[00:00:11]
SO, I NOW CALL THIS, UH, CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION TO ORDER.IT IS THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 11TH.
IT IS 5:35 PM WE ARE IN BAYTOWN CITY HALL.
UH, COUNCIL CHAMBERS, WE DO HAVE A
[a. Discuss a proposed senior living development on Blue Heron Parkway.]
QUORUM.WE HAVE ITEM ONE A, DISCUSS A PROPOSED SENIOR LIVING DEVELOPMENT ON BLUE HERON PARKWAY.
UH, THANK YOU MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
UH, SO TONIGHT, UM, WE HAVE, UH, MR. TEAL, EXCUSE ME, MY BRAIN'S, UH, SOMEWHERE ELSE TODAY.
UH, MR. TEAL IS HERE TONIGHT TO, UH, DISCUSS, UH, AN INITIAL PROPOSAL FOR A 13 ACRE PARCEL THAT IS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF BLUE HERON, UH, NEXT TO THE SCHOOL.
SO, UM, BEYOND THAT, I'M GONNA LET HIM, UH, DISCUSS THE, THE REST OF THE PROPOSAL FOR YOU, MR. THI.
UH, I CURRENTLY LIVE IN HOUSTON.
I ACTUALLY GREW UP IN HIGHLANDS, TEXAS, IF YOU KNOW WHERE THAT IS.
AND, UH, WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL AT ROBERT E. LEE.
AND I'VE DEVELOPED SOME, UH, APARTMENTS AND THINGS OVER THE LAST, UH, 20 YEARS.
STONEBROOK WAS ONE OF MY DEVELOPMENTS MANY YEARS AGO.
AND, UH, WE ACTUALLY, UH, CAME TO THE COUNCIL, I GUESS THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO, YOU MAY REMEMBER, AND HAD A PROPOSAL.
AND EVEN IN, IN THAT, UH, SCENARIO, WE, UH, WE HAD SOME NEIGHBORS THAT SAID, HEY, IF YOU WOULD, UH, DO A SENIOR PROJECT, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE A WHOLE LOT BETTER THAN WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING.
SO I'M, UH, I'M NOT REAL SMART, BUT I FIGURE THAT I WON'T TRY THE SAME THING TWICE ANYWAY.
AND WHAT I'VE DONE IS, UH, I HAVE RECENTLY DEVELOPED A, UH, A SENIOR PROJECT IN MONT BELLEVUE CALLED THE RETREAT AT BARBERS HILL.
AND THIS IS A, UM, IT'S AN AGE RESTRICTED PROPERTY, MEANING YOU HAVE TO BE, ONE OF THE SPOUSES MUST BE 62 YEARS OR OLDER WOW.
THIS IS A, UH, HOUSING URBAN DEVELOPMENT HUD LOAN.
IT IS A MARKET RATE TRANSACTION.
IT'S BASICALLY LIKE HUD GUARANTEES THE LOAN MUCH AS THEY WOULD, UH, GUARANTEE THE LOAN ON A HOUSE.
BUT THERE'S IS THAT, NO, EXCUSE ME.
I, I, I THOUGHT MAYBE YOU WEREN'T HEARING ME.
UH, SO ANYWAY, IT'S A, IT'S A HUD INSURED LOAN, BASICALLY.
UH, AND, UH, IT'S CALLED A TWO 20 1D FOUR, UH, PROJECT.
SO THAT'S, UH, THAT'S THE CONCEPT AS FAR AS THE FINANCING IS CONCERNED.
AND, UH, THE BLUE HERRING COTTAGES ARE ON, OBVIOUSLY, WE, WE'VE GOT BLUE HERRING PARKWAY, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS A, A GREAT NAME FOR THE PARKWAY.
AND AS YOU'LL SEE, IT'S AN ACTIVE SENIOR LUXURY LIVING PROJECT TO ORIENT YOU AND I, I'M SURE ALL OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS, BUT YOU'LL SEE THE 13 ACRE APARTMENT SITE, BOTH, UM, I'VE GOT 13 ACRES ON THE NORTH SIDE OF BLUE HERON AND 23 ACRES.
THE CITY ACTUALLY BOUGHT ABOUT 17 ACRES FOR A DETENTION POND AND THE PARK AND THE, AND THE 17 ACRES DETENTION POND IS A, IS A TRACK THAT, UH, THE CITY PURCHASED, UH, FROM ME, I DON'T KNOW, 10, WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHENEVER THEY BUILT BLUE HERN PARKWAY, MAYBE, WHAT, SIX YEARS AGO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UH, HERE'S A, A CLOSER UP AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH.
YOU SEE THE 13.3 ON THE NORTHERLY SIDE, UH, THE SCHOOL OVER TO THE LEFT, UH, THE 23.9 ACRES IS ON THE SOUTHERLY SIDE, AND YOU CAN SEE THE DETENTION PARK AREA TO THE RIGHT.
AND, AND THERE'S A WALKWAY AROUND THAT 23.9 ACRES, WHICH PROVIDES A REALLY, A NICE AMENITY TO MM-HMM
TO ALL THE PROPERTIES AS FAR AS TO PROVIDING A WALKWAY AND A, AND A WALKING PATH, UH, FOR A SENIOR PROJECT.
ANYWAY, THE, UM, THIS IS A TENTATIVE SITE PLAN.
UH, THESE ARE WHAT I CALL COTTAGES.
I'VE GOT SOME ELEVATIONS IN A MINUTE, BUT THEY'LL BASICALLY BE ONE AND TWO BEDROOM, UH, COTTAGES WITH, UH, ATTACHED GARAGES.
AND, AND EACH OF THOSE WILL HAVE AN ATTACHED GARAGE.
WHEN THE, UH, WHEN THE CITY PURCHASED THE, UH, THE DETENTION FROM ME, THEY ALLOWED, I THINK IT'S 250 FEET TO THE NORTH OF THE BLUE HERON PARKWAY.
THAT AREA IS WITHIN THE CITY'S DETENTION AREA.
I HAVEN'T DONE CIVIL ENGINEERING YET ON THIS, BUT I'M CERTAIN I'M GONNA HAVE SOME DETENTION.
SO WE'RE GONNA TRY TO MAKE THE DETENTION A WATER FEATURE.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE, ON THE LEFT, THERE'S A, THERE'S A PUTTING GREEN OUT THERE, AND THEN KIND OF A LITTLE BARBECUE CABANA AREA.
UH, WE HAVEN'T REALLY, AGAIN, I'LL HAVE TO GET INTO CIVIL ENGINEERING BEFORE I CAN TIE DOWN EXACTLY WHAT THAT DETENTION IS AND WHETHER OR NOT I CAN MAKE IT A WATER FEATURE.
I'M NOT, IT DEPENDS ON THE ELEVATIONS AND THE OUTFALLS.
AND, AND I DON'T HAVE THOSE NUMBERS RIGHT NOW.
[00:05:01]
I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN HAVE DETENTION AS A WATER FEATURE AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE A PUTTING GREEN OUT THERE.THERE'S A SWIMMING POOL IN THE MIDDLE.
I'VE GOT A LIST OF THE AMENITIES AT THE END OF THE PRESENTATION, AND I'VE PROVIDED SOME HARD COPIES FOR YOU FOLKS.
UH, ANOTHER THING AFTER THE LAST, UH, THOUGHT PROCESS THAT WE HAD WITH THE NEIGHBORS TO THE NORTH, UH, I'VE, YOU CAN'T SEE IT VERY WELL BECAUSE OF THE SCALE, BUT I'M MAINTAINING A 50 FOOT TREE SCREEN.
THE, THE PROPERTY, BOTH THE 13 ACRES AND THE 23 ACRES ARE BOTH HEAVILY WOODED.
AND IF WE MAINTAIN AS MUCH AS WE CAN ANYWAY, THAT 50 FOOT TREE SCREEN TO TRY TO KEEP THAT NATURAL, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT MY UTILITY LINES WILL DO, BUT CERTAINLY OUTTA 50 FEET, I CAN MAINTAIN 30, I'M SURE OF NATURAL WOODED AREA, AND, AND HOPEFULLY I CAN MAINTAIN THE WHOLE 50 AGAIN, THAT GETS DOWN INTO THE DETAILS ON THE THING.
