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[1. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL]
NOT LETTING COME IN.THEY DIDN'T JUST DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
UHUH, SORRY, I'M JUST LEARNING.
STARTED THE RECORDING, BY THE WAY, STARTED THE RECORDING
THAT'S I WAS GONNA TELL YOU GUYS, SO IN CASE IT DOESN'T PICK UP THOUGH, SO NO MORE TIME ABOUT HIT RUN.
SO WE, WE ARE, SO WE ARE RECORDING TODAY.
UM, JUST IN, NOT JUST IN CASE, BUT WHEN WE GET NEW MEMBERS, UM, WE'LL BE ABLE TO PUT THE POWERPOINT WITH THE AUDIO UP AND WE NEW MEMBERS CAN KIND OF WALK CLOSE THROUGH THIS TRAINING.
[a. Receive training from the Planning Director concerning general instruction on Planning and Zoning Commission procedures and rules.]
TODAY'S TRAINING IS, UH, I WAS TELLING TAMMY THAT, UM, OTHER STATES ACTUALLY HAVE MANDATED TRAINING, A CERTAIN NUMBER OF CONTINUING EDUCATION TRAINING, UM, THROUGHOUT, YOU KNOW, EVERY TWO YEARS YOU'RE GONNA DO EIGHT HOURS, WHATEVER'S.AND, UH, THE STATE OF TEXAS DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE OPEN MEETINGS STUFF.
SO, UM, THIS IS AN EFFORT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THIS GROUP HAS EVER HAD ANY REAL FORMAL TRAINING OTHER THAN THE SORT OF ORIENTATION THING I DO WITH YOU GUYS WHEN YOU FIRST COME ON.
SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF QUESTIONS, UM, THROUGH TIME AND ABOUT EITHER PROCEDURE OR HOW'S THIS DONE, OR HOW DO WE DO THIS DIFFERENTLY.
THIS, I HOPE WILL HELP SHED SOME LIGHT ON SOME OF THOSE THINGS.
I WANT THIS TO BE INFORMAL, IS WHY I MOVED IT INTO THIS ROOM SO THAT WE CAN JUST KIND OF TALK AND DISCUSS, UH, AS A GROUP RATHER THAN ME JUST KIND OF LECTURING YOU.
'CAUSE THAT'S NOT THE, THE MATERIAL IS DRY.
UM, AND, UM, SO IN, IN ORDER FOR YOU TO GET THE MOST OUT OF IT, I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TALK.
SO IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE ASK.
UM, WE ARE GOING TO, UH, IS OH, SHE JUST LITTLE SLOW THIS LITTLE SLOW.
SO WE'RE GONNA TRY AND GET THROUGH SOME STUFF IN AN HOUR TODAY.
I HAVE MORE HERE THAT'S GOING THAT THAN IS WHAT IS I'M GONNA BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH TODAY.
WE'RE GONNA DO MORE TRAINING IN THE FUTURE.
I'M JUST, WHEN WE GET TO A POINT WHERE READY TO STOP, WE'LL STOP.
UM, SO JUST SORT OF AN INTRODUCTION ON PLANNING COMMISSION AND KIND OF WHAT, WHAT THINGS ARE HAPPENING, UM, SOME OF THE LEGAL ISSUES.
AND THEN WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS GROUP.
AND THEN THE MEETING STRUCTURE ITSELF.
AND THE MEETING STRUCTURE IS THE PART THAT I THINK WE'RE NOT GONNA GET TO TODAY, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ON AND THERE ARE NUANCES TO THE WAY THE MEETINGS RUN THAT.
UM, I'VE SEEN A DOZEN DIFFERENT PLANNING COMMISSIONS AND THEY ALL DO DO IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.
WHAT I'M GONNA SHOW YOU IS ROUGHLY WHAT WE DO NOW, BUT ALSO KIND OF WHAT I'VE SEEN WORKS BEST.
SO, AGAIN, WE MAY NOT GET TO THAT IF WE DON'T.
SO YOU'VE BEEN APPOINTED TO THE PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION.
OH, AND BY THE WAY, I DID STEAL A CHUNK OF THIS FROM A FRIEND OF MINE, UH, DAVE GADDIS, WHO WORKED IN, UH, DALLAS FOR, I DON'T KNOW, A HUNDRED YEARS OR SOMETHING.
HE'S RETIRED SO HE'S NOT USING IT.
UM, SO STRAIGHT UP DEFINITION PLANNING COMMISSION, A GROUP OF CITIZENS APPOINTED BY THE LEGISLATIVE BODY PERFORMS BOTH REQUIRED AND DISCRETIONARY FUNCTIONS AND LAND USE MATTER, BUT, YOU KNOW, SO PUT ZONING IN THERE AND YOU BECOME PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
WHAT DOES ALL THAT MEAN? WELL, WE'RE GONNA GET TO THAT AS PART OF TODAY.
SO WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TRAINING? UM, OF COURSE WE WANNA INTRODUCE NEW MEMBERS.
THIS IS A GREAT REFRESHER COURSE FOR EXISTING MEMBERS.
UM, AND THEN THIS ALSO, HOPEFULLY YOU GUYS GOT THE EMAIL THAT NAY SENT OUT, I THINK YESTERDAY OR THE DAY BEFORE OR ON NA SAW YESTERDAY, UM, REGARDING THE OPEN MEETINGS, UM, TRAINING.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF, IF ANY OF YOU HAVE EVER SEEN IT FOR THE SECOND TIME.
SO IT'S, THIS IS, UH, AGAIN, THIS IS MANDATED.
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SEE THAT WITHIN THE FIRST 90 DAYS OF YOU BEING ON THE BOARD.
I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYBODY DID OR NOT, BUT I THOUGHT, OKAY, WE'RE AT LEAST MAKE SURE EVERYBODY HAS THE LINK.
AND THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE IN THE OPENING.
SO IT'S ABOUT AN HOUR IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE.
SO, PLEASE TAKE AN HOUR AND, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT HERE.
SO, UM, WHAT ABOUT THE JOB OF YOU GUYS AS COMMISSIONER? SO THERE ARE LEGAL ISSUES THAT WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT'S KIND OF AT THE TOP OF WHAT YOU GUYS DO.
UM, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE BASIC ELEMENTS OF PLANNING, SOME KIND
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E EVENTUALLY WE'RE GONNA GET TO COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING, ZONING ORDINANCE, SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS, UH, AND THEN ENABLING STATUTES.WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT OF THOSE AS WE GO.
AND THEN, UM, WHAT WE DON'T GET TO TODAY, WE ARE GONNA KIND OF PUSH FORWARD FUTURE.
SO YOUR AUTHORITY, UM, OR DECISION MAKING COMES FROM THIS GENERAL POWER OF CITY.
SO WHERE DOES THAT GENERAL POWER AND AUTHORITY OF CITIES COME FROM? UM, OR, OR EXCUSE ME, WHAT KINDS OF POWERS DOES THE CITY HAVE? SO FIRST AND FOREMOST IS THAT ADMINISTRATIVE OVERSIGHT.
WHERE DOES THE TAX DOLLARS GO AND HOW DO WE GET THOSE THINGS DONE? SO IN OTHER WORDS, GETTING PEOPLE LIKE ME AND CHRIS HIRED AND HOW WE ARE AND THERE'S POLICE POWERS AND POLICE POWERS IS NOT JUST THE POLICE.
IT INCLUDES CODE ENFORCEMENT, UM, IT INCLUDES THE MANAGEMENT OF PUBLIC FACILITIES.
IT INCLUDES STREETS AND DRAINAGE AND BUILDING CODES AND ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT POLICE POWERS, IT IS A VERY BROAD THING THAT, THAT WE TALK ABOUT FROM OUR STANDPOINT.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT.
SO AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THAT, THAT WHOLE, UM, LAND USE PLANNING INFRASTRUCTURE, UM, THE BUILDING STANDARDS THEMSELVES, THAT'S AGAIN, ONE OF THOSE AUTHORITIES.
SO WHERE THOSE SOURCES COME FROM, AGAIN, ON FEDERAL LEVEL CONSTITUTION, STATE LEVEL, WE HAVE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE THAT IS IN THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION, BUT PART OF THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION.
THERE'S SOME MOTHER TEXAS STATUTES THAT APPLY HERE AND THERE.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE THE CITY CHARTER.
AND THE CITY CHARTER IS THE, THE PIECE OF PAPER THAT SAYS THESE ARE THE GENERAL OVER OVERRIDING RULES FOR THE CITY.
AND THAT ENABLES OUR ORDINANCES.
OUR ORDINANCES ARE KIND OF UP UNDER THAT CITY CHARTER.
UM, HOW ABOUT THE LEGAL AUTHORITY FOR DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS? SO AGAIN, WE HAVE THOSE GENERAL POLICE POWERS PROTECT THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE COMMUNITY.
CHRIS AND I SEE THAT EVERY DAY PROTECT HEALTH SAFETY, WELFARE HEALTH, SAFETY, WELFARE, HEALTH SAFETY.
THAT'S ALWAYS PART OF WHAT WE DO.
IT'S, AND IT IS ALWAYS PART OF WHAT, UM, IT DOES INCLUDE THAT SPECIFIC.
SO IT'S SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT IN THE STATUTE.
UM, NOW I PUT SOME TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE CHAPTERS UP HERE WHERE THESE THINGS ARE FOUND.
I I, I DON'T NECESSARILY EXPECT YOU TO RUN OUT AND LOOK THOSE UP THERE ONLINE, BUT IF YOU WANT TO, I'VE INCLUDED THOSE CHAPTERS HERE IN CASE YOU DECIDE YOU WANT GO CHECK.
SO ZONING AUTHORITY IS IN CHAPTER TWO 11.
SUBDIVISION AUTHORITY IS IN TWO 12.
COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING IS IN TWO 13.
UM, THERE IS A SUBTLE DIFFERENCE IN, THERE'S KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF CITIES.
UM, WE ARE A HOME RULE CITY, BUT THERE'S ALSO DYLAN'S RULE.
DOES ANYBODY KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO? OKAY.
SO HOME RULE IS BASICALLY, UM, WE AS A CITY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE UP OUR OWN, NOT MAKE UP, BUT MAKE OUR OWN REGULATIONS IF THE STATE IS SILENT.
SO IF THE STATE DOESN'T SAY YOU CAN OR CAN'T DO THIS, THE CITY CAN MAKE THAT DETERMINATION ON THEIR OWN.
