 2 0 1 2 15, 2 15 A AND 2 0 2 THROUGH 2 0 8 ARE ALL ROLES THAT THE OPERATIONS SECTION CHIEF, THE, UM, SAFETY CHIEF, AND THE, UH, THE COMMUNICATIONS WOULD, WOULD, WOULD ORDER IN ORDER TO GATHER INFORMATION FOR THE FINAL PLANNING SECTION CHIEF TO PUT TOGETHER THE INCIDENT ACTION PLAN.

UM, OTHERWISE IF, IF A PLANNING CHIEF ISN'T IN IN PLAY, UM, IT IS THE, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IN THESE CHAPTERS, IT'S THE ROLE OF THE IC, UM, THAT WOULD INITIATE THE INCIDENT ACTION PLAN.

SO I WOULD, I WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT IF IC WAS A, WAS AN OPTION, UH, FOR THIS QUESTION, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE EITHER OR, BUT WITH OPERATIONS BEING IN PLACE, IF PLANNING ISN'T, IF PLANNING ISN'T A, A DESIGNED ROLE OR AN ASSIGNED ROLE, THEN IT WOULD BE THE ROLE OF THE IC AT THAT TIME TO DEVELOP THE IAP, OTHERWISE THE OPERATIONS CHIEF, ARE YOU ABLE TO, I CAN BRING THIS UP, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

SURE.

I'LL LET YOU LOOK AT THIS.

I'M REFERENCING THIS PLANNING KEY RIGHT HERE.

GOT IT.

AND JUST TO VERIFY, THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE, UH, THE RESOURCE MATERIAL.

THIS IS, THIS IS, THIS IS THE RESOURCE MATERIAL.

IN THIS LARGE STRUCTURE DOESN'T OCCUR UNTIL THE PLANNING MEETING, WHICH IS LED BY THE PLANNING SECTION CHIEF.

OTHERWISE, UM, MANY OF WHAT WAS REFERENCED WAS THE OPERATIONS SECTION CHIEF IN THE IC WILL DISCUSS THE INITIAL FOUNDATIONS IN THOSE FIRST SECTIONS OF THE PLANNING P.

BUT THE ACTUAL CREATION OF THE IAP

[00:30:01]

AND SO THAT'S WHY I, I THINK THAT PLANNING SECTION CHIEF SHOULD STATE THE ANSWER.

SO YOU'RE AGREEING WITH THE APPEAL? I DISAGREE.

IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY.

THAT'S MR. SOTAL? YES.

HE'S DISAGREEING WITH THE APPEAL, HE'S AGREEING WITH IT.

ANYBODY ELSE SIGN UP TO SPEAK? UM, THAT'S IT.

NO, UH, TR DID YOU SAY YOU, MR. T TRENT, YOU'RE NOT GONNA SPEAK? NO, SIR, I WITHDRAW.

THAT'S IT.

WELL, JUST TO COMMENT FOR ME WITH ALL OF THAT, UM, I, I APPRECIATE THAT INFORMATION, BUT THE, THE QUESTION IS ACTUALLY TAKEN VERBATIM OFF OF PAGE 67 IN THE REFERENCE MATERIAL, WHICH IS, AND SO WITH THAT, I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL.

I, I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION.

SO WE ARE GOING TO DENY THAT ONE.

LOTS OF PAPER.

ALL

[j. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 72 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

RIGHT.

THE NEXT ONE IS, UM, QUESTION NUMBER 72 FROM THE FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAM.

AND DO WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP FOR THAT? THAT'S TWO J.

YES, MR. BERG.

MR. BERG IS THE FIRST ONE.

CAN I, FOLKS NEXT? ABSOLUTELY.

I ALWAYS DID WANNA SAY THAT.

, THIS IS MATERIAL.

ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS OUT OF THE SAME BOOK THAT WE HAD.

REALLY, I MEAN, SO GO AHEAD.

I HAVE SEVERAL REASONS FOR THIS, BUT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE TO GO ANY FURTHER THAN ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE EXAMINER'S RECOMMENDATION.

THE FIRST SENTENCE HE SAYS IS THE QUESTION CORRECT ANSWERS WERE VERBATIM FROM THE SOURCE.

THEY ARE NOT, HE SAYS, THIS ALONE SHOULD BE ENOUGH JUSTIFICATION TO DENY THE APPEAL.

