* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:17] MONTHLY, AND I'LL CALL THIS APPEAL HEARING FOR THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF, FIRE LIEUTENANT AND FIRE EQUIPMENT OPERATOR PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATIONS, WHICH WERE ADMINISTERED ON DECEMBER 3RD AND FOURTH OF 2020 RESPECTIVELY. WE'LL NOW PROCEED TO OUR FIRST APPEAL HEARING. CAN WE DO THE, DO YOU WANNA DO THE MINUTES WITH ALL THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF APPEAL QUESTIONS AND THEN MOVE INTO THE FIRE LIEUTENANT APPEAL QUESTIONS, AND THEN THE EQUIPMENT OPERATOR APPEAL QUESTIONS. BUT, BUT BEFORE WE DO ANY OF THAT, WE'RE GOING TO STICK BY OUR AGENDA, WHICH CALLS FOR, WHICH CALLS FOR, UM, UM, UH, APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING. LEMME SEE. THE LAST MEETING WAS HELD. JANUARY COVID 29TH. 2020. JANUARY'S 29TH. UM, 2020. DO I HEAR A MOTION TO APPEAL THE MINUTES AS PRESENTED? SO MOVED. I SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED AS PRESENTED. OKAY. OKAY. SO NOW THE ORDER OF BUSINESS THAT I, THAT I, UM, EXPLAINED PREMATURELY, LEMME SEE. UH, WE'LL START WITH, UH, WITH THE FIRST ONE ON OUR LIST. WOULD LIKE TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING THIS MORNING AND, UH, SUPPORTING THIS MEETING. VERY IMPORTANT IN THE PROCESS OF HOW WE, HOW WE CONDUCT THE BUSINESS. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING. UM, OKAY, HERE WE GO. CONDUCT KAREN. SO THE FIRST ITEM IS, UH, YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN THE RULES FIRST. ITEM TWO A ON THE, ON THE LIST. DO WE NEED TO EXPLAIN THE RULES FIRST? YEAH, IF YOU'LL READ THIS, THIS. OKAY. OKAY. RIGHT HERE. OKAY. SO LET ME, UH, READ THIS. THE, UM, THE, THE RULES OF THE HEARING FOR EACH APPEALED QUESTION ON THE AGENDA TODAY, THE APPELLANT. HOW MANY APPELLANTS ARE HERE TODAY? WE GOT A FEW. OKAY. GOOD. GOOD. THE, THE APPELLANT WILL BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT REASONS FOR HIS OR HER APPROVAL APPEAL, RATHER HIS OR HER APPEAL. THE APPELLANT MAY DESIGNATE SOMEONE ELSE TO PRESENT COMMENTS PURSUANT TO THE CITY OF BAYTOWN CIVIL SERVICE RULES, EACH APPELLANT WILL BE AFFORDED FOUR MINUTES TO SPEAK ON HIS OR HER APPEAL QUESTION. WHO'S GONNA BE THE TIMEKEEPER? WE NEED A TIMEKEEPER. OKAY. IN THE CASE OF MULTIPLE APPELLANTS, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM GIVING REDUNDANT TESTIMONY AFTER THE APPELLANT HAS SPOKEN ON THE QUESTION, THE COMMISSION, WHICH IS JULIE AND I MAY ASK QUESTIONS OF THE APPELLANT, THE CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTOR, AND ANY OTHER NECESSARY PARTY, THEREFORE, OTHERS WILL BE AFFORDED THEREAFTER. OTHERS WILL BE AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THE QUESTION, OFFERING DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT OPINIONS IF THEY SO DESIRE. HOWEVER, THEY MUST HAVE SIGNED THE LIST BY THE DOOR, WHICH WILL PROVIDE THE SPEAK ORDER. EACH SPEAKER SHALL GIVE HIS OR HER NAME IN ORDER TO PROVIDE A PROPER RECORD OF THE HEARING SHALL BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES TO PRESENT INFORMATION. HOWEVER, I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO BE AS BRIEF AND TO THE POINT AS POSSIBLE. ANY QUESTIONS ON THE RULES? OKAY, SO THIS, THIS IS THE LIST AND WE'VE ALREADY BEEN CLOSED AND PULLED. UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW RIGID IF SOMEONE ELSE WALKS IN, I DUNNO IF THEY'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. LEAVE THAT UP TO Y'ALL. OKAY. SO GETTING DOWN TO THE, UH, TO THE MEAT OF THIS MEETING, THE FIRST ITEM TWO A, WHICH IS A QUESTION ON TO THE APPEAL ON, UM, QUESTION NUMBER SIX FOR THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF DIVISION. OKAY, I ALREADY DID THAT. OKAY, WELL, OKAY, WELL, LEMME JUST, UH, REMIND YOU GUYS THAT I'M CALLING THIS APPEAL. UH, AND I CALL TO ORDER THIS APPEAL HEARING OF ALL THE, UM, THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF, THE FIRE LIEUTENANT, AND THE FIRE EQUIPMENT OPERATOR PROMOTION, UH, PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATIONS. OKAY. OKAY. THAT'S THE FIRST THING THAT I READ. SO, GETTING BACK TO, UM, ITEM TWO A, THIS IS AN APPEAL BY, UM, MR. MILLER ON QUESTION NUMBER SIX. [00:05:03] QUESTION NUMBER SIX. UH, MR. MILLER, DO YOU, DO YOU STILL WANT TO APPEAL THIS, THIS QUESTION? IS HE HERE? OKAY. HE'S NOT HERE. OKAY. IS HE HE'S ON THE LIST TO SPEAK. YEAH. HE'S NOT HERE. OR DO WE? OKAY. UH, SO WE JUST DON'T NEED TO, OKAY. OKAY. SO ON THIS ONE HERE, UH, THE COMMISSION HAS DECIDED, DO YOU WANT ME TO READ THAT QUESTION OUT TO EVERYBODY? YOU WANT ME TO REDO SOME READING? OKAY, I'LL, I'LL READ THIS ONE. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO THE PALANT, JAMES MILLER, QUESTION NUMBER SIX. UM, I THINK THERE WAS A TYPO ON THIS FORM THEY SENT US THOUGH. 'CAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ANSWER C UM, THE QUESTION IS, A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN IS A SHORT TO LONG-TERM PLAN, USUALLY BLANK YEARS THAT IDENTIFIES CAPITAL PROJECTS AND EQUIPMENT PURCHASES, PROVIDES A PLANNING SCHEDULE AND IDENTIFIES OPTIONS FOR, UH, FINANCING THE PLAN. AND, UM, THE TEST MAKER SAYS THE ANSWER IS C FOUR TO 10 YEARS. UM, SO AT THIS TIME, DO YOU WANT ME TO MAKE A MOTION? UM, SURE. OKAY. SO, UM, I'M GONNA MOVE TO DENY THE APPEAL BECAUSE, UM, TEST MAKER ASKED FOR THE BEST ANSWER AND THE ANSWER DID COME VERBATIM FROM, UM, THE MATERIALS. SO, UM, I MOVE THAT WE DENY THE APPEAL FOR QUESTION NUMBER SIX. I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO THIS NUMBER TWO A, THE APPEAL IS DENIED. OKAY, THE NEXT ITEM, ITEM ITEM TWO B CONCERNING QUESTION NUMBER 67 AGAIN FOR MR. MILLER. AND NOBODY SIGNED UP FOR THAT ONE? NOPE. OKAY. YOU WANNA READ THE, SURE. OKAY. SO QUESTION NUMBER 67. ONCE THE OXYGEN LEVEL, UH, GETS BELOW BLANK, THE FIRE BEGINS TO ITS INITIAL DECAY STAGE. THE ANSWER IS B 16. UM, LET'S SEE. UM, THAT'S CORRECT. UH, THE, UM, TEST MAKER SA STATES THE QUESTION AND CORRECT ANSWER WERE TAKEN VERBATIM FROM PAGE SEVEN OF THE SOURCE. ON PAGE SIX, THE BOOK STATES THAT THE DECAY STAGE OCCURS WHEN THE OXYGEN OR FUEL STARTS TO DIMINISH. ON PAGE SEVEN, THE BOOK STATES THAT THIS REDUCTION IN AIR LIMITS THE ABILITY FOR FREE BURNING AND OXYGEN LEVEL IS REDUCED TO LESS THAN 21%. THEREFORE, THE FIRST ANSWER WHEN THE OXYGEN OXYGEN BEGINS TO DIMINISH IS 19%, WHICH IS ANSWER C. SO IT WAS RECOMMENDED, UM, THAT WE ACCEPT BOTH ANSWERS B AND C IS CORRECT. SO I MOVE THAT, UH, FOR QUESTION NUMBER 67, WE ACCEPT BOTH ANSWERS B AND C IS CORRECT. I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO FOR QUESTION ITEM NUMBER TWO B CONCERNING QUESTION 67, UM, THE APPEAL IS ACCEPTED. ACCEPT BOTH ANSWERS. YEAH. OKAY. NEXT ITEM, ITEM NUMBER TWO C ON THE AGENDA CONCERNS. QUESTION NUMBER SIX, UH, 75 RATHER. OKAY, NO ONE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THAT, UH, BUT MR. UH, NAR. OKAY, SO THIS IS QUESTION NUMBER 75. GEOGRAPHIC SECTORING ALLOWS THE IC TO TAKE AN INCIDENT SEEN, DIVIDED AND PLACE SOMEONE IN CHARGE OF EACH AREA. THOSE INDIVIDUALS WILL THEN BE ASSIGNED UNITS TO ACCOMPLISH THE TASKS. THEY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR REQUESTING ADDITIONAL RESOURCES FROM THE IC OR OPERATIONS AND FOR GIVING TIMELY PROGRESS REPORTS. THE MODEL ICS REFERS TO GEOGRAPHIC SECTORS AS BLANK. THE ANSWER IS D DIVISIONS. UM, COMMENTS FROM THE TEST MAKER IS THE QUESTION AND CORRECT ANSWER WERE TAKEN VERBATIM FROM, UM, FROM PAGE 66 OF THE SOURCE. THIS APPEARS TO BE ANOTHER CONTRADICTION OF MATERIAL IN THIS BOOK, ALTHOUGH A BRANCH IS COMMONLY USED IN THE ICS TO DIVIDE THE INCIDENT INTO GENERAL ORGANIZATIONAL PIECES THAT OVERSEE LARGE SWATHS OF THE INCIDENT SUCH AS FIRE BRANCH, MEDICAL BRANCH, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS BRANCH ON PAGE 64, IT DOES STATE THAT BRANCHES CAN BE UTILIZED AS FUNCTIONAL GEOGRAPHIC OR ORGANIZATIONAL LEVEL FOR MAJOR PARTS OF THE INCIDENT OPERATIONS. SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT THE APPEAL AND ACCEPT ANSWERS A AND D AS CORRECT. I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO [00:10:01] ITEM TWO C ON THE AGENDA CONCERNING QUESTION NUMBER 75, THE APPEAL IS ACCEPTED. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA. ITEM 2D CONCERNS QUESTION NUMBER 44. IT'S BEING APPEALED BY, UH, MR. CRANE AND MR. GRIFFITH. I NUMBER 44. OKAY. OKAY. I MEAN, DO WE HAVE SOMEONE THAT'S GONNA SPEAK? I'LL LEAVE FOR A SECOND. OKAY. ITEM 2D. WE DO HAVE TWO. ALL RIGHT, TWO PEOPLE SIGNED UP ON 2D UH, MR. I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ IT. YOU WORKED FOR MR. CRANE. OKAY, SO QUESTION, UH, 44, UH, BLANK R FIRE RESISTANT HALF WALLS THAT EXTEND FROM THE UNDERSIDE OF A ROOF TO LIMIT THE HORIZONTAL SPREAD OF HEAT AND SMOKE. THESE CONFINE THE HEAT AND SMOKE TO A RELATIVELY SMALL AREA DIRECTLY ABOVE THE FIRE. THEY ALSO CONCENTRATE HEAT AND SMOKE DIRECTLY UNDER AUTOMATIC ROOF FENCE TO ACCELERATE ACTIVATION OF THE VENTS. THESE MAY ALSO ACCELERATE THE ACTIVATION OF AUTOMATIC SPRINKLERS IN THE AREA. THE CORRECT ANSWER IS D UM, WHICH IS BOTH A AND B ARE CORRECT. THAT WOULD BE CURTAIN BOARDS AND DRAFT CURTAINS. UM, AND THIS QUESTIONS CAME FROM THE, UM, SOURCE MATERIAL, UH, FIRE AND EMERGENCY SERVICES COMPANY OFFICER SIXTH EDITION. SO, UM, I GUESS WHOEVER, YEAH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO, UM, SAY SOMETHING TO MR. HEBERT OR MR. CRANE? UM, BOTH OF THE APPELLANTS GET TO PRESENT FIRST, AND THEN AFTER THAT THE COMMISSION CAN ASK THEM QUESTIONS. AFTER THAT, THEN THOSE WHO SIGNED UP CAN ALSO SPEAK. SO BOTH THE APPELLANTS, JACOB GRIFFITH AND CHRIS CRANE NEED TO BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK FIRST TO THEIR APPEAL. OKAY. OKAY. GOT IT. IT'S ONLY FAIR. GO AHEAD. WHICH ONE ARE YOU? I'M CHRIS CRANE. OKAY. OKAY. ON THE QUESTION NUMBER 44, UM, I'D LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, STATE THAT IT IS, UH, DIFFERENT, I GUESS WHEN YOU'RE MAKING A TEST AND YOU GO IN AND GET INFORMATION AND YOU'RE STUDYING IT FOR A TEST, YOU HEAR SOMETHING LIKE, UH, CURTAIN BOARDS AND DRAFT CURTAINS SOUNDS QUITE A BIT SIMILAR. SO YOU LOOK FOR WHAT, HOW ARE THEY DIFFERENT? THE TEST MAKER IS SAYING THAT THEY ARE THE SAME THING, BUT IF YOU READ ON AND YOU ACTUALLY STUDY THE BOOK AND GO THROUGH IT, YOU'LL REALIZE THAT THEY'RE DIFFERENT THINGS. HERE IT SAYS, UH, I RECOMMEND THE CORRECT INTEREST SHOULD BE A, I FEEL THE CORRECT ANSWER IS A, WHICH IS CURTAIN BOARDS TAKING, UH, DIRECTLY OUT OF THE BOOK ON PAGE 2 95 WHERE THE TEST MAKER GOT HIS QUESTION FROM. IT'S, IT SPECIFIES THAT CURTAIN BOARDS ARE FIRST, UH, SPEC SPECIFIED FOR RELATIVELY SMALL AREAS IN THE QUESTION. THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE KEY TERM THERE. RELATIVELY SMALL AREAS. ON PAGE 3, 0, 1 OF THE SAME BOOK IT TALKS, IT'S THE DEFINITION OF A DRAFT CURTAIN, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT THING. AND IT SAYS, IS DEFINED AS, UH, FOR LARGE OPEN AREAS. SO WHEN STUDYING THESE TWO THINGS, AND YOU'RE GONNA TAKE A TEST OVER IT, WHEN YOU SEE RELATIVELY SMALL AREAS, YOU'RE GONNA CHOOSE CURTAIN BOARDS. WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT SAYS LARGE OPEN AREAS, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF, UH, DEAL, IT'S, UH, GONNA