* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. SO WE'LL CALL THE MEETING TO [00:00:01] ORDER. UM, THIS IS THE MEET AND CONFER SESSION BETWEEN THE CITY OF BAYTOWN AND THE BAYTOWN MUNICIPAL POLICE POLICE ASSOCIATION ON FRIDAY, APRIL 8TH, 2022. WE'RE STARTING AT 1:30 PM UM, REPRESENTING THE CITY. AT THE TABLE TODAY IS CAROL FLINT AND TREVOR FANNING, AND REPRESENTING THE POLICE ASSOCIATION IS CLAYTON BREEDING. WILLIAM NELSON. KEVIN LAWRENCE. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WILL START OFF [1. a. Consider the Baytown Police Association's meet and confer proposals.] WITH BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER ONE. CONSIDER THE BAYTOWN POLICE ASSOCIATION'S MEET AND CONFER PROPOSALS. DO Y'ALL HAVE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL FOR TODAY? OFFER, OFFER NOT, NOT NEW ARTICLES. OKAY. UM, DO YOU HAVE CALENDARS TO YOUR ORIGINAL? YOU SAID THAT. I WAS LIKE, HOLD ON. IT'S A NEW TACTIC. I KNOW. OKAY. NOTHING ELSE IS. WE MIGHT GET AROUND TO BIDDING AGAINST OURSELVES, BUT WE'LL HOLD ON. OKAY. OKAY. LET KNOW WHEN THE FEELING COMES ON YOU BE A STRATEGY. ALL RIGHT. UM, WITH [1. b. Consider the City of Baytown's meet and confer proposals.] THAT THEN WE WILL GO TO ITEM ONE B, CONSIDER THE CITY OF BAYTOWN AND CONFER THE PENCILS. SO WE HAVE A, A NUMBER OF THEM, LOT, THE FINANCIAL ONES. WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE THE STUDY AND, AND PRESENT THAT AS A PACKAGE TOGETHER. UM, THERE'S ALSO A COUPLE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE TA THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS. OKAY. SEVERAL THANK YOU THAT YOU CAN START WITH THE TWO THAT WE TA ON. HAVE AN EIGHT TO BE ARTICLE 25. OKAY. I DIDN'T OH, YOU DID? OKAY. ARTICLE 25. IT'S JUST, UH, CLEAN UP. BASICALLY IT STILL HAD THE OLD DATE OF THE COMPLAINT PROCEDURE INSIDE THAT CLAUSE. AND WE JUST NEED TO CHANGE THAT TO, TO THE DATE THAT WE PASSED THE DATE PROCEDURE. AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE THERE WAS THE TUESDAY. OKAY. AND THEN AS FAR AS ARTICLE 28, IF YOU LOOKED AT THE, WHICH Y'ALL GAVE US, YOU HAVE THE BLACK ONES AND THEN YOU HAVE THE GREEN ONES. IT WAS OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE GREEN ONES WERE ONES THAT HE HAD CHANGES IN, AND THE BLACK ONES WERE ONES IN WHICH YOU DID NOT HAVE CHANGES. AND THAT'S WHY WHEN WE DID THE TAS, WE SAID, UH, IF YOU LOOK ON THE STICKER ON THE TA, I WROTE NO CHANGE. THIS ARE THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE WAS NO CHANGE TO THAT ARTICLE AND THERE WAS CHANGES TO ARTICLE 28. UM, SO THE ACTUAL DATES. YEAH. WELL, , NO, THERE WAS ADDITIONAL, THE ACTUAL DATE AND THERE WAS, UH, A RAISE OF YEAR RAISE CERTAIN PERCENT. OH, IF WE DIDN'T MEET, IF WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY COME TO AN AGREEMENT. RIGHT. [00:05:01] A LOT OF THAT LANGUAGE, THIS IS THE CURRENT ARTICLE AND LANGUAGE YOU SEE, DURATION. IT'S JUST THAT. AND THAT WAS, I BELIEVE, YOUR 2019 PROPOSAL. THAT, YEAH. UM, THAT'S IT. YEAH. SO THAT WAS, SO Y'ALL, ARE Y'ALL PROPOSING THIS SAME THING? OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. RIGHT. AND WE CAN DISCUSS THE OTHER ONES TOO, IF YOU, DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE DIRECT? NO. DO YOU? NO. UM, SO, UM, JUST STARTING WITH THE ARTICLE, THE SIX, JUST SO WE CAN KIND OF WALK THROUGH THAT, UM, THAT ONE YOU ALL HAD REQUESTED AN INCREASE FROM THE, UH, 1500 SIGN BONUS AND Y'ALL ACTUALLY PROPOSED THE 70 510,000 AND WE WERE AGREEABLE TO 10,000 FOR WHOEVER . UM, AND THEN BREAKING THAT PAYOUT UP A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY, UM, STARTING WITH THE, THE 3000 AND THEN, UM, THE MONTHLY PAYMENTS AFTER THAT. UM, AND THEN Y'ALL HAD PROPOSED THE THREE YEAR SERVICE REQUIREMENT, UM, FROM THE HIRE DATE. AND WERE AGREEABLE TO THAT. I JUST THINK FOR THE RECORD, THE, AS YOU LOOK AT OUR, UM, PROPOSALS, THE, UH, THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN BLACK IS CORRECT FROM THE CONTRACT. UM, IT'S NOT FROM Y'ALL'S PROPOSAL ARTICLE SIX. AND THEN THE BLUE IS THE ADDITIONS AND THE RED IS THE SUBTRACTION. ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT THAT AT THIS POINT? UM, SO ARTICLE SEVEN, UH, ALTERNATE HIRING PROVISIONS Y'ALL HAD PROPOSED MOVING FROM A TWO TO ONE TO A ONE TO ONE. UM, WE ARE AGREEABLE TO THAT. YOU ALSO, UM, REQUESTED, UH, MOVING FROM A NINE YEAR KIND OF MAX ON NET CREDIT, UM, TO A SEVEN YEAR, UM, THAT ARE AGREEABLE TO THAT AS WELL. JUST FOR MY CLARIFICATION, THE WAY THE CHART'S MARKED OUT HERE, Y'ALL ARE AGREEING TO GO TO A SEVEN YEAR STEP, BUT WE HAVE YEARS EIGHT AND NINE CROSSED OUT. SO JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A TOPPED OUT OFFICER, WE BE ELIMINATING THE FIRST TWO STEPS. 'CAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE DROPPING THE TOP OUT. IF IT'S, I'M GONNA, ACTUALLY, I'M GOING TO ASK LEGAL, THEY PREPARED THE TWO CHARTS HERE. OKAY. AND SO I'M GONNA ASK THEM TO EXPLAIN, I DON'T KNOW , I KNOW J JARRIS DID THE WORK. SO, UM, YEAH, BASICALLY, UH, THE IDEA WAS, AND I IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, YOU GUYS HAD PUR, UH, PROPOSED GOING TO THE SEVEN YEAR. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. AND, UH, THE ONE CAVEAT THAT THE CITY'S LOOKING AT IS WITH CONSIDERATION OF TYPE OF PRIOR EXPERIENCE. UM, AND THAT CAME FROM THE IDEA THAT LET'S SAY WE HAVE A, AN OFFICER WHO COMES HERE WITH SIX YEARS EXPERIENCE, BUT THAT SIX YEARS IS WORKING AT A SMALL UNIVERSITY. THEY'VE NEVER MADE AN ARREST. WE CAN'T SEE PAYING A SIX YEAR BAYTOWN OFFICER THAT SAME AMOUNT OF PAY AS A SIX YEAR OFFICER THAT DOESN'T EVER MAKE ARREST. AND HE'S COMING IN AS, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A ROOKIE BECAUSE OF HIS EXPERIENCE. THIS WOULD BE A RARE OCCURRENCE. UM, BUT THAT IS THE TYPE OF EXPERIENCE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. UM, MOST OFFICERS THAT COME IN AS LATERAL TRANSFERS, THEY [00:10:01] COME IN WITH REGULAR POLICE DEPARTMENT EXPERIENCE. UM, THIS WOULD JUST BE, THIS WOULD JUST COVER THOSE RARE OCCURRENCES WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S