UH, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE HOW THERE WILL BE, THE COTTAGES WOULD BE FOUR TO SIX UNITS IN, IN EACH BUILDING.
UH, HERE'S A TYPICAL ELEVATION.
UM, MARK MU CASEY IS THE ARCHITECT, AND THEY HAVE DEVELOPED THIS SAME CONCEPT.
OH, UH, DOWN IN CLEAR LAKE, THERE'S SOME PROPERTIES CALLED EL DORADO, IN FACT, UM, WINDHAM PARK, WHICH YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH MM-HMM
MARK MU CASEY DID THAT DEVELOPMENT, AND HE WOULD BE THE ARCHITECT HERE.
SOME OF THESE SIX PLACE COTTAGES, IF YOU WILL, ARE WHAT, UH, MARK HAS DONE OVER THERE WITH KEN BRINKLEY ON, UH, ON ROLLING BROOK.
SO THE, UH, WHAT I LIKE ABOUT 'EM IS YOU'LL SEE THAT LOWER ELEVATION SHOWS THREE GARAGES, AND THE OTHER SIDE ALSO SHOWS THREE GARAGES.
BUT THEN THE FRONT, YOU HAVE A, A REALLY A, A RESIDENTIAL LOOK TO IT WITHOUT THE GARAGES IN THE FRONT.
NOW, I'LL SHOW YOU SOME IN A MINUTE THAT I'VE DEVELOPED IN MONT BELLEVUE, THAT WE HAVE GOT THE GARAGES IN THE FRONT, AND THEY'RE NOT TOTALLY OUTTA LINE.
THIS IS, UH, SIMPLY SOME, UM, DIFFERENT KIND OF MATERIALS AND BUILDING MATERIALS THAT WE HAVE USED THAT YOU CAN SEE.
THIS IS A, ACTUALLY A FRONT PORTION OF THE RETREAT AT MONT BELLEVUE.
WE JUST PUT THOSE FLOWERS IN LAST WEEK, AND I'M KIND OF HOPING THEY'LL BAKE IT THROUGH THE NEXT WEEK, BUT I'M NOT SURE OF IT RIGHT NOW.
THIS IS AN ACTUAL ELEVATION OF THE COTTAGES IN, UH, IN MONT BELLEVUE OFF EAGLE DRIVE.
AND THE SAME TYPE OF MATERIALS YOU CAN SEE THERE, BASICALLY HARDY PLANK, SOME SHOWING YOU, THIS IS AN ACTUAL PHOTOGRAPH OF ONE OF 'EM.
WE'VE JUST FINISHED THIS PROJECT AND, UH, YOU'LL SEE WE'VE GOT SOME SHINGLES ON THE, ON THE FACADE AS WELL AS HARDY PLANK.
AND THEN, UH, NOW THE AUSTIN STONE.
WE, WE MAY DO BRICK, BUT IT'LL BE SOME TYPE OF MASONRY WORK'S.
ALL I CAN TELL YOU, UH, UH, JUST A, A CLOSER VIEW OF, OF ONE OF THE ACTUAL COTTAGES, UH, IN MONT BELLEVUE.
AND THEN HERE'S THE, THE FLOOR PLAN.
YOU CAN SEE IF I CAN, UH, POINT, I CAN'T DO A LOT OF POINTING, BUT IF YOU LOOK ON, ON THE ENDS, YOU'LL SEE THE GARAGES, HOW THEY'RE TUCKED IN THREE GARAGES ON EACH END WITH THE SIX COTTAGES.
AND SO THE FRONT AND THE BACK ARE REALLY RESIDENTIAL LOOKING ELEVATIONS, AS WE SAW JUST A MINUTE AGO ON THAT.
HERE'S A, A LIST OF AMENITIES.
UH, PRETTY MUCH WHAT WE'VE DONE AT, AT BARBERS HILL, A LARGER CLUBHOUSE THAN TYPICAL, AND I REALLY HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF UNITS, BUT IT WOULD, IT'D PROBABLY BE ABOUT 10 UNITS TO THE ACRES.
SO ON, ON 13 ACRES, IT, IT WOULD BE 120 TO 130 UNITS.
AGAIN, TRYING TO FINALIZE THAT SITE PLAN AND DETENTION AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS WOULD KIND OF NAIL THAT DOWN.
BUT WE'D BE SOMEWHERE IN THAT ONE 20 TO ONE 30 RANGE.
OUTDOOR PAVILIONS, BARBECUE PITS.
WE'VE GOT AN OUTDOOR FIRE PIT, WHICH IS KIND OF A NEAT THING.
AND PUTTING GREENS, DOG PARKS, EVERYBODY'S GOTTA HAVE A DOG PARK NOWADAYS.
AND THE WALKING PATH, AS I SAID, WE, WE'VE ALREADY GOT 23 ACRES WITH A, A PATH AROUND IT.
WE, WE DO PUT IN A, A SALON AND WE HAVE A, A MEDICAL EXAM ROOM THAT YOU JUST HAVE A, OH, A CLINIC COME IN ONCE A WEEK AND, AND THE RESIDENTS CAN MAKE APPOINTMENTS.
UH, WE DON'T REALLY CHARGE FOR THE, FOR THAT SERVICE, IT'S JUST A SERVICE TO THE, UH, TO THE RESIDENTS LIBRARY.
COFFEE BARS, AND WE HAVEN'T DONE THIS, BUT WE'RE PLANNING ON DOING HERE, UH, 10 FOOT CEILINGS THROUGHOUT THE PROJECT, UH, WOULD BE ALL OF THEM.
USUALLY WE'VE DONE NINE FOOT CEILINGS.
AND, AND, UH, I ACTUALLY ASKED MY, UH, GENERAL CONTRACTOR TO SEE IF HE COULD COME HERE TONIGHT WITH ME.
HE'S BEEN, HE WAS MY PARTNER ON MONT BELLEVUE AND PROBABLY HE'LL BE THE CONTRACTOR HERE.
HE MAY NOT BE A PARTNER, BUT HE'D BE THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR.
AND IT'S KINDA LIKE, YOU KNOW, NINE FOOT CEILINGS OR 10 FOOT CEILINGS, YOUR COST IS IN THE SLAB IN THE ROOF.
AND SO, UH, WE GOTTA CUT A STUD DOWN
[00:10:01]
IF WE BUY 10 FOOT STUD.SO IT'S LIKE, I THINK THAT'LL BE A, A BETTER FIELD THAN WHAT WE HAVE ACTUALLY IN, IN BARBERS HILL RIGHT NOW.
EACH ONE, 'EM WILL HAVE ATTACHED GARAGES AND, UM, YOU KNOW, SINGLE GREAT ROOM, KITCHEN, THAT TYPE THING.
SO THAT IS ABOUT THE PRESENTATION.
UH, YOU'VE GOT SOME HARD COPIES.
AND CERTAINLY I'M LOVE TO HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS OR SUGGESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE TO IMPROVE THE OVERALL PROPOSAL.
ALRIGHT, MR. TILT, I'LL TELL YOU, I MEAN, IT, IT CERTAINLY LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE A GREAT PROJECT THAT YOU PRESENTED.
UM, I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM COUNCIL NEEDS SOME, SOME INPUT ON THAT.
SO 62 PLUS, UM, USUALLY WE HAVE A 55 PLUS, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, UH, WHAT THAT IS, MAYOR IS THE HUD REQUIREMENTS.
WHEN THEY DO THE FINANCING, THEY GO TO 62 PLUS.
AND SO THAT, THAT IS INTERESTING.
AND, AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT I THINK, UM, THESE TYPE OF PROJECTS WITH THE RETIREES, THE RETIREES THAT WE HAVE, UH, HERE AMONGST OUR CITIZENS, UH, THIS WILL PROVIDE A, A REALLY GOOD, UH, LIVING OPTION FOR, FOR THOSE THAT WANNA STAY IN BAYTOWN.