IN DYLAN'S RULE, THAT IS MORE, IT DOESN'T SAY YOU CAN DO IT IN THE STATE STATUTE, YOU CAN'T DO IT.
SO IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE CITY.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW HOW THAT CAME ABOUT AT THE TEXAS THING.
AND YEAH, IT'S JUST THE STATE WANTING TO KEEP AS MUCH POWER AS POSSIBLE, RIGHT? YEAH.
THE STATE WOULD RATHER SAY THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS HOME RULE.
THE CAPITAL WOULD RATHER HOLD THAT, THAT AUTHORITY TO THEMSELVES.
FORTUNATELY, WE HAD SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE FORWARD WORKING ENOUGH THAT WE KNEW THAT THAT MAYBE WAS THE BEST IDEA.
SO WE ARE A HOME RULE CITY AND THEN WE HAVE THE CHAIR EXTRA TERRITORIAL JURISDICTION.
DOES EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND EXTRATERRITORIAL JURISDICTION? WHAT THAT MEANS? NO.
OKAY, SO I'M GONNA SHOW YOU, THIS IS STRAIGHT OUT OF OUR COMP PLAN.
EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THE YELLOW IS BAYTOWN PROPER.
EVERYTHING IN WHITE, OUTSIDE THE YELLOW, BUT INSIDE THE GREEN LINE IS IN OUR EXTRATERRITORIAL JURISDICTION.
THAT IS AN AREA THAT WE PLAN FOR THAT.
WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING ON LAND USE MAP THAT COMES UP, UH, FUTURE LAND USE MAP WHEN SOMEBODY'S REZONING, THAT'S, WE'VE, WE'VE PLANNED ALL THE WAY OUT TO THE, UH, THE, THE GREEN LINE.
SO WE HAVE CERTAIN AUTHORITIES OUTSIDE THAT GREEN LINE AS WELL.
WE GET TO, UM, SUBDIVISION PLAN.
WE, WE DO, UH, SOME OF THE, THE LAST MEETING WE HAD SOME VARIANCES.
THE REASON YOU HAD VARIANCES BECAUSE THEY'RE IN, I'M, I'M GONNA CALL IT THE ETJ, WE HEARD THAT, UH, ACRONYM BEFORE THE, UM, VARIANCES THAT COME UP IN THE ETJ ARE OUTSIDE OF THE AUTHORITY OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY
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AUTHORITY OUTSIDE THE YELLOW.YOU DO, YOU HAVE A VERY LIMITED AMOUNT OF AUTHORITY OUTSIDE THE YELLOW, BUT INSIDE THE GREEN WITH THE GREEN LINE DOES FOR US IS IT KIND OF, IT CREATES A, A GROWTH LINE BETWEEN US AND THE NEXT CITY.
UM, SO ON THAT NORTHERN SIDE, YOU'RE GONNA SEE MONT BELLEVUE'S LINE COME, PROBABLY COMES RIGHT DOWN TO OURS.
UM, IN OTHER AREAS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOME NO MAN'S LAND, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD EVENTUALLY SEE THE CITY AS BUILDING OUT TO.
AND IT MAY TAKE 50, A HUNDRED, 200 YEARS FOR IT TO GET OUT TO THAT.
BUT THAT IS FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.
IS THERE, LIKE, YOU'VE GOT A FUTURE LAND USE, MA'AM, IS THERE A FUTURE ANNEXATION PLAN THAT TRIES TO DEFINE THOSE TIME PERIODS WHERE WE MIGHT GROW OUT THERE? NO.
AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT.
WE MIGHT HAVE HAD SUCH A THING IN THE PAST, BUT THREE YEARS AGO IT WAS, IT WAS 2019, THERE WAS A CHANGE ON STATE LEVEL THAT WOULD NO LONGER ALLOW US AS A CITY TO GO IN AND ANNEX PROPERTIES WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
WE USED TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND MOST STATES DO ALLOW FOR THAT.
EVERY STATE I'VE WORKED IN ALLOWS FOR, UM, WE CALL IT NON-CONSENSUAL.
SO YOU CAN ONLY ANNEX VOLUNTARY, INVOLUNTARY, CONSENSUAL.
YOU CAN ONLY ANNEX PROPERTY BY PROPERTY AS THEY REQUEST.
CURRENTLY THERE ARE SOME, THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THAT.
UM, IF IT'S, HOW DID, HOW DID DAYTON GET AWAY WITH ANNEXING ALMOST ALL THE WAY TO OUR CITY LIMITS? WHO? DAYTON, THE CITY OF DAYTON.
DID THAT HAPPEN BEFORE 2019? I DON'T KNOW.
'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT
BUT IF THEY HAD ALL THE PROPERTY OWNERS ON BOARD, THEN THEY COULD ABSOLUTELY.
CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING ARE PRETTY AT 1 46.
YOU DON'T BARELY GO ANY ANYWAYS AT ALL.
AND YOU'RE IN THE CITY OF DAYTON OFFICIALLY.
OKAY, SO THIS MAP ON, ON BAYTOWN DO ORG, IT'S IN, UM, IT'S IN THE COMP PLAN.
SO IT SAW YOU TAKING A PICTURE OF IT.
YOU CAN FIND THAT IN THE DOCUMENT.
UM, SO AGAIN, AS WE TALK ABOUT THE ETJ AND THEIR, YOUR AUTHORITY, UM, TAKES A SHIFT WHEN WE GET TO THE ETJ, OUR AUTHORITY AS THE CITY TAKES A SHIFT.
WHEN YOU GET TO THAT PART OF THE, UM, I'M GONNA KEEP GOING UNLESS, UNLESS ANYBODY HAS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, WE COULD KEEP GOING ON AND ON ABOUT THAT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF LITTLE SUBTLE DIFFERENCES THAT YOU GUYS DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT, BUT CHRIS AND I HAVE TO MONITOR ON A REGULAR BASIS.
UM, SO AS WE TALK ABOUT THERE'S AUTHORITY TO REGULATE DEVELOPMENT, THERE ARE ALSO LIMITS TO THAT AUTHORITY.
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT LEGISLATIVE VERSUS MINISTERIAL.
DO YOU, DOES ANYBODY, CAN ANYBODY TELL ME THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO? I'M GONNA QUIZ YOU GUYS AS WE
DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER WHAT MINISTERIAL IS? KIND OF A PREACHER
I'M TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO MOVE BACK AROUND TO THAT, BUT I CAN'T THINK OF ONE.
UM, SO LEGISLATIVE IS, UH, IS AN ACT THAT CHANGES LAW.
SO, UH,
IT CHANGES THE LAW, IT CHANGES WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO ON THAT PROPERTY.
MINISTERIAL IS SOMETHING WHERE THE REGULATIONS ARE ALREADY SET AND YOU EITHER MEET THOSE REGULATIONS OR YOU DO NOT MEET THOSE REGULATIONS.
YOUR ROLE IS STRICTLY MINISTERIAL.
IT IS, WE AS STAFF HAVE DONE THE REVIEW AND WE'VE TOLD YOU, TO OUR BEST KNOWLEDGE, THIS MEETS THE REGULATIONS.
YOU AS A BODY DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE.
SO WHEN WE GET INTO, UM, SOMETIMES SOME OF THE WEIRDER CONVERSATIONS ABOUT PLATS, AND I THINK THIS GROUP HAS BEEN PRETTY GOOD ABOUT IT, BUT I'VE BEEN IN PLANNING COMMISSIONS WHERE THEY GOT INTO THESE WILD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT PLATS AND WE'RE GOING, LOOK GUYS, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT IT ALL YOU WANT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT MEETS THE REGULATIONS.
AND THAT, THAT HAS BEEN A STRUGGLE AGAIN, IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS, UM, ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS DECISIONS THAT MEANS IS EVERY DECISION THAT YOU GUYS MAKE HAS TO HAVE A CLEAR REASON ABOUT IT.
UH, YOU CAN'T BE ARBITRARY ABOUT IT.
YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, EH, I DON'T LIKE THE GUYS BERMUDA SHORTS.
UM, WE SOMETIMES WE WISH THAT, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CLEAR REASON AND WE WILL KIND OF COME BACK AND TOUCH ON THAT AGAIN.
BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO WORK ON AS A GROUP IS WHEN EMOTION IS MADE, YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME CLEAR FINDINGS.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING ACROSS THE BOARD.
IF YOU EVER GET CHALLENGED ON ANYTHING, IF YOU DIDN'T GIVE A REASON FOR THAT MOTION, THEN THAT BECOMES AN EASIER THING FOR A, FOR AN ATTORNEY TO CHALLENGE IN COURT.
OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT A BIG ISSUE ON A
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DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, BUT IF YOU EVER GET ONE WHERE YOU'VE GOT A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE AND THERE ISN'T A VERY CLEAR FINDING, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE BECAUSE THIS, THIS, AND THIS.SOMETIMES IT'S AS EASY AS, UM, BECAUSE OF WHAT'S IN THE STAFF REPORT.
BECAUSE WHAT WE HEARD TESTIMONY TONIGHT, IT CAN BE THAT SIMPLE.
UM, BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA GO AGAINST WHAT WAS IN THE STAFF REPORT OR AGAINST WHAT YOU HEARD, THEN, THEN THAT BECOMES A MUCH MORE, UM, COMPLICATED TYPE OF MOTION TO MAKE.
BUT YOU JUST, YOU JUST WANT TO BE SUPER CLEAR.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE KIND OF JUST GO, YEP, MOTION TO APPROVE.
OKAY, VOTED DONE AND, UH, WE DID IT FOUR TIMES TONIGHT.
THOSE AREN'T REAL, UM, TOUGH ONES.
THOSE AREN'T GONNA GET CHALLENGED.
IT'S, IT'S NOT GONNA BE AN ISSUE.
BUT SHOULD WE EVER GET ONE THAT DOES GET CHALLENGED, YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU'VE BACKED YOURSELF UP.
SO GIVE GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF HOW IT SHOULD SOUND.
UM, UH, MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE REQUESTED REZONE.
UM, ACCORDING TO THE CRITERIA, THE STAFF REPORT.
THE CRITERIA THAT WERE MET AS READ IN THE STAFF REPORTS AND THE TESTIMONY HEARD BY THE FOLKS TO, LIKE I SAID, IT'S TOUGHER WHEN YOU'RE RECOMMENDING DENIAL.