BE A DRAFT CURTAIN. UM, I I I, I SUGGEST THAT THE, THE CORRECT ANSWER SHOULD BE BECAUSE IT SPECIFIES IN THE QUESTION RELATIVELY SMALL AREAS. UH, SHOULD THE ANSWER SHOULD BE A, UH, CURTAIN BOARDS. THANK YOU, MR. CRANE. MR. HUBERT, I DIDN'T APPEAL THE QUE THE QUESTION, BUT I'M HERE BECAUSE ON THAT QUESTION, THE ONE THAT USES BOTH OF THE ANSWERS IS CORRECT BECAUSE SHORTLY AFTER THE CURTAIN BOARD, UH, DESCRIPTION, IT SAYS THAT THEY ARE SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS DRAFT CURTAINS, I BELIEVE, AND IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE SAME AREA. I DON'T REMEMBER. MM-HMM . THANK YOU. THANK YOU. IS JACOB HERE? NO, MA'AM. OKAY. IT'S HARD TO TELL WITH EVERYBODY'S MASK ON . OKAY. SO, UM, YEAH. OKAY. [00:15:01] UM, UM, I DON'T KNOW. I HAVE TO KIND OF AGREE WITH THE TEST MAKER HERE BECAUSE, UM, HE DOES MENTION THAT, UM, CURTAIN BAR BOARDS ARE ALSO KNOWN AS DRAFT CURTAINS, WHICH IS ON PAGE 2 95. UM, SAYS, ALTHOUGH IT MAY SPEAK OF CURTAIN BOARDS AND DRAFT CURTAINS SEPARATELY IN OTHER AREAS OF THE BOOK, IT'S UNDENIABLE THAT THE CURTAIN BOARDS ARE ALSO KNOWN AS DRAFT CURTAINS AND ONLY D SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS CORRECT. UM, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M READING HERE ON PAGE 2 95. UNDER CURTAIN BOARDS, CORRECT. FIRE RESISTANT HALF WALLS, ALSO KNOWN AS DRAFT CURTAINS. THEY PUT 'EM IN THE SAME CATEGORY BECAUSE THEY DO THE SAME THING. BUT THOSE, OH, SORRY. BUT THOSE TWO THINGS ARE, ARE DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE DIFFERENT SIZES. IF YOU NOTICE WHEN YOU'RE STUDYING FOR A TEST AND YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT, HEY, IF THEY PUT THIS, MAKE SURE IF IT'S FOR A SMALL AREA, IT'S THIS ONE, OR IF IT'S FOR A LARGE AREA, PICK THIS ONE. THAT QUESTION SAYS SMALL AREA. IF YOU LOOK ON PAGE 3 0 1, THE DEFINITION OF A DRAFT CURTAIN, IT'S A DIFFERENT THING. IT SAYS FOR LARGE OPEN AREAS. SO THEY ARE SIMILAR AS FAR AS IN THE SAME CATEGORY, THEY DO THE SAME FUNCTION, BUT THOSE TWO THINGS ARE DIFFERENT. ONE OF THEM IS LARGER AND ONE OF 'EM SMALLER. AND AS A TEST MAKER, YOU CAN JUST GRAB SOMETHING OUTTA THE BOOK AND IT, IT'S A FACT. BUT AS A, AS SOMEONE STUDYING FOR THE TEST, WHEN YOU SEE TWO THINGS SIMILAR, YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHICH QUESTION, WHICH ANSWER YOU CHOOSE. BECAUSE IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, ONE OR THE OTHER. AND ONE OF THEM IS FOR SMALL ONES FOR LARGE. THAT'S THE MAIN THING THERE. OKAY. AND WOULD YOU CONSIDER, UM, TWO ANSWERS BEING CORRECT? A AND D? UH, YEAH. YEP. WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT, WHAT D IS? WELL, IT'S, UH, D IS FOR BOTH A AND B. OKAY. YOU SAY EITHER OR? EITHER. OKAY. SO I'M GONNA, UM, MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT ANSWERS A OR D FOR QUESTION 44 AND NOT B. UM, NO, 'CAUSE A AND B IS, IS WHAT THE TEST MAKER SAYS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER, BUT MR. CRANE WAS SAYING THAT AS IN THIS, ON PAGE 2, 9 5, IT TALKS ABOUT THE, UM, RELATIVELY SMALL AREA. SO, UH, AND THAT'S WITH THE CURTAIN BOARD, SO THAT'S WHY I RECOMMEND WE GO WITH ANSWERS A, UH, OR D FOR QUESTION 44. MM-HMM . BUT I KNOW IT'S ALSO IN THOSE CURTAINS. OKAY. BUT HE ALSO MENTIONS THAT IT'S, UM, RELATIVELY SMALL AREA RIGHT THERE. YEAH. OKAY. SO IT BE MM-HMM . CURTAINS. LEMME SEE. LET'S LOOK AT THIS QUESTION AGAIN THOUGH. UM, WE'RE HAVE TO SAY RELATIVELY SMALL. WAIT, UM, 'CAUSE I'M LOOKING AT THE QUESTION TOO. AND THIS QUESTION, UM, IS VERY SIMILAR TO THIS PARAGRAPH, SO I DUNNO. SO YOU CAN BE THAT, THAT FURTHER OH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. UM, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING, NOTHING DO WITH, SO YOU WANNA MAKE THAT MOTION. SO, OKAY. WHAT, WHAT IS THE, UH, WHAT, WHAT IS HIS APPEAL SHOULD BE? I THINK WE SHOULD ALL, SO, UM, I'M GONNA MAKE, UH, A NEW MOTION FOR QUESTION 44 THAT WE ACCEPT ANSWERS A, B, OR DI SECOND THAT MOTION. IS THAT FAIR? OKAY. 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THE APPEALS, HMM, I DON'T [00:20:01] THINK THAT'S WHAT THE APPEAL IS ABOUT, BUT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE FEEL WE SHOULD ACCEPT. UM, A, B OR D CURTAIN BOARDS, DRAFT CURTAINS, OR, OR BOTH. AND I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO FOR QUESTION 44, WHICH IS ITEM 2D ON THE AGENDA, UM, THE, WELL, I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU RECALL THAT, CAROL. DID WE, DID WE, UH, DID WE, UH, DENY OR ACCEPT THE APPEAL? WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA ACCEPT. OKAY. BUT WE'RE GONNA ACCEPT WITH ON THOSE CONDITIONS. CONDITIONS, YES. GOT IT. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. KANE. MR. HERBERT. OKAY. NEXT ITEM, UH, ITEM TWO C ON THE AGENDA. CONCERNING QUESTION NUMBER 80, WE DO HAVE, UM, OUR, OUR POPULAR PELLET'S GONNA SPEAK AGAIN. , YOU WANT ME TO GO AHEAD AND READ IT FIRST? YEAH. FOR TWO, TWO E, YEAH, CORRECT. QUESTION NUMBER 80. OKAY. SO THE QUESTION IS, UM, A BLANK IS PLACED ALONG THE TOP OF A BRICK PARAPET, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, MA'AM. UH, WALL TO KEEP RAINWATER FROM SEEPING DOWN INTO THE PARAPET WALL, DEPENDING UPON ITS COMPOSITION, TERRACOTTA, CEMENT, OR SLATE, IT CAN WEIGH BETWEEN FIVE AND 50 POUNDS. WHEN A PARAPET WALL IS NOT PROPERLY MAINTAINED OVER THE YEARS MORTAR USED TO CEMENT, THE COPING STONE TO THE WALL CAN LOSE ADHESIVE QUALITIES. WHEN THIS HAPPENS, THE STONE WILL BE HELD IN PLACE BY GRAVITY ALONE AND WILL MERELY REST ON TOP OF THE WALL. DURING THE FIREFIGHTING OPERATIONS, THESE CAN EASILY