SO THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH JUSTIFICATION TO APPROVE THE APPEAL.

IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE QUESTION SAYS THE LEADING, CONTRIBUTING FACTORS, S IN APP, PARENTHESES OF MAJOR FIRES IN CHURCHES IS AND R AND THEN BLANK.

IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE QUESTION ITSELF, WHICH I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED IN PINK ON THE NEXT PAGE, IT SAYS, LEADING, CONTRIBUTING FACTORS NOT IN PARENTHESES, FIRES IN CHURCH ARE, THERE IS NO IS OR ARE THE IMPLICATION OF IS.

AND PUTTING PARENTHESES AFTER SOMETHING THAT IS NOT VERBATIM IN THE BOOK IS CAUSE CONFUSION AND BASICALLY INTENT TO MANIPULATE THE QUESTION.

IT IS NOT VERBATIM OUTTA THE BOOK, AND THEREFORE, IF IT WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN VERBATIM, THERE WOULD NEED, THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY QUESTION TO IT.

YOUR POINT IS MAKING, MAKING IT PLURAL AS WELL AS SINGULAR IS CONFUSING FOR THE QUESTION.

YEAH.

MY QUESTION IS, IT'S NOT IF PER HIS RECOMMENDATION, IF IT WAS WRITTEN VERBATIM, IT WOULD BE ENOUGH JUSTIFICATION, BUT IT'S NOT WRITTEN VERBATIM.

THEY CHANGED IT THEMSELVES.

ANYONE ELSE? HAS ANYBODY ELSE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK, SIGNING UP TO SPEAK? UM, YEAH.

UM, SAME, SAME THREE.

SAME THREE PEOPLE.

THREE PEOPLE, YEAH.

BRIAN, TYLER, AND CHECK.

I DO JUST WANNA STATE THAT WITHOUT GOING INTO IS OR R CATEGORY, THAT ON PAGE 3 48, AS THE TEST MAKER PLACED, IT DOES SAY THE LEADING CONTRIBUTING FACTORS OF MAJOR FIRES AND CHURCHES ARE DELAYING DETECTION AND DELAYING NOTIFICATION OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

SO WITHOUT THE, IS R PLURAL SINGULAR WITHIN THERE? THE QUESTION AND ANSWER ARE IN THE BOOK, WHICH WE WERE TOLD TO STUDY FOR.

UM, BRIAN, BRIAN, SORRY.

OH, OKAY.

TO DENY AND ONE SAYING, AND, AND AGREED THE EXAM WRITER RECOMMENDATION, UM, THEY, IT IS TAKEN VERBATIM FROM THE TESTAMENT OR FROM THE MATERIAL.

YEP, I GOT THAT.

I SHOULD HAVE TO SIGN UP.

SO THE QUESTION AT THIS POINT, ONE WARNING TO,

[00:35:01]

SO THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU WANT TO DENY OR APPROVE? I DUNNO, JUST THAT CONFUSING.

I, IT'S, IT IS, IT IS CAN BE A LITTLE CONFUSING.

THROW THE QUESTION OUT.

MAKE THE, MAKE THE WRITER WRITE IT DIFFERENTLY.

THAT'S NOT SO CONFUSING.

WELL, MY COMMENT, UH, JUST SINCE IT IS VERBATIM OUT OF THE RESOURCE MATERIAL, UH, WITH, NOT WITH THE SS OR THE ANDS, BUT, UH, IT, IT, IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION.

AND WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE LEADING FACTOR THAT CAUSES FIRES AND CHURCHES? AND WITHOUT READING TOO MUCH INTO US, IT'S DELAY IN DETECTION AND DELAY IN NOTIFICATION.

SO, SO WITH THAT, I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DENY THE APPEAL.

DO YOU AGREE? DISAGREE? YEAH.

FURTHER DISCUSSION? YEAH.

LIKE I SAID, WE'RE GONNA NEED TO HAVE A SECOND BEFORE WE DO ANY DISCUSSION.

FOUR.

AND IF THERE'S NO SECOND, THEN THE MOTION WILL DIE.

MOTION DIED.

YEAH.

SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, HAVE THE WRITER, UM, THAT WE, UH, DELETE THE QUESTION FROM THE TEST.

NO, SECOND, THAT MOTION DIES.

IT'S WHERE IT PASS, HUH? .