'CAUSE THEN CHANCES ARE GOOD, WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO IS YOU'RE GONNA USE THE CRITERIA THAT ARE IN THE STAFF REPORT, COME BACK AND SAY, OKAY, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY MET CRITERIA NUMBER THREE, SIX AND EIGHT.
AND YOU CAN ALWAYS REFER BACK TO THE STAFF REPORT AND DON'T EVER FEEL LIKE YOU CAN'T ASK A QUESTION OF STAFF EVEN SITTING AT THE, AT THE DESK.
YOU'RE THERE TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.
AND YOU GUYS HAVE NOTICED, I'M NOT SHY ABOUT JUMPING ON THE MICROPHONE IF I FEEL IT'S NECESSARY.
AND SO HERE'S SOMETHING GOING CROSSWAYS.
I'M GONNA JUMP RIGHT ON THE MICROPHONE.
I'M GONNA SAY, LOOK GUYS, WE NEED A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION HERE.
AGAIN, I HAVEN'T FELT THE REAL NEED TO DO THAT WITH YOUR MOTIONS 'CAUSE THERE JUST HASN'T REALLY BEEN ANYTHING THAT, THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME AS THIS IS GONNA BE A REAL PROBLEM.
NOW THE ONES WHO HAVE THE REAL ISSUES IS CITY COUNCIL BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE GONNA MAKE THE FINAL DECISION ON IF IT WERE, SAY THOSE, LET'S, WE'LL GO BACK TO THOSE VARIANCES THAT YOU GUYS HAD AT THE LAST MEETING.
AND SO WE HAD, AGAIN, I WOULD'VE FAULTED BACK TO THE DEFAULTED TO CRITERIA.
WE HAD, WHAT WAS IT, SIX CRITERIA OR FOUR, FOUR CRITERIA.
SO I WOULD'VE GONE IN AND SAID, IF I WAS MAKING A MOTION TO DENY, I WOULD'VE SAID, OKAY, I BELIEVE IT DOES NOT MEET CRITERIA NUMBER THREE.
AND YOU CAN READ IT OUT IF YOU WANT, BUT YOU COULD JUST SAY NUMBER THREE, WE IT'S IN THE STAFF REPORT.
UM, THAT'S IF YOU WOULD HAVE DENIED THAT, THEN I COULD SEE POSSIBLY MOVING FORWARD THAT THAT COULD GET CHALLENGED IN COURT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY, THERE WAS A PARTICULAR ONE THAT, UM, SO ANYWAY, THERE'S A THOUSAND WAYS YOU CAN DO IT OR YOU CAN JUST SAY PROOF ON AND THEN WE SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
UM, THERE'S, UH, IS, UM, THAT IS BASICALLY WHERE YOU'VE STEPPED BEYOND YOUR BOUNDS AS A GROUP, TRY TO MAKE SOME KIND OF DECISION THAT YOU'RE NOT REALLY AUTHORIZED TO DO.
UM, THERE ARE TAKINGS UH, THERE'S REALLY TWO KIND OF TAKINGS.
THERE'S THE LITERAL TAKINGS THAT WHERE IT'S SAYING, OKAY, WE'VE BASICALLY TAKEN YOUR PROPERTY AWAY FROM YOU WITHOUT COMPENSATION.
OR THERE'S ALSO, UM, THE ONE THAT'S A LITTLE FGI OR THE ONE THAT ENDS UP IN SUPREME COURT WHERE THEY'RE SAYING, WELL, WE CAN NO LONGER DO WITH OUR PROPERTY.
WELL, WE ORIGINALLY WANT TO DO THAT.
AND THERE'S CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHETHER THAT IS HIGHEST AND BEST USE OR WHAT, HOW DID, HOW DO WE DEFINE THAT AS A COURT? IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU'RE AT.
IT'S CALLED A REGULATORY TAKING.
LIKE A GOOD EXAMPLE MIGHT BE IF YOU HAVE A LOT THAT'S BELOW THE MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT IT'S IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA AND THEY WANNA BUILD A HOUSE AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA DENY THEM TO BUILD A HOUSE, JUST 'CAUSE A LOT'S SMALL 'CAUSE IT WAS PLANTED THAT WAY.
RIGHT? 'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT GONNA TAKE AWAY THEIR RIGHTS OF ENJOYMENT OF THEIR PROPERTY OR THEIR RIGHT TO DEVELOP IT IN SOME FORM.
I'M GONNA GO TO AND, AND I'M GONNA LOOK TO JARRIS ON THIS, BUT I, THOSE ARE REALLY TRICKY.
WE HAVE LOTS OF PROPERTY INSIDE THE CITY THAT'S BELOW THE MINIMUM STANDARD, RIGHT? AND SO, BUT IT'S, IT IS NOT A TAKINGS.
IF THE REGULATIONS ARE THE SAME
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AS THEY ARE EVERYWHERE ELSE, ANYTHING ELSE THAT FALLS UNDER THAT CATEGORY STILL HAS THE SAME REGULATIONS.BUT IF THEY CAME IN AND SAID, WE HAVE A REAL HARDSHIP, AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS SAID, NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
SO IF THEY WANTED TO ARGUE A TAKING TO THE COURT, I THINK THEY COULD AT THAT POINT.
BUT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, THERE'S AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE AND THERE'S A LOT OF, IT DEPENDS.
AND, UM, I THINK A BETTER, UM, A BETTER LOOK AT TAKINGS.
THIS IS, WE COME IN AND THERE'S A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY AND THE CITY COMES IN AND SAYS, WE AS A CITY ARE GOING TO REZONE YOUR PROPERTY TO OPEN SPACE RECREATION.
YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ON IT FROM HERE ON OUT.
AND YOU COULD DO COMMERCIAL BEFORE.
THAT WOULD BE A TAKINGS BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'VE TAKEN MY VALUE, MY POTENTIAL VALUE FROM MILLIONS TO ZERO.
THAT WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF REGULATORY TAKINGS.
WE, YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE THAT IF WE SEE ANYBODY HEADED DOWN THAT ROAD.
CHRIS AND I ARE GONNA SCREAM AT
WE'VE HAD, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LOTS OF TAKINGS CLAIMS THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY TAKINGS AND THEY MAY NOT GO ANYWHERE.
BUT I MEAN, WE'VE HAD PEOPLE TRY TO SAY THAT OUR REGULATIONS BECOME A TAKING BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA TELL THEM THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING A CERTAIN WAY, WHICH REALLY ISN'T A TAKING, BUT THEY MAY ARGUE THAT, I MEAN, THEY DON'T HAVE CONTROL OF THEIR PROPERTY ANYMORE.
THAT'S WHAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY WANNA SAY LIKE, IF, IF, IF THERE'S LIKE SAY A FIRE AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO REBUILD, WELL NOW YOU'VE GOT NEW REGULATIONS BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TO UPGRADE TO THE NEWER LAWS.
AND WE'VE HAD PEOPLE TRY TO SAY THAT'S A TAKING, BUT IT'S NOT.
I MEAN IT'S, IT'S ALL WRITTEN OUT.
IT'S ALL APPLIED EQUALLY TO ANYBODY ELSE.
UM, AND SO, YEAH, I MEAN IT GETS REALLY COMPLICATED, BUT LOTS OF PEOPLE THINK THERE WERE TAKINGS WHEN THERE AREN'T.
I, I LIVED IN A CITY IN INDIANA A FEW YEARS BACK THAT WE WATCHED THE CORNER LOT NEAR US, UH, GO THROUGH A, A PRETTY, UM, A PRETTY CONTROVERSIAL REZONE TO COMMERCIALS, LIKE 20 ACRES TO COMMERCIAL.
WENT FROM SINGLE FAMILY TO COMMERCIAL.
UM, CITY COUNCIL SPLIT VOTE VOTED TO REZONE TO COMMERCIAL, WATCHED TO THE CHAGRIN OF MOST OF THE NEIGHBORS.
UM, A UM, IT WAS RIGHT BEFORE ELECTION, SO IT WAS A DUMB MOVE,
SO THEY, THEY, THEY DID WRITE-IN VOTES FOR THREE PEOPLE, WHICH NEVER HAPPENS IN THAT COUNTY.
AND IT WENT THROUGH THOSE THREE PEOPLE.
SO THEY CAME BACK AND THEY HAD THE FOURTH VOTE.
THEY CAME BACK A MONTH AFTER THESE FOLKS TOOK THE, TOOK THEIR SEATS.
THEY RAN ON THE, THE PLATFORM THAT THEY WERE GONNA CHANGE THAT BACK.
AND THEY DID SUED TAKINGS BECAUSE THEY SAID, NO, YOU CAN'T JUST GO FROM THIS COMMERCIAL, UM, DEVELOPMENT BACK TO SINGLE FAMILY BECAUSE YOU'VE, YOU'VE TAKEN THE VALUE THAT THEY HAD BUILT INTO THAT AND THAT THEY WERE EXPECTING AND YOU'RE GONNA BANKRUPT A, A COMPANY BY DOING THAT.
AND UM, AND THE COMPANY SAID, AND AS SOON AS THEY STARTED EVEN TALKING ABOUT IT, SO I, I DIDN'T WORK FOR THAT CITY, OUR FRIENDS WITH THE STAFF THAT WORKED THERE, I WAS LIKE, THIS IS EXACTLY HOW TO REONE BY, BY LAWSUIT.
SO YOU GOTTA TELL YOUR, TELL YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS DON'T DO THIS.
SO THEY, THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL AT REZONING IT, BUT THEY HAD TO PAY A PENALTY.
THEY WENT TO COURT, THEY MADE 'EM PUT, THEY WENT COURT AND THE JUDGE MADE HIM REZONE IT BACK, WHICH WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO WITH THAT.
AND I DIDN'T LIKE IT 'CAUSE I LIVED NEARBY AND I DID NOT WANT THAT DEVELOPED.
THAT SAID, AFTER THE DEVELOPMENT HAPPENED, I KIND OF LIKED IT.
AND, UH,
IT'S, YOU KNOW WHAT, IT'S GREAT TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TABLE ONCE 'CAUSE YOU GET TO, ALRIGHT, LET'S KEEP GOING.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S A PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS THAT IS AT THE HEART OF WHAT YOU GUYS DO.
THERE IS A DUE PROCESS THAT EVERYBODY GETS.
EVERYBODY HAS TO BE AFFORDED THAT PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS AS PART OF, OF WHAT HAPPENED.