UM, THE AMENITIES HERE I THINK ARE CERTAINLY SEEN FIRST CLASS, SO I DO APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT IN CONSIDERING BAYTOWN.
SO WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO HEAR SURELY FROM COUNCIL MEMBERS.
SO I THINK THIS WILL BE, THIS PROPOSED SITE WOULD BE IN DISTRICT FOUR.
I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM COUNCIL MEMBER BIDDEN COURT, AND THEN WE HAVE FROM EVERYONE ELSE.
QUICK, QUICK REMINDER FOR MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
IS THAT THE REASON MR. THIEL IS HERE TONIGHT? BECAUSE HE WILL NEED A REZONE IN ORDER TO OKAY.
SO, UM, JUST TRYING TO KIND OF GET A FEEL FOR, FOR, UH, THE ATMOSPHERE TOWARDS THIS TYPE OF PROJECT.
WHAT'S IT ZONED RIGHT NOW? UH, IT IS ZONED OR, YES, IT'S PROBABLY SO OPEN SPACE RECREATION'S BROUGHT IN THIS, UM, SO WHAT YOU SHOWED US WAS FOR THE LAND NEXT TO THE SCHOOL, RIGHT? YES, MA'AM.
WHAT ABOUT THE LAND ACROSS THE STREET THAT YOU OWNED? DID YOU HAVE PLANS FOR THAT AS WELL, OR? YEAH, I DON'T HAVE ANY PLANS NOW.
I MEAN, ACTUALLY IF, IF PHASE ONE GOES WELL, I'D LIKE TO COME BACK AND PROBABLY DO ANOTHER PHASE, BUT THEN I'M GONNA HAVE SOME VA I'M NOT GONNA FAIL THAT 23 ACRES OUT THERE.
IF I DO 120 HERE, I MAY COME BACK ANOTHER 120 AND THAT WOULD, THAT'D PROBABLY BE THE END OF THE GAME FOR ME.
AND I'D, YOU KNOW, HAVE THE OTHER LAND AVAILABLE.
I DO, I LIKE THE PROJECT A LOT.
UM, ESPECIALLY, UM, THE SENIOR LIVING CONCEPT.
WE HAD PREVIOUSLY APPROVED SOMETHING SIMILAR NOT LONG AGO, BUT THE, IN THE SAME VICINITY, BUT THE PROJECT FELL THROUGH.
SO I'M GLAD TO SEE THIS KIND OF FILLING THAT, THAT GAP THAT THE OTHER ONE, UM, MISSED OUT ON.
UM, I DO HAVE A REALLY ACTIVE, UM, NEIGHBORHOOD IN THAT AREA, SO THEY'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, WANNA KNOW ALL ABOUT THIS.
AND SO I HOPE IF THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR ANY CONCERNS THAT YOU WOULD BE OPEN TO MAYBE SOME KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ZOOM OR JUST INTERACTIONS.
BUT I, I, I LIKE IT A LOT AND I THINK YOU'RE REALLY FILLING, UM, A GAP WITH LUXURY SENIOR LIVING THAT WE HAVE HERE.
AND, UH, THE CONCEPTS ARE GOOD AND, UM, I LIKE THAT IT'S IN DISTRICT FOUR.
UH, YEAH, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE LAST TIME AS IF YOU WERE HERE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS, THERE WAS QUITE A BIT OF OPPOSITION TO IT.
AND IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT.
I THINK THIS IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CONCEPT.
IN FACT, I WOULD, I WOULD HESITATE TO CALL THIS MULTIFAMILY, EVEN THOUGH IT IS, I MEAN, IT'S A FOUR AND A SIX PLEX, BASICALLY WITH AN AMENITY SINGLE LEVEL.
WHEN YOU DRIVE BY, YOU'RE GONNA THINK IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT, BASICALLY.
I, I WOULD SAY, AND THAT'S, IT'S A VERY TRUE STATEMENT 'CAUSE SOME OF OUR SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT, 'CAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE BASICALLY PROPOSING A 10 TO ONE TYPE SITUATION IN A SENSE.
AND SO IT'S NOT THAT FAR FROM SOME, SOME OF THE SINGLE FAMILY THAT WE KIND OF NORMALLY SEE.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST HAVING AN, AN OPPORTUNITY KIND OF THAT GAP FOR SOME OF OUR RETIREES THAT HAVE, UH, I'LL USE MY NEIGHBORHOOD AS AN EXAMPLE.
MOST OF THE, MOST OF THE LOT SIZES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD ARE ABOUT HALF ACRE.
AND SO ONCE YOU RETIRE, YOU DON'T WANT TO CONTINUE MOWING GRASS AND OTHER STUFF.
AND SO, UM, THIS IS A REALLY GOOD, UM, AMENITY AND A CHOICE FOR, FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO CONTINUE TO RETIRE HERE IN BAYTOWN.
SO WITH THAT, UH, COUNCILWOMAN RERO, UM, JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
AND SO, UM, I THINK IT'S GREAT.
ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE BOTH ATTACHED AND DETACHED, UM, UNITS AVAILABLE? 'CAUSE I DID SEE SOME THAT LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE DETACHED OR, OR SINGLE UNITS.
WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR MIX GOING TO BE OFF? NO, THE MIX WOULD BE A FOURPLEX OR A SIXPLEX, I GUESS, IF WE COULD CALL IT THAT.
ONE BUILDING WAS SIX UNITS, OR MAYBE ONE, THE ONES IN, EXCUSE ME, IN MONT BELLEVUE.
WE HAVE FOUR UNITS THAT YOU SAW AND THE, UH, THE PHOTOGRAPH.
THAT'S A, THAT'S A FOUR A FOURPLEX YOU CAN SEE.
BUT THE GARAGES ARE IN THE FRONT AND, AND MM-HMM
THESE, BELIEVE ME, I'VE, I'VE GOT 16 OF THESE OUT OF 120 UNITS.
AND WE OPENED LAST, WELL, NOT LAST MONTH, WELL LAST MONTH, FIRST WEEK IN JANUARY MM-HMM
AND OUT OF THE FIRST 20 LEASES, EIGHT OF THESE COTTAGES ARE GONE.
AND THAT'S KINDA WHY I SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT? THERE'S PROBABLY SOMETHING HERE
[00:15:01]
I NEED TO BE WORKING ON A LITTLE MORE.UH, SO THE COTTAGES HAVE LEASED UP.
THERE'S MORE DEMAND IN THAT AREA AS, AS I PERCEIVE IT.
SO THAT WAS MY SECOND QUESTION.
SO ARE THESE GONNA BE LEASED PROPERTIES AND, AND WHAT'S THE PRICE RANGE ON THESE? THEY WOULD BE PLUS OR MINUS $2,500 A MONTH.
UH, AND WHEN I SAY THAT, LIKE I, I'LL REFER THIS, THIS UNIT YOU'RE LOOKING AT HERE CURRENTLY LEASES FOR 24.5 AND IT HAS INCLUSIVE IN THERE ALL YOUR TV, CABLE, INTERNET.
IT'S GOT, UM, ALL OF YOUR UTILITIES EXCEPT ELECTRICITY ELECTRICITY'S.
THE ONLY OTHER CHECK THAT THEY WOULD WRITE ONCE THEY MOVE INTO THIS, INTO THIS PROPERTY, THEY WOULD HAVE AN ELECTRIC METER.
AND I'VE NEGOTIATED AN ELECTRIC CONTRACT FOR 4.20 CENTS A KILOWATT, WHICH IS GOOD, AS I'VE SEEN IN A LONG TIME.
SO, YOU KNOW US UP, WE CAN KEEP THAT DOWN EVEN FOR EM.
ANY, ANYONE ELSE? YES, I KNOW I, I KNOW YOU WANNA MOVE THERE, BUT YOU TRYING TO MOVE ME OUTTA MY DISTRICT ALREADY SERIOUS IN DISTRICT SIX WOULD BE GOOD FOR THIS.
NO, THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD IS ON THE SIXPLEX.
THE, THE CENTER UNITS WERE TWO BEDROOM.