WELL, I, I KNOW IT, IT DOES LOOK CONFUSING, BUT I AGREE WITH YOU AS, AS IT DID COME DIRECTLY OUT OF REFERENCE MATERIAL.

BUT THEN THE EXAM WRITER GOES ON TO EXPLAIN WHY THERE COULD BE CONFUSION.

SO KIND OF AT AN IMPASSE, EITHER MAKE A MOTION TO GO OR, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL.

ALRIGHT.

I'LL MAKE ANOTHER MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL.

AND WE HAVE A SECOND.

YOU CAN SECOND IT.

ANYBODY CAN SECOND IT.

UH, I, I WILL SECOND THE MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL.

ONE OPPOSED? TWO IN FAVOR.

THAT MOTION PASSES.

[k. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 85 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

ALL RIGHT, NEXT LINE.

WE ARE ON 2K, WHICH IS THE APPEAL OF QUESTION NUMBER 85 FROM THE FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAM.

AND WE HAVE THE ORIGINAL PERSON WHO APPEALED IT ON HERE.

AND THEN ANY SPEAKERS, THREE MM-HMM .

AND THREE MORE SPEAKERS.

SO DISCUSSION? YES MA'AM.

SO QUESTION NUMBER 85 STATES, YOU SIMPLY CANNOT BE HANDS ON AND IN BLANK.

SIMULTANEOUSLY, THE TEST BAKER PUT DOWN THAT B FOCUS ON THE BIG PICTURE, WHICH IS IN THE BOOK.

BUT I ALSO WANNA STATE THAT ON PAGE 1 38 OF THE SAME BOOK, IT SAYS, WHEN COMMANDERS GO HANDS ON, THEY ARE NO LONGER IN COMMAND BECAUSE THEY'VE CHOSEN TO DO SOMETHING BESIDES COMMANDING THE INCIDENT, WHICH SHOWS THAT GOING HANDS ON ITSELF, THEY ARE NOT NO LONGER COMMANDING OR SEEING THE BIG PICTURE ON PAGE 2 89.

IT ALSO STATES, HOWEVER, IT'S VITALLY IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU PERFORM HANDS-ON ACTIVITIES, YOU ARE RELINQUISHING THE ABILITY TO EFFECTIVELY CAPTURE THE CLUES AND QS AND MAKE EFFECTIVE DECISIONS AT THE COMMAND LEVEL.

SO WHAT I'M ASKING FOR IS NOT ONLY FOR B TO STATE, THAT'S A CORRECT ANSWER, BUT ALSO D IN COMMAND TO BE ACCEPTED.

THAT'S THE CORRECT ANSWER DUE TO IT, IT IS STATED TWICE.

IT'S STATED ONCE ON PAGE 1 38 AND 2 89 AS WELL.

AND TAYLOR WITHDRAWN.

CORRECT.

VOTE WHO'S, IS THAT IT SPEAKING? YEP, THAT'S IT.

SO THE QUESTION BEFORE US IS, DO WE ACCEPT THE APPEAL OR DENY IT? YEAH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION.

WE ACCEPT APPEAL.

ACCEPT THE APPEAL, AND WE ARE MAKING BOTH ANSWERS, CORRECT? YES, PLEASE.

I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION AND WANT TO HAVE A LITTLE DISCUSSION

[00:40:01]

ON THAT ALSO.

THIS, AGAIN, THE QUESTION WAS TAKEN VERBATIM FROM THE, FROM THE MATERIAL.

AND SO WHY WOULD WE WANT TO ACCEPT THE APPEAL? WELL, IT'S, UM, IT'S IN, IT'S IN, IT'S IN THE TEXT.

IT'S IN THE TEXT.

LIKE YOU JUST, UM, YOU JUST HIGHLIGHT IT.

IT'S IN MORE THAN ONE LOCATION.

IT'S IN THE PICTURE BECAUSE THERE ARE, THERE ARE OTHER PASSAGES THROUGH IT, YOU KNOW, WHERE SAYING THERE ARE OTHER, THERE ARE OTHER PASSAGES THAT REFERENCE THAT.

AND YOU GAVE SPECIFICS IN YOUR BOOK? YES, MA'AM.

I, I DO HAVE IT MARKED HERE IN MY BOOK.

IF I CAN APPROACH AND SHOW Y'ALL WITHIN THE BOOK AS WELL.

SURE.

PLEASE.