SO EVERYBODY HAS TO BE TREATED AND THEN THAT VESTED, RIGHT? SO LIKE WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH THE, THE DEVELOPMENT THAT HAPPENED IN, ONCE THEY CAME FORWARD AND THEY DID, THEY MADE AN APPLICATION FOR THIS.
THERE WAS A VESTED RIGHT FORWARD.
YOU GO AND CHANGE THE RULES ON ME AFTERWARDS, UHUH, I GET TO DO WHAT I WAS SIGNED UP TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S A LIMIT ON, UH, THIS IS KIND OF AN OUT, AN OUTLIER.
MANUFACTURED HOUSING FOR SOME REASON IS REGULATED AT A FEDERAL LEVEL.
SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MANUFACTURED HOUSING AND, UH, MOBILE.
IT PROBABLY DIDN'T KNOW THERE'S A DATE CUTOFF.
I THINK IT'S LIKE 1976 OR YES, 76 OR 77.
AFTER THAT IT'S MANUFACTURED HOUSING AND THE REGULATIONS
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ARE DIFFERENT.SO WE DON'T, AS A CITY HAVE, WE HAVE VERY LIMITED AUTHORITY WORKERS.
NOW WE CAN TELL 'EM WHERE TO PUT 'EM.
BUT WE CAN'T TELL 'EM HOW TO, AND THEN THERE'S OUR LUPA.
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT OUR LUPA IS? YOU, DO YOU WANNA TELL 'EM WHAT OUR LOOP IS? I DON'T.
IT'S A, IT'S A ROLE THAT PROTECTS, UH, CHURCHES OR RELIGIOUS FACILITIES.
DOES RELIGIOUS LAND USE AND INSTITUTIONALIZED PERSONS? NO, I DON'T.
I HAD TO GO BACK AND LOOK IT UP.
'CAUSE I KNEW IT WAS LIKE RELIGIOUS LAND USE SOMETHING, SOMETHING.
UM, BUT UM, THAT, WHAT THAT MEANS FOR US AS A CITY, IT REALLY WAS ORIGINALLY THERE WERE TWO THINGS THAT THAT ACT WAS, UH, DESIGNED TO DO.
ONE WAS TO PROTECT PEOPLE'S RIGHTS WHEN THEY'RE IN PRISON AS THE INSTITUTIONALIZED PERSONS ACT.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S RELIGIOUS LAND USE.
AND THAT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT CHURCHES DON'T GET DISCRIMINATED AGAINST OR FOR THAT THEY GET TREATED LIKE ANYBODY ELSE THAT'S IN A SIMILAR ACT.
SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS WHEN WE GO THROUGH AND WE HAVE TO MAKE DETERMINATIONS ON DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN A, WE SAY, OKAY, THIS CHURCH GETS TO PUT UP A SIGN, BUT THIS, UM, BANQUET HALT DOES NOT, THEY OPERATE THE SAME.
THEY SHOULD BE TREATED EXACTLY THE SAME UNDER OUR LUPA.
YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOUR CODE'S ALL SURE THAT OURS DO, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT OURS DON'T.
WE HAVEN'T REALLY DONE A CLEAR, WHEN WE'RE DOING THE UPDATE THIS COMING YEAR, WE WILL BE AUDITING AS WELL TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY, BUT BUT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DENY A CHURCH, UH, PERMISSION TO MOVE FORWARD IF THERE'S A LEGAL REASON ALREADY IN THE CODE ABOUT SAID TRAFFIC FLOW OR CHURCHES GET TREATED LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S.
I KNOW, I KNOW IF A CHURCH PROPERTY THAT WENT VACANT IN THE NEXT GROUP TRIED TO WORK THAT PROPERTY AS A NEW CHURCH WAS DENIED AND THERE WERE LEGITIMATE REASONS, BUT IT WAS HARD TO EXPLAIN.
IF THERE WAS A CODE CHANGE, THEN YEAH, WHEN YOU SWITCH THINGS YEAH, THE NEW CODE CLICKS IN.
SO, UM, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YEAH, YOU GET TREATED LIKE ANYONE ELSE.
IT WAS A HARD PROPERTY REUSED ANY OTHER WAY, BUT, BUT IT, IT WAS REALLY, IT WAS REALLY, WE DIDN'T WANT TO, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE AS A COUNTRY THAT RELIGIOUS USES DID NOT GET DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.
BUT I HAVE SEEN IN MY CAREER, I'VE SEEN CHURCHES GET CR DISCRIMINATED THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
SO YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO GET THAT EITHER.
ANY OTHER USE THAT WOULD HAVE A SIMILAR IN ALL RELIGIONS THE SAME, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO I USE THE WORD CHURCH IS AMBIGUOUS.
LIKE, OKAY, UM, YOU GUYS WON'T REALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT.
DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION, SIR? WHAT YEAR WAS THAT PASSED? DO YOU KNOW? A THOUSAND.
SO WE HAVE SOME DIFFERENT TYPES OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT REGULATION.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S UM, TWO LARGE BASIC CATEGORIES.
ONE IS SORT OF VISION PLANNING AND THE ADOPTED EARLIER THIS YEAR, THE BIG COMPREHENSIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT WE HAD TO WAKE UP GUYS COME ON, GOT HALF AN HOUR LEFT.
SO WE HAVE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE STRATEGIC PLAN, ANY KIND OF SMALL AREA PLANS WHERE WE FOCUS IN ON, UH, LIKE THE BAYWAY QUARTER PLAN THAT WE DID LAST YEAR, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THOSE ARE MORE OF THAT SORT OF VISION.
THIS IS A GUIDE TO WHERE WE'RE GOING IN THE FUTURE IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT AND IN TERMS OF GROWTH, THAT SORT OF THING.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE MORE REGULATORY TYPE TYPE TOOLS, UH, TO GUIDE DEVELOPMENT, TO REGULATE DEVELOPMENT.
UH, I ONE GUESS WHAT'S A REGULATORY
A ZONING, THE ZONING CODE ITSELF.
SO THE ZONING CODE ITSELF WOULD COUNT.
UM, WE HAVE REACTIVE APPROACHES WHICH ARE LIKE, THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAPPEN SORT OF AFTER THE FACT.
WE HAVE ZONING, UH, CODE, SUBDIVISION APPROVAL.
AND THEN THERE ARE SOME OTHER REGULATIONS LIKE FLOODPLAIN RIGHTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE PROACTIVE APPROACHES.
AND THESE AREN'T, THESE ARE REGULATORY TOOLS, BUT THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT CODE NECESSARILY.
UM, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS THAT'S, WE'RE TRYING TO PLAN FOR THE FUTURE.
ANY KIND OF PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS, SOMETIMES THAT'S IN THE FORM OF A PUD OR A DEVELOPMENT, THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT WE'RE TRYING TO PLAN, UM, AND REGULATE WHAT HAPPENS.
NOT REGULATE, BUT GUIDE, GUIDE, FORM, INCENTIVIZE.
WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING OUR ARMS LIKE THIS AND WE'VE GONE FROM THIS TO THIS.
OKAY GUYS, WE WANT STAY WITHIN.
WHEN YOU DO REACTIVE APPROACHES FOR LIKE, LIKE LET'S SAY SUBDIVISION APPROVALS, YOU REACT TO WHAT THEY'RE, THAT'S WHEN A LOT OF THINGS THAT COME IN, COME THROUGH AND YOU SAY, UH, YOU HAVE TO MEET THIS STANDARD AND STANDARD.
IT'S LIKE A FEW WEEKS AGO WHEN THEY WANTED TO BUILD SOMETHING
[00:30:01]
AND WE SAID, WELL YOU HAVE TO DO THE LANDSCAPING AND THOSE THINGS.THAT'S YOUR REACTIVE, THE REACTIVE PART IS THE FACT THAT WE'VE ALREADY SET THE RULES.
AND SO THEN WE HAVE TO KIND OF GUIDE THEM TO FIT IN IT.
IT'S, IT'S A, AT THE VERY LEAST, REACTIVE ON OUR PART.
WE HAVE TO APPROVE THOSE THINGS.
THEN WE HAVE TO HELP THEM GET ONLINE WITH ALL THE, WITH ALL THE REGULATIONS THAT ARE, BUT IT WON'T STOP THEM FROM, UH, LIKE PERMITTING AT THAT POINT OR ANYTHING THAT THEY'RE MOVING? NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF LIKE CHANGES TO THE REGULATIONS.
IT COULD MEAN, IT COULD MEAN CHANGES IN ZONING.
SO IT COULD BE WE'RE REACTING TO SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN THE COMMUNITY WHERE WE'RE SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE MAKING A CHANGE TO THE MAP HERE BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW NOW THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE.
OR EVEN CHANGES THE REGULATIONS THEMSELVES BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT, THAT CHANGE.
UM, AND THEN OF COURSE WE REALLY IDEALLY WOULD WANT TO SEE CONFORMITY BETWEEN THE PLANS AND THEN THE REGULATIONS THEMSELVES.
SO WE DID THE COMP PLAN EARLIER THIS YEAR, WHILE IT'S STILL KIND OF SQUEAKY CLEAN.
WE'RE GOING TO REDO THE, THE ZONING CODE AND ALL THE OTHER CODES THAT WENT INTO THE UNIFIED, UH, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
AND WE'RE GONNA MAKE SURE THAT THOSE MATCH UP.
AND, AND IN THE PAST THERE'S ALWAYS CAN SAY ALWAYS THERE HAS OFTEN BEEN A DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE, THE TWO DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS SETS OF, OKAY, SO WHY DO WE REGULATE DEVELOPMENT? WE HAVE SOME GOALS AND WE'VE LAID THOSE GOALS OUT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND WE WANT MAKE SURE THAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS IMPLEMENTED.
WE USE IT, RIGHT? SPEND TWO YEARS AND $400,000 CREATING THIS DOCUMENT IF WE DON'T USE IT.
SO IN ORDER TO GET THERE, WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO PUSH IT ALONG.
IN THE PAST, AGAIN, I'VE BEEN A PLANNER FOR 25 YEARS AND IN THE PAST, UM, THAT WAS ONE OF OUR GREAT LAMENTS WAS WE SPENT TWO YEARS WRITING THIS AND THEN IT SITS ON THE SHELF AND IT JUST GATHER DUST.
IT DOESN'T DO ANYBODY ANY GOOD IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.