POLICE OFFICERS AT THE AG THAT DON'T ACTUALLY DO ANY, ANY KIND OF ARREST. THERE ARE SOME THAT DO, SOME THAT DON'T. THERE ARE OTHER POLICE OFFICERS THAT WORK FOR SMALL UNIVERSITIES AND OTHER THINGS WHERE THEY JUST DON'T REALLY GET OUT THERE AND DO THINGS, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT PART OF THEIR JOB. NO, I UNDERSTAND THE, THE INTENT. AND, AND, AND BY AND LARGE I, I WOULD AGREE. I GUESS I HAVE SOME CONCERNS WITH IT. WE'LL, WE'LL ACTUALLY CAUCUS ON THAT TO DISCUSS IT BETWEEN US. SO THAT VERY GOOD BECAUSE I GOT A FEW QUESTIONS, BUT BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION. MM-HMM . UM, SO IF YOU LOOK AT OUR PAY SCALE NOW, WHICH IS OFFICE YEARS ONE THROUGH NINE AND WE'RE PROPOSING, WE TOP OUT SEVEN INSTEAD OF NINE YEARS. I'M JUST MAKING SURE THAT THIS CHART DOESN'T, ANYWAY, WE'RE TAKING AWAY YEARS ONE AND TWO. SO YEAR THREE IS THE NEW ONE. SO THIS IS SEPARATE. THIS IS NOT COMPENSATION. OKAY. SO THIS IS PURELY FOR SEPARATE. THIS IS PURELY FOR THE EXPERIENCE FOR LATERAL TRANSFERS. IT'S ALL IT'S FOR. OKAY. ALRIGHT. FAIR ENOUGH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THAT FOR THE CAUCUS? UM, SO THEN ARTICLE EIGHT UM, IS OUR NEXT COUNTER PROPOSAL. AND THIS WAS RELOCATION EXPENSES FOR NEW HIRES. UM, SO YOU ALL HAD PROPOSED ACTUALLY TO EXPAND, UM, FROM NEW HIRES TO BOTH NEW HIRES AND FOR RELOCATION FOR CURRENT OFFICERS. UM, WE ARE PROPOSING THAT. UM, AND THEN ALSO AN INCREASE, UM, TO 2000 AND 4,000 FOR THOSE OUT OF STATE. UM, SO WE ARE PROPOSING BACK, UH, THAT WE UH, KEEP THE 2000, WE UP TO 150 MILES GO TO 4,000 FOR MORE THAN 150 MILES. SO THAT'S INSTEAD OF DOING THE INSTATE OUTTA STATE, UM, IT'S MORE OF BASED ON THE DISTANCE THEY HAVE TO MOVE. UM, AND THEN ALSO ADDING IN A, A REIMBURSEMENT POSITION THERE. GREAT. ARTICLE NINE IS OUR NEXT COUNTER CLOSING COST, UH, FOR OFFICERS. SO THIS IS OUR EXISTING OFFICERS WHO DECIDE IF THEY'RE CURRENTLY LIVING OUTTA TOWN, THEY MOVE BACK INTO TOWN. BUT YOU ALL REQUESTED THAT CHANGE FROM 2000 TO 5,000. WE'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT, UH, TO MOVE IT TO THE 5,000 WE ADDED IN THAT OFFICERS NEED TO, UH, FILE FOR THOSE REIMBURSEMENTS WITHIN UH, 30 DAYS AND THEN THAT THEY ALSO HAVE THE SAME THREE YEAR COMMITMENT THAT WE'VE PUT ON SOME OF THE OTHER CLAUSES QUESTIONS. OKAY. ALRIGHT. AND THEN, UM, THE LAST ARTICLE, YEAH. 25 ARTICLE. YES, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY. THAT'S PREVIOUSLY, YEAH. THAT THOSE WERE OUR COUNTERPROPOSALS THAT WERE PREPARED ON MAY. ANY INDICATION OF WHEN Y'ALL BE PREPARED TO PROPOSE THIS, UH, COMPENSATION? I'LL PROPOSE FIRST. SURE. YOU DON'T WANT TO I BEING GENTLEMANLY. I KNOW, I DO APPRECIATE THAT, BUT I'M GONNA LET YOU GO. OKAY. SO I WAS AFRAID YOU WERE GONNA BE THAT WAY, CAROL. I KNOW IT YOURSELF. I KNOW Y'ALL WOULDN'T COUNTER YOUR COUNTERS, YOU KNOW, SO GIVE US A MINUTE T YET WE'RE PREPARED TO GO UP. OKAY. CAUCUS TIME. YOU, DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS PRESENTATION FOR THE COMPENSATION THEN CAUCUS OR YOU WANNA CAUCUS FIRST THE ARTICLE? I'M SORRY. UM, YEAH, THAT'S FINE. UH, SO FOR ARTICLE 11 COMPENSATION, UH, SECTION ONE, THE BASE COMPENSATION, [00:15:01] UH, GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL, WE'VE ASKED TO GO TO THE 78 PERCENTILE, UM, FOR THE MARKET AND THEN FOR THE THREE YEAR CONTRACT, UH, 15%, WHICH WOULD BE UH, 5% ON EACH ONE OF THE YEARS FOR 22, 23 AND 24 YOU PLAY. IT HAS THE NINE STEPS THAT ARE IN THERE THAT ARE LISTED, UM, AS WELL AS THE STEPS THAT ARE, UH, FOR THE SERGEANT AND LIEUTENANT ASSISTANT CHIEF RANKS. JUST SO THAT WE WERE LISTED OUT ON THERE IN OUR PREVIOUS, UM, PROPOSAL, WE'D ASKED TO BE MOVED TO THE 17TH PERCENTILE. THESE NUMBERS, YOU'RE LOOKING AT RECALCULATED AT THE 65TH BASED ON THE NUMBERS YOU GAVE US BECAUSE WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW THE FORM THAT YOU USED TO DETERMINE THE GEOGRAPHIC TEMPERA. SO I COULDN'T CALCULATE IT AT 70%. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT 70TH PERCENTILE LOOKS HERE. WE DUNNO. OKAY. BUT WE WERE ALSO PROPOSING THAT IT BE REDUCED TO THE SEVEN STEPS COMING DOWN FROM NINE. YEAH, WE'RE GOING STEP ONE REALLY COMING IN AT THAT NUMBER THREE STEP PROBABLY MAKES MORE SENSE NOW THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE PAPER. SO THREE WOULD BE THE NEW NUMBER ONE. SO THAT WOULD BE ONE THROUGH SEVEN GOING FROM THERE. AND AS WELL AS FOR THE SUPERVISOR RANKS, THOSE WOULD BE COLLAPSED DOWN TO JUST THAT ONE STEP. THE HIGHER CORRECT. YES, SIR. EXTRA ONE? YEAH. YEAH. WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT EXTRAS. OH YEAH. GOOD. JOEY MIGHT LIKE, OKAY, WELL JOEY'S THE NUMBERS GUY, SO HE HAS TO HAVE ONE . OKAY. SO IT'S WHAT Y'ALL ARE ASKING IN THE COMPENSATION PROPOSAL IS YOU'RE ASKING TO INCREASE FROM THE 65TH PERCENTILE TO BE PLACED, UM, TO THE 70TH PERCENTILE. IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEN YOU WANT TO HAVE SEVEN STEPS STARTING AT CURRENTLY WHAT WOULD BE STEP THREE AND THEN YOU'RE REQUESTING OF 5% OVERALL INCREASE ACROSS THREE YEARS AND THEN ALSO ONLY USING THE TOP STEP OF EACH OF THE RANKS 5% EACH YEAR FOR A TOTAL OF 15. WHAT I SAID? YES. ALL RIGHT. SHE'S MAKING IT, SHE SAID. OKAY. JOEY, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS JUST TO CONFIRM AGAIN, MAKE SURE I HEARD COLLAPSING THE RANKS. SERGEANT, LIEUTENANT TEST CHIEF. YES, SIR. CORRECTLY COLLAPSING TO IT'D BE THAT HOT. THE HIGHER NUMBER. YES, SIR. ALL BILL. DID I, OKAY. I JUST HAVE A REAL QUICK QUESTION. WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THREE YEAR, THREE BEING ONE, SO LITERALLY ROW THREE WOULD BE YEAR ONE, IS THAT RIGHT? CORRECT. OKAY. YES. VERY GOOD. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD. SO YEAH, THE PROBATIONARY ONE STAYS, IS IT, WAS THAT WHAT YOU WERE ASKING? SO, WELL, NO, BEFORE NUMBER ONE IT ACTUALLY STARTS, PROBATIONARY WOULD STILL BE IN LEVEL. RIGHT. OKAY. WE SKIP ONE AND TWO THEN? CORRECT. THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE YEAR ONE STARTING. THEY START YEAR THREE. TOP OUT HERE IS SEVEN. YOU WOULD SECOND YEAR BEFORE THEN, OR DO THEY HAVE TO STAY STATIC? NO, NO. YEAR THREE WOULD JUST REALLY CHANGE NUMBER, DISCUSS THAT. AND I KNOW WE HAD TALKS BEFORE THAT WE'RE NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE THAT'S EVEN, SO I DON'T, I THINK WE START THREE IS NUMBER ONE TO SEVEN. THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY JUMP, WHICH IS REALLY COMMON. [00:20:04] SHOULD CHANGE. OKAY. WE'LL ALL TAKE, SO THEN IT WOULD, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA GO FIND US A ROOM. SO THIS IS KIND OF, WE ALL HAVE GUNS WHEN WE CAN HAVE KIND ANOTHER ARTICLE. I LEFT BACK ON THE RECORD. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE PREPARED TO TA A COUPLE OF THESE AND WE'D LIKE TO MAYBE SOME CLARIFICATION ON OTHER ONES. SO STARTING OFF EASY. UM, ARTICLE SIX LOOKS GOOD. WITH THAT ONE, ARTICLE EIGHT, THAT ONE AND ARTICLE 25. UM, GOING TO ARTICLE NINE, UM, WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR SOME CLARIFICATION ON WHAT, UH, WHERE IT SAYS THE POLICE OFFICER MUST FILE FOR REIMBURSEMENT WITHIN THE 30 DAYS, UH, OF INCURED EXPENSES. WE WANT TO DEFINE WHAT THE FILE ACTUALLY MEANS. WHERE, WHERE THAT, DOES THAT MEAN PAPER ACTUALLY IN HAND TO THE CITY? UM, OR HOW, HOW EXACTLY DOES THAT WORK? UM, OR CAN WE EXTEND THE 30 DAYS OUT FURTHER TO GIVE THAT PERSON ENOUGH TIME TO ACTUALLY GET THAT PROCESS DONE? WE WERE TRYING TO THINK OF A, A DATE THERE THAT'S PINPOINT AND, AND WHEN THE PAPERWORK GETS TURNED INTO THE CITY WAS THE, THE MOST FOR SURE DATE THAT WE COULD COME UP WITH. SO IT'S MEANING 30 DAYS FROM WHEN THEY HAND IN THEIR REIMBURSEMENT, OR I MEAN 30 DAYS FROM WHEN IT'S INCURRED, 30 DAYS FROM WHEN IT'S INCURRED UNTIL THEY HAND IN THEIR RECORDED IS THERE. I WOULD SAY THAT TO THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE IT HAS TO GO TO BE PROCESSED. SO I WOULD SAY 30 DAYS TO TURN IT INTO THE FINANCE DEPART. IS THERE A SPECIFIC DOCUMENT THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? WE HAVE A SPECIFIC DOCUMENT NOW. UM, YOU TALK ABOUT THE REIMBURSEMENT FORM. YES. WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHAT, DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC DOCUMENT IN MIND THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PRESENT YOU AS EVIDENCE OF THEIR EXPENDITURE? OH, JUST ANY KIND. WE'VE BEEN PRETTY FLEXIBLE ON THAT. WE HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF 'EM. MIND YOU, WE DID HAVE ONE RECENTLY THIS PAST MONTH. UM, BUT UH, THEY JUST PROVIDED UH, AN OFFICIAL DOCUMENT THAT HAD ALL THE BREAKDOWN, YOU KNOW, AND IT HAD CLOSING COSTS AND IT HAD THE DOLLAR AMOUNT AND SO WE TOOK IT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS FROM THE FINANCE COMPANY ITSELF OR FROM THE TITLE COMPANY REALTOR. I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHICH ONE. BASICALLY SETTLEMENT STATEMENT ALONG WITH THE WORKFORCE. IT'S KIND OF A DOCUMENT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THEY HAND WROTE. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAME FROM AN ORGANIZATION THAT WOULD GIVE YOU THAT KIND OF INFORMATION. AND THEN THE PROOF THAT WAS, WAS ACTUALLY SPECIFIC FORM. RIGHT. AND THE DOCUMENT WE RECEIVED RECENTLY DID THAT. IT SAID THAT IT WAS PAID, WHICH YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA ALWAYS PAY YOUR CLOSING COST. I MEAN IT, YOU KNOW, AND IT BE DOCUMENTED. YES. IT'S LIKE A RECEIPT. SO I MEAN THAT'S WHAT I WOULD CALL THAT A RECEIPT. SO WOULD YOU GUYS BE OKAY WITH SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID MUST SUBMIT PROOF OF THE EXPENSE WITH A REIMBURSEMENT REQUEST TO THE FINANCE OFFICE WITHIN 30 DAYS? NO, I WILL ADD THAT WHEN IT COMES TO FINANCE, THEY ACTUALLY DON'T FILE IT WITH FINANCE. THEY FILE IT WITH LISA AND LISA FILES IT WITH FINANCE. I DON'T THINK LISA, HE'S THE ONES, HER NAME AND THE COPY, SHE MAY NOT. I AGREE. BUT I'M SAYING SHOULD IT BE THE PERSON AT THE PD THAT HANDLES THAT RATHER, BECAUSE WE, OUR GUYS DON'T COME OVER TO FINANCE AND TURN ANYTHING IN, YOU KNOW, DIRECTLY DEPARTMENTAL TIMEKEEPER. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT DEPARTMENTAL TIMEKEEPER IS THAT HER, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE SHE'S THE TIMEKEEPER IS WHAT? UM, WELL, OR WE COULD JUST SAY THE DESIGNATED UH, POLICE YEAH. POLICE REPRESENTATIVE TO ACCEPT THOSE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THAT COULD CHANGE. DESIGNATE SURE. COULD CHANGE TO SUSAN OR SOMETHING. YEAH. DONE ELECTRONICALLY. NOT GONNA BE A QUESTION WHETHER IT OR NOT GET SHUFFLED ON THE DESK SOMEWHERE. CAN IT BE SUBMITTED ELECTRONICALLY? CAN IT BE DONE VIA, IF I TAKE, I WOULD I EMAIL YOU A COPY. SO BECAUSE WE ACCEPT ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE, SO THERE SHOULD BE NO RE I, I'LL TELL YOU THAT BECAUSE WE, THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN. OFFICERS ALWAYS WALK OVER AND DO IT IN PERSON ONLY BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT ALL THESE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW? UM, BUT THERE IS NO REASON WHY THEY COULDN'T TURN IT IN THE SAME WAY THEY DO OTHER DOCUMENTS. CAN'T WE JUST TAKE CARE OF THAT BY PUTTING OUT A GOOD INTERNAL DOCUMENT? I SUGGEST WE COULD, WE COULD FILES, BUT THEY'LL READ THAT. AND THEN FIVE YEARS FROM NOW IS WHEN THEY'LL ACTUALLY DO IT. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? , ALONG WITH THE REQUEST FOR REIMBURSEMENT, MAKE SURE THEIR SUPERVISORS ARE TAKEN CARE OF. SO THE, FOR DESIGNEE WITHIN 30 DAYS, I THINK THAT GETS US THERE. HERE'S THE THING, IF THIS [00:25:01] EVER BECOMES AN ISSUE, IT'S GONNA BE A ONE TIME FLAMING WHATEVER, AND WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT AT THAT MOMENT. I JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T FORESEE IT EVER BEING AN ISSUE. WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTOOD EXACTLY WHAT WE MEANT BY FILING WHAT DOES THAT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE AN OFFICER SAYS, WELL, I DROPPED IT IN THE, I DROPPED IT IN THE PATROL BASKET IN THE SQUAD ROOM. . YEAH. YEAH, THAT'S, YEAH, I UNDERSTAND. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. HOW ABOUT, DID YOU TAKE THOSE NOTES DOWN? WELL, CAROL, 'CAUSE I COULDN'T GET IT. AND HE'S TYPING OKAY. ALONG WITH THE REQUEST FOR REIMBURSEMENTS ARE IN 30 DAYS OF THE INCURSION OF THE EXPENSE. YES. WE CAN SAY JUST WITHIN 30 DAYS OF CLOSING. RIGHT. IT'S ONLY, IT'S ONLY ON, YEAH. IT'S ONLY HALF WITHIN 30 DAYS OF CLOSING. OKAY. YEAH. 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T CLOSE UNLESS YOU PAY THE CLOSING FEES. RIGHT. RIGHT. AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SETTLEMENT STATEMENT AT LEAST 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE OF THAT, SO MM-HMM . WHICH BY THE WAY, BUT IF THE SELLER KNOW RIGHT, THE SELLER'S PAYING, IT'S LIKE CONSTRUCTION. IT NEVER HAPPENS WHEN THEY CALL. THERE'S NO EXPENSE TO BE REIMBURSED. HE SAID ASK IF THE SELLER'S PAYING THE CLOSING COSTS. DID WE SAY, WHAT DID WE SAY WE TO THAT? I, I SAID THERE'S NO EXPENSE TO BE REIMBURSED. OH, OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. WE BRING THAT ONE OVER FOR TA. UM, LOOKING AT ARTICLE SEVEN, UH, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CONSIDERATION OF THE TYPE OF, UH, EXPERIENCE FROM THE OTHER AGENCIES WHILE WE HAVE, UM, FAITH IN OUR CURRENT CHIEF, UH, AS WELL AS OUR FIELD TRAINING PROGRAM. UM, AND WE, WE UNDERSTAND WHAT Y'ALL ARE ARE DOING BY PRESENTING THAT AND, AND WE AGREE. UM, WE ALSO ALL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT ARE RAISED IN REGARDS TO THAT AS WELL. OKAY. UM, KEVIN HAS SOME SPECIFICS. YEAH, WE WERE, WE WERE THINKING ABOUT THAT AS WELL, ABOUT SETTING UP SOME PARAMETERS, UH, WHAT SPECIFICALLY WE WOULD LOOK AT FOR THE TYPE OF EXPERIENCE. UM, WE, WE WANT, WE TALKED ABOUT DOING POPULATION, WE THOUGHT NO, THAT DOESN'T REALLY MEAN ANYTHING. 'CAUSE THEY COULD BE A SMALLER CITY AND STILL HAVE GREAT EXPERIENCE. UH, SO I WILL TAKE ANY SUGGESTIONS OR THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL PERSON SPEAKING HERE. WELL, IN ALL HONESTY, WE, I I THINK WE HAD SEVEN, EIGHT PEOPLE SITTING IN THERE AND HAD SEVEN OR EIGHT DIFFERENT QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT CAME UP AND DIFFERENT IDEAS THAT CAME UP. OKAY. AND I THINK WE'RE FULLY IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE. SURE. THE DEVIL'S ALWAYS IN THE DETAILS. EXACTLY. HOW DO YOU PUT IT IN WRITING AND ARE WE PUT A CHIEF IN A POSITION WHERE HE OR SHE IS GONNA GET ACCUSED OF DISCRIMINATION IF THEY APPROVE THIS ONE AND DON'T APPROVE THAT ONE. SURE. UH, BUT, BUT I MEAN, WE CERTAINLY RECOGNIZE IF YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY THAT COMES OVER WITH SEVEN YEARS EXPERIENCE FROM THE PHARMACY BOARD POLICE THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM SEVEN YEARS EXPERIENCE WITH DVS OR PASADENA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE QUESTION IS HOW EXACTLY WHAT, WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YARDSTICK DO WE USE HERE? AND JUST PUTTING IT ON THE CHIEF AND LEAVING IT THEN TO GRIEVANCES, ACCUSATIONS, YOU KNOW, THAT CONCERNS US. SO MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE WE SHOULD SPEND A LITTLE MORE TIME. I HAVEN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT THE DISCRIMINATION POINT ON THAT. YEAH. IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH SOME GOOD PARAMETERS BECAUSE I, I WAS KIND OF STRUGGLING TO THINK OF HOW I COULD WORD IT. I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, I DIDN'T WANNA TIE IT TO POPULATION. SO WHEN I LOOK AT IT, TO ME, I'M, I FEEL LIKE IT'S JUST, IT'S AN, IT'S AN EXTRA HURDLE AND I'M NOT CLEAR ON THE REASON WHY. COULD, COULD, COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOU FEEL IT'S REALLY NECESSARY? CONSIDERING IF YOU HIRE ME FROM WHEREVER AND I HIRE THIS GUY FROM A A NATION, WE HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES. WE'RE ALL GOING THROUGH THE EXACT SAME DEPARTMENTAL TRAINING FOR THE EXACT, THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME. BUT IF YOU WORKED LIKE, WE'LL SAY AT PASADENA MM-HMM . AND YOU WORKED FOR THIS TINY COLLEGE, YOU MAY BE GETTING TRAINED THE SAME ORDINANCES AND OUR POLICIES, BUT HE'S GONNA HAVE TO HAVE A LOT MORE TRAINING ON ARREST, UH, ON USE OF FORCE AND DIFFERENT THINGS BECAUSE HE HASN'T DONE IT. HE HASN'T MADE AN ARREST IN THE LAST SIX YEARS. YOU'VE PROBABLY MADE DOZENS, HUNDREDS OF THEM. AND IT'S NOT THE SAME EXPERIENCE. BUT BOTH OF US ARE GOING TO BE PUT THROUGH THE BAYTOWN FIELD TRAINING PROGRAM FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME. RIGHT. BUT THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU WANNA GET THE SAME PAY YOU WANT HIM? I'M SORRY. YOU KNOW, I'M NOT TELLING YOU, UH, DO YOU WANT HIM TO GET THE SAME PAY AS THE OTHER GUY THAT'S BEEN HERE IN BAYTOWN FOR SIX OR SEVEN YEARS, WHO'S GOT ALL THIS GREAT EXPERIENCE? YOU ARE COMING WITH ALL THIS GREAT EXPERIENCE, BUT HE JUST DOESN'T EVEN HAVE IT. HE'S LIKE A A, A ROOKIE JUST COMING OUT AND DO WE WANT TO GIVE HIM THE SAME STEP UP? YEAH. UP. THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE INTENT OF GOING [00:30:01] TO ONE-TO-ONE TO ATTRACT THESE PEOPLE IS YES, WE'RE PUTTING 'EM ON THE SAME LEVEL FOR, 'CAUSE THE REALITY IS THIS, YOU HAVE IT IN HERE SO THAT, UM, THEY GO INTO FIELD TRAINING, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE IT. WE'RE NOT GONNA KEEP 'EM WHETHER YOU'RE EXPERIENCED OR NOT. I JUST, I I GUESS I'M, I'M HAVING TROUBLE WRAPPING MY HEAD AROUND THE NEED FOR THIS OTHER CLASS OF OFFICER. UM, WELL I THINK, AND I GUESS I, I GUESS THAT'S WHAT'S CONCERNING ME THE MOST TOO, IS ARE WE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT ON THIS? SOMETHING THAT MAY HAPPEN VERY OFTEN AT ALL. YEAH. SO THE BASIC PREMISE TO THE ALTERNATE HIRING IS THAT YOU'RE TAKING AN OFFICER FROM ANOTHER AGENCY AND SAYING IF YOU HAVE SEVEN YEARS OVER HERE, IT'S EQUIVALENT TO SEVEN YEARS IN THE BAYTOWN PD. AND SO THE QUESTION IS THAT ALWAYS THE CASE? OUR THINKING IS THERE'S POTENTIALLY TIMES AGENCIES, WHATEVER, WHERE SOMEONE'S BEEN THERE FOR SEVEN YEARS, BUT THAT LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE ISN'T THE SAME LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE AS A SEVEN