THIS THE MAIN ONE I WAS TALKING ABOUT ON PAGE 1 38, HANDS ON.

AND I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT, BUT IT'S JUST THE QUESTION, IT'S NOT, IT IS NOT, IT IS NOT THAT.

THE QUESTION IS SIMPLY CAN YOU BE HANDS ON AND, UH, FOCUSED ON THE BIG PICTURE AT THE SAME TIME AND, AND THE MATERIAL SAYS NO.

WELL, AND SEE, I'M GONNA, BASED ON WHAT HE JUST SHOWED US, MATERIAL SAYS, WELL NO, THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT, WHOLE DIFFERENT ISSUE THAT THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION.

THAT'S, I'M NOT DISPUTING THAT INFORMATION, BUT THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION.

RIGHT.

AND, AND LIKE I SAID, I DO UNDERSTAND HOW THE CORRECT ANSWER THAT HE PUT DOWN IS IN THE BOOK VERBATIM, BUT I ALSO DO SEE THAT QUESTION OR THAT, UH, ANSWER D AS WELL IS IN THE BOOK FOR AS WELL, SAYING WE CAN'T BE HANDS ON IN BE IN COMMAND OF THE SCENE AT THE SAME TIME.

YEAH.

SO I THINK IF I WAS, IF I WAS TAKING THE TEST AND HAD ALL THAT RESOURCE MATERIAL, I THINK I WOULD, I'D BE THAT'S A LOT OF MATERIAL.

ACCEPTING BOTH, BOTH ANSWERS B AND D.

SO DO WE HAVE, WELL, WELL THE MOTION IS TO ACCEPT THE APPEAL.

TO ACCEPT IS TO ACCEPT THE, THE APPEAL.

SO THE MOTION TO ACCEPT THE APPEAL AS HAVING BOTH ANSWER, UM, B AND D.

B AND D.

UM, IT WAS YOUR MOTION.

IT WAS, I SECONDED.

OH, OKAY.

SECOND, YOU HAD TO CALL FOR A VOTE.

OKAY, SO ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.

SO WE DID ACCEPT THAT APPEAL.

WE DID ACCEPT THAT.

ITEM, UM, TWO L AND IT IS QUESTION NUMBER 93 FROM THE FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAMS. AND WE HAVE, AGAIN, MR. BERG, MR. BERG, ARE YOU, ARE YOU PRINTING THESE ON MY TAX DOLLARS? NO, I'M NOT .

TWO TO ONE.

I GOTTA COMMEND YOU GUYS.

IT'S A LOT OF MATERIAL.

OKAY, THE NEXT ONE IS

[l. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 93 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

YOU DID IT AT HOME.

SO THIS ONE WE'RE JUST, THE TEST MAKER ALREADY AGREED THAT THIS QUESTION IS WRONG AND THAT, UM, IT'S WRITTEN WRONG, THE ANSWER'S WRONG, EVERYTHING WROTE IS WRONG.

SO, UH, BASICALLY I'M JUST CONFIRMING THAT.

OKAY? OKAY.

AND WE'RE GONNA PROBABLY AGREE WITH THAT.

WE JUST NEED TO DECIDE WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO WITH THE QUESTION HERE.

THE TEST TEST MAKER'S RECOMMENDING THAT WE EITHER, UH, THROW THE QUESTION OUT, CORRECT THE ANSWERS OR, OR YOU KNOW, MODIFY GIVING US THREE CHOICES HERE.

EXACTLY.

THAT WAS A QUESTION I HAD EARLIER.

UM, I DON'T LIKE THE ONE WHERE ACCEPTS ALL ANSWERS AS CORRECT AND ACTUALLY NUMBER TWO DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME BECAUSE THAT WOULD INCLUDE AN INCORRECT ANSWER AS WELL.

SO, UM, I WOULD RECOMMEND MAKE A MOTION TO COMPLETELY STRIKE THE QUESTION FROM THE EXAM.

ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA STRIKE THAT QUESTION.

STRIKE THAT QUESTION.

WE'RE DOWN 99.

ALL RIGHT, THE NEXT ONE

[m. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 97 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

WE'RE DOWN TO

[00:45:01]

TWO M.

AND THE QUESTION NUMBER 97 AGAIN FROM THE FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAM, MR. BERG.

SO THIS IS THE SAME THING.