I THINK, UM, I KNOW ME AS A PROFESSIONAL AND OTHERS THAT I KNOW AS, AS PROFESSIONAL PLANNERS HAVE REALLY MADE THAT EXTRA EFFORT TO SAY, WE'VE GOT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WE NEED TO BE REFERRING TO IT, REFERRING TO IT, USING IT, UM, AND CHANGING IT IF NEEDED.
IF WE SEE SOMETHING IN IT THAT DOESN'T MATTER.
THAT DOESN'T FOR YOUR GROWTH AND PROGRESS.
AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS REALLY BEEN, UM, LIKE I SAID OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, MAINLY WE'RE REALLY PUSHING IT TO SAY, OKAY, THIS SHOULD BE AT THE FOREFRONT OF EVERY CONVERSATION YOU AND THE GROUP HAVE.
UM, WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO REDUCE LAND USE CONFLICTS.
WE WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WHO'S LOCATED NEXT TO EACH OTHER IS PLAYING NICE.
UM, AND THEN PUBLIC FACILITIES OVER TIME, WE GOTTA MAKE SURE WE GOT WATER, WE GOT SEWER, WE GOT ROADS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND WILL ALLOW US TO GROW AND THEN PROMOTE QUALITY OF LIFE.
UM, THAT'S, WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE HAPPY WITH WHERE THEY LIVE AND WHERE THEY WORK AND, AND TO BE HERE, WE WANT TO ATTRACT PEOPLE AND WE WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE.
HOW DO WE DO THAT? SO THE BIG ONE FOR US, WE HAVE THAT UNIFIED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
AGAIN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT THAT IS? AND THEN WE DO HAVE DEVELOPER AGREEMENTS THAT HAPPEN NOW AND THEN, UM, ACTUALLY THEY HAPPEN MORE THAN THE COMPANY.
UM, THAT IS A PRIVATE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE, UH, AND A DEVELOPER OF A PIECE OF LAND.
AND IT COULD BE SPECIFIC TO TAXES, UM, TAX ABATEMENTS OR ANY KIND OF SPECIAL DEALS ON MONEY.
IT COULD HAVE TO DO WITH SPECIAL KINDS OF FINANCING FOR INFRASTRUCTURE.
IT COULD BE, UM, NOW THAT WE ARE NO LONGER ABLE TO REGULATE, UM, DESIGN LIKE ARCHITECTURE AND UH, BUILDING MATERIALS.
WE USED TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AS A CITY.
WE CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE AFTER, IS THAT 2018 OR 1919? SO THAT CHANGED THE GAME FOR US THERE.
BUT IF A DEVELOPER COMES FORWARD AND SAYS, LOOK, IN RETURN FOR THESE OTHER THINGS, TAX, TAX CUTS OR WHATEVER, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND WE WILL COMMIT TO YOU THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS DESIGN.
WE'RE GONNA DO THESE AMENITIES AND WE'RE GONNA DO THIS TYPE OF, UH, ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES AND WE'RE GONNA DO ALL BRICK ON OUR HOUSES.
WE'RE GONNA DO AN EXTRA POND AND TWO BUCKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN ANY OTHER SITUATION.
AS LONG AS THEY MEET THE, THE BARE MINIMUM OF REGULATIONS.
WE HAVE DEVELOPER AGREEMENT WITH THEM.
WE HAVE THE LEGAL MEANS TO SAY, NO, NO, NO, LOOK RIGHT HERE.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, HOUSTON, THE CITY OF HOUSTON IS KNOWN AS NOT HAVING ZONING.
SOME OF YOU GUYS, HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT YEAH, THEY DON'T HAVE ZONING, BUT THEY HAVE DEVELOPER AGREEMENTS UP TO WAZOO.
[00:35:01]
AND IF YOU WANT TO SAY IT'S NOT REGULATED, THAT WOULD NOT BE, THAT'S FATHER.PEOPLE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.
SO I'VE HAD PEOPLE WHO WERE ANTI PLANNING COME TO ME AND SAY, WELL, HOUSTON DOESN'T HAVE ANY ZONING.
WE SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY ZONING EITHER.
UM, OKAY, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME RESPONSIBILITIES OF THIS COMMISSION.
WHAT DO YOU DO? UH, YOU DEVELOP AND UPDATE THE COMP PLAN.
WE DID BETTER IMPLEMENT LAND USE PATTERNS.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE COMING UP VERY SOON IS CHRIS AND I HAVE STARTED LOOKING AT THE LAND USE MAP THAT WAS JUST DONE.
AND WE ARE NOTICING, UM, DISCONNECTS BETWEEN THAT AND THE ZONING MAP SPECIFICALLY WHERE THERE WERE BIG ANNEXATIONS DONE FIVE YEARS AGO OR WHATEVER.
AND THAT ANNEXATION IS STILL GREEN.
WE SAW FOUR OF THEM TONIGHT THAT WERE ALL GREEN WHEN THEY STARTED AND WE CHANGED THEM.
WELL, WE KNOW AT LEAST ROUGHLY WHAT SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO.
WHAT, WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE DEVELOP INTO IS PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SO SHOULD WE WAIT FOR THE PROPERTY OWNERS TO COME IN AND REZONE THOSE PROPERTIES? WHICH SHOULD WE GO IN AND TAKE A REAL HARD LOOK AT IT, DO A LITTLE MORE DEEP DIVE AND SAY THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO IMPLEMENT SOME OF THOSE LAND USE PATTERNS FROM THE COMP PLAN TO SAY, THIS IS NO LONGER GREEN.
WE'RE GONNA HELP YOU LANDOWNER TO DO SOMETHING MORE PRODUCTIVE WITH YOUR PROPERTY.
NOW IF THEY, IF THEY, UH, ARE OPPOSED TO THAT, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GONNA WORK WITH IT.
BUT THAT IS SOMETHING YOU GUYS ARE GONNA SEE FROM STAFF IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS.
WE'RE GONNA TAKE A COUPLE OF THE BIG GREEN LAUNCHES ON THAT AND WE'RE GONNA KIND OF SEE IF WE CAN'T WORK THROUGH WHAT THAT SHOULD REALLY LOOK LIKE.
BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING, WE UNDERSTAND, UM, FROM, YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE COMING INTO THIS BUILDING THAT THERE ARE CURRENT DEVELOPMENT PRESSURES ON THOSE PROPERTIES AND THEY'RE LIKE, WELL WE WANNA DO THIS AND WE WANNA DO THIS AND THIS WANTS TO DO THIS.
AND WE GO, HOLD ON, LET'S TALK, TALK ABOUT IT COHESIVELY AS THIS ENTIRE AREA.
MAYBE IT'S JUST ONE LITTLE SQUARE ON A SECTION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT WHEN WE PIECEMEAL IT, IT JUST DOESN'T COME OUT AS GOOD.
SO TALK ABOUT IT AS A WHOLE, KINDA LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH CEDAR BATTLE LYNCHBURG FROM HOME DEPOT GOING OUT.
ALL THAT IS, EVEN THOUGH IT'S IN USE IS IS WIDELY GREEN.
AND THEY'RE, AND SO AGAIN, THEY'RE COMING IN AND THEY'RE PIECEMEALING THE, THEY'RE NEW ZONING, WHATEVER THAT IS.
AND WE JUST, WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD WAY TO DIRECT THAT.
BUT IF WE WERE THE ONES, THE CITY WAS THE ONE INITIATING THAT, THOSE REZONES BASED ON WHAT THE PROPERTY OWNERS HOPEFULLY WANT, THAT WILL BE THE IDEA OF DOING IT.
UM, THEN I THINK WE'RE GOING TO LONG TERM GET A BETTER, GET A BETTER RESULT.
SO WOULD THAT CHANGE THE TAXES FOR THE LANDOWNER AND OR THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY TAXES WILL NOT CHANGE UNLESS THERE'S A USE CHANGE.
SO IF IT JUST CHANGES THE ZONING CHANGE.
OKAY, THE, UM, AS FAR AS ASSESSED VALUE OR LIKE PERCEIVED VALUE THAT, THAT, SO WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS NOT TO HARM OUR PUBLIC.
IF ANYTHING, WE'RE GONNA MAKE THE VALUE GO UP.
YEAH, THAT'LL, THAT'LL BE THE, THE GOAL FROM STAFF FEES.
WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE A, UM, TAKE A PIECE OF PRIME COMMERCIAL LAND AND SAY NO, THIS NOW THIS IS LOW DENSITY WRITTEN MAKES SENSE.
AND IT WOULD REDUCE THE VALUE OF THE 'CAUSE.
IT WAS LIKE THAT CEDAR BY LYNCHBURG IS ONE OF THOSE.
IT CAN'T DECIDE WHICH WAY IT WANTS TO GO.
IT REALLY HASN'T GELLED TO BE CLEAR, I'M NOT TOUCHING THAT ONE.
THERE'S TOO MANY VARIABLES AND WE'VE ALREADY SEEN SOME OF THE S**T THAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY, I DIDN'T GET INVOLVED IN THAT AND I'M JUST NOT INTERESTED IN DOING, I'M SO SORRY EVERYONE.
YOU STAYING YOU APPRECIATE USEFUL SQUEEZE MY, YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.
'CAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE, YOU CAN GO OUT THAT WAY IF YOU WANT.
DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE THE PROPERTY.
WELL, I MEAN THEY ARE, THEY ARE IN, IN A, IN AN ODD ZONE BECAUSE YOU, YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ENLARGE YOUR HOUSE OR YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN EXPAND YOUR BUSINESS.
SO LET'S, I'M GONNA KEEP MOVING ON HERE.
UM, ONE OF YOUR JOBS IS TO MONITOR THE CURRENT ZONING ORDINANCE.
IF YOU GUYS SEE THINGS THAT YOU'RE NOT SURE ABOUT, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT EITHER DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ANYMORE OR DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME OR MAYBE THERE'S A DIFFERENT WAY TO GO ABOUT THIS.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS ARE EMPOWERED TO BRING TO STAFF AND SAY, CAN YOU DO SOME MORE RESEARCH ON THIS? I'D REALLY LIKE TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THIS.
YEAH, YOU SAY DO NOT TOUCH A VISOR,
[00:40:01]
YOU CAN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON SOME OF THOSE ZONING CHANGES.UH, AGAIN, YOU'RE GONNA MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COUNCIL ON DIFFERENT ZONING CHANGES, BUT THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT, UM, YOU APPROVE SUBDIVISIONS.
REMEMBER THAT'S ONE OF THOSE WHAT TYPE OF DECISION? MINISTERIAL.