BE KNOCKED LOOSE BY SWEEPING MASTER STREAMS OR RETRACTED AERIAL PLATFORMS, SNORKELS OR AERIAL LADDERS. FIREFIGHTERS HAVE BEEN KILLED OR SERIOUSLY INJURED AFTER BEING STRUCK BY THESE FALLING. SO THE, UM, ANSWER IS D CAPSTONE. UM, UM, HANG ON. DO WE NEED TO GET THEM TO COME UP AND SPEAK? YEAH, GO AHEAD. YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME UP. UH, MR. KA, I DO NOT WISH TO PROTEST IS QUESTION ANY LONGER? OKAY. REALLY? OKAY. WELL THEN IT'S, UH, WAS IT JUST A ONE? YEAH, SO LET SEE. THIS WAS, UH, YEAH, HE WAS THE ONLY ONE. OKAY. UM, WELL, SO, SO THEN, OKAY, SO THE, THE TEST MAKER DID, UM, RESPOND AND STATED THAT, UM, THE QUESTION AND CORRECT ANSWER WERE TAKEN VERBATIM FROM PAGE 69 OF THE SOURCE. BUT, UM, IT ALSO SAYS IN HIS DOCUMENTATION FOR APPEAL, THE APPELLANT ADMITS THAT IT STATES ON PAGE 20 THAT A COPING STONE IS SOMETIMES CALLED A CAPSTONE. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE QUESTION ASK, AND THEREFORE THE ONLY ANSWER THAT CAN BE, UM, ACCEPTED CORRECT IS ANSWER D. SO, WHICH IS, UH, WHICH IS NAMES, BOTH NAMES FOR THESE CAPS MM-HMM . B AND C CAP STONE, RIGHT? COPING STONE OR CAPSTONE. WHAT DO YOU THINK? SAFETY. WHAT DO WE DO WE NEED TO, DO WE NEED TO MOVE ON THIS. IF HE'S WITHDRAWING HIS APPEAL, THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO OKAY. BUT HE SHOULD PROBABLY STATE HIS NAME AND FORMALLY STATE THAT HE'S WITHDRAWING HIS APPEAL. OH, OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO IF I UNDERSTAND, UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY, UM, FIREFIGHTER KANE IS WITHDRAWING, HIS CRANE IS WITHDRAWING HIS APPEAL FOR QUESTION NUMBER 80. THAT'S CORRECT. I'M WITHDRAWING MY APPEAL. GREAT, THANK YOU. OKAY, NEXT ITEM ON AGENDA TWO F. CONCERNING QUESTION NUMBER 99, WE HAVE OUR, UM, SAME TWO SPEAKER SIGNED UP, NUMBER 99. UH, I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ THE QUESTION. UH, WHEN YOU'RE IN THE BOX, PEOPLE FOLLOW YOU IF AT ALL ONLY, UM, BLANK. AND, UM, IT'S EITHER FOR INCENTIVES THROUGH FORCE, THROUGH THREAT OF FORCE, OR PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW YOU ONLY BECAUSE OF A AND B FOR INCENTIVES OR THROUGH FORCE. THE CORRECT ANSWER, UH, IS D, ACCORDING TO TEST MAKER, UM, PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW YOU ONLY BECAUSE OF BOTH A AND B. SO WHO WANTS TO, OKAY. OKAY. THE, UH, THE QUESTION'S INCORRECT BECAUSE IT SHOULD BE, HE PUT, UH, FORCE ON ONE ANSWER AND THREAT OF FORCE ON ANOTHER ANSWER. THE CORRECT ANSWER IS THROUGH FORCE AND THREAT OF FORCE. HIS MULTIPLE CHOICE, GIVEN I THINK IT WAS, UH, B OR C OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WAS INCORRECT. [00:25:01] IT WAS A TYPO. UM, I DID GET HIS, UH, PAPER BACK AND HE ALREADY ADMITTED THAT IT WAS JUST A TYPO. SO I THINK HE'S GONNA, I THINK THE, THE TWO CORRECT ANSWERS ARE FORCE AND THREAT OF FORCE. OKAY. OH, AND NOT, UH, NOT THE ONE THAT HE SPECIFIED, BECAUSE IN HERE IT SAYS HE WANTS TO LEAVE HIS ANSWER, CORRECT? WELL, HIS ANSWER IS JUST INCORRECT. CORRECT. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY. MM-HMM . BUT I DON'T WANT, THIS IS NOT BAD. DO WE HAVE ONE OTHER PERSON THAT NEEDS TO COME UP, MR. HERBERT? THERE'S TWO OTHER APPELLANTS, SORRY, I'M SORRY. THERE'S TWO OTHER APPELLANTS. SO THIS, UM, JACOB GRIFFITH GRIFFITH IS NOT HERE, BUT SEAN SAUNDERS IS. OKAY. ARE YOU HERE IT COMES, I AGREE WITH MR. CRANE, IT'S CHOICE D'S NOT EVEN AN OPTION. IT'S EITHER B OR C AND OR BOTH, SO. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO MOTION. YEAH. SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR, UH, QUESTION NUMBER NINE THAT WE ACCEPT ANSWERS B OR CS OH, I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. MR. ABER STILL NEEDS TO SPEAK. OH, HE SIGNED UP. OH, OKAY. I'M SORRY. SURE DID. WELL, THAT WAS NOT , I THINK ON THAT QUESTION BECAUSE OF ALL THE WRONG THAT'S IN IT. UM, IT SHOULD JUST BE OMITTED FROM THE TEST. I, OH, JESUS. GOD, I TURNED IT OFF. OKAY. UM, ARE ANY DISCUSSION OR HOLD ON. OKAY. I THINK MAYBE JUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS, TODAY'S MEETING, THE APPEAL, WE SHOULD JUST ACCEPT AND LET THEM WORK OUT, UM, DELETING THE QUESTION. OKAY. SO, UM, I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION THAT FOR QUESTION 99, THAT WE DELETE THIS QUESTION. OH, OKAY. I GUESS THAT'S THE SAME EFFECT AS ACCEPTING THE ANSWERS. NO. OH, THAT'S GONNA BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE CAN ACCEPT THE ANSWERS B AND C OR WE CAN DELETE THE, THE, UH, WHAT, OR WE CAN JUST DELETE THE QUESTION ALTOGETHER, RIGHT? THAT'S ONE OF OUR OPTIONS. THAT'S CORRECT. YOUR OPTIONS ARE TO KEEP THE SAME ANSWER, CHANGE THE CORRECT ANSWER, ALLOW MORE THAN ONE CORRECT ANSWER OR DELETE THE QUESTION. OKAY. SO I SECOND THE MOTION TO DELETE, TO DELETE QUESTION NUMBER 99 FROM THIS TEST. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OKAY. SO THERE'S THE ANSWER TO THAT ONE. TO DELETE QUESTION NUMBER 99 FROM THE TEST. OKAY. OKAY. NEXT ITEM IS ITEM TWO G ON THE AGENDA. CONCERNING QUESTION NUMBER 14, WE DO HAVE ONE PERSON SIGNED UP, UH, MR. FIA. OKAY. SO I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ THE QUESTION REAL QUICK. THAT'S FINE. OKAY. UM, SO QUESTION 14, NOZZLES FOR USE ON HAND LINES MAY BE SOLID FOG OR BROKEN STREAM DESIGN RANGING IN SIZE FROM THREE-FOUR INCH BOOSTER NOZZLE TO A NOZZLE SUITABLE FOR A THREE INCH DIAMETER HOSE LINE, GENERALLY BLANK. UH, GPM IS THE MAX MAXIMUM FLOW FOR A HEADLINE, AND THE ANSWER IS C3 50. WELL, LET ME GO BACK. SO THERE'S FOUR OPTIONS, A TWO 50 B, 300 C, THREE 50, AND D 500, AND THE ANSWER WAS C3 50. OKAY. ACCORDING TO SUSPECT, OH NO, UH, WILLIAM CHE, THE, UH, THE SOURCE MATERIAL SITES THAT THE QUESTIONS TAKEN OUT OUT OF SITES, IT S3 50. ADDITIONALLY, ON PAGE AGE ONE, I GOTTA FIND 1 37 OF, UH, STRATEGIES AND TACTICS, WHICH WAS ALSO ON THE READING LIST. IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS A MASTER STREAM IS CAPABLE OF WATER FLOWS IN EXCESS OF 300 GALLONS A MINUTE, TWO, POWERFUL FOR A HAND LINE 300 SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A CORRECT ANSWER DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT IS LISTED AS A POSSIBLE CORRECT ANSWER ON THE TEST AND ADDITIONAL SOURCE MATERIAL FOR THE STUDY MATERIAL LISTED AS A CORRECT ANSWER. THE, UM, THE REPLY FROM THE, UH, THE, THE TEST WRITER NEVER STATES THAT IT IS NOT A CORRECT ANSWER, IS SIMPLY CITES THE TEST MATERIAL THAT HE DREW HIS QUESTION FROM. CAN I ASK A QUESTION? OKAY. SO ON THE TEST YOU ARE, IT DOES SAY THAT BEFORE THE QUESTION WHICH MATERIALS? YES, MA'AM, IT DOES. SO, BUT YOU'RE GETTING THE, YOUR ANSWER CAME FROM SOME DIFFERENT CAME D FROM A DIFFERENT SECTION, A DIFFERENT SET OF THE STUDY MATERIAL, BUT THERE'S, SO THERE'S, THERE WAS DIFFERENT BOOKS, RIGHT? CORRECT. YES MA'AM. THERE WERE DIFFERENT BOOKS WITH [00:30:01] CONFLICTING ANSWERS IN THE DIFFERENT BOOKS, BUT, UM, BUT ON THE TEST HE DID SAY THAT IT SHOULD BE FROM, UH, PUMPING AN AERIAL APPARATUS DRIVING, YES MA'AM. HE DID SAY THAT, BUT YOUR INFORMATION CAME FROM A DIFFERENT, FROM A DIFFERENT OKAY. PIECE OF SOURCE MATERIAL IN THE BOOK, IN THE STUDY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS TO YOU. UM, NO, IT'S, SO I SAW EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAW ON PAGE 1 37 OF A YES, SIR. BUT, OKAY, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. UH, SO I DON'T HAVE THE, THE MATERIAL THAT, THAT WAS FURNISHED WITH THE TEST AVAILABLE, SO WELL, OKAY, SO WHAT YOU ON ONE PAGE, 1 3 7, THAT'S, THIS WAS FROM WHICH, THIS WAS FROM THE OTHER READING MATERIAL, CORRECT? YES. IS THAT FROM THE PUMPING AND AERIAL OPERATIONS? NO, MA'AM. IT IS NOT FROM PUMPING AND AERIAL OPERATIONS. OKAY. IT'S FROM, UM, I BELIEVE I CAN, I MISQUOTE THE NAME OF THE ACTUAL BOOK EVERY TIME, BUT, UM, STRATEGIC AND TECHNICAL CONSIDERATIONS ON THE FIRE GROUND, IF I COULD, UH, INTERRUPT FOR A MOMENT. SURE. IN THE, UH, CIVIL SERVICE RULES, UM, 10.25, ALL APPEALS MUST BE IN WRITING AND SPECIFY, AND IT LISTS ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS. AND UNDER SUBSECTION C IT SAYS, THE FOLLOWING FACTORS WILL NOT SUPPORT AN APPEAL INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO AROUND SECTION C ONE EVIDENCE THAT OTHER REFERENCE MATERIALS OR SOURCES SUPPORT AN ANSWER, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN THE APPROVED ANSWER. RIGHT. OKAY. SO JUST JUST FOR MY INFORMATION, SO ARE, ARE THE, UH, THE, ARE THE PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE TEST, ARE THEY GIVEN THEY'RE GIVEN A, A TEST WITH QUESTIONS AND THEY'RE GIVEN SOME INFORMATION TO, TO FIND THE ANSWERS IN IT, AND ARE THEY RESTRICTED TO THAT INFORMATION? I, I HAVE TO DEFER TO SOMEONE ELSE WHO KNOWS THE PROCESS BETTER FOR OUR CHIEF HERE OR SOMEBODY. IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT ON THE TEST, AM I CORRECT THAT THEY TELL YOU WHICH, UH, READING MATERIALS CORRECT, CORRECT. YES. THAT, THAT QUESTION CAME FROM NEXT THIS. RIGHT, RIGHT. AND SO THE BEST ANSWER WOULD BE THE ONE COMING OUT OF, BUT THIS PAGE, PAGE 1 37 IS NOT IN THAT BOOK. NO, SIR. PAGE 1 37 IS NOT IN THAT BOOK. IT'S GOOD STUFF, BUT IT'S BUT IT'S NOT IN THE BOOK THAT Y'ALL WERE. YES, SIR. OKAY. RIGHT. OKAY. YEAH, IT'S GOOD STUFF. OKAY. SO IN THAT CASE, UM, YOU COULD SOMETHING DURING THE TERM, UH, THERE'S ONLY ONE. THERE'S ONLY ONE. OKAY. OKAY. SO I'D, UM, GUESS ARE YOU DOING YEAH, I'M, I'M GOOD. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION ONE ORDER. OH, I WAS SAY WE HAVE ANOTHER APP, APPELLANT. OH, THAT'S RIGHT. THE APPELLANT. OKAY. NOT GONNA SPEAK. THERE IS ANOTHER APPELLANT. THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. COOPER. UM, AND I WASN'T ORIGINALLY GONNA SPEAK ON, ON THIS QUESTION, BUT UH, WITH THE DISCUSSION GOING ON NOW, I FELT LIKE I NEEDED TO TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE IS BOTH OF I, BOTH BOOKS OBVIOUSLY HAVE DIFFERENT ANSWERS AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT MS. DELATORRE IS SAYING ABOUT HAVING ALL THESE QUESTIONS COME FROM ONE, UM, ONE BOOK, BUT WITH BOTH OF THEM BEING CORRECT ANSWERS LISTED IN THE QUESTION, I FEEL LIKE AT LEAST BOTH OF THOSE SHOULD BE TAKEN FOR WHAT THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER'S SAYING WHAT CIVIL SERVICE STATES IS THAT YOU CAN'T USE ANY REFERENCE MATERIAL OUTSIDE OF THE REFERENCE MATERIAL GIVEN TO US. SO THE REFERENCE MATERIAL THAT BILLY QUOTED IN HIS APPEAL, AND I QUOTED IN MY APPEAL, BOTH OF 'EM ARE PART OF OUR FIVE BOOKS THAT WE HAD TO STUDY FOR THIS. IT DIDN'T COME OUT OF ANY OTHER REFERENCE MATERIAL OUTSIDE OF WHAT WAS ON THE ACTUAL READING LIST. OKAY. SO, BUT I STILL WANNA CLARIFY THOUGH. I I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT, UM, ON THE TEST, IT SPECIFICALLY STATES THIS TEST OR THIS QUESTION CAME FROM A B, C BOOK OR WHATEVER. RIGHT? SO, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE ONLY THING I PROB I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A LOT OF MATERIALS OUT THERE AND IT, IT, IT, IT IT APPEARS TO BE APPROVED, APPROVED STUDY MATERIAL, RIGHT? RIGHT. IT WAS APPROVED BOTH, BOTH BOOKS THAT WERE CITED, BOTH IN, IN THE APPEAL FROM THE, UM, DRIVER OPERATOR BOOK AND THE STRATEGY AND TECH, UM, TECHNICAL CONSIDERATIONS BOOK. WERE BOTH APPROVED STUDY MATERIAL