AND MY QUESTION IS ON THE FOURPLEX OR THEY ALL ONE BEDROOM OR IS THERE A COMBINATION OF ONE OR TWO BEDROOM? NO, THESE ARE ALL TWO BEDROOM RIGHT HERE.
THE ONES YOU'RE LOOKING AT HERE, UH, COUNCILMAN, THAT'S, THOSE ARE ALL TWO BEDROOM UNITS.
'CAUSE I WAS, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE SIXPLEX YOUR FOUR PLAN.
THE TWO CENTER ONES ARE TWO BEDROOM, THE FOUR OUTSIDE ONES ARE ONE BEDROOM.
I THINK IT, I THINK IT MAY BE DIFFERENT.
I THINK THERE'S, I THINK IT'S THE CORNERS ARE ALL TWOS AND THE INTERIORS ARE ONES.
CAN YOU BRING UP THE, CAN YOU BRING UP THE FLOOR PLAN? HE'S PROBABLY REFERRING TO BECAUSE THERE, THERE WAS THREE ON THE END AND THEN TWO IN THE CENTER.
UM, WELL WHAT DID I, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY FLOOR? WE'LL GET THERE.
BECAUSE THE ONES IN THE CENTER OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T HAVE THE ATTACHED GARAGES THERE.
IT'S THERE, IT'S UM, THEY'RE ATTACHED.
THE A, THE A IS A ONE BEDROOM.
WE HAD ANOTHER PLAN WHERE THE TWO BEDROOMS. OH, I SEE.
SO WHAT WE'LL DO TO GET A UNIT MIX, WE'LL HAVE SOME OF THESE WITH THE TWOS INSIDE AND SOME OF THE ONES INSIDE, PROBABLY ON A UNIT MIX, WE'D HAVE 55% OF 'EM IS ONE BEDROOMS, 45% IS TWOS.
AND, AND MIX THAT FLOOR PLAN THOUGH.
AND, AND THAT WAS MY QUESTION ON THE SIXPLEX.
AND BUT ON A FOURPLEX, WOULD THERE BE A COMBINATION? SOME OF 'EM WOULD BE HAVE TWO BEDROOM VERSUS ALL OF 'EM ONE.
YEAH, I THINK YOU ANSWERED, THERE'D BE A MIX.
WE WOULD, WE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE WAITING TO THE ONE BEDROOM AND UH, AND THEN MIX THIS SIX PLEX TO WHERE WE WOULD HAVE THE CORNERS AS TWOS OR ONES DEPENDING UPON THE, THE AREA THAT WE'RE GOING IN.
THAT'S MY ONLY QUESTION, MA QUESTION, MAYOR.
SO IT'S MORE SO FOR THE PLANNING DIRECTOR.
SO WITH THE LOAD DENSITY, COULD WE GET BY WITH AN MF ONE ZONING OR WOULD WE BE REQUIRED TO DO AN MF TWO? YEAH, 10 TO ONE'S PRETTY, UM, PRETTY GOOD.
MY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR'S NODDING AT ME THAT YES.
AN MF ONE? UH, PROBABLY WOULD BE MF ONE.
I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD ANY, NOT VERY MANY, IF ANY.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE BAYTOWN AREA THAT HAS AN MF ONE? I DON'T THINK WE DO.
I MEAN THAT, AGAIN, MY BACKGROUND BEFORE, I DID A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT.
I'VE BEEN DOING APPRAISAL WORK AND MARKET STUDIES FOR MULTI-FAMILY AND REALLY ALL TYPES OF REAL ESTATE.
I, I, I END UP DOING A LOT OF LITIGATION WORK FOR HARRIS COUNTY TAX AUTHORITY.
DON'T, DON'T THROW STONES AT ME FOR THAT
BUT ANYWAY, UH, I, I DO END UP IN A LOT OF LITIGATION REPRESENTING HARRIS COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT IN THEIR LAW FIRM, OLSON AND OLSON, WHO ALSO DOES A LOT OF LEGAL WORK FOR CITIES.
NOW IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN GOOD, AND MAYBE I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT EITHER, KAREN, IS THAT RIGHT? I DUNNO.
BUT YES, WE'RE FROM WITH OLSON.
BUT, UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COUNSEL? I HAVE A FEW JUST AREAS THAT I WOULD, I WOULD SAY, BUT I THINK YOUR PRESENTATION WAS, WAS EXCELLENT.
I THINK IT, IT CERTAINLY SERVES A, A NEED A MARKET.
UM, THE DENSITY I THINK IS, IS, IS MORE THAN WHAT WE, OR THE, THE, I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY THE, THE 10 TO ONE RATIO IS SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T SEEN IN A SENSE BEFORE.
SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY GREAT.
I MEAN, YOU DID MENTION THE 50 FOOT, UH, BUFFER, UH, BAYTOWN.
WE DO NOT HAVE SOME, WE DON'T HAVE A TREE PRESERVATION TYPE, UM, ORDINANCE IN ANY WAY.
UM, BUT WE WOULD ALWAYS ASK ANY DEVELOPMENT IF THEY CAN TRY TO AT LEAST CONSIDER, UH, TO, TO, IF YOU CAN LEAVE SOME, UH, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S ANY ESTABLISHED OAKS THAT WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE CUT DOWN AS FAR AS YOUR DEVELOPMENT.
UM, I THINK THAT'S ALWAYS ADDS A GREAT AMENITY ON SITE.
[00:20:01]
IT, IT LOOKS A LITTLE BIT MORE ESTABLISHED AND THAN JUST NEW CONSTRUCTION.UM, BUT WE UNDERSTAND YOU, YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.
SO I WOULD CERTAINLY REQUEST IF YOU CAN PRESERVE ANY, ANY HARDY TYPE TREES OR OAKS THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE A REQUEST.
THAT IS, THAT'S AWFUL KIND OF VIEW.
I'M DOING 288 UNITS IN AUSTIN, TEXAS RIGHT NOW.
AND THAT'S NOT THEIR ATTITUDE, I TELL YOU.
UH, ACTUALLY, EVEN WHEN I DID STONEBROOK IN 2000, I, I LEFT A, A MEDIAN IN THERE OF SOME TREES AND TRIED TO SAVE SOME OTHERS AND ENDED UP COSTING ME 15,000 TO SAVE THEM AND I DIDN'T SAVE THEM, BUT I UNDERSTAND.
BUT ANYWAY, IF THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED, IF YOU TRY TO DO WHAT YOU CAN AND I I, I WOULD WE'LL PROBABLY GET A TREE SURVEY SURE.
BEFORE WE CLEAR AND SEE IF WE CAN'T, BEFORE WE DO THE SITE PLANT AND SEE IF WE CAN LEAVE, LIKE YOU SAID, IF YOU SEE THESE, YOU KNOW, AND PROBABLY IN YOUR COMMON AREAS, RIGHT.
IT JUST WOULD BE WELL ESTABLISHED.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU CAN DO THAT.
UM, SO I WOULD REQUEST THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, SAME THING WHEN IT COMES TO STONE REQUIREMENTS.
UM, IF, IF WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO GO THAT ROUTE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO, TO REQUIRE PERCENTAGE UNDER, I GUESS UNDER THIS TYPE OF, UM, MAKEUP, BUT YES, NO BID.
YOU, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MASONRY, I'M TALKING ABOUT MASONRY REQUIREMENTS.
WE WOULD NOT HAVE ANY ABILITY TO THAT.
SO I WOULD ASK THAT, THAT YOU WOULD CERTAINLY, UH, I MEAN THE MARKET, THE MARKET'S, THE MARKET.
BUT IF YOU CAN CERTAINLY, UH, WITHIN, WITHIN THE PRICE POINT, IF YOU COULD HAVE AS MUCH MASONRY THAT THAT'S AESTHETICALLY PLEASING FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT, UM, WE CERTAINLY WOULD ASK THAT.
I WOULD, I WOULD TELL YOU THAT WORKING WITH THE, THE CITY OF MONT BELLEVUE, I'M NOT, NOT COMPARING YOU, I'M JUST TELLING YOU THEIR, THEIR REGULATIONS WERE MORE LIKE 50% ALL AROUND.