UM, THAT'S ONE OF THOSE MINISTERIAL DUTIES THAT YOU GUYS DO.
IT'S UM, UM, SO THE OTHER PART OF THAT TOO IS WHAT I'VE SEEN DONE IN, IN OTHER, IN OTHER STATES IS THEY'LL, UH, ENABLE STAFF TO MAKE ALL THE APPROVALS FOR SUBDIVISION PLAS.
BECAUSE AGAIN, BEING A MINISTERIAL DUTY, THERE'S NOT REALLY ANYTHING FOR YOU GUYS TO DO OTHER THAN RUBBER STAMP IT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GONNA BRING IT TO YOU UNLESS IT'S READY, NOT READY.
WE HOLD IT BACK AND SOMETIMES THESE GET HOLD BACK FOR THREE OR FOUR MONTHS.
SO ONCE IT'S READY, WE BRING IT TO YOU GUYS.
IF IT'S IN FRONT OF YOU, IT'S READY TO BE.
IT'S KIND OF A WASTE OF TIME IN THE LONG RANGE.
UM, SO AGAIN, WE'VE SEEN OTHER CITIES, UH, THERE STATES WHERE THAT IS STAFF JUST TAKES CARE OF THAT.
AND THEN THEY PROVIDE A REPORT UNSAFE.
WE'LL SEE, WE MIGHT GO TO STATE LEGISLATION AND SEE IF THAT'S SOMETHING WE CHANGE, BUT IT'S, IT DOESN'T TAKE UP A LOT OF OUR TIME.
UM, YOU INTERFACE WITH THE PUBLIC.
SO A LOT OF TIMES THIS IS THE FIRST PLACE THEY GET A, A NEIGHBOR GETS A LETTER, THERE'S A REZONE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, WHAT DO I DO? GO TO THIS P AND Z MEETING.
AND THAT IS THEIR FIRST INTERACTION WITH GOVERNMENT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM THIS PROJECT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.
AND SO THEY GET TO HEAR ABOUT THAT INFORMATION.
UM, AND BUT THEY ALSO, AGAIN, THEY GET TO INTERFACE.
DO YOU SEE THEM? YOU TALK TO THEM, HEAR FROM THEM, AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.
AND THEN, UH, THERE'S ALSO AN, AN ARM OF THIS THAT YOU KIND OF COORDINATE WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES.
AND NOT TO GET INTO TOO MUCH OF THAT, BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU DO THAT DOVETAIL WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ON IN A VERY LARGE WAY.
UM, AND THEN ENCOURAGE AND MONITOR THAT VISUAL IMAGE.
SO LET'S GO BACK TO THOSE VARIANCES FROM LAST TIME.
THERE WAS AN, UH, AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE THAT THEY HAD, THEY HAD A HARDSHIP FOR THOSE VARIANCES.
STAFF ARGUE THAT THEY, THEY DID NOT.
BUT WE ALSO LOOKED AT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF WHAT IS THE VALUE OF, IS THERE A VISUAL VALUE TO THAT? IS THERE A CHARACTER VALUE TO THAT? IT JUST DIDN'T SEEM WORTH IT TO STAFF TO GO THAT EXTRA LENGTH FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY CREATED THEIR OWN HARDSHIP AND THEY UM, THERE WAS NO VISUAL CHARACTER TO WHAT THEY WERE ASKING TO DO TO GO NICE DOLLAR GENERAL.
THERE IS NO, THERE IS NO NICE DOLLAR.
IT'S STILL JUST A DOLLAR GENERAL.
I'M NOT GONNA BASH DOLLAR GENERAL JUST TO SAY THEY HAVE THEIR OWN THING AND THEY DON'T, DON'T DO MUCH.
IS IT A METAL BUILDING? NO, BUT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT.
IT AIN'T THE TAJ MAHAL BACK TO COHES COHESIVENESS.
THAT'S WHY I WORKED TO VOTE AGAINST IT BECAUSE I FELT LIKE THEY'RE SELLING HOMES FOR 400 TO $450,000 ACROSS THE STREET.
AND I'M COMING OUT MY BRAND NEW BEAUTIFUL HOME AND I'M LOOKING AT THIS CRAP DEVELOPMENT.
LIKE I JUST FELT LIKE IT WAS, IT'S SUCH A TERRIBLE THING TO DO TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE OF THE CITY WHO HAVE INVESTED THEIR MONEY TO LIVE THERE THINKING THEY'RE LIVING IN A NICE PART OF TOWN.
AND I DON'T WANNA SPEND TOO MUCH IN THOSE CASES WHEN IT CHECKS ALL THE BOXES, WE CAN'T NOT APPROVE IT.
IF IT CHECKS ALL THE BOXES WE GAVE YOU THE CHECK BOX ON UNCHECKED BOX ON THAT ONE
BUT, BUT WHAT IT REALLY IS IS UP TO YOU.
'CAUSE YOU GUYS MAKE THAT DECISION.
I GIVE YOU MY BEST, UM, EXPERIENCE AND ADVICE AND THEN YOU GUYS MAKE THE CALL AND I GO, HEY, THAT'S YOUR DECISION.
THERE WAS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A CAR WASH WENT IN ON BAKER ROAD, REAL NEAR COUNTRY CLUB AND THE RESIDENTS WERE AGAINST HAVING THE CAR WASH.
BUT IT, IT WAS EVENTUALLY APPROVED WITH A LOT OF FAN.
BUT IT, SO, BUT IT'S IT, BUT LET'S STAY FOCUSED ON WHAT THE BULLET POINT IS, IS REALLY ABOUT ENCOURAGING AND MONITORING VISUALLY IMAGE.
SO IF THAT WAS ALLOWED BY THE ZONING, THAT USE WAS ALLOWED BY THE ZONING, THERE WASN'T ANYTHING YOU COULD DO.
RIGHT? SO THAT DOESN'T REALLY FALL INTO THIS, RIGHT? OTHER THAN WHAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF, UH, THE REZONE ITSELF.
WHENEVER THAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED, YOU COULD HAVE LOOKED AT IT AND SAID, UH, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THAT WAS AT THE, UH, THE, THE GATEWAY TO THE CITY YOU GOT AS A, A GAS STATION AND A CAR WASH AND I DON'T KNOW, SOMETHING ELSE THAT JUST KIND OF YEAH.
AND SO YOU COULD NOW I'M, I'M GONNA SAY THIS CAREFULLY.
REZONES ARE LARGELY SUBJECTIVE.
[00:45:01]
THERE'S A LOT OF THOSE CRITERIA THAT ARE IN THERE THAT ARE PRETTY SUBJECTIVE.UNLESS, UNLESS, UM, PROPERTY OWNER IS REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT IT.
PROBABLY NOT GONNA CHALLENGE IT TOO.
SOME WILL IF THEY GOT DEEP POCKETS.
UM, BUT IF YOU HAD SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND PART OF YOUR INTERNAL CRITERIA WAS THIS JUST ISN'T WHAT I WANT TO SEE AT THE GATEWAY IN MY CITY IN MY EXAMPLE.
BUT THAT'S ABSOLUTELY, THAT'S A SUBJECTIVE PIECE OF IT.
IS PART OF THE IS IS THIS WHAT I WANT TO SEE IN MY COMMUNITY? IS THIS WHAT I WANT TO FIRST THING TO SEE IN MY COMMUNITY? WHEN YOU, THOSE CAN ALWAYS BE PART OF YOUR, YOUR DECISION MAKING.
NOW YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A MOTION.
I WOULD MO I WOULD MAKE THAT MOTION DEPENDENT ON THE CRITERIA.
BUT THOSE, SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD BE TIED INTO THAT CRITERIA IN A, I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THAT'S WHERE BAYTOWN HAS FALTERED SO MUCH IS IN THE AESTHETIC APPEAL.
I FEEL LIKE WE VISUAL IT'S NOT THERE.
AND AGAIN, WHEN STATE TOOK AWAY OUR ABILITY TO REGULATE BUILDING MATERIALS, IT TOOK AWAY.
AND CITIES ARE AFRAID TO TEST THAT.
WE, SO WHEN YOU DRIVE TO OTHER CITIES LIKE PEARL LAND, SUGARLAND, RICHMOND, AND THEY, IT'S REALLY BEAUTIFUL WHEN YOU DRIVE DOWN THE STREETS.
ARE THOSE, IS THAT DONE BY ZONING? THAT'S DONE BY ZONING.
SO HOW CAN WE ZONE TO VISUAL? WELL WE, THE LAST TIME WE VOTED AGAINST IT, IT'S EITHER DONE BY, SO NOW WE HAVE TO SAY I VOTE AGAINST THE, THE, THE METAL BUILDING WITH THE SLOPPINESS ACROSS FROM THE $500,000 HOMES BECAUSE OF WHAT? CAN'T NOT FOR THAT REASON.
YOU HAVE TO BE, YOU HAVE TO BE SORT OF TIE IT BACK TO TIE IT BACK TO THE CRITERIA, ACTUAL CRITERIA, WHICH IS A CHALLENGE.
AGAIN, WE USED TO BE ABLE TO REGULATE THOSE BUILDING MATERIALS AND THAT SORT OF THING THAT I'M, I'M HOPEFUL THAT MAYBE THE STATE LEGISLATION WILL COME AROUND.
LEGISLATURE WILL COME AROUND AROUND AND STATE IS A NATIONAL VOTER REGISTRATION DAY.
SPEAKING OF STATE LEGISLATION SAYING I GOT ANOTHER 10 MINUTES.
CAN YOU STAY FOCUSED FOR 10 MORE MINUTES? YES.
ALRIGHT, TYPICAL APPLICATIONS.
WHAT DO YOU GUYS SAY? I MEAN, I KIND OF BOUNCED THROUGH THESE PRETTY, UM, COMP PLAN AMENDMENTS.
ANY CHANGES, MAP OR TEXT, SPECIAL USE PERMITS.
SOME OF, UH, HOPEFULLY HAS EVERYBODY HERE SEEN A SPECIAL USE PERMIT? HAVE WE HAD DONE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT SINCE YOU'VE BEEN HERE? YES.
BASICALLY OPERATES LIKE A, LIKE A REZONE, BUT IT IS A USE THAT IS MORE INTENSE AND NEEDS A LITTLE SPECIAL ON THE WAY.
YES, IT HAS SOME SPECIAL, UM, CONDITIONS AROUND IT.
THAT MEANS WE WANNA TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT IT AND YOU AS A BOARD LOOK AT IT FOLLOWS THE, THE REZONE PROCESS.