YEAR OFFICER AT THE BAYTOWN PD TO SAY Y'ALL ARE EQUIVALENT FROM OVER ONE TO ONE. SO THAT, I MEAN THAT'S THE BASIC PREMISE OF IT. YOU KNOW, IF IF Y'ALL ARE LIKE, MAN, WE SEE IT ALL THE SAME, THE SAME, THE SAME, OKAY, THEN, THEN MAYBE IT'S NOT AN ISSUE THAT'S THAT. BUT THAT WAS THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHEN YOU CONSIDER. I THINK ALSO THE ISSUE COULD BE THOUGH, IS THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU COME FROM A LARGER AGENCY, LET'S JUST SAY HPD, BECAUSE YOU COME FROM THAT LARGER AGENCY WHERE YOU SHOULD HAVE THIS EXPERIENCE, YOU'RE STILL GONNA COME OVER AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA EVEN MAKE IT HERE AT THIS AGENCY. 'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET THROUGH OUR FIELD TRAINING PROGRAM YET. WE ACCREDITED THEM BECAUSE THEY CAME FROM HOUSTON THOUGH. UM, WHERE SOMEBODY CAME FROM A SMALLER AGENCY. WELL THAT GETS BACK TO THE PARAMETERS THOUGH. MAYBE NOT. IF THE HOUSTON GUY DID NOTHING BUT FLIP A SWITCH ON A BRIDGE SOMEWHERE AND THAT'S WHAT HE DID FOR THE LAST SIX OR SEVEN, WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T BECAUSE WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT POPULATION. AND CAROL MAY RECALL, WE, WE, WE WENT THROUGH THIS PREVIOUS NEGOTIATION, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS. HOW LONG HAS THAT PROVISION BEEN IN THE CONTRACT NOW? IS IT THREE YEARS OR SIX YEARS? IT'S BEEN IN SO FAR. TWO FOR ONE NOW. THE TWO FOR ONE NOW. HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN BEEN CONTRACT? I THINK IT'S BEEN, YEAH, MORE THAN JUST THIS WEDNESDAY. PROBABLY SIX YEARS. AT LEAST SIX YEARS. PROBABLY FROM 16. AND THAT'S A VERY COMMON PRACTICE HONESTLY FOR LATERAL HIRES. OKAY. SO IT'S A PRETTY COMMON PRACTICE. WHEN HAS IT BEEN AN ISSUE? WHEN HAVE WE HIRED SOMEBODY THAT WE THOUGHT, AH, THEY REALLY SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN IT. AND I WOULD SAY THE DIFFERENCE IS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S THE TWO TO ONE. SO YOU'RE ALWAYS ALREADY KIND OF ACCOUNTING FOR OKAY, THERE MAY BE A, A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE OVER HERE VERSUS EXPERIENCE HERE. SO THE TWO TO ONE IS, IS KIND OF PROBABLY WHY WE ENDED UP THERE THE LAST TIME OF OF TO SAY, OKAY, HOW DO WE KIND OF LEVEL THE PLAYING, MAKE SURE WE HAVE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. BECAUSE PART OF THIS IS WE'RE TRYING TO RECRUIT, BUT WE ALSO WANT TO REALLY HONOR AND RESPECT OUR CURRENT OFFICERS. RIGHT? I MEAN, 'CAUSE IF, IF AN OFFICER'S LIKE, MAN, I'VE BUSTED MY BUTT HERE IN BAYTOWN FOR SEVEN YEARS AND I KNOW WHERE I'M AT IN AND Y'ALL JUST HIRED JOE AND RIGHT. AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHY WE ENDED UP WITH THAT TWO TO ONE WAS TO KIND OF OTHER LOWER THAT OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM. LIKE I SAY, WE TRUST THIS CHIEF, NEXT CHIEF COMES FROM DPS, THAT CHIEF JUST MAKES UP HIS OR HER MINE. DPS IS THE ONLY AGENCY I'M GONNA GIVE THIS CREDIT TO. WHAT'S THE RECOURSE THEN WHAT DO WE COME BACK TO THE TABLE AND TRY TO DO SOMETHING WITH A CONTRACT ? WELL THAT'S WHERE THE PARAMETERS COME IN. THAT WOULD BE, I THINK IT WOULD BE ADVANTAGEOUS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PARAMETERS TO SPEAKING TO THAT. AND OF COURSE IF, IF SOMEBODY STARTED DOING THAT FOR EVERY AGENCY EXCEPT DPS, THEY WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF THAT, OF THE CONTRACT. UH, BECAUSE THAT WOULD NOT FOLLOW THIS. AND BY THE WAY, WHILE WE'RE AT IT, THERE WAS ANOTHER QUESTION WE HAD ON THIS SECTION. I DON'T WANNA FORGET TO BRING IT UP. CAN I, CAN I ASK A QUESTION ON THIS? HOW DO THE TROOPS FEEL ABOUT, I'VE BEEN HERE, I'VE DONE MY TIME WITH BAYTOWN, I'VE BEEN A LOYAL OFFICER. ARE ARE, ARE, IS IT GOING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS AND MORALE ISSUES IF WE BRING SOMEBODY IN WHO, WHO COMES FROM A REALLY SLOW PLACE BUT WE'RE BRINGING THEM IN AT THE SAME PAY AS A SIX OR SEVEN YEAR OFFICER? I DON'T THINK THEY LOOK AT THE PAY BECAUSE THEY STILL COME IN, THEY LOST ALL THEIR SENIORITY. THEY'RE STARTING OUT AS THE DAY ONE OFFICER HERE. AND THAT'S WHAT THE GUYS CON ARE CONCERNED ABOUT. IF THEY WOULD COME OVER AS A SEVEN YEAR OFFICER AND BE ABLE TO BUMP THAT OFFICER OFF OF A DIFFERENT SHIFT OR BE ABLE TO PUT IN FOR A SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT DAY ONE AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT'S WHERE THERE'D BE HEARTBURN. SO I DON'T LOOK AT THE NEXT GUY'S PAYCHECK AND SAY, OH MAN, HE GETS JUST AS MUCH MONEY AS I DO. SO YOU SAY THE REASON I'M ASKING THAT QUESTION THOUGH, I'M NOT SAYING IF THE TRAINING DEPARTMENT DOES THEIR JOB CORRECTLY, THEN WE WON'T BE STUCK WITH, YOU KNOW, POOR OFFICERS. RIGHT. IT'S TRUE. GETTING PAID THAT AMOUNT. [00:35:01] WELL, AND IT COULD ALSO BE, YOU KNOW, A CONSIDERATION IN THE HIRING. WELL, I MEAN THE ONE TO ONE, THE THE ONE-TO-ONE, THE WHOLE REASON WE BROUGHT THIS UP IS TO ATTRACT PEOPLE. MM-HMM . NOW I UNDERSTAND SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE AREN'T THE PEOPLE WE WANT TO ATTRACT. I I GET THAT . BUT IT'S, IT'S, WE'RE WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE MASSES TO AT LEAST LOOK AT US THEN WE PUT FAITH IN OR OR PROCESS OF HIRING, RIGHT? ALL THE BACKGROUND STUFF WE DO, UM, THE INVESTIGATIONS DONE THERE, THE TESTING, THEN WE GOT FIELD TRAINING, WE HAVE MECHANISMS IN PLACE TO GET THE SEVEN YEAR GUY WHO HAS NO EXPERIENCE PROBABLY IS NOT GONNA BEAT OUT THE, THE HARD CHARGER FROM DPS. IT JUST, IT'S SET UP IN SUCH A WAY. I THINK THERE IT IS STILL FAIR. I'M NOT CREATING A SECOND CLASS. AND, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF THAT GUY WHO'S NOT DONE MUCH HIS WHOLE YEAR, BUT IT'S GOT SEVEN YEARS AND HE BEATS EVERYBODY ELSE 'CAUSE THEY FAILED OUT ONE, WHAT WAS THE BEST ON THE LIST? I MEAN, IT IS WHAT IT IS. OR LIKE YOU SAID, WE'VE HAD INSTANCES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE COME FROM, YOU KNOW, SCHOOL DISTRICT AGENCIES OR OTHER AGENCIES THAT HAVE BEEN BETTER THAN PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME FROM OH YEAH. AND AGAIN, THAT GETS, THAT'S WHAT GETS DOWN TO THE PARAMETERS THOUGH. YOU KNOW, AND I, I I I'LL SAY THIS, WE DID HAVE ONE THAT CAME TO US THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY CERTIFIED THAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE GREAT AND HE KNEW THAT HE WAS NOT DOING WELL AND HE SELF-SELECTED OUT RECENTLY. BUT STILL I GUY WITH NO EXPERIENCE CAN BEAT EVERYBODY OUT. ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO GET. THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IS EXPERIENCE. WELL I, I GUESS I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU'RE WANTING, IF WE GO TO A ONE-TO-ONE, YOU'RE SAYING, HEY LOOK, WE'RE, WE'RE PUTTING YOU ON EQUAL FOOTING WITH THE THE TRIED AND TRUE GUYS HERE. THAT WAS NOT OUR INTENT IN PROPOSING OUR INTENT IN PROPOSING WHAT WAS TO HAVE A BIG KNEE ON FLASHING SIGNS SAYS LOOK WHAT WE DO COME HERE. IT'S, I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE TRYING TO ATTRACT AS MANY AS POSSIBLE MOST OF OUR NUMBERS AND WE'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING WITH OUR HIRING PRACTICES OR REQUIREMENTS. SAME STANDARD. UM, BUT WE TRUST THEM TO WORK. AND SO CAN I ASK A QUESTION FOR CLARIFICATION ON THE SENIORITY THING THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT? UM, SO I'M NOT SURE DOES LIKE, SOMEHOW WE'VE GOT A RECORD AT THE PD WHERE WE PAY THEM SAY AS A SEVEN YEAR, BUT WE TREAT THEM LIKE A ONE YEAR SENIORITY WHEN IT COMES TO ASSIGNMENTS AND PICKING UP OKAY. SO INTERNET PAGE. THEY'RE A SENIORITY LIST. A SENIORITY, BUT, AND THEY, THEY'VE RANKED THAT WE HAVE A HIGHER SENIOR OFF, BUT THEY'RE AT THE VERY BOTTOM STILL ON THE SENIORITY. OKAY. THAT'S THEY'RE STARTING COMPLETELY OVER. WHAT'S THAT? OH YEAH, IT DOESN'T MATTER. SO HERE'S WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE, UM, ON THIS ARTICLE THEN IT IS JUST TO KIND OF REVIEW WHAT, WHAT WE'VE GIVEN BRING BACK. THINK ABOUT IT. IF IF Y'ALL THINK THERE'S SOME APPROPRIATE WORDING TO PUT IN THERE, BRING THAT BACK. IF NOT, IF YOU WANNA STICK WITH WHAT YOU PREVIOUSLY WILL CONSIDER THAT THIS IS NOT ONE THAT, UM, THIS ONE'S NOT CONTENTIOUS. WE'RE ALL, WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO THE SAME PLACE. IT'S, IT'S JUST WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE. LIKE I SAID, WE KIND OF HAD ONE PERSPECTIVE, Y'ALL HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. UM, CERTAINLY LIKE THE CHIEF ASKED IF IT'S NOT, UM, SOMETHING THAT ULTIMATELY YOU FEEL LIKE IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANNA PUT ONE THING IN PLACE AND CREATE A DIFFERENT PROBLEM. YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT WAS REALLY KIND OF OUR PERSPECTIVE. AND SO JUST BOTH SIDES TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND JUST FIGURING OUT, OKAY, LET'S MAKE SURE WE'RE TAKING THE RIGHT STEP FORWARD. RIGHT. WE'LL WE'LL CONSIDER THAT AT THE NEXT QUESTION. THE OTHER QUESTION THAT CAME UP ON THIS, YES. IN, IN A, WE UNDERSTAND INDIVIDUAL HAS TO HAVE BEEN EMPLOYED BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS FOR THIS TO APPLY, BUT THEN DOES THE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, IS IT CUMULATIVE IF THEY'VE HAD TWO DEPARTMENTS IN THAT SEVEN YEARS, DOES DO WE COMBINE THAT OR DOES IT ALL HAVE TO BE WITH THAT LAST AGENCY IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR I I AND I I DON'T, DO WE EVEN KNOW IF WE'VE HAD A SITUATION LIKE THAT? YES. HOW HAS IT BEEN APPLIED SO FAR? LAST AGENCY ONLY, NOT CUMULATIVE. ONLY THE LAST AGENCY. YEAH. I WOULD READ THAT FROM THE, HAVE BEEN EMPLOYED WITH LICENSED AGENCIES. SO DOESN'T SAY AGENCIES. RIGHT. BUT THIS IS OUR CURRENT YEAH. THE, THE LANGUAGE AT THE TOP OF THE CHART ON THE CURRENT CONTRACT. UM, IT SAYS AS A PEACE OFFICER IN THE IMMEDIATELY PROCEEDING LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. SO IT'S RESTRICTED JUST TO THAT ONE. RIGHT, RIGHT. AND WE, WE INTENTIONALLY LEFT THAT LANGUAGE OUT OF OUR PROPOSAL BECAUSE OKAY, THE IMMEDIATE PROCEEDING, IF I'VE BEEN AT HARRIS COUNTY FOR THREE YEARS AND I WENT TO DP S3 YEARS WHEN I CAME HERE, I'M ONLY GETTING THREE YEARS CREDIT, BUT I'M A SIX YEAR OFFICER. WE'VE GOT A COUPLE PEOPLE FALL INTO THAT, UM, THAT WE'VE HIRED. SO WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT. JUST IF YOU HAVE THAT'S, I WAS LIKE, BUT YOU [00:40:01] PUT IT IN, THAT'S CU YEARS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE WITH NO BREAK GREATER THAN SIX MONTHS. AND AND I'M GOOD WITH THAT BECAUSE IF WE'VE GOT A DEPARTMENT HOPPER, THERE'S GONNA BE SOMETHING ELSE THAT WILL SHOW UP IN ITS BACKGROUND OR HER BACKGROUND THAT WILL SHOW WHY THEY'RE LEAVING AGENCIES. UH, AND WITH THE NEW RULE FROM T COLE, THAT PE THAT THE AGENCIES HAVE TO OPEN UP THEIR RECORDS TO US ONLINE. I THINK THAT WILL ITSELF. NO, I ACTUALLY DID PUT IMMEDIATE LEAVE PROCEEDING. BUT FROM ACTUAL CHART? YEAH. UNDER A, WE WERE GOING OFF OF THAT AGENCY ON THAT ONE AND I BELIEVE THE EXAMPLE WAS, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE OFFICER, BUT THEY HAD LIKE SEVEN YEARS TOTAL EXPERIENCE. WE CAN'T CLOSE IT. THEY DON'T WANT TO CLOSE IT. OH, OKAY. BUT IT HAD BEEN FIVE YEARS AT ONE AGENCY AND THEN THEY LEFT AND WENT TO A NEW AGENCY. THEY WERE THERE FOR TWO YEARS. SO THEY CAME OVER AS A ONE YEAR OFFICER AS OPPOSED TO LIKE A THREE YEAR. YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S THE MOST RECENT EXAMPLE I CAN REMEMBER. AND AGAIN, WE ADVERTISE THAT IN RECRUITING. OBVIOUSLY WE TELL 'EM LOOK, ALL YOUR EXPERIENCE COUNTS AS OPPOSED TO JUST THE LAST MAKES SENSE. SIX MONTHS IF YOU GUYS ARE OKAY WITH, UH, IF THERE'S NOT A LONGER THAN SIX MONTH BREAK BETWEEN THOSE TWO AGENCIES. YEAH. 