AND, AND ON MY PROJECT THERE, I KIND OF NEGOTIATE A, I'D RATHER DO 60 OR 70 IN THE FRONT AND 10 IN THE BACK, YOU KNOW, UN UNDERSTAND.
AND THAT'S THE KIND OF NO, WE WILL, WE'LL HAVE PLUS OR MINUS 30 TO 50%, UH, MASONRY PRODUCT, WHETHER IT BE BRICK OR THAT AUSTIN STONE THAT, THAT WE HAVE, UH, IN IN BARBERS HILL.
SO AGAIN, YOU MAKE THE DECISION.
I'M SURE CALCULATIONS WILL, THE MATH WILL BE THE MATH, BUT THE MORE STONE, THE BETTER.
THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO, TRYING TO MOVE THE NEEDLE ON, UH, IN OUR, ANY OF, ANY OF OUR, UM, NEW RESIDENTIAL, OUR MULTIFAMILY, IF WE CAN, WE DON'T HAVE THAT ABILITY, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY ASK.
AND SO I MIGHT, I MIGHT ASK, WHY DON'T YOU
AND SO, UH, THE, UH, LEGISLATION, AS YOU SAY IN AUSTIN, THINGS ARE DONE.
AND SO SOMETIMES THINGS TAKE PLACE IN AUSTIN.
SO LEGISLATION DOES THAT TOOK THAT ABILITY FOR US TO REQUIRE, UH, MASONRY REQUIREMENTS.
HA YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN A, WE'RE IN A LEGISLATIVE YEAR AND SO THINGS HAPPEN, I'LL ASSURE YOU THAT I DIDN'T KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT BRICKS AND STONE WAS OFFENSIVE TO FOLKS, BUT APPARENTLY IT IS.
YEAH, NO, CERTAINLY, I, I'M, I'M IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU ON THE PRESERVATION OF TREES AS WELL AS THE MASONRY PRODUCT OF, YOU KNOW, 30 TO 50%.
ANYWAY, SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE.
WE APPRECI WE APPRECIATE THE, THE HIGH PERCENTAGE, THE BETTER.
THE, THE BIGGER THE SMILE HERE.
SO WITH THAT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE.
AND SO WE HOPE WE CERTAINLY, AS THE PROCESS MOVES FORWARD, WE HOPE THAT IT'S A SEAMLESS AND SMOOTH PROCESS WITH, UH, WITH OUR FOLKS IN PLANNING AND, AND OTHERS.
AND, AND JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME IDEA OF THAT, UH, MARK MU CASEY DOES A LOT OF, UH, T-D-H-C-A WORK TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF HOUSE COMMUNITY AFFAIRS, WHICH IS A, AND, AND WE DO APPRAISAL WORK IN THAT SPACE TOO.
THEY HAVE DEADLINES OF MARCH THE FIRST, AND HE'S JUST BEEN BOOKED UP, OR I WOULD'VE TRIED TO BRING A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN, BUT HE SAID, I, I CAN'T EVEN TALK TO YOU TILL MARCH THE FIRST.
SO PROBABLY WHERE MARCH THE FIRST, AND THEN YOU GO THROUGH THE HUD PROCESS, YOU GO THROUGH WHAT'S CALLED A CONCEPT MEETING.
AND TALKING TO MY LENDER THE OTHER DAY, HUD SO BACKED UP WITH REFINANCE STUFF BECAUSE THE INTEREST RATES ARE DOWN IN THE TWOS.
AND SO EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO REFINANCE.
AND, UH, THAT'S TAKEN TWO MONTHS TO DO THAT.
SO WHERE I AM IS IF I COULD GET STARTED CONSTRUCTION A YEAR FROM TODAY, I'D BE A HAPPY CAMPER, YOU KNOW.
THEY'LL BE, WE'LL HAVE TWO, WE'LL HAVE COUNCILMAN JOHNSON AND, AND THIS GENTLEMAN HERE.
THANK YOU, SIR FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.
THANK YOU LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
[b. Discuss duplex housing regulations.]
MOVE ON TO ITEM ONE B.DISCUSSED DUPLEX HOUSING REGULATIONS.
SO I HAVE TO ASK, IS THIS RELATED TO THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT OR IS IT JUST SOMETHING IT'S NOT, NOT SPECIFICALLY, NO.
UH, BUT IS IT IS A LONG TIME DISCUSSION WE'VE BEEN WANTING TO HAVE.
THESE ARE DUPLEXES, NO, DUPLEXES TO UNITS.
BUT IT COULD BE, I MEAN, I THINK IT SHOULD INCLUDE FOUR OR FIVE.
I MEAN, YOU GET INTO STUFF WHEN DOES IT BECOME MULTIFAMILY? BUT, BUT YES, DUPLEX WOULD BE TWO SHARED WALL.
SO, UM, YOU, YOU MAY REMEMBER, UH, SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT, UM, THE, YEAH, THIS IS NOT A NEW, UH, TOPIC.
THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE, UH, IN PAST YEARS.
AND BASICALLY, UM, RECENTLY WE'VE JUST HAD AN INCREASE IN
[00:25:01]
INTEREST IN BUILDING DUPLEXES IN BAYTOWN, UM, OR EVEN CONVERTING SINGLE FAMILY HOMES INTO DUPLEXES.AND THE CURRENT ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW, THE LANGUAGE IS KIND OF UNCLEAR ON A FEW ISSUES, AND IT REALLY LEAVES STAFF TO INTERPRET THE REGULATIONS AND, AND SOME OF THAT IT CAN GET TRICKY AT TIMES.
UH, SO FOR NOW STAFF INTERPRETATION, WE'RE LEANING TOWARDS THE STRICT, UH, THE STRICTER INTERPRETATION OF CODE.
UH, BUT WE'RE NOT SURE REALLY THAT LONG TERM THAT MATCHES UP WITH THE OVERALL GOALS OF THE CITY.
SO, UM, WHAT WE'D LIKE IS TO MAKE SOME AMENDMENTS TO HELP CLARIFY THE CODE A LITTLE BIT, JUST TO HELP WITH CONSISTENCY, LEAVE LESS OPPORTUNITY, UH, FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING IN TO GET MULTIPLE ANSWERS FROM DIFFERENT STAFF MEMBERS OVER TIME.
SO REALLY TONIGHT, UM, WE'D LIKE TO GET A LITTLE BIT OF DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL AND, UM, SO WE CAN THEN STAFF CAN TAKE IT BACK, MAKE THE CHANGES, AND THEN BRING IT BACK IN FOR, FOR AMENDMENTS AT A LATER DATE.
UM, AND, AND WE PROBABLY MOVE FAIRLY QUICKLY BECAUSE AGAIN, WE HAVE HAD SOME RECENT INTEREST IN, UH, IN THIS TYPE OF, OF THING.
SO REALLY SPECIFICALLY, THERE ARE THREE AREAS WHERE WE, WE NEED, UH, TO CLARIFY THE CODE A LITTLE BIT.
UM, THE FIRST ONE IS KIND OF A COMBINATION OF DENSITY AND MINIMUM LOT SIZE.
RIGHT NOW, THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE IN RESIDENTIAL ZONES, SOME OF THE RESIDENTIAL ZONES IS REGULATED BY THE DENSITY ITSELF.
SO THERE IS NO, THERE'S NOTHING LISTED IN THE CODE AS THIS IS MINIMUM LOT SIZE, BUT WE KNOW THAT IF IT'S SIX PER ACRE, THEN OUR MINIMUM LOT SIZE IS, UH, WHAT DOES THAT END UP BEING? 80, 8400 SQUARE FEET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO, UM, UH, SO, SO FOR EXAMPLE, SF TWO, UH, DOES, WHICH WE HAVE A LOT OF, AND DUPLEXES ARE ALLOWED IN SF TWO, UH, DOES ALLOW MINIMUM DENSITY OF SIX DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE AND A MAXIMUM OF NINE PER ACRE.