'CAUSE IT GOES TO YOU AND THEN IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL FOR, UM, SUBDIVISION PLAT.
OF COURSE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
UM, WHEN NEW STOP SIGNS COME IN, YOU GUYS GET TO VIEW THOSE IN IMPROVEMENT.
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE WEIRD THAT DUMB ENGINEERING
BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, THOSE COME TO YOU GUYS FOR APPROVAL.
SIGNS, NOT LIGHTS, LIGHTS, LIGHTS, TRAFFIC LIGHTS, SIGNS, ANY KIND OF TRAFFIC CONTROL.
UM, COMING OUTTA THE, I THINK IF THERE WAS A SAY YOU, YOU LIVED ON A STREET THAT THE SPEED LIMIT WENT FROM 40 TO 30.
I THINK YOU GUYS APPROVED THAT TOO.
YOU WOULD HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S OTHER CODE CHANGES.
SOMEONE HAS TO UM, I WOULD NORMALLY LEAVE THAT TO STAFF, BUT, UH, OTHER CODE CHANGES.
SO IF YOU, LET'S SEE, A YEAR OR SO AGO WE SAW, UM, ENGINEERING BROUGHT IN CHANGES TO THE STREET CROSS SECTIONS.
YOU GUYS DON'T APPROVE THOSE AT THE TAIL END, BUT IT IS A CHANGE TO CODE AFFECTS WHAT YOU GUYS DO.
SO THEY BROUGHT THAT TO YOU AS A COURTESY TO SAY THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PRESENT TO YOU, THIS IS GONNA CITY COUNCIL.
UM, APPEALS OF P AND Z DECISIONS.
SO IF I WASN'T HAPPY WITH A P AND ZI SAY I JUST CAME AWAY FROM P AND Z AS AN APPLICANT, BUT I'M NOT HAPPY WITH MY DECISION.
ATTORNEY COUNCIL BACK TO US, BACK TO THE COMMISSION.
WHY WOULD I APPEAL BACK TO THE SAME BOARD? THAT SEEMS SILLY TO, SOUNDS VERY SILLY TO ME AS WELL.
SO I THINK WE'RE EASILY PERSUADED.
[00:50:02]
SO WE'RE GONNA GO BACK TO, IT DEPENDS, UM, PLA DECISIONS IT SAYS RIGHT IN OUR CODE.YOU CAN APPEAL THAT BACK TO CITY CAPTAIN.
SO I DON'T LIKE ANYTHING BEING APPEALABLE TO CITY COUNCIL CODE SAYS IT CAN.
UM, WHAT ABOUT ETJ VARIANCES? I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING SPECIFIC, BUT I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN THOSE WOULD ALSO GO TO CITY COUNCIL.
UM, THEN THE THE, THE REST IS A TRICK QUESTION.
ALL OTHER P AND C DECISIONS THAT THEY'RE JUST RECOMMENDATIONS, THERE'S NOTHING TO IT.
SO THEY, THE APPEAL WOULD BE CITY COUNCIL, WE DON'T LIKE P AND C'S DECISION.
PLEASE MAKE YOUR DECISION DIFFERENTLY.
THEY'VE DONE AND CITY COUNCIL HAS, HAS GONE THE OTHER DIRECTION.
STANDARD HOLD ON BEFORE YOU MOVE ON FROM THERE.
DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE CONSEQUENCE OF A DENIAL FROM PT IS FOR CITY COUNCIL? IS THAT LATER ON CONSEQUENCES ABOUT THE TWO THIRDS? UH, GO AHEAD.
OKAY, SO WHEN YOU GUYS MAKE A DECISION, UM, IF YOU DECIDE TO DENY A PROJECT OUT OF EZ, IT IS JUST A RECOMMENDATION.
BUT THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE DENIAL MEANS THAT THERE, THERE IS A REQUIREMENT OF TWO THIRDS OF A VOTE REQUIRED BY CITY COUNCIL.
SO SET A MAJORITY INSTEAD OF MAJORITY IT NOW GOES UP TO A HIGHER PERCENTAGE, RIGHT? SO IT'S NOT TWO THIRDS OF THE QUORUM, IT'S THERE, IT'S TWO THIRDS OF THE FULL COUNCIL.
I THINK IT'S TWO THIRDS HAVE TO HAVE THE YESES OF TWO THIRDS OF COUNCIL REGARDLESS OF QUORUM.
OKAY, YOU GO, THERE'S LOTS OF LITTLE NUANCES LIKE THAT, UM, WITHIN WHERE WHAT I DIDN'T REALLY WANNA GET THAT, THAT ONE COMES UP, BUT OTHERWISE I, I DIDN'T WANT TO KINDA GET INTO TOO MUCH OF THAT DETAIL.
'CAUSE WE CAN GET THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT ONE UP.
SO LET'S THINK ABOUT, UH, STANDARDS OF CONDUCT WHEN YOU'RE PART OF THIS BOARD.
HOW ARE WE, HOW ARE, HOW ARE WE AS A CITY NOT STAFF, BUT HOW ARE WE AS A CITY EXPECTING YOU GUYS TO HOLD YOURSELVES AS BOARD? UM, SO AGAIN, REMEMBER WE TALKED ABOUT THAT THE PARTICIPANTS ARE AFFORDED CERTAIN, UM, RIGHTS FOR EQUAL PROTECTION AND DUE PROCESS SO EVERYBODY GETS TREATED THE SAME.
SO YOU AS BOARD MEMBERS ARE, ARE CHARGED WITH UPHOLDING THAT EVERYBODY GETS TREATED THE SAME.
WE CANNOT TREAT ANYBODY DIFFERENTLY AND WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR, THEIR RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED AS PART OF THIS PROCESS.
AND THAT'S, IT'S NOT TO SAY THEY CAN JUST DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, BUT THAT IS TO SAY AGAIN, YOUR RIGHT, SPECIFICALLY YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED.
UM, CAREFUL CONSIDERATION OF EX PARTE.
YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT EX PARTE COME ON.
VOLUNTEER EX PARTE CONTACTS IS ANY CONTACT YOU HAVE REGARDING PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION BUSINESS OUTSIDE OF THIS GROUP.
UM, THAT COULD EVEN INCLUDE, UM, SAY TRACY.
YOU SEE DONNA AT THE GROCERY STORE.
DONNA SAYS, MAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW I'M GONNA VOTE ON THIS ITEM COMING UP.
WHAT DO YOU THINK GONNA VOTE? THAT WOULDN'T COUNT.
YOU, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.
SO AGAIN, JUST CAREFUL CONSIDERATION OF EX PARTE CONTACTING.
YOU DIDN'T DISCUSS THE ISSUE, BUT YOU CAN'T SAY, HOW ARE YOU DOING THAT? I WOULDN'T EVEN DISCUSS THE ISSUE.
I ALL THE INFORMATION THAT YOU GET AS A GROUP SHOULD BE GOTTEN AS A GROUP IN THE MEETING OR IN THE PACKETS THAT STAFF GIVES.
UM, THE ONLY EXCEPTION I CAN THINK OF THAT IS IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF, WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE, OR IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR LEGAL, AGAIN, IT'S TOTAL, WE CAN DISCUSS IT AMONG OURSELVES IN JUST THE MICROPHONE.
YOU AND I CAN'T SIT IN YOU AT ANY TIME, HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE ITEM IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU DO THIS, YOU'RE DOING THE WRONG THING.
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT PROCESS, YOU CAN DO THAT.
IF I LEAN OVER AND GO, TRACY, DID WE ALREADY DO SUCH AND SUCH? YOU CAN DO THAT.
THAT ONE ITEM, I DON'T KNOW, YOU NEED TO ASK THAT INTO THE MICROPHONE.
WHETHER THAT'S A QUESTION FOR STAFF OR APPLICANT OR LEGAL.
UM, SO WE, WE WANT IT TO BE ON THE UP AND UP, RIGHT? RIGHT UP FRONT.
TRANSPARENT AT IF IT SMELLS FUNNY OR LOOKS FUNNY, IT PROBABLY DOES.
AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE SEE, SEE THIS GUY OVER HERE, HE'S TRAINED TO LOOK FOR STUFF THAT SMELLS FUNNY.
AS SOON AS YOU DO SOMETHING OR YOU GO LIKE THIS, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA LOOK TO DAVID TO GO, I'M GONNA GO, HEY, WHAT IS SHE DOING OVER THERE? HEY, HEY.
RIGHT, I'M, I SEE HIM DOING IT.
I DON'T, I DON'T REALLY WANT YOU TO DO THAT.
ALRIGHT, BUT WANT WE JUST SAY ITEM TWO, THAT'S FINE, THAT'S
[00:55:01]
FINE.PROCEDURAL NOT ON THAT PARTICULAR ITEM.
SO SPECIFICALLY CONFLICTS OF INTEREST ARE ABOUT FINANCIAL GAIN.
SO IF ME OR MY EMPLOYER HAVE A FINANCIAL GAIN IN FINANCIAL INTEREST IN WHATEVER'S IN FRONT OF US, THEN THAT'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
AGAIN, MY TAKE ON IT IS ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION.
IF IT LOOKS FUNNY, IT PROBABLY LOOKS FUNNY TO SOMEONE ELSE, I WOULD STEP BACK FROM IT AND SAY, I'M GONNA BE A PART OF THIS.
I WOULD EXCUSE MYSELF FROM ANYTHING THAT THERE WAS A QUESTION HE ASKED HIM TO GO TO THE PARKING LOT.
MAR YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE PARKING LOT ON THIS ISSUE.
AND, AND UM, AND I WOULDN'T BE AFRAID IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND THAT PERSON'S NOT CALLING THEMSELVES.
NOW I HAVE ZERO ISSUES WITH ONE OF YOU GOING, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE.
THAT'S A CONFLICT FOR YOU, RIGHT? YOU NEED TO RECUSE.
YEAH, YOU NEED TO RECUSE YOURSELF.
IF YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, COME TELL ME.
WE DID IT IN A FUN WAY, BUT WE DID IT
UM, GOTTA BE A PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING IN ORDER TO VOTE ON THE ITEM.
IF, IF YOU SHOW UP LATE AND YOU MISS THE PUBLIC HEARING, YOU GOTTA ABSTAIN FROM THE VOTE.
OKAY, UM, THIS NEXT ITEM, MY BROTHER-IN-LAW IS, UM, PART OF THIS ITEM.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT THAT.