THE TEST MAKER, UH, SAYS THAT IT'S VERBATIM, IT IS NOT VERBATIM.

IT'S ACTUALLY ONCE, UH, PART OF THAT QUESTION IS FORMED INTO A SENTENCE THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT A FULL SENTENCE ON A SEPARATE PAGE.

AND THEN THE SECOND PART OF IT'S TAKEN FROM A DIFFERENT PAGE AND FORMULATED INTO ONE QUESTION.

THEY TOOK BITS AND PIECES FROM SEPARATE PAGES AND FORMED INTO ONE QUESTION.

INSTEAD IT WAS VERBATIM IN THE BOOK, WHICH IS NOT.

UM, ANYONE ELSE SIGNED UP FOR THAT ONE? YEP.

TR TR AND TAYLOR AND BRIAN, BRIAN LANGUAGE.

WAIT, THIS IS, UH, YEAH, THIS IS TWO TAYLOR.

AND TR IF YOU DON'T MIND, JUST TO PROCESS CHANGE, SPEAK YOUR NAME BEFORE THE RECORD WHEN YOU, WHAT'S THAT? IF YOU DON'T MIND SPEAKING YOUR NAME TO THE COMMISSION RECORD FOR THE YES SIR.

MY NAME'S ETTE DAR.

UM, SO IT DOES SHOW THAT QUESTION 97 DOES COME FROM THE, UH, YEAH, FROM THE SOURCES ITSELF.

IT'S, IT'S IN THE BOOK.

I JUST WANNA STATE THAT THESE OTHER, THE BOOKS WE WERE GIVEN, WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT THESE BOOKS AND AMPLE OPPORTUNITY, UM, RATHER IT'S LEADERSHIP RATHER IT'S ABOUT THE ENGINE.

US AS PROMOTING UP TOS NOT ONLY DO THE ENGINEER JOB, BUT THERE ARE TIMES THAT WE HAVE TO ACT UP AS OFFICERS AS WELL AND HAVE TO DO A LEADERSHIP ROLE AS WELL.

THANK YOU MR. SO TOWN.

HI TAYLOR.

OW.

UM, I'M JUST COMING UP TO ALSO STATE THAT I DISAGREE WITH THE APPEAL AND THAT, UH, THAT THESE BOOKS ARE RELEVANT TO THE EO POSITION AND LEADERSHIP, UH, IS A, IS A PART OF OUR JOB.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

SO, WELL, JUST TO COMMENT FOR ME, I THINK IT'S, UH, UNUSUAL TO BE QUOTING A FRENCH PHILOSOPHER AND THE, THE EXAM HERE , BUT IT'S IN, IT'S IN THE MATERIAL, ITS IN THE, IT'S UH, THEY'RE SHOWING THAT IT'S PRETTY MUCH VERBATIM AS TO WHAT, UH, DESCARTE, UH, WAS, WAS SAYING.

AND SO IF IT'S IN THERE, I'M, I'M GONNA HAVE A TOUGH TIME ACCEPTING THE APPEAL JUST 'CAUSE IT'S THERE.

SO, UH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL.

YEAH, I FEEL THE SAME WAY, SO I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION.

SECOND IT.

ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AND ANY OPPOSED? SO WE'RE GONNA DENY THAT APPEAL FRENCH PHILOSOPHER AT ALL.

THEN THE NEXT QUESTION IS QUESTION NUMBER OR ITEM NUMBER TWO.

AND

[n. Conduct hearing and consider the appeal of Question Number 99 from the Fire Engineer promotional examination, which was administered on May 19, 2023.]

NN.

AND, UH, VIRGINIA KELLY WITHDRAW WITHDRAWAL.

AND IT IS QUESTION NUMBER 99.

THAT ONE IS WITHDRAWN.

LAST ONE.

AND THAT WAS OUR LAST TEST QUESTION.

AT THIS POINT IN TIME, TAKE A RECESS TO RESCORE THE TESTING AND WHERE TO GO.

SO WE WILL

[o. Recess to regrade tests(s), if necessary.]

THERE.

WE'RE OKAY, WE'RE BACK.

[p. Reconvene the Civil Service Appeal Hearing.]

UH, I'M GOING TO, UM, RECONVENE AT THIS POINT, UM, AT AT 3 35.

WE ARE RECONVENING AND WE'RE GOING TO, I'M GONNA BE READING THE RESULTS TEST SCORES OF THE UH, REGRADING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WRITE THAT DOWN.