UM, THE LANGUAGE HERE IS JUST A LITTLE BIT FUZZY BECAUSE CODE DOESN'T REALLY SPECIFY WHETHER DUPLEXES ARE TREATED THE SAME AS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
UM, OR SHOULD WE DOUBLE THAT MINIMUM SIZE BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'VE GOT TWO UNITS, UM, AGAIN, THE CODE IS SILENT ON THIS, SO WE'RE JUST KIND OF TAKING OUR, OUR BEST, UH, INTERPRETATION OF IT.
UM, THE DIFFERENCE THERE IS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY BETWEEN 5,000 SQUARE FEET AND 10,000 SQUARE FEET IS KIND OF A BIG DEAL, ESPECIALLY IN THE OLDER PARTS OF TOWN WHERE THERE'S MAINLY SMALL LOTS.
SO AGAIN, WE ARE LOOKING FOR SOME CLARIFICATION ON THAT ONE.
THE SECOND AREA WAS SINGLE BUILDING VERSUS CLUSTERS.
UM, SO IT'S KIND OF RELATED TO THE DENSITY STANDARD, BUT IT'S REALLY ABOUT THE INTENT SPECIFIC DUPLEXES.
SO WHEN WE SAY SIX PER ACRE, UH, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE CITY ONLY ALLOWS THEM IN GROUPS OF CLUSTERS O OF, YOU KNOW, THREE DUPLEXES, WHICH WOULD FIX DWELLING UNITS, UH, TOGETHER? OR DO WE WANNA ALLOW THEM AS A SINGLE BUILDING WHEREVER THEY MIGHT BE ALLOWED, UH, IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY? AS I SAID, WE'VE HAD SOME REQUESTS TO CONVERT SOME SINGLE FAMILY HOMES TO DUPLEXES LATELY.
UM, AND, UM, DEPENDING ON THE LOT SIZE, WHETHER WE TELL THEM YES OR NO ON THAT, UM, SO, BUT IN OLDER PARTS OF THE CITY THAT MAY MAKE SENSE, MAYBE CONVERTING SOMETHING.
UM, AND THEN IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY MAY BE NEWER SUBDIVISIONS WHERE IT CAN BE PLANNED FOR.
UH, IT, IT MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE TO PLAN FOR THESE CLUSTERS OF, OF DUPLEXES.
AND THEN THE THIRD ITEM IS REALLY THE LOCATIONS WHERE WE MIGHT ALLOW, UH, DUPLEXES.
AND SO, LIKE I SAID, CERTAIN AREAS OF TOWN, A SINGLE DUPLEX MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE IN OTHER PARTS OF TOWN.
IT MIGHT BE MORE APPROPRIATE TO, UH, TO DO A CLUSTER OF DUPLEXES.
UM, AND MAYBE THERE ARE PARTS OF THE CITY WHERE WE DON'T WANT THEM AT ALL.
SO OBVIOUSLY WE WOULD DO THAT BY ZONING DISTRICTS.
UM, RIGHT NOW DUPLEXES ARE ALLOWED IN SF TWO MULTI-FAMILY, ONE AND TWO URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD AND IN THE ACE DISTRICT.
UM, REALLY ALL WE'RE LOOKING FOR HERE IS KIND OF GENERAL DIRECTION ON, ON, YOU KNOW, YOUR YOUR THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS ON, ON THIS ISSUE.
AND THEN STAFF WILL KIND OF WORK OUT THE DETAILS AND WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE BASED ON THE CONVERSATION WE HAVE TONIGHT.
UM, AND THAT REALLY SUMS UP MOST OF THE ISSUES WE'RE RUNNING INTO.
UM, WE APPRECIATE THE DIRECTION, UH, AND REALLY TONIGHT WE'RE, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GET INTO TOO MUCH SUPER DETAIL, UH, JUST ENOUGH SO THAT STAFF CAN GO BACK AND, AND KIND OF, UM, WORK OUT THE, THE, THE DETAILED PARTS AND, AND BRING THOSE BACK TO YOU.
SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
SO WHAT AREAS WOULD WE NOT ALLOW THEM IN MM-HMM
UH, IN TERMS OF WHAT PARTS OF TOWN? YES.
SO I THINK, UM, THE, THE MAIN, UM, CONCERN THAT I'VE HEARD FROM, FROM PEOPLE WAS THAT WE DON'T WANT TO, WE WANT TO END UP, EXCUSE ME, WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT THEY DON'T END UP IN, UM, SAY IN AN ESTABLISHED SUBDIVISION THAT MIGHT HAVE A COUPLE OF LOTS THAT ARE OPEN, THAT IS ALL SINGLE FAMILY, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'VE GOT THIS KIND OF OUT OF PLACE DUPLEX NEXT TO
[00:30:01]
SINGLE FAMILY.UM, SO AGAIN, THIS IS A ZONING ISSUE.
SO IF WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN SAY THESE ARE ALLOWED IN, IN SF TWO, BUT ONLY UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, THAT SORT OF THING, UM, AGAIN, THE, THE CODE DOESN'T REALLY SPECIFY LIKE THAT.
THAT, THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE.
WELL, I WAS JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE I KNOW SOMETIMES, UM, YOU KNOW, I HAD A CONVERSATION ONE TIME WITH SOMEONE ABOUT THE HOMELESS SHELTER AND, UM, SOME OF THE MEMBERS THERE SAID, WELL, WE CAN'T MOVE ANY ANYWHERE ELSE BECAUSE NO OTHER PART OF THE CITY WANTS US.
AND SO I'M NOT SAYING DUPLEXES ARE, ARE BAD OR NOT.
I MEAN, THAT'S A TYPE OF HOUSING THAT THAT'S AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE, BUT I DON'T WANT US TO GET INTO THIS SITUATION WHERE WE CAN'T, WE DON'T WANT IT IN ONE SIDE OF TOWN VERSUS ANOTHER ONE.
SO THAT'S WHAT I WANNA GET AWAY FROM.
AND SO I THINK I, I WANNA HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEARER PICTURE ON WHAT THAT RESTRICTED AREA WOULD BE.
AGAIN, IT WAS MORE OF, IT WAS, IT WAS LESS ABOUT WHICH PART OF TOWN AND MORE ABOUT, UM, KIND OF THE CONTEXT OF WHERE THE DUPLEXES END UP, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
I FEEL LIKE THE ZONING ALREADY KIND OF TAKES CARE OF THAT MM-HMM
BUT IF SOMEONE WAS WANTING TO TURN A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND COUNTRY CLUB OAKS INTO A DUPLEX, THEY WOULD HAVE TO APPLY FOR REZONING AND GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS WITH PNZ, AND THEN ALL THEIR NEIGHBORS WITHIN 300 FEET WOULD BE NOTIFIED.
AND SO I FEEL LIKE THAT PROCESS IS SUFFICIENT, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS CHANGING, YOU KNOW, AREAS THAT ARE TRADITIONALLY SINGLE FAMILY, BUT IF IT'S ALREADY ZONED CORRECTLY FOR DUPLEX WOULD BE AN ISSUE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
COUNTRY CLUB MO PRIMARILY IS PROBABLY SF TWO, I'M GUESSING.
SF TWO IS, YOU GO A VERY LARGE CHUNK AND THEY ARE ALLOWED IN SF TWO.
NOW, ADMITTEDLY IN, IN AN ESTABLISHED, UH, RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, A LOT OF TIMES YOUR HOA, UH, RULES ARE GONNA TAKE CARE OF THAT AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA ALLOW THAT SORT OF THING.
SO THAT, THAT IS GONNA TAKE CARE OF PART OF IT.
BUT WE, WE ARE HANDS OFF AS FAR AS THOSE REGULATIONS GO.
SO, YOU KNOW, JUST OVER TIME YOU'RE NOT REALLY SURE WHERE, WHERE THAT MIGHT END UP.
I GUESS MY POINT IS, I FEEL LIKE OUR ZONING PROCESS KIND OF MM-HMM
TAKES CARE OF WHAT COUNCILMAN ALVARADO'S CONCERN WAS.