FOR THE BOOK, FOR THE TEST. WHAT MS. DEL TORI'S SAYING IS THAT QUESTIONS ONE THROUGH 40 WERE COMING OUT OF THE DRIVER OPERATOR BOOK. THESE NUMBERS WERE VERY SIMILAR. AND WHEN YOU'RE READING A DRIVER OPERATOR BOOK THAT HAS, WHAT WAS IT, 700 OR 900 SOMETHING PAGES IN IT, AND THEN ANOTHER BOOK THAT'S GOT 564 PAGES IN IT, AND ONE OF 'EM HAS A BUNCH OF NUMBERS, IT'S EASY TO GET NUMBERS MIXED FROM ONE BOOK TO THE OTHER. SO CROSS CROSS-REFERENCING TWO BOOKS WITH NUMBERS IS VERY SIMPLE, UM, IN THIS TYPE OF TEST. UM, AND WITH BOTH OF 'EM ACTUALLY BEING CORRECT, JUST DEPENDING ON WHICH, WHETHER YOU CROSS-REFERENCED YOUR NINE OR A THOUSAND PAGES OR [00:35:01] NOT. SO, BUT, BUT I GUESS, I GUESS I'M STILL, 'CAUSE THE, IF THE TEST RULES SAY YOU HAVE TO USE THAT, I'M UNDERSTAND THERE'S SO MANY MATERIALS AND I DON'T KNOW HOW Y'ALL KEEP UP WITH ALL THIS AND, AND I COULDN'T, BUT, UM, BUT THE TEST RULES SAY THAT THESE QUES OR NOT RULES, BUT RIGHT, THEY'RE NOT THIS, IT IS WORDED THAT THESE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS ARE COMING OUT OF THIS BOOK. I TEND TO HAVE TO SAY, I I, I, YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA USE THAT BOOK. YEAH. BECAUSE THAT NARROWS IT DOWN WHERE THE, WHERE THE QUESTIONS THAT THE TEST MAKER'S LOOKING FOR IS COMING FROM. UM, AND IT'S, UM, IT'S RECOGNIZED THAT YEAH, YOU DO HAVE OTHER STUDY MATERIAL, BUT THE ANSWERS FOR THESE QUESTIONS ARE COMING OUT OF BOOK A MM-HMM . YEAH. AND IF YOU GUYS KNOW THAT UPFRONT, WELL THEN SHOULD TRY TO STAY IN BOOK A FOR THE TEST. WELL, AND, AND I UNDERSTAND, LIKE YOU SAID, THERE'S NUMBERS ON ALL THE, AND ALL THE BOOKS AND, UM, IT PROBABLY IS HARD TO KEEP UP WITH, BUT WE GOTTA HAVE TO GO WITH THE BEST ANSWER. WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE WAY THE, THE, THE RULES ARE, SIR, CAN WE DO THAT GUYS? YOU SAID THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO STUDY BOOK A, BUT BOOK BOTH BOOK A AND BOOK B ARE ON THE TEST. SO WE, WE STUDIED BOTH BOOKS, RIGHT? RIGHT. WE DIDN'T, LIKE BLAINE SAID WE DIDN'T PULL FROM OUTSIDE INFORMATION, RIGHT? WE PULLED FROM STUDY MATERIAL WE WERE GIVEN. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. I STILL, BUT I GUESS I'M STILL GOING BACK TO THE, IF THE TEST SAYS THESE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS ARE FROM X, Y, Z BOOK, THEN WE HAVE TO GO. I, I JUST FEEL LIKE WE HAVE TO GO WITH THAT, THAT ANSWER FROM THAT BOOK. I AGREE. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IN THE END, IN THE STREET, IN A REAL LIFE SITUATION, WHICH NUMBER DO Y'ALL GO BY? . DAMN. DAMN WHAT THE TEST SAYS, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE BEST IN REAL LIFE? STREET ACTION, . ANYBODY ELSE? OH, UH, OKAY, SO ALL THE SPEAKERS HAVE SPOKEN. UM, GUESS WE MAKE A MOTION. OKAY, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT FOR QUESTION, UH, 14, WE DENY THE APPEAL. AYE, SECOND. THAT MOTION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. SO QUESTION NUMBER 14, ITEM, UH, TWO F, I THINK, UH, THE MO THE, UH, APPEAL IS DENIED. NEXT ONE ITEM ON THE AGENDA, UH, TWO TWO H CONCERNING QUESTION NUMBER 23, 2 H, WE HAVE, UH, TWO PEOPLE SIGN UP TO SPEAK. SO WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO READ THE QUESTION REAL QUICK? I WOULD LOVE YOU TO READ THE QUESTION. OKAY, SO THIS QUESTION NUMBER 23, LARGE DIAMETER HOSE OR LDH IS RELAY SUPPLY HOSE OF BLANK TO SIX INCHES IN DIAMETER, USED TO MOVE LARGE VOLUMES OF WATER QUICKLY WITH A MINIMUM NUMBER OF PUMPS AND PERSONNEL. UH, ANSWERS ARE EITHER A TWO AND A HALF B, THREE, C, THREE AND A HALF, OR D FOUR. ANSWER IS IS C, THREE AND A HALF, CORRECT? SO YOU WANNA SPEAK WE HAVE, UH, MR. UH, KRAUS OR ? YES, IT'S JASON KRAUS. UM, GOOD MORNING. UH, DO Y'ALL HAVE THE REFERENCE MATERIAL, THE COPIES FROM THE DRIVER OPERATOR PAGES 4 27? I DO HAVE 4 24 29, AND 4 35. I HAVE 4 27, 4 29, AND 4 35. MM-HMM . UM, IN MY APPEAL, THE UH, REFERENCE MATERIAL IS THE SAME BOOK, SAME CHAPTER, OBVIOUSLY. UH, CHAPTER 12. UM, THE DEFINITION REQUIRED BLANK TO FOUR TO SIX INCHES. UM, THE TEST MAKER DENIED THE APPEAL REFERENCING THE, UH, DEFINITIONS TAKEN FROM PAGE, UH, 4 35, UM, IN THE SAME BOOK ON THE SAME CHAPTER, ON THE SAME TOPIC ON PAGE, UH, LATER ON IN THE CHAPTER, IT GIVES A DIFFERENT RANGE FOR LARGE DIAMETER VERSUS MEDIUM DIAMETER HOSE TALKS ABOUT FOUR TO FIVE INCHES. DOES NOT INCLUDE THREE AND A HALF INCHES. ALSO IN THE SAME CHAPTER OF THE SAME BOOK. UM, THERE IS NO OTHER REFERENCE TO THREE AND A HALF INCH HOSE IN ANY OF THE PUMP CHARTS, WHICH IS ON PAGE, UH, 4 29. AND THEN ON, UH, CHAPTER EIGHT OF THE SAME BOOK AGAIN, THERE'S ANOTHER PUMP CHART, UM, THAT YOU SEE A STUDY MATERIAL, THERE'S NO THREE AND A HALF INCH HOSE EVEN LISTED. IT STOPS AT THREE INCHES. UM, TEST MAKER DID SAY THAT SIX INCH HOSE WAS NOT LISTED EITHER BECAUSE THREE AND A HALF INCH TO AND SIX INCH HOSES BY THEMSELVES ARE HIGHLY RARE IN THE UNITED STATES IN THE FIRE SERVICE. UM, I KNOW BACK DOING SOME RESEARCH ON MY OWN AFTER, UH, READING THE QUESTION, UM, THEY WERE USED BACK IN THE FORTIES, FIFTIES AND SIXTIES IN SOME OF THE LARGER CITIES, THE SMALLER HOSE, THREE AND A HALF INCH IN IN PARTICULAR. UM, BUT AGAIN, IT'S VERY, VERY, UH, RARE IN THE MODERN FIRE SERVICE TO EVEN HAVE [00:40:01] THREE AND A HALF INCH HOSE ON ANY APPARATUS THAT YOU SEE ON THE STREET TODAY. SO, UH, MY APPEAL IS FORWARD TO DELETE THE QUESTION, I THINK IT'S A POOR QUESTION CHOICE FROM THE CHAPTER BEING THAT THERE'S CONFLICTED INFORMATION FROM THE SAME CHAPTER IN THE SAME TEXT ON THE RANGE OF LARGE DIAMETER HOSES. SO YOU HAVE THE, I THINK WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE 4 27. YES SIR. ON THE RIGHT HAND, RIGHT HAND COLUMN BY MIDWAYS DOWN THE PAGE. YES SIR. IT'S A LITTLE THAT, THAT'S WHERE THE TEST MAKER DREW THE DREW HIS DEFINITION FROM. IT'S ALSO LISTED IN THE GLOSSARY OF THE BOOK IN THE BACK AS A DEFINITION FOR LARGE DIAMETER HOSE. UM, IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT THE QUESTION OF THE TEST AND PAGE 4 27, UM, THERE IS A SEMI CODE AND THAT WAS DELETED AS WELL, UM, FROM THE TEST MAKER'S COPY OF IT. SO, UM, HIS, HIS RESPONSE OF VERBATIM FROM THE TEXTBOOK IS ARGUABLE AT THAT POINT EVEN AS WELL BECAUSE THE PUNCTUATION'S NOT EVEN THE SAME. SO I, I THINK IT'S A POOR QUESTION IN GENERAL, BUT THAT'S JUST, THAT'S MY OPINION OF IT. MY APPEAL. SO WHEN I WAS REVIEWING THIS AND I GOT TO THAT PAGE FOUR, TONY SEVEN, OH, IT IS RIGHT THERE, BLACK AND WHITE . IT IS, IT IS, IT IS BLACK AND WHITE, BUT THEN YOU FLIP OVER NINE PAGES AND IT TALKS ABOUT DIFFERENT TYPES OF, OF LARGE DIAMETER HOSE IN DIFFERENT RANGES. SO YEAH, THAT, THAT'S UNFORTUNATE. SO THERE, WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? UH, OKAY, THERE'S ANOTHER, UM, ANOTHER, ANOTHER APPELLANT. MR. UM, BRIA. BRIA, UM, I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK. OKAY. NO. OKAY. SPEAKING. OKAY, MR. FROST SAID EVERYTHING I, I HAVE TO SAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WELL, LIKE YOU SAID, I, WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS, I SAW THE DEFINITION, BUT UM, I DO SEE WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT THE LARGE DIAMETER HOSE. AGAIN, THAT'S FOUR TO FOUR OR FIVE INCHES, SO THERE'S SOME CONTRADICTION IN THE SAME BOOK. OKAY. UM, ACCEPT, I THINK ACCEPT MORE ANSWERS OR THE QUESTION, THROWING IT OUT. UH, OKAY, LEMME SEE. OKAY, SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR, UM, QUESTION NUMBER 23 THAT WE THROW OUT THE, THROUGHOUT THIS QUESTION. I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO ITEM TWO H CONCERNING NUMBER QUESTION 23. THE, UM, DECISION HAS BEEN MADE TO, UH, WITHDRAW THAT QUESTION FROM THE TEST. I'D STILL LIKE TO KNOW WHAT Y'ALL DO IN THE REAL WORLD OUT THERE WHEN, WHEN IT HITS A FAN. . ALRIGHT, SO ITEM UH, TWO I ON THE AGENDA CONCERNING QUESTION NUMBER 52. OKAY, SO I'M GONNA READ THAT QUESTION. UM, YOUR BRAIN HAS LIMITED A LIMITED CAPACITY TO CAPTURE AND COMPREHEND DATA WHEN YOUR BRAIN IS TAKING IN FAST MOVING AND RAPIDLY CHANGING CUES. IT CAN STALL, FIGURATIVELY SPEAKING AS IT TRIES TO MAKE SENSE OF A SITUATION, OR IT CAN DROP CUES AS NEW STIMULI COME IN BEFORE IT'S FULLY MADE SENSE OF THE OLD STIMULI. IT CAPTURED JUST SECONDS PREVIOUSLY. THIS MAY BLANK. UM, IT CAN BE EITHER A, GIVE YOU THE SENSE, UH, THAT YOU ARE LOSING FOCUS B CAUSE YOU TO FEEL HYPER-FOCUSED, C MENTALLY PARALYZE YOU OR D THIS MAY CAUSE ALL THE ABOVE. THE TEST MAKER SAYS THE ANSWER IS A. SO WE HAVE ONE SPEAKER, MR. , I PROMISE THIS IS MY LAST ONE. . WAIT, NO, I THINK I HAVE ONE, ONE, NO. YEAH. ONE MORE. . UM, I, MY APPEAL IS TO CHANGE THE ANSWER TO D OR THROUGHOUT THE QUESTION ALTOGETHER DUE TO THE FACT THAT SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THIS PARTICULAR BOOK, NOT A DIFFERENT BOOK, THIS ONE, UM, IT CITES SEVERAL INSTANCES OF QUOTE UNQUOTE NARROWING OF FIELD OF VISION. UM, ON PAGE 42. UM, IT COMPARES IT TO WHEN INFORMATION IS COMING IN IN AND HE GOES ON AND STATES THAT, UM, PAGE 1 28, DR. GASAWAY FURTHER STATES THAT THE SAME EVENTS CAN HAPPEN WHEN YOUR BRAIN IS USING ALL OF ITS CAPACITY TO PROCESS INFORMATION ABOUT THE EMERGENCY SCENE. YOUR HOURGLASS ICON POPS UP IN YOUR BRAIN AND YOUR BRAIN STOPS PROCESSING NEW INFORMATION BECAUSE IT HAS REACHED ITS APPROPRIATE CAPACITY. WHEN THIS HAPPENS, NEW INFORMATION MAY NOT GET IN, LITERALLY MAY NOT GET IN, LITERALLY YOUR EYES MAY NOT SEE VISUAL CUES AND CLUES. YOUR EARS MAY [00:45:01] NOT HEAR AUDIBLE CLUES AND CUES INCLUDING IMPORTANT RADIO MESSAGES IN THE MOST LITERAL SENSE, YOUR EARS, YOUR EYES WILL SEE SO LONG AS YOUR EYELIDS ARE NOT SHUT AND YOUR EARS WILL HEAR SO LONG AS YOU DON'T CLO HAVE THEM CLOSED OR EARPLUGS IN. BUT YOUR BRAIN, NOT BRAIN, BRAIN MAY NOT PROCESS THE VISUAL INFORMATION THAT THAT STATEMENT WOULD INCLUDE. I APOLOGIZE FOR HAVING TO FLIP BACK AND FORTH THE, UH, ANSWER OF MENTALLY PARALYZE YOU. YOUR BRAIN NO LONGER PROCESSES INFORMATION. I THINK THAT'S A, THAT'S A REASONABLE CONCLUSION TO, TO GO TO AND AUDIO AUDIBLE CLUES BECAUSE IT'S TOO BUSY TRYING TO PROCESS INFORMATION. ON PAGE 1 64, DR. GASAWAY STATES ANOTHER ATTENTION MANAGEMENT. ANOTHER WAY ATTENTION MANAGEMENT CAN SUFFER IS BY THE NARROWING OF YOUR ATTENTION SPAN. THIS CONCEPT IS OFTEN TAUGHT IN BASIC EMERGENCY RESPONDER TRAINING AS TUNNEL VISION, UM, TUNNEL VISION AND HYPERFOCUS. HE GOES ON SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE, THE, UH, THE TEXT TO CITE THINGS SUCH AS, UH, I APOLOGIZE. UH, PAGE 1 64 ALSO SAYS, THE RESPONDER CAN ALSO SUFFER FROM TASK FIXATION BECOMING FIXATED ON THE PERFORMANCE OF A SINGLE TASK IN THE EMERGENCY SCENE CAN CAUSE THE RESPONDER TO BECOME OBVIOUS TO OTHER OBLIVIOUS, I'M SORRY, TO OTHER EVENTS. UM, HE CITES SEVERAL TIMES OF NARROWING A FOCUS OR HYPER, UM, HYPER, UH, HYPERVIGILANCE AND OTHER THINGS. UM, THE, THE QUESTION EITHER D SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO STAND OR SHOULD BE ALLOWED AS A CORRECT ANSWER BECAUSE IT COULD BE ALL OF THOSE FURTHER. ONE COULD COULD INCLUDE, UM, IN MY REPLY OR IN MY REBUT, I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL GET THE, THE RESPONSES BACK. UM, HE ACTUALLY SAYS, UM, BECAUSE HOWEVER IT IS VERY CLOSE DECISION FOR ME IN THE DECISION THAT IS REQUIRED, REQUIRED, REQUIRED A LOT OF SCRUTINY. I APOLOGIZE, I CAN'T SPEAK. IT'S OKAY TODAY. UM, HE CLEARLY STATES THAT THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION TO SUPPORT A POSSIBLE OTHER ANSWER IN THERE. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE? NO, HE WAS THE OLD, HE WAS ONLY ONE. OKAY. THIS IS, DO WE WANNA DO THAT? JUST THE WAY HE, YEAH, BUT NO, WE GOTTA MAKE A DECISION CHANGE OR, SO I ALMOST THINK I ALMOST THROW OUT BECAUSE IT'S VERY CONFUSING. THERE'S LOT OF DIFFERENT ANSWERS IN THIS. OKAY. YEAH. ALRIGHT. UM, WHAT ELSE? THIS, I DIDN'T KNOW WAS AN OPTION. OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, I'D LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION, UM, ON, ON QUESTION NUMBER 52 THAT WE THROW OUT THIS TEST. I SECOND, I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO QUESTION 52 HAS BEEN, UM, HAS BEEN VOTED ON TO REMOVE FROM THE TEST. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS, UH, ITEM NUMBER TWO J CONCERNING QUESTION NUMBER 65 ON THE TEST. OKAY, I'LL READ THAT TWO QUESTION TWO, TWO PEOPLE SIGNED UP. OKAY. THE QUESTION, UH, IS UNDER THE INCIDENT COMMAND SYSTEM, A COMMAND STAFF CAN BE UTILIZED TO ASSIST COMMAND IN PERFORMING SOME BASIC FUNCTIONS. EACH POSITION CAN BE CRITICAL DEPENDING UPON THE TYPE OF INCIDENT AND DEMANDS ON THE ICS TIME. WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING IS NOT A COMMAND STAFF POSITION? A INTELLIGENCE SLASH INVESTIGATIONS OFFICER B, LOGISTICS OFFICER, C, SAFETY OFFICER AND D, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER. AND THE TEST MAKER SAYS ANSWER IS B [00:50:01] LOGISTICS OFFICER. YOU HAVE TWO PEOPLE, MR. PHILLIPS. OKAY, THIS IS, UH, HAYDEN PHILLIPS. HERE WE HAVE, UH, THE QUESTION STATES, WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING WAS NOT A COMMAND STAFF POSITION? TEXT CLEARLY STATES THAT LOGISTICS OFFICER IS NOT A COMMAND IS A GENERAL STAFF AND NOT, NOT A COMMAND STAFF. ON PAGE 63, THE TEXT STATES INTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATIONS AT THE DISCRETION OF THE IC COULD BE ASSIGNED TO A GENERAL STAFF POSITION. GENERAL STAFF IS NOT COMMAND STAFF. AND THIS KINDA LEADS TO A SITUATIONAL TYPE SITUATION OF WHAT, WHERE IT FALLS NOWHERE IN THE QUESTION DOES IT STATE THE SITUATION. SO I BELIEVE THAT EITHER A OR B WOULD BE A CORRECT ANSWER. SO IS PAGE 63 IN THE APPROVED MATERIAL? YES, SIR. TAKING THE, FOR TAKING THE TEST? YES. OKAY. YEAH, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T GET PAGE 50. OKAY. THERE ONE MORE THAT NEEDS TO, YEAH. UM, , OH, WILLIAM FRIGE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO SAY MY NAME AGAIN. UM, THE, IT SAYS THAT IT MAY BE A COMMAND OR A COMMAND POSITION, BUT IT ALSO STATES SEVERAL TIMES THAT IT CAN BE PLACED UNDER GENERAL STAFF, SPECIFICALLY UNDER THE OPERATIONS DIVISION. THE QUESTION SAYS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF WHICH ONE IS NOT, WHICH ONE MAY, MAY AND SEMICOLON. WELL, WE, UM, I DON'T KNOW. TEST MAKER SAID IT WAS TAKEN VERBATIM FROM PAGE 59. SO, YOU KNOW, WE COULD SAY THAT'S THE BEST ANSWER. BUT I ALSO SEE WHERE YOU'RE SAYING, UM, YOU SAID THROUGHOUT THE MATERIALS IT SAID MAY, I DON'T KNOW. SO IN ONE, IN ONE PLACE IT SAYS THAT THIS, UH, LOGISTICS, UH, IS A FUNCTION OF GENERAL, GENERAL COMMAND. AND THE QUESTION IS, UM, REFERRING TO, TO COMMAND SYSTEM, NOT NOT A GENERAL STAFF. 'CAUSE IT SAYS THAT BECAUSE IT SAYS IT'S, IT'S, IT'S INCLUDED IN ONE IMPLIES THAT IT, IT IT'S EX EXCLUDED IN THE OTHER. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD THINK. SO IT SAYS THAT IT'S, UH, INCLUDED UNDER, UNDER GENERAL STAFF IMPLIES THAT IT'S EXCLUDED UNDER COMMAND SYSTEM AND A FAIR ASSESSMENT. GUESS I'M CONFUSED. SEMICOLONS MAY SHALL. UM, UM, I THINK THIS IS, UM, I THINK, UM, SO YOU'RE TALKING LIKE MAYBE, UM, POSSIBLE TWO ANSWERS? YEP. OKAY. SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR QUESTION 65 TO ACCEPT A OR B AS AN ANSWER. I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO QUESTION NUMBER 65. THE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE TO ACCEPT ANSWERS A OR B AS CORRECT. OKAY. THAT, THAT CONCLUDES THAT PART OF THE AGENDA. REVIEWING THE, THE APPEALS. WE'LL NOW RECESS TO REGRADE THE TEST. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. WE'RE GONNA CALL THIS MEETING BACK TO ORDER. THE REGRADING HAS BEEN COMPLETED AND WE'RE GOING TO READ THE, THE, THE FINAL SCORES. FIRST ONE WILL BE FOR THE, UH, IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER FOR THE BATTALION CHIEF DIVISION CHIEF, AND, UH, THE NEW SCORES ARE, UH, MR. RIOS FINAL SCORE OF 1 0 5. MR. JAMES MILLER, NINE, MR. [00:55:01] IC 98, MR. SCO 97, AARON SMITH, 85, AND JAMES WEAVER 80. DO THE NEXT ONE. MM-HMM . AND THE SCORES FOR FIRE LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONAL EXAM, CHRISTOPHER CRANE, 99.9. ROBERT ABER, 97.9. JOSEPH ABER, 89.8. JACOB GRIFFITH, 89.8. SEAN SAUNDERS, 84.8. JASON GARZA, 83.7. JOSHUA MATLOCK, 81.7. AND GEORGE LATO 80.7 FOR THE EQUIPMENT OPERATOR. FINAL SCORES ARE BLAINE COOPER, 100.9, JASON KRAUSS, 93.7, HAYDEN PHILLIPS 93.7. WILLIAM FERGI, 91.8. RYAN JONES, 91.7, GILBERT, JUNE 89.7. JASON COCHRAN, 87.6. JEFFREY SMITH, 86.6. CHLOE MATULA, 85.7. AARON MCNEIL, 83.6. CARLOS ANDERSON, 79.4. AND ZACHARY COX, 78.5. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE CERTIFY THE BATTALION CHIEF DIVISION, CHIEF FIRE LIEUTENANT AND FIRE EQUIPMENT OPERATOR SLASH FIRE INSPECTOR ELIGIBILITY LIST. I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. THE UH, CERTIFICATION HAS PASSED. OKAY, NUMBER THREE, I MOVE THAT WE ADJOURN THIS MEETING. I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.