'CAUSE I THINK OVER SIX MONTHS, OVER SIX MONTHS THERE'S SOME T COLE STUFF THAT KICKS IN. OKAY, GOOD. OKAY. UM, THE LAST ONE ALL OF MADE SOME PROGRESS TODAY WE MAY, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF Y'ALL. THIS IS, UH, THE DURATION OF THE AGREEMENTS PORTION. UM, WE ALREADY HAD A TA BUT IT WAS WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE THE DATE. UM, SO THE ARTICLE NINE, WE JUST DISCUSSED A COUPLE OTHERS. THERE'S ONLY THE LEAD SIGNING OFF ON THESE OR WE YEAH, JUST UH, JUST THE TWO LEADS. THEN THERE WERE SOME OTHER ONES WE JUST WANTED TO DELIVER THE BAD NEWS ON. OKAY. DID WE GET THE ACTUAL TAS ON ALL THE ARTICLES? NO, THOSE ARTICLE 10 Y'ALL PROVIDED THE WATER BILL CREDIT WHERE WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO DO THAT. THAT THAT'S GOING. UH, ANYONE. SOME PEOPLE PAY, SOME PEOPLE GET WATER BILL CREDIT. THE PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION. I KNOW THAT BE LEGAL, NOT INTERESTED. THERE'S CERTAIN CARVE OUTS IN TEXAS LAW WHEN PEOPLE GET PROPERTY AS THE LAW TAX EXEMPT AND ALL OF THEM REQUIRE THEM TO BE PAID AND REBATE SO THAT THE STATE GETS THEIR, THEIR ACCOUNTING AND THEIR POWER. UM, SO WE DON'T THINK, SO THE STATE GETS THEIR MONEY BUT THE CITY DOESN'T . OKAY. UM, AND THEN ALSO ON BILINGUAL K, WHICH WAS YOUR ARTICLE 17, UM, WE HAD, Y'ALL HAD ASKED EXPANDING TO ANY LANGUAGE. UM, AND WE HAD TALKED ABOUT AT LEAST EXPANDING TO THE LANGUAGES THAT ARE ON OUR LOCAL BALLOT. UM, AND SO WE DO HAVE THE CURRENT CITYWIDE POLICY FOR BILINGUAL PAY. AND SO WE WOULD PROPOSE THAT WE STAY WITH THAT, BUT WE WILL EXPAND THAT POLICY, UM, TO BE THE SAME. SO IT EXPANDS IT TO THE LANGUAGES CO COVERED ON THE BALLOTS. DO YOU KNOW OFFHAND WHAT LANGUAGES ARE COVERED? IT'S ENGLISH, SPANISH, I BELIEVE. MANDARIN VIETNAMESE. AND THERE'S ONE MORE. THERE'S ANYBODY, ANYBODY. I'M GUESSING IT'S GONNA BE THE SAME FIVE LANGUAGES IN WHICH YOU CAN TAKE THE TEXAS DRIVER'S LICENSE EXAM. YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON POPULATION. YEAH, IT'S BASED ON THE POPUL ON YOUR POPULATIONS OF YOUR COMMUNITY. TEXAS IT'S FIVE LANGUAGES. CALIFORNIA'S LIKE 27 . GOOD LORD. THE DRIVING TEST [00:45:02] YOU GAVE SIX. SO THERE'S FIVE LANGUAGES THAT WE, 25 IT'S GONNA EXPAND. ALRIGHT. AND THEN THE COST OF LIVING, THAT'S THE WORDING WE'RE GONNA CHANGE. WE I CAN GET THOSE FROM I DID. THAT'S FINE. PREVIOUS ARTICLE NINE WORDING IN BLUE AND YOU PRINT OUT THE NEW LANGUAGE. YEAH, THIS IS ALL THE SAME. YEAH. ALONG WITH THE, OKAY. AND WHILE TREVOR'S WORKING ON THAT, UM, I WANTED TO CIRCLE BACK TO ARTICLE 24, THE ASSOCIATION DUES DEDUCTION. MM-HMM . UM, SOME COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE WERE WHAT IS IN HERE. SO I JUST WANTED, SO THE FIRST PARAGRAPH THAT Y'ALL PRESENTED THAT IS WHAT CURRENTLY EXISTS IN THE ASSOCIATION DUES ARTICLE. AND THEN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH IS NEW, WHICH UM, SPEAKS TO THE WIRE TRANSFERS DUE, UM, FOR THE DUES OR ANY OTHER AUTHORIZED PAYROLL DEDUCTION OR PAYMENTS COVERED BY THE AGREEMENT TO THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION DESIGNATED BY THE ACCOUNT ON THE SAME BUSINESS DATE AS THEIR DEDUCTED FROM THE CITY OFFICERS CITY PAYROLL CHECK. SO THAT'S SPEAKING TO WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHAT CAN BE DEDUCTED FROM AN OFFICER'S PAYCHECK AND THEN HOW IT HAS TO BE SENT TO THE ASSOCIATION AND THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE THE LAST TIME WERE AROUND THE KIND OF SIGNUP FORM THING. AND SO THE SIGNUP FORM THING ISN'T ADDRESSED HERE AND THIS IS SOMETHING NEW AND DIFFERENT. SO I JUST YEAH, THERE'S DIFFERENT CLARIFICATION. YEAH, NO, THERE'S DEFINITELY GIMME CLARIFICATION. UH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. OUR INTENT WAS TO PRESENT SOMETHING THAT BASICALLY WE WOULD LIKE Y'ALL TO, UM, GO BACK TO THE WAY YOU USED TO. THEY SIGNED UP, YOU DEDUCTED THEIR MONEY, THEY'LL LET YOU KNOW IF THEY WANT TO GET OUT, IT'S VOLUNTARY TO GET OUT. WHAT YOU'RE REQUIRING 'EM NOW IS TO ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE ON A YEARLY BASIS AND RESIGNING UP THAT THAT'S, THAT WAS OUR INTENT, RIGHT? YEAH. OKAY. TO BREAK THAT. OKAY. OKAY. ARE THEY DOING THAT THOUGH? ARE THEY REQUIRING THEM OR DO THEY SEND THEM SOMETHING ASKING THEM, YES, YOU SEND A, IT'S AN ELECTRONIC, UM, NOTIFICATION. UM, DO YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS? IF SO, YES OR NO. OKAY. AND THEN THEY KNOW TO TAKE OUT THE DUES. UM, YOU DON'T WANNA HAVE THAT RIGHT, BECAUSE HONESTLY IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A UNION BUSTING TOOL IS WHAT IT IS. I MEAN, AND IT CAUSES HEARTBURN. I MEAN, 'CAUSE IF, HOW, HOW I SAY THIS, UM, PRIOR TO THAT BEING IMPLEMENTED, UM, I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH LOSING MEMBERS. ONCE IT GOT IMPLEMENTED, THEN I GET PEOPLE LIKE, NAH, WHATEVER. AND THEN NOW I'VE LOST MEMBERS AND NOW I GOTTA GO CHASE THAT DOWN. RIGHT? IT'S JUST SO, AND I'LL LIKE TO BE HANDHELD. YEAH. SO I'LL TELL YOU THIS. UM, SO WE HAVE CONTINUED TO VISIT THAT ITEM, UM, AND MODIFY THAT. AND WHERE WE HAVE LANDED IS AWAY SO THAT THE ONLY TIME, ONCE THEY ORIGINALLY SIGN UP, THE ONLY TIME THAT THEY HAVE TO, I'M GOING TO SAY QUOTE UNQUOTE SIGN UP AGAIN OUTSIDE OF A NEW MEMBER RIGHT. IS IF YOU CHANGE THE DEDUCTION AMOUNT. SO, OKAY. YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY'RE SIGNING A FORM THAT SAYS YOU CAN DEDUCT $25 AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE LIKE, WE'RE GONNA DEDUCT $26 OR 200 WHATEVER. THEY HAVE TO SIGN [00:50:01] AN AGREEMENT TO THAT. UM, AND SO THAT'S KIND OF, WE'VE CONTINUED TO KIND OF WORK THROUGH THAT AND HAVE FIGURED OUT A WAY. AND THEN, UM, IT'S SENDING AN ANNUAL NOTICE TO REMIND PEOPLE YOU HAVE A DUES DEDUCTION, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING IF YOU'D LIKE TO STOP, HERE'S THE FORM TO STOP. THAT KIND OF THING. BUT OTHERWISE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO CONTINUE TO SIGN UP. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT. THE ONE QUESTION I CAN'T ANSWER RIGHT THIS SECOND IS IF WE CAN OPERATE OFF OF WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE OR IF THAT'S LIKE A NEW THING OF LANGUAGE THAT WE CAN DO IT ONE MORE TIME AND THEN WE'RE DONE. OKAY. THAT, THAT'S THE QUESTION I CAN'T ANSWER. WE MAY BE AT A PLACE WE'RE ALREADY DONE, BUT IT MAY BE THAT WE NEED TO DO THIS ONE LAST ANNUAL THING AND THEN THAT'S IT. BUT THAT'S WHERE WE WILL BE. IT'S, BUT THEN AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CHANGE THE DEDUCTION AMOUNT, IT'LL JUST CONTINUE TO ROLL. OKAY. AND THEN THAT, THAT'S GONNA BE DONE THROUGH CITY PO IT'S THE CITY POLICY THEN Y'ALL JUST, THAT'S HOW YOU'RE GONNA HANDLE IT. YES. OKAY. SO JUST TO BE, JUST TO BE CLEAR RIGHT NOW, AS IT STANDS, IF THEY DON'T SIGN UP YEARLY, THEY GET DROPPED. RIGHT. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING AND I'M THE ONE THAT DEALS WITH THE NUMBERS. SO PRIORLY, THEY GET DROPPED, RIGHT? YEAH. SO I, I THINK WE, I THOUGHT LAST YEAR WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE DID THAT. UH, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT WE, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME. YEAH. YEAH. WE'VE SIGNED UP TWICE I THINK BECAUSE WHEN WE CHANGED OUR DUES, WE HAD TO GO AND INITIAL EVERY, EVERY PAGE AND THEN WE STARTED THIS PROCESS AFTERWARDS, UH, SIGNING UP ELECTRONICALLY. UM, I'M, I'M EVEN GETTING MEMBERS DROPPED RANDOMLY. SO NOW WE'RE TELLING THEM TO CHECK YOUR PAYCHECKS IF IT'S COMING OUT. OKAY. SO IF, SO LIKE I SAID, IT'S THE ANNUAL THING. IT'S, WHAT IT'S BEEN IS IT'S ANNUAL AND THEN IT HAS TO START OVER. AND SO IT'S LIKE EVERYBODY'S CLEARED AND THEN AS THEY ENROLL HERE TOO, THEY'RE ADDED BACK IN. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO STOP THAT. WE'RE TRYING TO STOP THAT. AND I WOULD TELL YOU IF SOMEBODY'S BEEN ENROLLED AND THEY'VE BEEN PAYING, YOU'VE BEEN GETTING THEIR DEDUCTIONS AND SOMETHING HAPPENS, THEN I HOPE YOU'RE CONTACTING PAYROLL. YEAH, YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THEM. . OKAY. OKAY. . SO HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU SAY YOU MIGHT CHANGE YOUR COST OF, OF DUES? WELL, HONESTLY IN THE LAST 20 YEARS WE'VE DONE IT ONCE. UM, AND THIS HAPPENED TO BE LAST YEAR OR SOMETHING? UH, TWO YEARS AGO. TWO YEARS. OKAY. SO PROBABLY WE, WE, NO, SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING OUR STRUCTURE ONE LAST TIME, WHICH MEANS WE'LL NEVER HAVE TO CHANGE IT AGAIN. 'CAUSE IF WE BASE IT OFF INSTEAD OF A SET AMOUNT, IF I BASE IT OFF A PERCENTAGE OF A SALARY, I NEVER HAVE TO TOUCH IT AGAIN BECAUSE IT ANNUALLY GOES UP. IT JUST CHANGES. SO ARE WE ABLE TO DO THAT AS WELL, CAROL? YEAH. FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS IT SET UP LIKE THAT RIGHT NOW. GOOD. IS SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING AT. UM, OKAY. BUT, UM, SO YEAH, POTENTIALLY ONE MORE TIME. UM, BUT I GUESS MY QUESTION TO YOU IS IF THAT'S GONNA BE THEIR CITY POLICY ON HOW THEY'RE GONNA HANDLE IT, THIS IS REALLY A NEED FOR THE ARTICLE AT THAT POINT BECAUSE IT'S ADDRESSING WHAT WE WANTED. YEAH. I DON'T, I DON'T THINK SO. AS, AS LONG AS, AND THERE WERE CERTAIN THINGS I BELIEVE THAT YOU MIGHT NEED THE AGREEMENT TO AUTHORIZE YOU TO DO THE DEDUCTIONS. RIGHT. I WOULD LEAVE THE CURRENT STATE CALL SOMEHOW ARTICLE AS IS. RIGHT. WHICH CALLS FOR THE DUES DEDUCTION. I WOULD LEAVE THAT, I JUST WOULDN'T ADD ANY ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE THIS OR LANGUAGE TO TRY TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE THAT WE WERE TRYING TO ADDRESS. WE WANNA KEEP THE ARTICLE AUTHORIZED THEM TO YES. GO ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT STATE LAW SAYS SO. OKAY. RIGHT. YEAH. OKAY, BECAUSE I, I'VE ALSO, AND I WOULD, TMPA HASN'T RAISED OUR DUES IN 13 YEARS EITHER THAT DAY'S COMING AND SO THAT IT IS ALL MIXED IN HERE AS WELL. SO, SO I WOULD, I WOULD TELL YOU IF Y'ALL CAN TO FIGURE OUT Y'ALL STRUCTURE , WE SYNC IT ALL UP AND GET IT DONE. LET'S JUST STEAL FROM THE PROBLEM IS, IS I GOTTA GET, I GOTTA PUT IT TO THE VOTING MEMBERS AND THAT TAKES A WHILE. YEAH. I MEAN, SO EVEN IF YOU DID IT THE SAME TIME AS THE, THE CONTRACT AND, AND STUFF, SO YOU HAVE YOUR VOTES ALL DONE, THEN WE CAN IMPLEMENT THAT. OBVIOUSLY EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO SIGN UP, BUT THEN IT'S WILL BE ONE AND DONE. OUR DEPARTMENT'S CONTRACT OR WE LOOK AT HPD, HOUSTON'S GOT IT WORK. IT'S LIKE ONE HOUR OF A FIVE YEAR PATROL OFFICER SALARY, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES AS FAR AS 1% OF THE FIRST TIER OF AN EQUIPMENT OPERATOR'S PAY. AND WE WERE, WE WERE LOOKING AT 1% OF A FIRST YEAR OFFICER. I MEAN WE JUST, YEAH. YEAH. BUT AS LONG AS YOU DO THE PERCENTAGE AND TIE IT TO [00:55:01] A SPECIFIC, THEN YOU'RE GOOD. OKAY. DOES EVERYBODY HAVE COPIES OF THE THINGS THAT WE TA'ED ON THOSE SIDES? NO. NO. THEY'RE MAKING THOSE COPIES RIGHT NOW. WE MADE, MADE A COUPLE OF LAST MINUTE, COUPLE OF SIDEBAR CONVERSATIONS GOING ON . OH OKAY. THAT WAS, DID WE GET AN UPDATED 20 SIGNED TODAY? UH, YES. I'LL SAY IT, UH, FOR THE RECORD, BUT OKAY. THE TITLE WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE ARTICLE NUMBER. RIGHT. I HAVE LIKE A PREAPPROVED LIST OF CITIES THAT I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO WORK ON THAT LIEUTENANT'S PROMOTIONAL PROCESS. YOU'VE GOT EVIDENCE RIGHT HERE. IT DOESN'T WORK. IT'S WILDLY FLAWED. THERE'S HOPE FOR ME THOUGH. . ANY OF THE OTHER PROPOSALS Y'ALL HAVE RESPONSES FOR THAT WE PRESENTED NOW MOST OF THEM ARE WRAPPED UP WITH THE, UH, COMPENSATION. COMPENSATION. MM-HMM . OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. AND ARTICLE 11 IS TIED BACK TO THAT AS WELL TOO. YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT SEVEN, I THINK SEVENTH. GOOD ONE. WE'RE STILL UH, FOR RECORD WE HAVE TODAY WE PA ON ARTICLE SIX, ARTICLE EIGHT FIVE, SORRY, I'M NOT EVEN SAYING THIS. ARTICLE SIX, SIGNING ASSESSMENT ARTICLE EIGHT, RELOCATION EXPENSES FOR NEW HIRE. ARTICLE NINE, CLOSING COST REIMBURSEMENT FOR POLICE OFFICER ARTICLE 25 WHICH HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN, UH, TAED ON WHERE TAING AGAIN TODAY CHANGING THE DATE TO MARCH 23RD AND ARTICLE 28, DURATION OF AGREEMENT TO PREVIOUSLY BEEN TA'ED ON WHERE TA ON ATTENTION THE DATES TO THE 22ND. ALRIGHT THEN ITEM [1. c. Consider confirming the time and date for the next meet and confer session.] ONE C IS CONSIDER CONFIRMING THE TIME AND DATE OF OUR NEXT MEET AND CONFER SESSION, WHICH IS SCHEDULED FOR APRIL THE 28TH, 2022 AT 2:00 PM IS THAT STILL? GOT IT. ALRIGHT, WITH THAT WE ADJOURN. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.