'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT REALLY LOOKING FOR US TO SAY, DON'T PUT 'EM IN THIS PART OF TOWN, PUT 'EM IN THIS PART OF TOWN, RIGHT? CORRECT.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR THAT.
BUT AGAIN, IS IT, DOES IT MAKE SENSE THEN TO SAY, OKAY, THERE ARE CERTAIN CONTEXTS WHERE ONE DUPLEX MAKES SENSE.
SO MAYBE IN AN OLDER PART OF TOWN WHERE THERE'S RELATIVELY SMALL LOTS THAT WE SAY, OKAY, A DUPLEX HERE MAKES SENSE, ESPECIALLY IF WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF LOTS THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE USED TO BE STRUCTURES THERE THAT GOT TORN DOWN AND THIS WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO REDEVELOP THOSE LOTS OR THE ONE LOT MM-HMM
OR MAYBE TWO SMALLER LOTS SIDE BY SIDE.
UM, AND THEN, UM, OR, OR DOES IT MAKE MORE SENSE TO SAY, UM, IF, IF WE'VE GOT AN AREA WHERE SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO, SO I, I DID HAVE SOMEONE RECENTLY COME IN AND SAY THEY WANTED TO DO FOUR DUPLEXES, UM, BASICALLY ON ONE ON ONE LARGER LOT.
AND THE WAY WE WORKED OUT THE MATH, THE LOT WASN'T QUITE BIG ENOUGH FOR WHAT HE WANTED TO DO.
SO, SO HE WENT BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD ON THAT.
BUT ARE THERE SOME CONTEXTS WHERE THAT MAKES MORE SENSE TO SAY IN THIS PART OF TOWN? SO AGAIN, I'M NOT ASKING COUNSEL TO SAY, THESE ARE THE PLACES WHERE IT, WHERE THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE JUST TO SAY, IS THIS A CONCEPT THAT YOU'RE OPEN TO THAT WE CAN THEN WORK INTO THE CODE? IF NOT, THEN WE'LL, WE WILL JUST DISH THAT IDEA.
BUT, UM, WE FEEL LIKE, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S A CONTEXT THING.
IT DEPENDS ON WHAT ELSE IS IN THAT AREA AND WHAT WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE.
NOW, UM, I, I'M NOT TOO, TOO FAMILIAR WITH DUPLEXES OR HOW THEY'RE STRUCTURED, BUT, UM, I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN SOME UNITS THAT I'VE SEEN, UM, IN HOUSTON WHERE IT'S A FIRST STORY, SECOND STORY.
SO WOULD THAT BE ALLOWED WITHIN, UH, I GUESS PARTICULAR ZONED AREA, WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED A DUPLEX AND MM-HMM
IT WOULD, IF THEY COULDN'T SPREAD OUT, MAYBE THEY CAN GO UP.
SO, UH, SHORT ANSWER IS YES, THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED ANYWHERE ELSE A REGULAR DUPLEX WOULD BE ALLOWED.
BUT DOES THAT SO DO, SO AGAIN, THE THE CODE IS SILENT ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
DO WE THEN ALLOW THAT ON A SMALLER LOT THAN WE WOULD A SIDE BY SIDE? UM, COULD GO EITHER DIRECTION WITH THAT AND IT JUST, THE CODE IS, IS SILENT IN THE OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT I'VE WORKED THE DUPLEXES WERE JUST TREATED LIKE ANY OTHER SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
UM, BUT I FEEL LIKE THERE HAS BEEN ATTENTION TO DUPLEXES IN OUR CODE IN THE PAST THAT MAYBE WE NEED TO GIVE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN, THAN WHAT I'VE SEEN IN OTHER COMMUNITIES.
SO, JUST THINKING OF, IN MY DISTRICT ALONE, WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD A COUPLE OF NEW DUPLEXES BUILT IN THE LAST COUPLE
[00:35:01]
OF YEARS.AND GENERALLY SPEAKING FOR MY DISTRICT, THEY'VE BEEN A GOOD THING.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE NEW CONSTRUCTION AND NEW DUPLEXES ANYWHERE THEY'RE ALLOWED, PARTICULARLY IN MY DISTRICT.
WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD SOME, SOME OVER AND UNDER DUPLEXES BUILT.
AND IT'S, IT'S A GREAT PRODUCT AND UH, WHAT IT DOES IS SOME OF THE VACANT LOTS IN THE OLDER PART OF TOWN, ACTUALLY, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE PURCHASED AND DEVELOPED MM-HMM
IF SOMEONE CAN BUILD A DUPLEX ON IT, IT HELPS GENERATE A LITTLE CASH FLOW AS OPPOSED TO HOPING SOMEONE WANTS TO BUILD A SINGLE FAMILY HOME THERE.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, SO I, I LIKE 'EM IN THAT, IN THAT REGARD.
BUT MY CONCERN IS FOR MY DISTRICT AND, AND YOU KNOW, I, I JUST SEE A BIT OF A DIFFERENTIATION HERE.
I MEAN, WHAT I WOULD WANT TO HAPPEN IS SOMEONE SPLIT UP A TWO BEDROOM, ONE BATH HOME WITH A SINGLE DRIVEWAY INTO A DUPLEX IN AN EXISTING SUBDIVISION, YOU CAN'T MAKE A DUPLEX OUT OF SOMETHING.
SO I HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.
AND THAT HAPPENS CURRENTLY
SO I, I HAVE SOME CONCERNS IN THAT REGARD, BUT, BUT AS FAR AS NEW CONSTRUCTION GOES, I'M A, I'M A, I'M A BIG FAN, SO I I, I JUST LOOK AT IT UNDER TWO DIFFERENT LENSES IN THAT REGARD.
AND TO BE FAIR, A LOT OF THOSE CONVERSIONS THAT HAPPEN, THEY DON'T COME ASKING OUR PERMISSION.
WE KNOW ABOUT 'EM AFTER THE FACT AND THEY DON'T MEET CODE.
THERE'S OVERCROWDING, THERE'S NOT ADEQUATE PARKING, IT'S JUST THEY CAN, THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS CAN BE JUST THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT I JUST TALKED ABOUT AS FAR AS NEW CONSTRUCTION GOES.
AND THAT SAID, IN THE LAST WEEK AND A HALF, I'VE HAD TWO REQUESTS TO DO JUST THAT, TO WOW.
TO, UH, CONVERT A SINGLE FAMILY INTO A DUPLEX.
UM, BUT AGAIN, IF THEY MEET THE MINIMUM ACREAGE REQUIREMENT, YEAH.
WELL, I MEAN, IF, IF THEY'RE COMING IN TO INQUIRE ABOUT A PERMIT AND THEY'RE GONNA MEET ALL THE CODES AND THEY HAVE THE, THE ACREAGE, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE.
I, I JUST, I WOULDN'T WANT US TO LOOSEN UP ANY REGULATIONS THAT'S ON, THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS CURRENTLY TO, TO MAKE THE EXISTING DUPLEXES MORE WORKABLE.
LET, LET ME ASK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
UM, AND MAYBE I MISSED IT, BUT SO YEARS AGO WE, WE ADDED ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS TO MULTIFAMILY, RIGHT? THERE WAS STUFF, THERE WAS AN ARRAY, THERE WAS, UH, WE'LL SAY QUAD QUADPLEXES OR WHATEVER THEY'RE CONSIDERED, UH, YOU KNOW, WHERE SMOKING ALARMS, OPERATIONAL, I MEAN, ALL KINDS OF STUFF.
UM, IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T JUST THE 350 PLUS TYPE, UH, COMPLEXES THAT WE WERE, THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN, IN ONE OF OUR PREVIOUS MEETINGS FOR AT LEAST DISTRICT ONE AND TWO, I THINK THEY MADE A VERY GOOD POINT.
AND I, I COULD TELL YOU, UM, THAT I, THAT I KNOW GREEN SPACE IS NOT READILY AVAILABLE IN DISTRICTS ONE AND TWO.
SO IT, IT GOES INTO REDEVELOPMENT AND, AND STUFF.