THIS TIME WE RECONVENED THE APPEAL HEARING FOR THE FIRE BATTALION DIVISION CHIEF, FIRE LIEUTENANT AND FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAMS, WHICH WERE ADMINISTERED ON JUNE 18TH AND JUNE 19TH, 2023 AND ANNOUNCED THE NEW TEST SCORES.

[q. Certification of the Fire Battalion Chief/Division Chief, Fire Lieutenant, and Fire Engineer eligibility lists.]

[00:50:01]

SO THE FIRST ONE, I'LL BE GOING THROUGH THE FIRE BATTALION DIVISION, CHIEF PROMOTION EXAM TEST DATE, MAY 18TH AT 9:00 AM THE EXAM RESULTS NOW, LET'S SEE, IS ANTHONY BRU CZ WITH UH, RANK NUMBER ONE SCORE OF 89 JAMES WEAVER, RANK TWO SCORE OF 85 JOHN SHEFFIELD.

RANK THREE SCORE OF 85 JAMES MOSS, RANK FOUR SCORE OF 83.

WE, WE APPROVE THEM ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

YEAH, JUST THREE.

AND THEN THE NEXT IS THE FIRE LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONAL EXAM AND THIS ONE WAS ADMINISTERED MAY 18TH AT ONE.

AND SO NOW WE HAVE, UH, BLAINE COOPER RANK ONE SCORE OF 98.

SEAN SAUNDERS.

RANK TWO SCORE OF 95 ESTEBAN RODRIGUEZ.

RANK THREE SCORE OF 91 JOHN HUGHES, RANK FOUR SCORE OF 89 AND JASON GARZA RANK FIVE SCORE OF 86.

AND THEN THE LAST ONE, THE FIRE ENGINEER PROMOTIONAL EXAM, LONG LIST.

SO TAYLOR, IS IT AL, THAT'S RIGHT.

RANK ONE OF 100.9 TEST SCORE TRET D, RANK TWO 100.9.

BRIAN BERG, RANK THREE WITH A SCORE OF 98.9 BLAKE STEFEN HOUR.

RANK FOUR, UH, SCORE OF 97.9 VIRGINIA KELLY RANK FIVE, SCORE OF 93.9.

RYAN GUZMAN, RANK SIX SCORE OF 93.9.

BRADLEY BRYANT, RANK SEVEN SCORE OF 93.9.

RYAN JONES, RANK EIGHT SCORE OF 90.8 GILBERT JUNE, RANK NINE SCORE OF 89.8.

MAKE SURE I'M HERE.

JASON KRAUS, RANK 10, SCORE OF 89.8.

JEREMY PIQUETTE, RANK 11, SCORE OF 86.8.

JEREMIAH CHAPLAIN, CHAPLAIN, THIS IS RANK 12 WITH A SCORE OF 85.8 MARTIN, I CAN'T EVEN PRONOUNCE THAT.

CAN'T EVEN START A PILOT.

S SLIK.

SLIK.

OKAY, UH, RANK 13 SCORE OF 83.8.

AARON MCNEIL.

RANK 14 SCORE OF 83.8 BRIGHTON SEABERG.

RANK 15 SCORE OF 82.8.

ERIC SULLIVAN, RANK 16 OF SCORE OF 82.7.

CARLOS ANDERSON RANKS 17 SCORE OF 82.7.

CHRISTOPHER TAYLOR RANK 18 SCORE OF 81.7 GARY HO HOSTEL RANK 19 SCORE OF 80.7 CHARLES EVES RANK 20 SCORE OF 78.7.

STEVEN BOGGS, RANK 21 SCORE OF 77.7 JOSEPH SOUTH, RANK 22, SCORE OF 77.7.

AND BRANDON BRANDON SPEARS RANK 23 SCORE OF 75.7.

WITH THAT I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE CERTIFY ALL THESE RESULTS FOR THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF DIVISION, CHIEF FIRE LIEUTENANT AND FIRE ENGINEER, UH, RESULTS.

I'LL SECOND THE MOTION.

ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

ALL OPPOSED.

SO THESE TEST SCORES ARE NOW CERTIFIED AND ACCEPTED.

UH, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS? I'LL MAKE A MOTION WE ADJOURN THIS MEETING.

I'LL SECOND.

SO ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.