AND, UM, MY BROTHER-IN-LAW HAS ASKED ME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.
AS LONG AS EVERYBODY ELSE IS COMFORTABLE WITH IT, I FEEL LIKE I CAN MAKE AN UNBIASED DECISION AND THEN I'D LIKE TO STAY IN AND VOTE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WITHOUT ABSTAINING, WITHOUT ACCUSING MYSELF.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'M GONNA LEAVE IT UP TO YOU GUYS, UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING PIECE OF PAPER STARING ME IN THE FACE THAT SAYS THIS IS CONFLICT.
WE'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU GUYS.
THIS IS PART OF, OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.
IF, IF YOU DON'T DO THE RIGHT THING, THEN IT'LL COME BACK
UM, AND REMEMBER THAT MEMBERS CAN BE REMOVED BY COUNCIL IN
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S HAPPENED HERE, BUT IT CAN HAPPEN.
UM, RESPONSIBILITIES PRIOR TO OR FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING?
I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PLANNING COMMISSION MEETINGS I'VE BEEN TO IN 20 YEARS WHERE THEY SHOW UP.
SO THIS IS WHEN WE USED TO HAVE THE OLD PAPER PACKETS SHOW UP WITH THE, UH, THE MANILA ENVELOPE AND I WATCH 'EM TEAR THE CEILING.
SPENT SO MUCH TIME PUTTING THOSE TOGETHER, YOU'RE JUST NOW OPENING THEM.
SO NOW WE DO, NOW WE DO ELECTRONIC PACKETS.
WE LAUGH JUST AS HARD OR CRY JUST AS HARD, I DON'T KNOW.
AND WE KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE FROM MEETING TO MEETING TO MEETING.
WE KNOW WHO IS JUST OPENING THEIR DAMN PACKET AS THEY WALK IN THE MEETING.
I PUT A QUESTION MARK BY THIS BECAUSE I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF VISITING THE SITE, BUT I KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE, IF YOU SHOULD CHOOSE TO VISIT THE SITE.
SO IF YOU'RE ON BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, I WOULD SAY ABSOLUTELY DO NOT VISIT THE SITE.
UM, IF YOU DO VISIT THE SITE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT NUMBER ONE, YOU'RE NOT GETTING OFF THE RIGHT OF WAY.
YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T GO ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.
THE CITY STAFF ARE NOT ALLOWED TO GO ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, SO DON'T GO ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.
AND THE BIG ONE, DO NOT TALK TO ANYBODY THAT'S ON SLEEP.
THAT'S MY BIGGEST WORRY IS IF YOU GO AND THE YOU'RE SITTING OUT IN FRONT OF THEIR MAILBOX AND YOU SEE THE GUY THAT IS THE APPLICANT WALKS OVER TO YOU AND KNOCKS ON YOUR WHEEL AND STARTS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS OR TELLING YOU THINGS ABOUT THE PROJECT, THAT'S A HUGE NO-NO.
SO THAT'S MY WORRY WHERE IT COMES TO SITE VISITS.
I KNOW SOME PEOPLE SWEAR BY IT.
UM, AND I HAD SOMEBODY ALMOST, I, I COMMISSION MEMBER ALMOST GET ARRESTED BECAUSE HE HIS WAY INTO THIS COMMERCIAL SITE THAT HE FOUND HIMSELF BEHIND SECURITY AND IT WAS MESSY.
I JUST, SO, SO AGAIN, IF YOU'RE GONNA DO IT, PLEASE EXERCISE.
UM, AND THAT TO ME, BEING FLEXIBLE BECAUSE I USED TO JUST TELL EVERYBODY, DON'T I HAVE TO DRIVE BYS? I, I DRIVE BY BECAUSE I'M A REALTOR.
ON A REGULAR BASIS, YOU DO IT ALL THE TIME ANYWAY.
YOU'VE SEEN THAT PROPERTY AND THAT'S, IT'S OKAY.
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO VISIT THE AREA TO UNDERSTAND IT, SEE IT VISUALLY, SEE IT.
THE ONE WITH THE DENTIST OFFICE, THE DENTIST.
YOU HAVE TO GO SEE WHAT THE AREA LOOKS LIKE.
STAFF WILL ALWAYS DO THE BEST WE CAN TO PROVIDE YOU ALL OF THESE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED IN ORDER TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION.
[01:00:01]
I DID ONCE BEFORE, WHICH I THOUGHT ACTUALLY WORKED REALLY WELL, WAS I BROUGHT OUT THE GOOGLE, UM, STREET VIEW THAT WORKED REALLY WELL.AND IF ANYBODY NEEDS THAT, THEN ALWAYS WE CAN ALWAYS PULL.
UM, LET'S, I JUST WANNA KNOCK OUT A COUPLE MORE THINGS AND THEN WE'LL BE DONE.
UM, ASK QUESTIONS OF STAFF, PLEASE.
IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, CALL ME.
CALL THE PERSON WHOSE NAME IS ON THE STAFF REPORT.
YOU'RE HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
UM, AND OVERALL, BE FAIR, BE HONEST, BE ETHICAL, BE OBJECTIVE.
TRY NOT TO LET YOUR FEELINGS GET IN THE WAY OF THE DECISION.
'CAUSE SOMETIMES THOSE TWO THINGS WEIGH HEAVILY AGAINST THAT.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO'VE BEEN ON ON P AND Z FOR A WHILE, YOU KNOW THAT.
UM, AND THAT AT ONE HOUR EVEN TAKES US TO THE MEETING STRUCTURE PART.
IF YOU WANT ME TO KEEP GOING, I'LL SPEND ANOTHER 20 OR 30 MINUTES ON IT, BUT IF NOT, WE WILL SAVE IT FOR NEXT TIME AND I'LL ADD SOME OTHER STUFF TO THAT.
WHEN IS NEXT TIME? PROBABLY AFTER YOU RESIGN
OKAY, THEN SAVE IT FOR NEXT TIME.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE JUST KIND OF WRAP? NO, THANK YOU.
THE DENTIST OFFICE EVER COME BACK FOR A A REASON? NO.
WHICH DENTIST OFFICE? WHAT STREET WAS THAT? WHAT'S HIS NAME? ROAD.
YEAH, BY UH, NORTH ALEXANDER ONE BACK IN THERE.
YES, BECAUSE 'CAUSE IT MUST'VE BEEN MY TIME.
YEAH, IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT A YEAR AGO.
SHE WANTED, YEAH, BECAUSE THEY FELT KEYHOLE WITH THEIR ZONING AND THEY, THEY WANTED TO GO TRUE COMMERCIAL, BUT IT WAS A BETTER CHOICE.
I THOUGHT THEY WOULD'VE COME BACK AND ASKED TO GO RESIDENTIAL.
WELL THEN THEY WOULD'VE HAD A RESIDENTIAL HOUSE ON EITHER SIDE OF THE OFFICE, BUT THE OFFER THEY HAD WAS FOR THAT WAS DENIED.
THEY HAVE NOT COME BACK FOR ANYTHING AND THEY PROBABLY WON'T.
THE NEIGHBORS ARE GONNA DOWN AGAIN.
I PULLED THOSE, BUILD A BIG NICE HOUSE AND SELL IT.
OR THIS IS ALL DECISIONS THAT WERE ALREADY MADE.
SO, UM, THE, ONE OF THE INTERESTING CONSEQUENCES THAT CAME OUT OF THAT ITEM, THE AGENDA,
'CAUSE SHE DECIDED SHE WANTED TO GET MORE AND SHE ACTUALLY SPOKE FAIRLY CL CLEARLY AND, AND UM, AND, AND LIKE WAS WAS KIND OF, UM, WAS RATIONAL, RIGHT? AND, AND HAD A GOOD ARGUMENT.
IT IS A LITTLE JUMPY, BUT YOU KNOW, FOR SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T DO THIS DAY IN AND DAY OUT LIKE I DO, IT'S, IT'S NOT EASY.
NO, HER PRESENTATION WAS GOOD.
AND, UM, AND SO SHE APPLIED TO BE A BOARD MEMBER AND SHE'S NOW ON THE BOARD OF
BECKY, SHE RETIRED BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE FEW DENIALS WE HAD THAT WAS KIND OF CONTENTIOUS.
UH, BECAUSE IT, IT HAD GOOD WEIGHT EITHER WAY.
AND SOMETHING I MEANT TO MENTION EARLIER TOO IS THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION DOES NOT GET SUED OFTEN, BUT IT CAN GET SUED.
YOU GUYS ALL KNOW THAT THE CITY HAS INSURANCE THAT COVERS YOU IN ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
YOU ARE NEVER IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IN ANY PERSONAL LIABILITY THAT THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
UM, SO IF YOU EVER SEE THAT AND YOU SEE YOUR NAME ON THERE BECAUSE THEY WILL LIST EVERYBODY OUT INDIVIDUALLY IF SEEN IT.
BUT, BUT YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT EVER IN ANY DANGER OF, YOU KNOW, HAVING YOUR HOUSE TAKEN AWAY FROM ME BECAUSE YOU MADE A S****Y Y ALMOST HAVE TO THAT NOW YOU ALMOST HAVE TO DO THAT WITH EVERY BORDER COMMISSION.
WE DO THAT FOR EVERY MY BOARD'S THE SAME WAY.
SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I GOT THAT IN THERE.
'CAUSE IF ANYBODY DIDN'T SHOULD BE BECAUSE JUST NEVER KNOW P AND Z LIKE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT GETS SUED A LOT MORE THAN P AND Z.
BUT I HAVE, I'VE BEEN HERE ALMOST TWO YEARS.
WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? UM, WHAT IS IT? RO HE SAYS YOU GOTTA TOUCH, YOU GOTTA TOUCH HER SHOE OR SOMETHING.
WHAT IS THAT? SHOE? TOUCH A SHOE.
I CAN'T
IF YOU TOUCH, KNOCK ON WOOD, TOUCH IT.
IT WASN'T ANYTHING THAT MADE SENSE TO ME.
I APPRECIATE YOU STICKING WITH US.
I HOPE THIS IS, I HOPE YOU GUYS FIND THIS HELPFUL.
WE, WE WILL DO SOME MORE AND WE'LL EXPAND WHAT WE LOOK AT KINDERGARTEN
[01:05:01]
TO THE FIRST GRADE.I BETTER, I'D LIKE SECOND, SECOND GRADE.
YOU CAN ALL GO BACK OUT THAT WAY IF YOU WANT.