UH, TRAVELING JUST YESTERDAY ACROSS THE CITY, WE'VE SEEN SOME THINGS THAT, UM, I HOPE WE CAN MAYBE ADDRESS SEPARATELY FROM THIS ITEM.
BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, I'LL SAY THERE'S, THERE'S MOBILE HOMES, MANUFACTURED HOMES THAT ARE, THAT ARE ON THESE LOTS AND HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE GO THROUGH AN EVOLUTION MM-HMM
AND SOME OF 'EM WERE CLUSTERED, UM, MAINLY ALONG WEST MAINE WHEN WE, WHEN WE WERE DRIVING BACK.
AND SO I JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, TO ME THIS IS, THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.
THERE'S A LIFESPAN TO THESE STRUCTURES.
AND I THINK SOME OF 'EM REACHED IT FROM THE ONES WE SAW YESTERDAY, BUT YOU, YOU PUT HARDY PLANK ON IT AND IT'S GOOD FOR 50 MORE YEARS.
AND SO I JUST THINK THAT WE HAVE TO KIND OF DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND OF KIND OF SAYING, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN IS THIS ENOUGH? BUT, BUT WITH THE IDEA THAT DUPLEXES AND OTHER TYPE OF, UM, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, IF YOU WANT TO CONSIDER THAT INTO DUPLEXES OR WHATEVER, COULD, COULD BE ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE IT'S A, IT'S A HARDENED STRUCTURE COMPARED TO WHAT WE, AT LEAST WHAT I SAW YESTERDAY.
SO I THINK DISTRICT ONE AND TWO, SINCE, UM, NEW DEVELOPMENT WILL NOT TAKE PLACE UNLESS YOU ARE KNOCKING DOWN SOMETHING, EITHER ITS SUBSTANDARD OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
AND, AND THAT'S GONNA BE MY POLICY AND ENFORCEMENT BIAS.
AND SO THAT, THAT'S AN EVOLUTION THAT WILL TAKE YEARS TO GET TO THAT POINT.
BUT YOU, YOU DO HAVE TO BEGIN THAT PROCESS.
SO ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST MY POINT ON THAT.
AND I THINK THEIR POINTS WERE WELL TAKEN AS FAR AS DISTRICT ONE AND TWO AND, UH, AND MOVING FORWARD WITH SOMETHING WITH, WITH GOING AND HAVING NEW, NEW STRUCTURES AND NEW FAMILY, NEW CONSTRUCTION.
AND I AGREE, MAYOR, I THINK IT, IN THE NEAR FUTURE, WE, WE SHOULD HAVE ANOTHER DISCUSSION.
WE HAVEN'T HAD ONE, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED MOBILE, HOMELESS MANUFACTURED HOUSING.
ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YES, SIR.
AND A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR CLARIFICATION.
YOU KIND OF MENTIONED UP FRONT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVE THE STANDARD OF SIX UNITS PER ACRE, BUT THERE'S REALLY NOT A SQUARE FOOTAGE PER UNIT.
SO I COULD HAVE AN ACRE AND PUT FIVE OF THEM ON THIS BIG OF A SPOT AND HAVE ONE ON THIS BIG OF A SPOT.
UH, NO, WE, AS LONG AS I HAD SIX PER ACRE, UH, NO, WE WOULD AVERAGE IT OUT.
[00:40:01]
IF YOU HAD, SO IT'S BUILT INTO THE CODE THAT IT HAS TO BE AN AVERAGE MM-HMMBASICALLY IT'S A, IT IS A NET DENSITY.
SO, UM, IF YOU'VE ONLY GOT AN ACRE, I'M, AND IT'S SIX PER ACRE, THEN I COULD ALLOW YOU TO HAVE SIX UNITS ON THAT ACRE.
IF YOU ONLY HAD A HALF AN ACRE.
NO, I'VE GOT, MY QUESTION IS, I'VE GOT MY ACRE, I'M GONNA PUT FIVE OF THEM ON HALF AN ACRE AND ONE OF THEM ON A HALF ACRE.
WOULD THERE BE ANYTHING TO PRECLUDE THAT? WE DON'T HAVE THAT.
IT'S 'CAUSE THE ISSUE OF DENSITY IS TO HAVE ENOUGH SPACE FOR EACH UNIT.
SO I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT.
THE OTHER ONE YOU CAME OUT, YOU ASKED ABOUT, DO WE CALL A DUPLEX A SINGLE, UH, ONE UNIT OR TWO UNITS? SO IF I HAVE A DUPLEX AND IT'S CONSIDERED ONE, AND I'VE GOT SIX DUPLEXES ON AN ACRE, NOW I'VE ACTUALLY GOT 12.
SO NO, SO NO, IT ACTUALLY SAYS DWELLING UNITS.
SO A DUPLEX IS DEFINED AS TWO DWELLING UNITS, D TWO DWELLING UNITS.
SO THAT CLARIFIES THAT FOR ME.
WHAT I WAS GETTING AT WAS THAT IF I, IF I AM REQUIRING 5,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM FOR, FOR A ONE UNIT MM-HMM
THEN SHOULD I BE REQUIRING 10,000 SQUARE FEET FOR A DUPLEX? WELL, YOU JUST TOLD ME IT'S CONSIDERED TWO UNITS, SO THAT'S NOT A QUESTION.
THE, THE CODE DOESN'T, THE CODE IS NOT THAT SPECIFIC.
YOU'RE SAYING IT'S SILENT ON STUFF.
SO YOU EITHER NEED EITHER MORE DETAIL OR MM-HMM
SO IT CAN, NOW WE GO BACK TO, IT'S CONSIDERED TWO UNITS.
IT, THAT'S 10,000 ACRES FOR THAT 10,000 ACRES.
IT'S 10,000 SQUARE FEET FOR THAT, THAT UNIT.
SO IT, UM, I'M TRYING, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO, HOW TO EXPLAIN OR A DUPLEX.
SO I, I WILL SAY THAT PART OF THE, PART OF THE ISSUE IS THAT, UM, PAST DIRECTOR AND MYSELF HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON HOW TO INTERPRET IT.
AND I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE CONSISTENT, WHATEVER THE ANSWER IS, I JUST WANT TO TELL EVERYBODY THE SAME THING.
AND RIGHT NOW, THE CODE LEAVES IT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION AND, AND I NOT WANNA NECESSARILY SPEAK FOR THE REST OF COUNCIL BEING NEW ON COUNCIL, BUT I CAN PRETTY SURE THAT THIS COUNCIL WANTS IT TO BE VERY CLEAR AS WELL.
SO, SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT WHAT I'M ASKING TONIGHT IS HOWEVER IT'S WRITTEN NOW IS HOWEVER IT'S WRITTEN, BUT IF WE CAN WRITE IT TO BE MORE CLEAR TO SAY, IF YOU HAVE A DUPLEX, YOU'VE GOTTA DOUBLE THAT, THEN WE WILL WRITE IT IN THAT WAY.
IF, IF THIS COUNCIL IS OKAY WITH SAYING, OKAY, MAYBE YOU DON'T HAVE TO DOUBLE IT, MAYBE YOU KEEP THE SAME OR MAYBE YOU GO HALF AGAIN OR WHAT, WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS.
I, I, I, THAT'S NOT MY CALL, BUT WHATEVER IT IS, I, I WOULD LIKE IT TO BE WRITTEN INTO THE CODE IN SUCH A FASHION THAT WE, THAT WE DON'T HAVE DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS.
THAT'S REALLY ALL WE'RE GOING FOR TONIGHT.
ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM? ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU SIR.
[c. Discuss any or all of the agenda items on the City Council Regular Meeting Agenda for February 11, 2021, which is attached below.]
WE'LL MOVE ON TO, I GUESS ANY ITEM THAT, THAT COUNSEL WI WISHES TO DISCUSS THAT'S POSTED FOR OUR REGULAR AGENDA, UH, LATER THIS EVENING.ANY, ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING? THERE'S NOT MUCH, BUT NO.
WITH THAT THEN BEING THAT WE'VE ADDRESSED ALL POSTAGE ITEMS FOR THIS WORK SESSION, UH, THIS MEETING IS NOW ADJOURNED.